Samurai Jack

>Time for some Samurai Jack action!
>Episode 5+ WTF is this!?

How did we go from Angry bitter samurai mh journey to "oh excuse me, my hand touched your hand" ????

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So silly.

This is what happens when your waifufaggotry brainwashes you into making your one-dimensional waifu more important than storytelling by making her a literal plot device.

shut up, the only episode that actually focused on romance and nothing else was 8

Aku himself is a plot device.
>b-but he's a charismatic villain etc. etc.
Yes I know fuckface, but since you're okay with plot devices, maybe next time you should formulate actual criticisms instead of just saying buzzwords you don't understand.

how the mighty have fallen

Aku isn't a plot device. When someone like that user uses the term "plot device" disparagingly they're talking about a character who's there to move the plot along but otherwise doesn't have any substance to them, which doesn't describe Aku at all.

But it totally does. Everything Aku has ever done only happens to move along an episode.

Aku has 0 depth of character. I know he's not supposed to, he's supposed to be hammy and over-the-top, but it still doesn't change the fact that primarily he is a plot device, an obstacle for Jack to overcome, and a means to send him into the future in the first place.

That's completely wrong. Aku had tons of recognizable character substance to him independent of plot points. He's the farthest thing from a mere "plot device" possible because you can actually watch entire episodes of nothing but him being himself and still have a good time.

It's not about a good time, friend. By your definition Aku only exists to move the plot along. Ashi is unironically more of a character than Aku because she's had moments of actual growth.

He's a villain and Jack's foil, retard. His dynamic with Jack is what makes the show so interesting.
Ashi is a plot-device because literally the only reason she exists is to "inherit" Aku's powers and have Jack skip hsi fight with future Aku, only to literally stop existing after the deed is done.
Try growing a couple more brain cells instead of being a defensive waifufag.

>muh waifu is more of a character than a well-written villain who's both funny yet threatening
The absolute autism of waifufags. She didn't grow as a character just because she took a bath and became Tinker Bell after some people told her that Jack was a good person, you don't instantly 180 in personality in one day after 16 years of cult worship and intense training ingrained into you.

You're confusing realism with substance.
You can have a realistic character with no substance and an unrealistic character with substance.
Aku was not realistic, but he had substance, and he was memorable and entertaining independent of any specific plot points. In fact he existed and made a name for himself mostly during a time when Samurai Jack didn't even have a plot.
None of this is to say Aku was anything like a real person with nuanced or conflicting motivations and character growth. That's again a totally different topic which you're conflating with the actual topic here.

Wrong, Aku is a villain, which makes him obstacle. Ashi is a plot device because she simply exists to get Jack OUT of trouble later on with her Aku powers. Aku drives the narrative with his actions and motivates Jack's character journey.

Aku creates the plot. Ashi gets Jack out of the plot.

I wasn't really bothered by Ashi until the end where the plot is more focused on her than Jack's climatic fight with Aku.

>you say my arguments are shit, clearly you must be a waifufag

Nice deflection. This isn't about her being a waifu. Just because you hate Ashi so much doesn't dismiss the fact that she's a better character than Aku.

>No rebuttal to the entire post other than focusing on the insult "waifufag"

Way to admit you fucked up your own point in trying to convince us Aku is a plot device.

Yeah, that's a good point. She might've been fine as a character if it was in the beginning of a TV show's lifespan, but when you know you only have a handful of episodes left for a special return season you really don't want to see all the time getting wasted on some random brand new character. Avoiding that problem alone probably would've made the opinion on the fifth season way more favorable.

t. people still being unable to grasp the point of the ending
For the entire series, Jack's main goal is to go back to the past, which seems like it's gonna magically fix everything by itself. But when he does and his euphoria from the victory fades away (literally symbolized by Ashi), he cannot even be sure he did the right thing. He will never know that now, as neither will the viewer, so hope is the only option.

>spergs about a waifu having more "character" than a fan-favorite villain
>is appalled at being called a waifufag
The fact this is the only point you're criticizing shows that you got cornered.
Acting retarded on purpose isn't trolling, y'know.

You didn't say anything to dispove it? In fact, you only proved it further.
>He's a villain and Jack's foil, retard.
Yes, these are plot functions.

Congrats, you've lost the argument so soundly that all you can do is talk shit.

>saving the Earth from a thousand year of suffering isn't a good thing because Genndy's waifu died
That's stupid, user.

>Yes, these are plot functions.
By your own definition, Jack is a fucking plot function.

