Do you think the Hawkeye Initiative somehow helped the raise of SJW artists and writers on Marvel Comics?

Do you think the Hawkeye Initiative somehow helped the raise of SJW artists and writers on Marvel Comics?

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Probably.

No, but Perlmutter looking for cheaper artists led to the rise of sjw artists at marvel.

How many people do you guys think started reading cape comics just because of the SJW-agenda?
I mean, it seems to me most SJWs like the marvel movies, but few of them actually seem to read any comics

It's a product with lots of potential for growth.

This. Ike the Greedy Kike is the root evil of all of Marvel. He trashed the editors. He cheaps out of everything driving away talent. He wants constant events. He meddled in the MCU until it was finally seperated. His creative council played big roles in driving away directors and stuffing Ultron with ads for other movies.

Honestly a good thing. It is just poking fun at stupid poses.

Honestly, I hope so
The pin-up poses are retarded, and treating female superheros like sex dolls just means you take them less seriously, which means less awesome stories
I think the reason people aren't jazzed about a Captain Marvel movie is just because there hasn't been decades of Captain Marvel being a bad-ass like Wolverine, Spider-man, or any other hero

The Hawkeye Initiative backfired because it became a running joke that everyone thought was funny, including the audience it was intended to mock.

You're really gonna say Carol hasn't gotten almost two decades of push?

People aren't excited for a Captain Marvel movie because she doesn't have any fun villains, really great solo stories, and they're told they have to like her because it's Her Time. Carol's push is everything that's wrong with how Marvel promotes characters, and that's a goddamn shame because she's a good character under it all. She was crippled by Marvel wanting a Wonder Woman and being inherently unsuited to that kind of role.

>Class about comc books in college
>Girl that keeps bringing feminism up talks about how the pose of the woman are oversexualised and people shouldnt do it
>In the same breath brings up the Hawkeye Initiative
>Say "I would buy more comics if guys posed like that"

Fucking hypocrite.

Jesus Christ that's his foot. I didn't read Hawkeye as wearing a high heel like the original so I thought he had hands for feet and was flipping the bird.

Kind of.
Instead of realizing no one was offended by it they were all like "YEAH TAKE THAT NAZIS" and thought they accomplished anything other than proving no one gives a fuck about sexualization besides people that can't get sex.

Yeah welcome to chick nerds these days. You call them on that they say that sexualized men are inspirational figures for buys so it's not the same thing, and you're being programmed as a rapist by looking at cartoon tits.

Is right though, Perlmutter pushed the whole thing as a way to save scratch by going around traditional channels to hire artists who don't know how to negotiate for pay properly.

The excuse is that you want to BE men in comics, and you just want to FUCK women in comics. Empowerment vs Sexualization or some such.

It completely discounts the opinion of gays or bis who want to fuck some of the dudes.

Probably. It sucked though because it discouraged cartoony exaggeration and made people think boobs and butt poses were physically impossible by people who don't know shit about art make corrections to actual professional work.

Or the women, let's not forget how fucking horny pre-00s lady nerds were. Are, honestly, but they were less hypocritical about it most of the time.

Like yeah comics can have a sexy element, the issue is "is that okay or not" and the loudest voices clearly believe, no, because they have this puritan idea that even thinking about sex turns men into monsters and won't hear arguments otherwise.

This.

I was tickled by it, honestly.

It was a decent idea. Poke fun at lazy artists who default to the same pornstar gymnast stock pose for every female charecter and hopefully get them to switch things up a bit.
The problem came when it reached outside of the comic reading audience. With no context the normies naturally concluded that every comic was full of lycra clad pinups and nothing else.

I have a bigger issue with this making Hawkeye look like a flaming homo, than with it beung sexualized.

>literally traces a female's body and put a guy's face on it
>"see how weird it is when a man does this kind of pose?"

Hawkeye initiative is just like any other art meme on the internet, but particularly tumblr. A bunch of shitty artists trying to get attention through someone's idea.

They pick on old art by people that have gotten better for the most part or just don't understand that sometimes in comics you gotta fuck shit up to get the motion across. Or sometimes you just fail because of deadlines.

