Are there any likable characters on this show?

Are there any likable characters on this show?

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Why is the all-the-characters-are-unlikeable trope so prevalent these days? Is it because of Seinfeld?

Shows like Seinfeld and Always Sunny work because all the characters are sociopaths and there are literally zero serious moments. There's not one heartfelt or serious moment in either show. It doesn't work when Bojack presents itself so seriously and brutally.

No, but that’s the “””beauty””” of it.

every character in bojack is an asshole

mr. peanutbutter is a good boy yes he is yes he is

The deer girl that Bojack was friends with. Also the guy that died of cancer after Bojack screwed him over. And how about Kelsey Jannings?

Weren't those characters likeable?

BoJack (Will Arnett's performance is really funny and he changes for the better in season 4)
Mr. Peanutbutter (A geuinely nice person who just doesn't see the big picture most of the time)
Princess Carolyn up until abortion episode
Judah for being the best secretary ever
Mr Cuddlywhiskers
Meow Meow Fuzzyface
Hollyhock
Mouse boyfriend, I forget his name but i'm still hoping he'll forgive P. Carolyn

If you notice, almost every character I listed is an animal

Everybody wants to be "deep" and thoughtful in addition to being funny and free-for-all, and sometimes it works great, but a lot of the time it works like shit. Bojack is somewhere in-between, it has some great moments of clarity, but a lot of the time it's just a piece of shit being shitty and you can only accept so much shit.

nope, cancer guy died an asshole who wrote a revenge book calling everyone out and wanted it published after his death proving he is the worst thing bojack could become

>Judah for being the best secretary ever
Hope he comes back next season after Carolyn gets tired of her shitty new assistant.

What about the other two characters I listed?

the problem with becoming a better person is that if you have always been a piece of shit and you only know how to be a piece of shit and you only know other people who are pieces of shit then how the fuck are you suppossed to do better?
but thats exactly dianes story

Are you calling Mr. Peanutbutter a piece of shit?

He pretty much is when you realize the only thing he values is people having some amount of affection for him no matter why they do.

i guess the deer girl was ok but that was kind of the point, showing how happy bojack was around normal people living a simple life like in the show
the filmaker isnt likable at all

a lot of people talk about bokack being stuck back in time and wanting to relieve his time in the show but its pretty obvious he is so obsessed with it because it shows him being part of a happy functional family and thats what he really wanted

>when you realise he is just like an actual labrador.

yes he is
he is needy to the point of having 2 (soon to be 3) ex wives because nobody cant stand being around him for too long and bojack is right about him

Sebastien St. Claire

Hollyhock is best girl.

The blowfly who helps him fix the lake house is best boy.

best girl is dead girl

No, all of them are supposed to be horrible people trying to be better persons, and Diane, who has no hope of change.

I like him because he's cute

pc

Mr. Peanutbutter and Ralph Stilton. That's pretty much it.

No joke?

Todd.

His worst crime is being naive.

Not really, but it's realistic, just as it is realistic to throw an tomato at the creator for making this shit.

All of them.

I honestly like all of them

>"Why don't you like me?!"

Her? Nah fuck her shit, she had it coming.

There are highly fuckable characters (PC, HMMGRZHFM)...but that's the best you'll get.

Anthro are the only good/hot characters on this show.

I barely know ya bruh.

Characters don't have to be good to be likable.

Mr. PB isn't just stupid, he pretty much entirely lacks any real empathy. He's mostly pretty nice because he wants everyone to like him so it's not a big deal, but he walks over anyone's feelings without really thinking at all. Even when called out on it he doesn't understand and only changes how he acts so people like him, not out of any understanding or concern for their feelings. It's not a huge flaw, again mostly because he wants to be liked so much, but he's definitely not a great guy.

I like Todd, but I realize not everybody likes Todd. I really liked the owl too, the whole amnesia plus "who?" gag never got old for me.

Wonda needs to come back in a point of Bojack's life when he's doing well.

>If you notice, almost every character I listed is an animal
It just happens that the writers focused on making most of the cast animals, and that tends to result in most interesting characters being part of that subset.

It's Hollywood so no.

Probably one of the most despicable, narcissistic characters in the show. Coincidentally also one of the hottest.

Wanda's glorious voice made any flaw in her character seem unimportant.

The way she made PB her bitch was super sexy.

>can't enjoy a story unless the characters are approachable and friendly
>don't understand that to be charismatic you don't have to be nice
What is this type of people called?

He doesn't seem that dumb in his most serious moments like talking to Bojack on the Hollywoo Stars and Celebrities What Do They Know Do They Know Things Let's Find Out, or when he's talking to Diane

The tragedy here is that if Bojack just let go of the past, he'd be able to make that a possibility for himself. It's only now at the end of season 4 where that MIGHT be a likely option. Knowing this show however, it's very unlikely. I wish it to happen though, everyone deserves some kind of redemption.

