Basic income

find a flaw

Do you have a picture showing what happens to those who are not freeloading scum?

fpbp

fixed

>find a flaw
Redistribution of income from productive people to hand it over to non-productive people

Who's gonna pay for it?
>the rich
What if they don't?

tpbp

this is fine. Some people can't work productive jobs but can still be productive in society and contribute to their family and community. We a basic income they can contribute a lot more to society than without. There is plenty of wealth to go around, don't believe the lie that there is not.

take it from them, by force

...

What if they leave? Or what if you take all of there money. And now they have nothing left to give?

Wouldn't it cost in the trillions of dollars?

Every time I see people discuss basic income no one ever seems concerned about inflation. Wouldn't the market react to having so many individuals with greater purchasing power by increasing real prices? Why or why not?

>find a flaw
State of the american finance. How much UBI could america afford? $500 month?

>take it from them by force
hmmm that sounds familiar...

perfect

>Take money away from people by raising taxes
>Give it all back through basic income
>?????????
Why not just lower taxes as a way to give people more money? Makes no sense.

You can shrink "self improve" as well, considering that you've eliminated one of the most important drives that motivate it.

...

nobody really truly knows how inflation works

t. economist

who pays for it? if someone is able to make the math (incredible so far nobody has even bothered in a realistic and detailed way) and it works out I'm all for it

If people need more money then why don't we just print more and give it all away? It's not like money needs to have some kind of resource backing it, eh?

Money represents scarce resources that have alternative uses. Working to make money to live is not a waste of time, it's an effecient use of society's resources.

>being subhuman

You can do everything on the right without working.

When no one works, the economy collapses.

...

not happening, commiecucks
there will just be increasing class differentiation, followed by the final death of the middle class, and then massive depopulation

True enough. But that's not a conclusive argument for basic income. Shouldn't we attempt to at least make some models of the economic consequences of such a system before we start trying to push it through politically?

Look, basic income sounds weird to me, but if someone can prove its viability I'd be all on board. As it stands, it seems like people are so excited by the prospect of getting paid to simply exist that they aren't asking any of the necessary questions required to figure out whether or not this is a good idea.

I'm a NEET and all I think about it food, sex and sleeping.

>get paid enough to enjoy doing nothing

What would be the point of self improving?

The people on welfare are already the examples of this. They don't improve. They don't do any of those things.

came here to post this

/thread

why are there no vices like drugs and alcohol in there

I may regret asking, but why does the wimmin thing look like a big yellow cock?

from an economic perspective, a price is a measure for a good's scarcity. Some things will always stay scarce, no matter how much nominal currency you have - you won't get a flat on 5th Avenue because of basic income. but, the plausible case can be made that the economy won't collapse with basic income.
Although, many fiscal/monetary stimuli cease to work once they become anticipated ...

Hedonism is not the answer. Even Plato knew that shit.

cause basic income covers nothing but the basics, you get food and shelter, you want more? then fucking work for it

also the majority of people will lose their minds if they sit at home all day doing nothing, it takes a rare case of autism to become a neet

MUH DIK NIGGUH

>Everyone will get a gree apple

>Will the niggers get one too?

>Yes

>Then I'm voting no

Every time

Because then a government bureaucrat can't take a share of that money he took from you before giving a smaller part back to you.

See people on welfare and what their hobbies are.

Now imagine that was given to everyone, but with more.

Basic income isn't some sort of purchase power increasing measure. It's somewhat more complicated than that.

Basic income is supposed to REPLACE existing welfare programs. As it is, theory goes that healthcare and community housing enjoy very little pressure because "the gubbermin gonna pay for it". When the money is managed by its recipients instead, two things can happen:

A - demand for healthcare lowers because idiots blow their money on whateverthefuck, resulting in cheaper healthcare overall/price gouging (which can be regulated since it's no longer a state vs healthcare situation but a people vs healthcare situation)

B - The demand for healthcare becomes competitive between local hospitals because pricepoint becomes contentious with similar demand levels

Neither of these things result in inflation, and by extension neither things will cause inflation in other sectors either.

...in theory.

All I'm willing to believe at this point is that nine times out of ten, the best way to do something is to have well meaning individuals put in charge of doing something to the exact opposite effect. The question is whether I can make a quick buck off of all this.