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>The series has established several different ways to get back to the past
>Heavily hint at the whole "old King" aspect which got teased further when we saw previews of Jack with a beard
>Jack even made the plan to defeat both future and past Aku to eradicate every possible timeline of Aku. If this was not the case, he would have never stopped to help people in the future sacrificing his chance to go back in the process
>Fuck that just have Ashi get him back because I'm running out of airtime to finish the story
>Oh and uh something about regret I guess, yeah, that's a good sad way to the series, memorable!

As the main character, yes that's his job. Jack's not a plot device overall though.

Buddy, all you ever do is sperg bullshit about how Ashi is a better character than Aku just because she took a bath.
You're the one who lost here.

Refer to:

You don't understand writing at all.

>not a plot device overall though
So you think he's a plot device sometimes?

Christ, when everything's a plot device, nothing is. Did you take some shitty online writing 101 class and drop out after two hours because you figured you knew everything already?

That wasn't the point of the ending at all. Jack going back to the past not being a good thing only exists as head canon for everyone here who think he did something wrong by erasing the existence of everyone in the future, it's clear Genndy himself didn't give a fuck about that. Ashi was just added to the plot at the end because it was part of Genndy's original fantasy about travelling around with his waifu:
>I had the same dream since I was 10, about the world being destroyed and run by mutants. I’d find a samurai sword, pick up the girl I had a crush on, and we’d go through the land, surviving. That was the initial spark to Samurai Jack.
Jack was depicted as 100% having done the right thing, the ending was just bittersweet because his gf couldn't survive. It had nothing to do with whether he did something wrong, it was just an unfortunate happenstance.

>one episdoe
>heavily hinted
Ah, you're still just butthurt about the Guardian.
>Jack even made the plan to defeat both future and past Aku to eradicate every possible timeline of Aku
Yeah, no that didn't happen, there was never a coordinated plan. the goal was to get back to the past. If Jack managed to kill Future Aku on the way, that's just a bonus.

>what are symbols
user, all stories have restraints. Especially TV stories. You cannot possibly show every single consequence of every single plot-important action. That's why symbols exist, the things that are meant to showcase the emotional impact of the action with a single powerful example. This is storytelling 101. Yet so many people these days are unable to undestand this simple concept, thinking that every symbol should be taken at 100% face value without any implications at all. By that fucked up logic, whenever a character looks at a photo of their deceased family, they are not actually feeling sad for their deceased family, but only feeling sad because of the photo itself, with no backstory to it.

See . Just because we're not explicitly shown future characters dying it doesn't meant it's portrayed as a good thing to do.

I'm the sperg?

Ashi's entire character development from "I love Aku" to "I love Jack" happened in the span of one episode, so I don't know why you bring up length as if that helps your argument more than hurts it.

And again, if he wasn't planning on trying to help the future and the past, why bother giving up chances to get back to the past several times if they would just cease to exist?

No jackass, the main character is the plot. Jack's not a plot device but yes his progress controls the plot. Any interference, like Aku, is the device. For example, The Graveyard episode would not have happened without Aku's tampering with that stick in the road.

>"I love Aku" to "I love Jack" happened in the span of one episode
No? It took her at least three episodes.
>why bother giving up chances to get back to the past several times if they would just cease to exist?
I was never a fan of the Monks episode where he goes to help some random Monks he once befriended instead of going back to the past. I mean, sure, outside of the story, I understand that this was the only this could've ended for two reasons: 1) The show being heavily episodic 2) It being a "safe" choice to teach your children, one that nobody would question. Because when choosing between doing some relatively small good deed but being sure it's good OR doing something drastic and risky for the potential greater good but not being sure it will actually work out, then yeah, the first is a much safer option.
But once again, all of this made sense back when SJ was an episodic series with a very primitive morality system. If after all these, it came back and fed me the same bullshit about "never choosing the potential greater good option because doing a small good deed instead helps you sleep at night", this would be worthless and indicate how the show hasn't matured in the slightest.

You're mixing up two different meanings of "plot device."
In a literal sense, all (or almost all) characters move the plot in some way.
That's not the sense people use when they say "plot device" as a criticism. The sense in that context is when a character is nothing but a plot device as in they move the plot but have nothing of interest to offer as subjects in themselves, like they're closer to scenery or the weather than they are to people.

Because he's a good person that wouldn't leave the local area if it would cost them their lives. He never planned on liberating the future dude.
>Ashi's entire character development from "I love Aku" to "I love Jack" happened in the span of one episode
It took 3. Besides that wasn't even a part of the post you replied too.

>The sense in that context is when a character is nothing but a plot device as in they move the plot but have nothing of interest to offer as subjects in themselves
But other user is trying to argue that this is what Aku is. We had an episode where all he did was tell fairy tales to children and it ended up being entertaining because he has more to him than just torturing Jack. Even his self-therapy scene was great.