A character don't need to be liked, it needs to understood. A story is about presenting a situation, not a outcome.

Who's the least likable character on the show?

Of the main cast? Probably Diane.

It's not Hollywood, actually.
It's Hollywoo

Shut up Ryan Seacrest-type

It's not that he's dumb, it's that the way he acts around others is designed to emotionally validate him. What stops him from being a complete asshole is that he goes about this by trying to please other people so their affection will get him that validation. He'd make an abysmally shitty parent.

Todd. He's entertaining to watch, but when you get down to basics he's an enormous and demanding mooch.

I thought Holly was cute...

Dude cancer guy wrote a bad love story novel, not a revenge book.

Season 4 was amazing when it came to showing that despite previous seasons where everything bad was atribuited to some of Bojack´s misdeeds, we are shown that his friends are kind of bad in their own way. I mean, yes Bojack is not perfect and he does shitty things but he is trapped in the idea that he is the reason of everything wrong, like a disease, now for the first time we see all this characters with no Bocjak in their lifes and we get to see just how fucked or miserable they are to some extent. And the revelation that he has a sister and some sort of family bond that is not messed up give a brief light of hope to his character.
season 5 cant come soon enough

i find diane and princess carolyn to be pretty relatable

Fuck no. I'd agree with that if we only had season 1 and 2, but after that he got increasingly more insufferable. The peak moment was him getting angry at Bojack for sleeping with Emily, despite the fact he had no serious feelings about her. Also his lack of at least trying to patch things up with Bojack despite all the things Bojack did for him was extra shitty.

>What did he do?
Allowed him to stay at his place rent free.
Allowed him to hold a party for a Mexican drug lord, effectively saving his life.
Saved him from a brainwashing Improv cult.
Let Todd use his house as a startup headquarters for his can company.

Bojack was definitely an ass to Todd on multiple occasions, but he's also done enough that Todd really shouldn't be quite as self righteous as he is towards him.

Also Todd left a bunch of people in the woods with rabies, which is actually a pretty horrifying disease in the later stages. I used to like Todd, and still do to some extent, he just isn't the best character when things need to get dramatic.

PC had a hard life.

Diane. Thinks her view is the only valid one.

Todd. They had one episode about how he's magical and selfless and shit, because his voice actor produces the show, but the rest of the time he's totally self-absorbed.

Princess Caroline and Todd are pretty good people I think. Flawed, yea, but less overtly fucked up than the rest of the cast.

But if it's "likeability" we're talking about then most of the main cast including Bojack are "likeable", whatever that means. Bojack is frequently a complete asshole but he's fairly intelligent, charming, and is making sincere efforts to change himself even though he doesn't really know how to. It's hard to hate him even when he does shitty things like fuck up Todd's rock opera or toss the baby out the window because we as an audience see all the moments where he hates himself for it afterwards and knows he was in the wrong and we see his fucked up childhood so we know that he's genuinely fucked up and not just some sort of self-satisfied bully or something.

Todd was pissed about sleeping with Emily not because of his own feelings for her but for a multitude of reasons.

1. Bojack didn't know Todd was asexual, so fucking Emily shows that Bojack didn't care if he was fucking Todd's girlfriend and thus didn't give two shits about Todd.

2. Bojack lied to his face about it, repeatedly

3. Todd has seen all the shit Bojack has done with women over the six years he lived in Bojack's house, can you blame him for not wanting Emily to go through with that since he sees Emily as a person and not as a two dollar bar floozy?

>1
They were never dating, so they weren't a couple
>2
Todd never directly asked did he?
>3
Emily was a consenting adult, it was her choice.

Does this show ever stop being a more miserable Family Guy?

>literally zero serious moments. There's not one heartfelt or serious moment in either show
youtube.com/watch?v=ba8-FtywEg8

I really can't stand the way Bojack tries to have both 'we're wacky and irrelevant' and 'this is a super serious drama'. It makes the show come off as tonally schizophrenic and makes both the humor and the drama worse.

Instead of doing something like Moral Orel where you have the show undergo a transformation from irreverent fun to somber drama that helps frame both of the irreconcilable aspects in their respective places which heightens the effectiveness of both by their stark contrast the creators of BH let both sides jostle each other for airtime.In Moral Orel the shift in tone adds to the narrative structure of the story in a way that makes the slide from comedy to drama seem like a mask is being peeled away to reveal what ugliness was lurking beneath the wholesome surface which fits into the shows theme. In Bojack the shift in tone is like a teeter-totter constantly going back in forth. It feels as if the creators are hedging their bets so that if their drama doesn't land they can say "oh its just a comedy you shouldn't take it so seriously", while simultaneously allowing themselves the possibility of taking credit for its 'genius' and 'elevating the medium' if it does.