They're not really learning through this process that would be the most desired outcome because most of then. like OPs pic, do the bare fucking minimum to get their name on the blog. This kind of critique should be helping the critiquer and the people watching, but there is nothing of value in that blog.

So no, I don't think they did any of this because even with the bar dropped as low as Erika Henderson, most people that participate in the Hawkeye Initiative are even worse than her.

THIS
AIM FOR THE FUCKING HEAD

Because fun fact, these poses are possible if you're moving.

Or even if you're not.

>Poke fun at lazy artists who default to the same pornstar gymnast stock pose for every female charecter and hopefully get them to switch things up a bit.
Not an argument. Consider this first. How many valid comic book cover poses can you muster that AREN'T sexy poses? Think carefully. How many are there really? Now consider how often you see THOSE poses on covers. It gets pretty repetitive too doesn't it? So where is the bitching for those poses? Gee. It's almost like the issue isn't laziness, but actually prudishness.

Hey, don’t you conflate Permulter with the rest of us. He is not in good standing with the elders of Zion. How else did you think Stan managed to out negotiste him when he tried to reneg Stan’s lifetime deal?

>Consider this first. How many valid comic book cover poses can you muster that AREN'T sexy poses?

user, I mainly collect Francobelgians. I own series with women MCs that aren't sexualized on the cover, even though they have an active sex life in the series.

...

But those are all pretty uncomfortable and unnatural. THAT'S the point of people objecting to them, since artists use those poses in anything from fight scenes to standing in an office talking to someone.

>How else did you think Stan managed to out negotiste him when he tried to reneg Stan’s lifetime deal?
Ike may be a Super Kike but Stan is already at Super Kike 3.

Dont both male and female superheroes in the Big 2 pull off some pretty ridiculous poses? I know Spiderman and Wolverine pulled off the same pose as pick related

Well it makes sense when spideys and acrobats do it
post wolverine poses, no homo

I don't care. Just post more Hawkdudes.

>you paid money for that class

Jesus Christ fucking hang yourself

>Implying the Hawkeye Initiative isn't the funniest fucking thing ever
>Pic related

Spider man pretty much is the only hero to consistently do all the weird poses usually limted to females.

Daredevil too, and basically every hero that relies on acrobatic skills

>a bunch of people that can't draw trying to tell actual artists how to draw

You can say food is too salty but don't think you can put on a chef's hat and cook if you don't know how to cook.

It's a shame the Power Girl Initiative never took off.

Moar

Okay let's settle this. Who is correct in this debate?

Nope, but I fucking love it. My sister was the one to show it to me and a bunch of us just sat around laughing at it. Cause none of us think sexy drawings are an issue and this was just silly fun

Someone was bitching about it on QI and Sandi (who's taken over for Stephen Fry) just stood up and did it to prove her wrong. And she's fat

I know comic sales are kind of shit for the entire industry right now, but how are comic subscription service doing? Do any of the services release tracking numbers for that?
I know a lot of my friends who've never touched comics have started subscribing to Marvel and Comixology over the past few years(and I know for a fact they're reading the diversity comics).

Danger Hawk?

I like the JL pic there, because you can see that "edit" didn't actually reveal any more of the men's bodies. It was just a recolor. The guys are always essentially nude.

Holy Strawman, Batman.

It isn't complaining that drawing attractive women is bad. It is making fun of how nearly ALL women in comics are super hot babes wearing stripper clothes, performing spine contorting poses while in battle. I can't think of the last female in a comic who was actually ugly on purpose, and not just a result of bad art. Something like Worm, which isn't even a comic was refreshing by just making the female protagonist actually unattractive.

Maybe you could argue on certain characters, that the characterization is like that. But every lady from civilians to immortal beings is a skinny, conventional attractive lady in human fashion. That argument is shown to be bullshit because of how common it is. It instead is just soft-core porn on every page.

link?

Not for nothing but comfort depends largely on fitness. I can barely stand normally because I'm an out of shape lazy fuck with back problems.

I don't get what this is referencing.

>I can't think of the last female in a comic who was actually ugly on purpose
maybe you should read comics. There are lots of other example. Did you know that WOMEN make comics now too?

why is his scrotum exposed when the original pic doesn't have her vulva exposed?

oh wow a fat person who has long flowing blonde hair, blue eyes, big tits even for a fattie, and dimples. So completely conventionally attractive bar being fat. Yeah that is still like a 7/10 for Americans so no dice there mate.

