Did feminism ruin Marvel?

Did feminism ruin Marvel?

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Yes.

Marvel was never good.

Maybe

Marvel ruined itself by letting it happen. They made their bed let them lie in it

No.

No. Beta faggots and retarded business men trying to increase their profit margins by appealing to a larger audience ruined marvel.

>people still respond to this bait thread with a bait image
lads

If Avatar Press was smart enough to publish well written, well drawn stories full of interesting characters that looked like the "before" images in OP's pic they'd still be in business. But well, edgetards gonna edge.

No. General virtue signaling did.

Well yeah, your point?

Ruined my dick with that 4 issue cocktease of a pregnancy.

not as bad as Johns ruined DC

Honestly, Marvel has made some pretty good female heroes and villains for years. The only thing is they didn't walk around telling everybody they were a woman like they do now because no one acts like that in real life, they're normal people who have normal conversations that aren't "omigosh did you see this?" or "uck you men and everything". They fought bad guys and did the same shit as their male counterparts. Funnily enough, male writers back then wrote more convincing women than female writers do now.

are you really making this question?

>OP portays skanksuit Sue Storm in a positive light
>OP thinks the new Scarlet witch costume isn't good
>OP doesn't like Frank Cho's artwork for she-hulk
>OP wants 23 yr old Laura to be sexualized
outragefag confirmed

13 year old*

>Did feminism ____?

Yes

>Muh mindless fanservice

...

>Slutty Gamora to slightly less slutty Gamora
Feminazism in action

>almost a decade

Marvel already went downhill in quality writing with Ike taking over in 1997.

everything else seems to be in order tho.

No, two decades of Bendis and Queseda did.

Yes, but the left designs are shit.

Ask again later.

>feminism gave them better, less tackier outfits sans gamora

idk you tell me

#MeToo

Every single one of those new costumes looks better with the exception of Ms. Marvel --> Captain Marvel, that was a downgrade.

>Marvel isn't that good
>better blame feminism
Is op, dare I say, retarded?
How many times did your parents hit you when you were a child, op?

Agree, except Laura. The wolvie costume looks retarded.

Intersectional politics.

stupid incompetent business ruined marvel

as they always do.

just gotta chase after a group that don't give a shit about comics

No.

Shittily written feminism ruined Marvel

What's going on there

Yup.

Should that comma be there?

Possibly. Depends on what she was replying to.

...

>Adopt and push politics that alienate your core audience at best and at worst are openly hostile to them
>Business slowly plummets
Hmm well geez I dunno buddy lemme really think about this one. This is a real brain teaser right here.

Ask their sales figures.

>looks
>still making more money than DC
whats the problem here?

Laura is joining a murder cult that tried to kill her because there are too many Wolverines and derivatives snikting people.
Her point being the people forcing her to snikt people are the real common enemy and don't mind me letting Sabertooth go.

Several series were recently cancelled to low sales and Marvel in bad condition reflects poorly on the American comic book industry as a whole.

But my larger point is that one should look for objective data, like sales figures, to figure out if it "ruins" a company or not. At the end of the day they do this for profit. If the sales suffer, it was a bad idea.

Not exactly. We like feminism as long as we can fap to it. The problem comes when marvel thinks their fanbase is now hardcore feminists. Its not, and that only upsets the loyal fans, and the feminists will always be unhappy, no matter what you do to please them. In that they are much alike their original fanbase, bt at least we can appreciate a good story.

Are there people who seriously read comics for cheesecake? You know porn is a thing, right? Even the most explicit Marvel costume is just softcore to porn. Why raise a fuss about not enough skin, other than just to argue against people who make a fuss about too much skin?

I don't see why these things need to be mutually exclusive. People can have all the cheesecake they want in anything they want, literally nothing wrong with that.

The anwser is obviously yes.

Reminder that there will soon be more Kamala Ms.Marvel issues that Carol ever had. This summer, in fact.

¿Porque no los dos?