Take what is fair and proportional. a maximum allowed income before 100% is donated or taxed. donated in the sense of reinvested into the economy and infrastructure, not funneled into a dodgy 'charity' foundation. otherwise taxed. When they have nothing left to give, they themselves would be entitled to a basic income, and we would all be equal

There absolutley would be some inflation, but it's hard to judge it's effect.

Here's a bigger litmus test: Try to ask supporters what a basic incom level should be and how they came about that number.

You will frequently get full on blatantly unsustanaible communist failure answers.

For example, if you link increases the payments to the inflation rate, you're guaranteed to cause continuous inflation.

If you make payments based on what a "living wage" should be based on cost of living, that cost of living is guaranteed to rise.

>I go to work for fulfillment of esoteric, self-improvement reasons, not because I need money like everyone else.

Are you fucking serious?

if you give people money for free. theres no incentives to work at all. believe it or not theres ample amount of people out there that will just live off the the basic income and not motivated to work.

I was gonna post this.

Don't go too far down that path user.

Read some Dostoevsky

no.

But prices would go up because hiring people becomes more expensive and everyone has to pay more tax to cover the cost of people who don't feel like working.

It will therefore cost a lot more to make everything and the country's currency will become less valuable as a result, making imports equally more expensive.

This is absolutely true

t. NEET masterrace

The flaw is it leaves you 100% dependent on the (((people))) giving you your basic income. This is a very fast way to find yourself enslaved, in one way or another. The only free man is a self-sufficient one.

>get money for free
>sit around on ass, buy drugs and food, do nothing

Not sure where the motivation to work fits in there. Humans work so they can relax.

>>I go to work for fulfillment of esoteric, self-improvement reasons, not because I need money like everyone else.

that is literally the only reason i would ever work. I refuse to be a wage slave and I leech of the system as much as I can. I don't give a fuck either, come at me

No thank you, I don't want to wade through snakes to reach your sorry ass.

Germabro got it

They'll either leave before you get to them, or use their soldiers to kill you.

You don't stand a chance.

>Literally me

Economist still in College here

Basic income has as many pro's as it has contra's.
There's so much discussion going about this I just want to test it.

If it fails just repeal it.

If you're happy to do that, then that's fine. But society as a whole is better off without you, which is the whole point of these kinds of discussions.

There are zero pro's

The flaw being: you cant make an entire logical argument with a dumbass infographic.

>facebook productive
>amazon productive
>tesla productive
>federal government productive
>ebay productive
>middlemen productive
>stock market (not vc investments) productive

Your definition of productive is skewed by the false notion that scamming money is productive.

>be animal thing for millions of years
>at least 50% of your life, your struggle is around food
>whole braino is made to solve that problem, geared towards it constantly
>be hummin just for a bunch of thousand years with agriculture (still food in mind)
>be hummin for 100 years in cities
>think that 100 years, compared to millions of years means you can change on the fly and turn into a cat, or in this case, into an animal that knows what to do when there is abundance

kek

Repealing it would be more difficult than passing it. People get pissed when you take away their things. You'd probably be looking at civil unrest in the wake of its removal at the very least, if not open insurrection.

So you expect to leach of other people and give nothing in return? See how that works out when theres no electricity, no water and no heat. You are fucked kiddo.

>still in college
i.e. doesn't have a job and doesn't pay taxes and hasn't lived outside of a daycare center for more than a month of his life.

Yeah nobody wants to vote against "santa clause" and it becomes real easy to villify people who would.

>theres no incentives to work at all
what kind of a cuck you must be
>no ambitions
>only works because he has to

sad thing is when tyrone blows his check on the newest jordans he will demand the gov also pay for his healthcare because he doesn't get enough exercise since he spent all his money on shoes that he will never wear outside.

Before basic income
>self improvement to get more money
>help community to raise wealth of investments
>meet people to make connections for more wealth opportunities
>enjoyment because I have money to pay for things

After basic income
>Gibs me dat I deserves it fo existin'
>yeah bitch git on dis dick
>so what you knocked up ain't my problem let some rich fuck pay for it
>learnin' sux I gots all I needz already fan
>fix the community? Nah fuck that I gots mine

no, they're not. I raise a family, that i took in and devoted myself too (i'm an autist IRL, so big accomplishment) and I'm an extremely good sportsman at the club I am a member of. I study history, philosophy, spirituality and the occult. I am ready to be productive in these areas, when a position arises in society for me to use my talents. I refuse to waste my talent doing something that I do not enjoy simply for monetary gain. I already receive money for doing 'nothing' while I study what I'm interested in and pursue my passions. This income is enough for me to live and get by, I'm content with it. You could not pay me enough money to be a robot and work an ordinary job.