>I can't think of the last female in a comic who was actually ugly on purpose, and not just a result of bad art
Think of villains.
Beauty equals goodness is a unisex trope. The lack of ugly women is due in part to the inherent sympathetic factor and the lower number of villains overall.

Very very few, and most of them didn't even become consistent readers.

A VP at Marvel straight said as much that those people are not reliable customers.

I torrent them but I think it was in episode 11

And I train every day and am capable of doing the splits whenever I feel like it.
Seconding this post, fitness changes what's comfortable and what's not.

Hawkeye hasn't learned how to properly cross dress and tape his balls and dick between his legs

More like faith in whatever child sweatshop worker put that top together.

>It isn't complaining that drawing attractive women is bad. It is making fun of how nearly ALL women in comics are super hot babes wearing stripper clothes, performing spine contorting poses while in battle. I can't think of the last female in a comic who was actually ugly on purpose, and not just a result of bad art.

Welcome to superhero comics where the heroes are larger than life with ideal muscular human bodies to emphasize the action. If you want other body types and costumes than just muscular bodies with "costumes" body-painted on them, read some other comic genre.

>7/10 for Americans
I must be in one of the good states. This is a 4 only because they don't have acne.

>Jesus Christ fucking hang yourself

I am not an american savage like you, idiot, my colege is for free and is one of the best of the country. It was my last semester and I could take any class of any discipline, so I decided to pick one at comic books, where you did mostly nothing.

maybe. i wouldn't mind the drawings if they weren't so poor and oozing bitterness. guys can look good in oversexualized poses and unpractical clothes too. people likes sex, is not a bad thing
inb4 mango trash, is just an example

'stupid poses' lol yeah i'd rather comics looked like airplane manuals too

Oh yeah. I forgot that all males are conventionally attractive and don't have hideous cancer all over their body. Or are a walking pile of stone. A Fucked up face. Reanimated corpses. Ugly demons. Skeletal horse faced aliens. And those are all heroes.

Funny how Sup Forums can lap up realism stories about nearly any part of the comic experience, but how dare you not make them look like demigod porn stars.

Hey, don't shit talk those males, they are sexy as fuck.

Super Hero comics of the Big 2 is really not the plave to complain about idealized body types.

Big 2 is ALL ABOUT wish fulfillment and ideals, with dumb plots and cheesecake. Its the lowest level among comics in general, and made up to prey on easy instincts.

Compare it with Hellboy for example, that is much deeper and can have more exotic art styles and have the luxury of making female character not be conventionaly attractive, because it fits the story.
"Regular" "everyday" people arent out of place in stuff like Hellboy, but you shouldnt be looking for any shit like that on the Big 2. You need to know how to separate things.

Online many, paying for actual books not much.

>You need to know how to separate things.
Exactly this.
Complaining about sexualization in a Big 2 comic is like criticizing Queen's Blade for being "too sexual". It's trying to be. That's the point.

Lady nerds were quite open about what they liked during the 00’s, it was the ‘10’s that this problem started to pop up.

Needs more posing

Oh no artists use dynamic poses in their art, how fucking awful

*That fucking Polnareff pose.png*

This 'un?
youtube.com/watch?v=5YDK7dXMh00

>THAT Polnareff pose
user, every pannel of JoJo is a pose. Even when they are taking a fat indian shit or are dying, everything is a pose becouse Araki isnt a puritan american, he is a man that studied old ass statues and understands that the human body is a thing of marvel and we shouldn't be afraid to show it. Hence why everyone in JoJo looks hypermasculine or gay as hell or both.
So, be more specific and read the damn manga.

Well, out of all Polnareffs poses this one is most obvious, i think

those are Killer Queen and Dio's poses

My High school Econ teacher used have a saying, "they're are only three things in this world and that sell: Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll." All of which can be interpreted differently and all of which Marvel has lost.

Ant-Man had similar problems in terms of source material, and to a lesser extent, Doctor Strange didn't have a lot of modern comics to his name. Marvel didn't start seriously trying to promote either of them until within a year of the movie.