I really wish some artist would draw some transform porn of these male heros like spiderman, iron man, wolverine, and hulk morphing into the female versions who now hold the name

and then some DC heros to come fuck them

yeah, OPs image makes you think "oh theyre just adding hot chicks instead of bara men so its a good thing" but nah in reality theyre making bara women

and yes its gross go back to /d/ before you post otherwise

I find practical outftits more attractive than slutty comic book outfits a lot of the time desu my senpai

>the feminists will always be unhappy, no matter what you do to please them
Not quite. It's rather that they go between "I don't like this" and "I don't care about this". As soon as you bow to what they want and give it to them, they stop caring about it, which means they move on to something else they hate, they aren't going to stick around and buy what you've changed for them.

Considering there's going to be an oversized trade paperback with the entire modern Ms Marvel run by Carol, while Kamala Ms Marvel got an omnibus off her first volume that already has more pages than it says a lot.
What it truly says is that Kamala is currently more fitting of that name than Carol, as she's technically the heir of the Mar-vell's legacy, even personality wise she was closer to the fuck-up daughter and son he had. But this is often overlooked when people say she has "no personality" and no traits of her own. And as a big fan of hers this fact is more evident when you compare her to Phyla

>a larger audience
Needs quotation marks. The specific audience Marvel sought was the gamut of feminists and diversity worshippers. The type of folks who are ever so vocal on Twitter and Tumblr, screaming for change and social reform but never actually doing anything aside from signing petitions.

>another company wars thread

A larger audience *within* an already tried and true demographic that is consuming comics and yes, who have been drawn to Marvel for a long while.
This might surprise you, but a lot of people including THESE folks don't even like the most hamfisted stuff released recently, in fact I distinctly remember an article by "black woman nerds" lambasting Riri's characterization in that one issue where she was looking for reasons to be oppressed. Like they know that's not how reality works. of course in the same article they praised America for "doing representation right, but no one's perfect
What I'm saying is, painting large groups of people as the enemy Anna accusing them of not reading just because some books that were supposed to cater to them kinda overlooks the fact that said books weren't for and they knew it, and only a small minority saw fit to complain about their cancellation as if they were representative of the whole.

Well, it certainly makes the experience less fun for me.

Wow what a messy paragraph:
>painting large groups of people as the enemy and accusing then of not reading just because some books that were supposed to cater to them failed* kinda overlooks the fact that said books weren't good*

>This might surprise you,
It doesn't surprise me at all. I've been following the Marvel sales decline along with most of Sup Forums. The proof is in the pudding when it comes to the failure of identity politics and social justice pandering. Businesses don't thrive on the moral high ground and insulting their readership.

Is marvel still losing market share?

mobile.twitter.com/SPD4649/status/956294678927699968
If you blame SJWs and identity politics instead of the horrible business practice then you're playing right into Marvel's hands.

Its not one or the other. It's both. The identity politics taking precedence over proper storytelling, along with the antagonistic attitude of the comic creators online and within the books themselves. The overshipping and book cooking are equally as bad.

You misconstrued my point though, and I get the feeling you're one of those who actually think the creators are trying to create a "divide" among the readership. In fact I'd say that if you disagree with the sort of things they say outside comics (because that's what's really is about), chances are you were not the intended audience in first place.
I've been witnessing too many people trying to tell creators who have always inserted politics in their stuff to "cool it with the politics", and not even only within comics but other media like science fiction. It just makes no sense. And no, it's not about "wanting to read escapism without some politics" because if they agreed with you, you wouldn't complain about it.

>>OP portays skanksuit Sue Storm in a positive light

A surprising number of readers only cared about Sue when she wore that. Maybe they're not "real fans" who care about Sue, but there's a lot of them.

>OP thinks the new Scarlet witch costume isn't good

It's not good. It's not the worst thing she ever wore, it's just boring. The problem isn't the costume, it's yet another busty heroine getting a breast reduction to stop triggering feminists, and also having her skin tanned or darkened in an attempt to appease Tumblrs who want Wanda and Pietro to become brown after having been around for 50 years.

No
Poor standards, the tendency to use comics to promote movies instead of the other way around and a policy that values creating outrage and controversy to temporary boost sales over stuff the fans actually want did.

The push with certain female heroes was a part of that, but it wasn't the source of the issue, just a side-effect of a larger rot that Marvel is only just now starting to address.

They're not trying to create a divide in the readership, they're trying to drive away the old readers, and replace them with new ones, who just don't exist in the numbers they need.