Ashi on the other hand has had quite a few solo scenes and they all fell flat. Even the fight with her mother was a flaccid interaction.

Sure, except in this particular case it definitely was portrayed as a good thing to do. I'm not saying this because no characters were shown dying in the future, I'm saying this because it was portrayed as 100% the right thing to do. There was not any moment where Jack was depicted as in the wrong for doing what he did in the end. The idea he did something wrong exists entirely as head canon for people like the anons who posted during this season talking about how they expected the Guardian to come back and warn Jack about the consequences of wiping out all that history or whatever. None of this was anything Genndy gave even the slightest fuck about.

I don't know if you're understanding correctly. I'm arguing against the guy who's saying Aku is just a plot device and agree with what you're saying.

>Ashi on the other hand has had quite a few solo scenes and they all fell flat.
That's purely subjective and you know that.

"It's subjective" is a very weak argument for justifying bad scenes.
Just because something's subjective doesn't mean certain works can't be recognized as generally well received or generally not well received. Music is subjective but you'd be retarded if you tried to claim there was nothing particularly good about the Beatles or nothing particularly bad about William Hung.

>There was not any moment where Jack was depicted as in the wrong for doing what he did in the end.
But Ashi fading away is showing that Jack can't both have his cake and eat it. The last scene is meant to reinstall hope in him, as both a ladybug and the tree were used as symbols of hope earlier in the season. Especially the tree, which was still alive in the future. This is pretty much the only thing Jack can hope for now, people he ment stil getting born in the future, or at the very least the future not being terrible.

>masses define objectivity
Is Force Awakens the best movie ever?

Ashi fading away didn't imply he did anything wrong. It was treated as a cause for sadness over an unfortunate happenstance, not guilt over a bad decision. If anything, there's way, way, way more support for the position Jack was morally wrong for doing anything other than getting back to the past, *that* is what the last season spent lots of time hammering away at with the literal guilt ghost hounding him and the hallucinations of everyone he had forsaken in the past.

Opinions being different is a weak argument?You can't just declare something shit as the basis for your spiel and expect everyone to just go along with it.

No, you go by adjusted gross for that, and Gone with the Wind definitely is a great movie.

It's literally the weakest argument there is for defending a work because the work is such shit the best you can do is challenge the idea anyone can even judge it in the first place instead of even beginning to try defending its merits.

Also there's another strong reason why it's clear Genndy didn't depict Jack as having done anything at all wrong with going back to the past:
Jack had the opportunity towards the end to kill Ashi and defeat Aku with Ashi even begging him to kill her, but he threw down his sword instead.
So he actually made the decision not to go back to the past when forced to choose between doing that and killing Ashi vs. not doing that and not killing Ashi.
This is why the ending meant 0 guilt for Jack. He already demonstrated he was blameless and willing to let himself be defeated to avoid killing an innocent (he's done similar things in past episodes too). It was unfortunate and sad, not a reason for guilt or even the slightest indication he made a morally questionable decision. No basis for that claim at all, it simply isn't what Genndy was communicating and only exists as an idea other people imagined separately from the show when thinking about the implications of the future no longer existing. Not once, not even in the slightest bit of passing reference, did anyone in the show suggest Jack erasing the future was an act of harm. Genndy apparently never even imagined someone could interpret it that way because it's not in any part of the show itself either explicitly or as an implied issue.

>Jack was depicted as 100% having done the right thing
Then Genndy does not understand his own character. That's not an endorsement of that shitty movement to divorce creators from their works, it's a result of us having spent over a decade discussing the show and characters at length while Genndy was getting cock-slapped by Sony and Adam Sandler.

If they ever brought him back for a new season of Dexter's Lab, would he say

>I had the same dream since I was 10, about the world being a kid with a super advanced science lab. I’d find a wrench, yell at the girl I called my stooopid seeester, and we’d go through the lab, breaking stuff. That was the initial spark to Dexter's Laboratory.

The last season also spends a lot of time showing the future's world and how the people were still trying to live their lives.
>So he actually made the decision not to go back to the past when forced to choose between doing that and killing Ashi
What? At no point in episode 9 was it stated that Jack could go back to the past, that opportunity only came along in 10. The only thing that's certain is that Jack didn't want to kill Ashi because he loved her but ended up killing her anyway because doing the right thing automatically implied that. You claim it doesn't mean the show portrays his actions as morally ambiguous, I claim it does. Though it is too vague to say for sure, but I still think this interpretation makes a lot of sense.

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