In contrast, Marvel have been trying to make Carol happen for years, it's not working, and it's failed to produce any memorable or well-regarded stories, she doesn't have any popular villains of her own, nor has anyone tried to appropriate other villains for her.

Ant-Man was a superhero movie that comics fans weren't enthusiastic about, but Captain Marvel is becoming one that they're begging for it to fail so Marvel stop pushing her. Her old fans probably see the failure of the movie as their only hope of ever getting the old Carol and her old costume back.

>Ant-Man was a superhero movie that comics fans weren't enthusiastic about
Speak for your fucking self

>studied old ass statues and understands that the human body is a thing of marvel and we shouldn't be afraid to show it.
is that how you rationalize this shit. okay.

Actually was enthusiastic about it, user, but you have to admit, we weren't in the majority.

Even though Ant-man, Doctor Strange and Black Panther are B or C-list super heroes, they are still key parts of the lore of the Marvel Universe, you can't have pym particles and the microverse without Ant-man, you can't have Wakanda and the vibranium used to make Captain America's Shield without Black Panther and you can't have whathever the fuck are those alternate dimensions without Doctor Strange. But what Carol Danvers has to offer?

Kek where in the US is this hambeast a 7/10?

i would say the kree but GotG already covered that

I find it hilarious that she dies from what.... heart disease?

The way I've usually seen it use, it's not usually all that dynamic. It's just lazy, really.

>Look like she's at least in her mid-thirties
>Is actually a teenager
That blew my mind when i discovered that.

How is it lazy? Give me some examples

>Males are ugly when there's an in story reason for them to be ugly!
If you want some hideous women then justify it with the plot. Morlocks exist, you know.

Pic related is the only reason why Faith should be allowed to exist. I can't look at it without kekking hard

>The artist's First attempt at realism
>To counter years of development

i thought this was on going?

You can't just say something offends you because then it's a you problem. So it's gotta be lazy or bad for some other reason.

To be fair I liked Jojo more when Araki was japanese Liefeld

user let me save you some time and point out that you're obviously being baited. They aren't bringing up counter-points to have an arguement/conversation, just contradictions to bait more (you)s.

Amanda Waller says hello.

That wasn't his first, Baoh came before Jojo. Araki just draws weird.

>Amanda Waller says hello.
Her nickname is literally "The Wall".
They make jokes about her falling on people.
Of course she's gonna be big and wide.

Boy I'll bet they had a fun New Years.

>Did SJWs actually motivate comic growth?

You know, it's an interesting question, but not for the reasons you think.

It has more to do with SEO and the way all the search engines are introducing content to people. The objective of all those sites is to maximize your time on them, so Youtube shows you long, sensational videos. Tumblr shows you sensational "informational" posts. Twitter shows you lots of bullshit tweets.

And if you click on any of those links, regardless of the political side you're on, it'll show you more content of a similar nature.

Now, there IS a question as to how that affects these industries. By politicizing video games, did Anita Sarkeesian actually improve them? Or has a character's gender become a point of contention when it wasn't before?

Is it better now that people give a shit if a super hero is black? Do people really want to be thinking a lot about whether or not a gay character makes sense in the context of his own life when the comic has nothing to do with the character's sexual experiences?

Maybe not from a pure happiness perspective. We're probably all a lot less happy now. But in the short term, it probably did help sales. You got people in heated debates about these comics and shows, and SEO leading them by the nose into more and more arguments.

Long term I think it's hurting, but short term I suspect they saw some rise in sales.

It's simply the go to pose artist use for when they want a character to look "bad-ass", but still sexy.

And to be fair, a lot of artist fall back on these lazy poses(both male and female), since they're on a deadline. But it doesn't make it any less lazy when it's used, especially in situations where such a pose makes little sense, or ruins whatever kind of action they were trying to go for.

And it wouldn't be so bad if they at least played with the angles a bit, like in the Catwoman cover. Or something like this But it's almost always an eye-level shot of the character just standing there.

And it's not like the pose can't be used well. There's a difference between WW needing to turn around because she needs to block a shot from an enemy, immediately after punching a guy. And whatever the fuck it is Black Widow is suppose to be doing.