Is Krypton the worst part of Superman mythos

Think about it. Superman is supposed to be the all american guy, granted superpowers. The alien stuff is a unneeded complication that triggers hack screen writers and the general public into thinking Superman is a cold uncaring alien, a demigod that is unconnected from humanity, etc.

Think about the DCEU. Superman had powers from the beginning. He never had any human connection bar his cunt parents and Lois. That is it. He acts like the fucking Hulk, having like a single human connection and just fucking smashing up everything. He just sneers above everybody else. In the comics and some animated stuff he interacts with people and looks natural doing it. Even in Justice League, where they try to have interact with people (the opening with the kids) still looks extremely awkward.

The whole immigrant subplot is ignored the majority of the time and is useless fluff. Billy Batson is a better core Superman, and would have been if DC hadn't sabotaged him.

And of course by making a race full of Superman, makes this odd disconnect between how powerful he is and how unimportant the race is. Every reasoning away of Krypton just rings hollow. It seems better to just make him a singular (or one of a small group) granted immense power that isn't easily disseminated.

>Things casuals believe
I'd blame Snyder, but unfortunately this goes way back. Like in Kill Bill.

pretty sure the Superman mythos is the worst part of the Superman mythos

Just have Superman arrive on Earth from space in a "Pod" and he has super powers. Let the mystery of his past be a mystery and something he also strives to find out.

After becoming the Legend he's known for and feels comfortable of leaving the planet for a long period of time, he leaves Earth in an attempt to find out who he is, which ends the run, series, etc.

Nah it's fine.

Well yeah of course it's stupid, not because of what you said, but because the idea of a whole group of aliens across the universe that looks exactly like humans is extremely stupid.

>Is Krypton the worst part of Superman mythos
No, you dumb casual. Now fuck off.

Comic books are stupid. That's why they're for children to read.

How many multi-billion dollar characters have you created, OP?
None?
Huh, maybe your opinion is actually shit and Superman's backstory works fine.

You mean that's why it's for you to read.

Well that too

He is propped up by being the eldest and sabotaging those with better potential like Captain Marvel.

No, the daily planet is the worst part of the Superman mythos.

Taking away his alienness weakens a lot of the nuances surrounding him. His feud with Luthor and his friendship with Batman aren't as interesting if he's not a demigod that is a simple goodman at heart.

OP isn't suggesting you take away his powers though

>Like in Kill Bill.
explain.

I'd like to remind everyone that General Zod was probably a shining example of what Kryptonians had to offer the universe. Most try to paint them as wise, peaceful intellectuals when in reality they were a bunch of xenophobic assholes who became shut ins after their galactic conquest was thwarted

I never said that either. I mean him being a human granted powers instead of being an alien. It's essential to Clark's character as we know it that he be a non-human born with his powers.

He's referring to Bill's infamous speech in Vol 2 where he says Clark Kent is merely a fake, whereas Superman is the true character. The point that most people miss is that Bill was incapable of imagining a normal person being that human while possessing that much power. Its why Bill couldn't comprehend Beatrix wanting to abandon her assassin lifestyle

>where he says Clark Kent is merely a fake, whereas Superman is the true character
Well he had a point
>Its why Bill couldn't comprehend Beatrix wanting to abandon her assassin lifestyle
And the whole baby thing

Ah i see, thanks.

>the idea of a whole group of aliens across the universe that looks exactly like humans is extremely stupid.

This is why the only interpretation I've ever been able to get my head around is stuff like the Red Son superman origin where it turns out he was sent back in time from a future earth.

>Well he had a point
C A S U A L
A
S
U
A
L

Only on the outside

Not really. He tried to say that everything Superman did as Clark Kent was fake, when the truth is Superman is really that nerdy/normal. Sure he plays it up from time to time to hide his secret, but he's still a Kansas boy at heart.

He's an idiot who thinks the words of a sociopathic villain who was constantly projecting his cynicism and mired in his own self-conceit was meant to be Tarintino's interpretation of Superman proper when in actuality it was painting Bill as the monster he was by taking a character who was so bluntly altruistic and pure-hearted as Superman and only seeing evil intent in his actions.