Have you ever been neet?
That shit is boring as fuck and after a month you want to work

I don't want to pay for losers to sit on their asses all day.

Fuck you

I do give in return, but not in the form of manual labor. I contribute to those around me and to the fields that I dedicate myself to

Every (micro)experiment (micro because it happened in 1 village or city) proved that with an UBI more people were starting business and became self-employed

productive people would have extra cash, don't see the problem with it
>don't work = basic income
>work = basic income* + wages
>*adjusted

Such as?

experiments proved this

>find a flaw
it's shit.

you get rewarded for doing nothing.

Why should government money that could be used to pay for cancer treatment for children etc be used to pay for your living standards if you're not providing anything that anyone wants at the moment?

I don't mind people doing whatever they want with their life and trying to avoid boring work, but I don't know why anyone thinks other people should have to pay them so they can live that way.

there are no indepentend altruistics motivations. Altruism is just a byproduct of egoistic actions. In a socialist state, the motivtions to be egoistic are negated, and thereby the chance of altruistic behavior. Capitalism enforces egoistic behavior, but thereby also enforces altruism (work for/with others etc.). Socialism/ basic income inevitably destroys the society, because people are not dependent on oneanother. The paradox is= Capitalism is focused on egoism, but tightens the social structur. Socialism is focused on the social structure, but enforces egoism

this

Left-tards think people on the right are not for welfare.

We want basic income, we want to help the dregs. We just want to simplify the system.

/thread

>Large group of people become slaves dependent on government handouts.
>Nothing stopping corporations to fully abuse this system by for example lowering wages.

Okay, my question is: Where does the money for basic income come from? Who is paying the taxes to support the free money? And will there be enough people paying taxes to support LITERALLY EVERYONE FUCKING ELSE?

Replacing all welfare programs with a standard deductable would be many times more effective than the current welfare state could ever dream to be and would cost tax payers a minute fraction of what they pay now

>Have a masters degree in mechanical engineering
>Already make a decent income

Does basic income work for someone like me, or will it increase the price of goods and services decreasing my spending power?

I raise 2 children, help to run a house hold, lead my sports team to victory and motivate them to improve their game, maintain friendships with others that appreciate my insight and write beautiful music that I'll one day release to the world. I cultivate myself and try to work around my autistic handicaps in the hope that one day I will be of more use than I currently am. I don't just sit on my ass and do nothing

We can have basic income when man prices he can handle indulgence

>help community unchanged

dude... you seem to have a concept of how the world works, yet you have waaaay to much faith in people.

This

>economist

No, my friend. As someone also studying economics, you're nothing more than an economics student.

Motivation is lost in the second. The central planified economies went to shit because the lack of motivation of the individuals. On the other hand, if you want a society of working robots just let the chinese rice'd your countries.

>Autistic man raises his wifes sons: the post

Socialism doesnt work desu.

It would be nice if we all could get serious money to chillax but whos money?.

See venezuela.

I am not for any scheme that takes away selective pressure for individuals to become competent to TAKE support from the universe rather than being GIVEN it.

This makes us all weak and turns us into yeast growing in a jar doomed to collapse when the sugar runs out.

We could do it by IQ. If your IQ>90, you get a standard deductable. If your IQ

>Microexperiment
>1 Village

Who would have guessed that a small homogenic white ( and mostly older ) community which for sure has already a certain working moral wont be lazy.

And now imagine this with the big cities and all the foreign scum.

The flaw is history. The Soviet Union became addicted to slave labor because too many people figured out that if they don't go to work they still get a paycheck.
Hence the mad dash to find political dissenters. It wasn't just about controlling minds and information, they NEEDED people in the gulag or else nothing would get done.

Basic income requires a slave class. Maybe machines could fill that role, but the way our infrastructure is set up right now, we're no where near ready.

I do my best

IQ is imperfect and would lose meaning within a generation or two as it would be re-worked to measure likelihood to succeed in the new communistic world.