Politics in superhero comics have always leaned left, but as politics gets more divisive, and the views of both left and right get more extreme, it means the lefty politics in your comics have gone from things that are hard to object to, like "don't hate people who are different from you" and "dictatorships are bad, democracy is good", to pushing toxic, destructive concepts like open borders, privilege theory, anti-masculinity, White-replacement, and more.

They're getting push-back from the traditional audience because that audience is getting a message that they should just lay down and die.

white people are the only people upset by this so I dont see a problem since they wont be around in a few decades

These are only American concerns, user. Presuming that any of these things are somehow new and that it's some sort of "radical" form of left politics is silly because it's only perceived as such in the most backwards first world country of the West.
I mean, open borders is an issue despite the EU existing for two decades already? "White-replacement" meaning plain and simple multiculturalism? And painting that as a negative is baffling to me since I'm Latino and plan to emigrate, but I won't hold it against you, even if it's coded word for xenophobia.

Like I get it, some concepts may be foreign to some in the same books they used to read but there comes a point where you end up exhausting the same themes over and over. And given the themes of civil rights and diversity that existed in Marvel for many decades, it feels like ignoring feminism isn't the best course of action.

Either way to me it's about the business practices, pretty sure few would complain if Marvel wasn't bullish about their retailing methods and didn't exert the market constantly, creating trust with the retailers. The content could be sketchy but these books already sank and failed, it's dumb to keep beating that drum.

>the views of both left and right get more extreme,
You know people say that but it seems to me only the right-wing is getting more extreme.

>only the right-wing is getting more extreme.
Its not. Trust me I've always leaned left and recently (aka the last 5 years or so) its been crazy how fast it ramped up. Both sides our guilty of it to some pretty huge degrees.

women dont fit the concept of "superhero" so conceptually yes. its almost completely failed except for them being a spin-off for some fleeting shock value

superhero is like a classical lone-wolf "warrior" who is supposed to beat demons asses up with an axe. why do women have to be such a sweaty and dirty "warrior" and look up to it? except for a spin-off for men like amazones.

anime/manga does this right. magical girls in colorful costume and romantic princess stories like sailor moon are what girls in general actually dream about. or some grim dark shit like goth.

>trust me
I don't tho.

>superhero is like a classical lone-wolf "warrior" who is supposed to beat demons asses up with an axe. why do women have to be such a sweaty and dirty "warrior" and look up to it? except for a spin-off for men like amazones.
Or you know, Valkyries. Newsflash: the concept of superpowered heroes of both genders has existed for a very, very long time and aren't outliers either. Get the fuck out of here with this ridiculous notion that somehow women aren't idealized the same way as men in terms of mythic proficiency.

o k
I wasn't that poster from before by the way

I kind of agree, though I think its less that the outer fringes of the left have gotten more extreme, and more that they've gotten more vocal. As usual, when one side's crazy edge gets loud, the other side is forced to respond in kind or lose votes (because people's willingness to vote is related to how energized they feel about their opinions, so louder = more votes).

Threatening physical violence or political incarceration against anyone would be political suicide a decade ago, but now both sides are leaning towards it. Neither side has really made any formal moves in that direction, and I don't believe they will, but violence in mainstream politics is new in the US, and is most likely tied to the fringe elements getting louder and louder.

Haven't seen a single left wing advocate who praises Pol Pot or Mao or Kim Il-Sung beyond tankies (but nobody takes them seriously). But I have seen a lot of young white people leaning towards "traditionalism", literal white supremacy, libertarian politics of the ancap variety and reading Evola non-ironically. There's more polarization but one side in particular has gotten quite threatening towards the rest of the population.

OH MY GOD, IT'S LIKE THEY FORCE FED THE OLD SHE HULK TO THE NEW ONE!!
MY SIDES!

Ok, I needed that laugh, anyway I think it was trash in many ways before and after the change.
The characters in pic related were never that great, you sods just liked looking at them in their stripper outfits, well guess what?
You lot can just draw them looking like that or request someone draw it, we've effectively lost nothing in that regard.

Is she not pregnant?