>1
Bojack didn't know that, and he knew Todd liked her. It's not rocket science.

>2
What is lie by omission.

>3
Sure was. One she regretted instantly. People get made at drug dealers for selling drugs to their friends/family, why wouldn't Todd be mad at Bojack for making her feel bad?

This. Also, Mr. Peannutbutter.

Vincent

Diane's a piece of shit that thinks by helping people she'll suddenly shed her status of a pariah. She doesn't give two fucks about whatever she supports, it's just for herself.

Because stories revolved around idealistic protagonists that had super specific and restricted flaws, for most of history.

Real people aren't like that, and to be frank, that doesn't make them bad "people" either. The idea Mr.Pb, Carolyn Todd or even Diane are bad people is moronic, and if that makes them unlikable the word is meaningless.

Holy fucking shit, it's almost like she's a person that does things to feel good.

What is this weird concept you speak of, where even selfless actions are done with a selfish component?

Princess Carolyn is basically the only likeable character

Vanessa Gekko, probably.

You're all wrong, the only likable character is Randy.

Todd being asexual felt like one helluva an asspull to write out what should've been a major moment between the 2 that gets swept under the rug. Now we get shitty asexual C plot with Todd and I could care less.

How the fuck did you misread a message that badly?

Are you Bojack?

It's set in Los Angeles. A city where every fucker with money, or aspirations to earn money, is a narcissistic asshole with zero likeable qualities.

Bojack is meta as fuck.

That's part of it. It's hard to improve with no one to act as support. Everyone around him is broken in their own way, so they're no help to him.

I agree with you on that one, it just didn't make sense to me. Sure Todd's never really tried to get in anyone's pants but that doesn't necessarily mean he's not into sex or whatever.

Frankly I think Aaron Paul just doesn't want Todd to do anything really serious or get into some corny romance or whatever because Todd is also his way of decompressing and expressing himself after his role in Breaking Bad.

How is that meta?

PC is great, she's just depressed because she'll never have biological kitties.

Bojack's father
>Hack writer
>Try to pose as a rebel genious, ended up just being just like any other loser
>Blamed everyone else but him, never really matured
>Expend the rest of his life fucking up and crying about it
>treated everyone around him like garbage, and then crawled crying for help

Bojack's may be a fuck up, but at least he isn't in denial about it

Just one.

Hollyhock is a saint, just by having a thousand of different terrible things being done to her in the few days she stayed with Bojack and still being able to forgive everyone

Is just matter of time until Bojack accidently making sex with her too

Not even Bojack is that shitty. Besides, he's a Hollywoo celebrity, not Bubba Cleetus.

the fly that helped bojack
the mouse boyfriend
carolyn's secretary
hollyhock
margo martindale
personally I find bojack and carolyn pretty likable but this season made me not really care about diane, todd, and peanut butter

Wanda was top tier. Sad she probably wont be coming back.

Who was in the wrong here?

Diane desu

Autists.

the couch

literally the best girl

I disagree
Bojack is consistently horrible to him because he thought he was trying to ride on his fame but PB really just wanted to be his friend

Diane can't enjoy anything, do anything, want anything. I'd call her a sack of shit, but that would give her a function. Peanutbutter and Todd wander aimlessly without going anywhere and get more love than they deserve, but were Todd's sad attempts to be serious make him shit, Peanutbutter is brought down by having nothing to be serious about, except Dead End Diane. Carolyn's ex-bf is a huge blank page that just reads "bf". Holly overall was a letdown. No initial reaction from the characters, bonding that turns out to be something else, averting expectations and, cherry on the top, 7 gay dwarves. Holly felt like the writers backing down from the last season's ending. Partly because it didn't meet my expectations, but mostly the 7 gay dwarves telling me to not take it seriously.

Neither one. Diane is unstable, self-destructive and doesn't know what the fuck she wants and Mr. PB keeps buying her whatever the fuck she says she wants off-hand because he's losing her and he knows it and doesn't know how else to try and hold on to her. Overall Diane is kind of a shitty wife but you can't blame this particular incident entirely on her because she has warned PB against making extravagant gestures like that but he did it anyways like a dad trying to buy his children's love with an Xbox because he doesn't know what else to do.

"Diane can't enjoy anything, do anything, want anything" that's grossly untrue and you know it. She's discussed her longing for a higher purpose plenty of times. There was an entire arc in the show dedicated to her trying to reach what she felt to be her purpose (in which it explodes in her face).

I blame that furry narcissistic asshole and that stupid little war orphan that got blown the fuck up.

There are plenty of likable characters. Just no perfect ones.

I liked PC's mouse boyfriend a lot
She couldve totally patched things up with him and tried to talk to him again while sober, but she didnt think she could