Evola is still fringe as fuck user, the mysticist right is so small it can be discounted.
On the other hand, Pelosi has said that she wants the future of america to be brown skinned and brown eyed, and Biden has said on C-SPAN that whites becoming a minority is a "good thing"

it's more realistic for she hulk to be beefy though

I don't really consider them "left wing" but I know Americans do for some reason, so...
And yes he's fringe, but the fact that he's being taken seriously at all was Bannon's fault, it wouldn't have happened otherwise.

why do you get so triggered? i know well about those female protags in japanese media, like shoujo manga, jrpgs, not moeshit but legit ones, and am just arguing about this topic from a sort of sociological viewpoint

some girls may like valkyries but they are not in mainstream and will never. its just one of "historical aesthetics" that doesnt have much to do with a role that girls in general love.

What do you guys consider left wing?

>The designs sucks because it doesn't make my peepee hard

Fuck off and die. Artist can draw whatever he wanted.

>Preganant Spider-woman

He hasn't been pregnant in months. Get over with it. I don't think you are a fan of this character

>Frank Cho as an example of feminism
Are you happy OP? That your bait thread has so many replies? Take my (You), you deserve it.

>its just one of "historical aesthetics" that doesnt have much to do with a role that girls in general love.

Wow, you actually get it. good on ya, you're like one of five people who seems to actually realizes that archetype is more for male enjoyment than female.

Yeah but now Lefties want us to treat trans as people and that's just TOO extreme.

>I mean, open borders is an issue despite the EU existing for two decades already?

It wasn't an issue when the EU was a small group of first-world nations. As it expanded to include a lot of poorer nations, and the borders were opened to anyone arriving from the third world, large scale migration became an issue because it was affecting the culture and identity of nations, without the people ever having consented to it, or even given an opportunity to give consent to it.

>"White-replacement" meaning plain and simple multiculturalism? And painting that as a negative is baffling to me since I'm Latino and plan to emigrate, but I won't hold it against you, even if it's coded word for xenophobia.

The idea of being born part of the majority racial group and living to become a minority in your own country is not something that any sane person would consider to be a positive.

The ugly truth is that the majority of people want to live in a racially and culturally homogenous environment because people feel safer and happier that way. It's human nature. This is why immigrant groups tend to self-segregate into their own communities, and why even the most pro-multiculturalism White lefties don't want to LIVE in it, they just want to visit it and enjoy the food.

There's so many branches that it's not easy to summarize beyond two in particular: anarchism and communism in the extremes. But closer to real life politics (since neither of these, aside from juche socialism, have lasted long), social democracy is what most people acknowledge as "socialism" in common politics.
The thing is, social democracy hovers between center left and center right so it mostly depends on fiscal policies at that point, but the Democrats in the US have a form of center right social democracy. Europe has was more left wing parties in power, although their influence may vary (I'm not European but I follow these things).

Man, Americans really don't follow any of that, all we know over here is left or right, literally nothing else.

Marvel ruined itself by hiring talentless bloggers and webcomic artists, continually doubling down on their "house of ideas" plan even though comic sales are lower than ever. All these changes aren't bringing in newcomers because they see things aren't like the movies and tune out. They also end up alienating old readers because the changes are never natural and feel like "forced diversity" or change for the sake of change.

>Why do tv ads/movies/magazimes promote sex and beautiful men/women? You know porn is a thing, right?

This.

fanboy writers putting out dreck with content inappropriate for kids ruined marvel 40 years ago

Didn't you read the part about "pushing toxic, destructive concepts like open borders, privilege theory, anti-masculinity, White-replacement, and more"?

No. People who think they're feminists and have deluded themselves beyond a good cause's initial purpose to its exact reversal have merely infiltrated the editorial staff whilst also being put under bad leadership and creating a toxic environment where no one understands the appeal of the property they should be marketing.

Long answer: yes.

Yeah and that's a problem, because hotly debating whether someone who changed gender can use a bathroom or not can't be the line that decides if someone is a communist or a nazi.
These are only toxic in the framed context you want to give it. Again, nothing wrong about open borders in principle and this Muslim craze will blow over sooner or later. The rest is the same conservatism's coded bigotry.

>my political beliefs are totally valid
>your political beliefs are extremists

Wow, so wanting everything to be like in the 90s makes you the worst person on the world