There was a thread about this stupid Kill Bill superman speech specifically within the last two weeks

>OP once again creates a stupid fucking thread regarding taking away a core part of Supes character all because he hasn't read any fucking comics of note, and is utterly retarded
Good to see that some things never change.

Thanks for clearing that up. Can you label all the organs in that pic and tell us what they do?

The problem is that a lot of people thought that was an accurate description.

As a big fan of Superman and Captain Marvel, I pretty much agree with everything OP said.

If DC wants an emo kid that feels alienated by his otherworldly origin, use this guy. Superman being an alien is by far the LEAST interesting thing about him.

Do I look like the kind of guy with a degree in xeno biology?

>an emo kid that feels alienated by his otherworldly origin
I don't believe you're a Superman fan if that's what you think he is.

So is Martian Manhunter supposed to come off like a sci-fi version of an African immigrant?

I don't think that's what he is, I think that's what shitty writers have made him at times. New 52 and Zack Snyder fell over themselves doing this.

Well you do look like the kind of guy who knows how to bang out a shitty image edit in mspaint.

>Superman sneers at everyone else
I didn't like it either but Superman was just an awkward weirdo.
Wearing Superman's uncertainty and disconnect on his sleeve like that was wrong, but people go to far when they read contempt into Superman.
Same with the Kents, they already fucked up the execution why do people feel they need to take it further by reading things even further into it.
He doesn't, he just thinks that's what DC keeps doing to him.

isn't that what he is? he absorbed the knowledge of our world through television

I don't think there is any other way to read it. Remember Snyder is a objectivist. What the Kents are saying about fuck the world, only you matter isn't just what they believe (which they shouldn't at all, missing the fucking point) but what he believes.

Well sure, I hate that too, but bad writers misunderstanding the character doesn't mean the character needs to be reinvented.

>Superman is supposed to be the all american guy, granted superpowers. The alien stuff is a unneeded complication that triggers hack screen writers and the general public into thinking Superman is a cold uncaring alien, a demigod that is unconnected from humanity, etc.

His creators are Jewish, it's basically how Jewish people see themselves in the mirror. Normal looking 'white' European folk on the outside, superhuman aliens on the inside, a lost diaspora from distant home long destroyed. Everything else, villians, plots, ect may be taken as metaphor from that point.

Krypton is part of the past, and is part of the sci-fi past. The age of silver rockets, jetpacks and helmets with a fin on them, ray guns instead of bullet-firing guns, stories where the hero and all right-thinking people have a pure heart and kindness and altruism, man vs nature instead of man vs man. etc etc. Go read some Adventures of Krypton comics. Maybe include some young adult stories with 11 year olds rescuing a horse, or a girl tracking the wilderness to find a lost dog or something like that.

this

This.

If you want it to make sense it needs to be retconned, which will never happen in main DC continuity.

im looking for adventures of krypton comics but i am not finding anything

Superman as the all-American farm boy is primarily a Byrne thing innit? Legit question, I'm a casual when it comes to Supes.

That's basically accurate. The silver age leaned hard into Superman being an alien. He had a perfect recollection of his limited time on Krypton and thought of himself as a Kryptonian first. He lived in the Fortress of Solitude, he wrote and spoke Kryptonian, he exclaimed "Great Rao!".

Byrne took it in the other direction, putting the "man" back in Superman. He remembered nothing of Krypton and only manifested his powers during puberty, giving him a childhood as a normal human. He considered himself Clark first and Superman second.

I've looked around libgen, looking for the Krypton comics, but a bunch of the comics are gone!
Did something bad happen or I just really late to the party?

I feel like the last bubble would have been better as 'It was Krypton that made me Super... is was Earth that made me Man'

That's... Disturbing

But that's not it at all.
They painted the Kents as scared adoptive parents handling an insane situation who fell in love with a baby and cared only about his well being and were aware of how the world might react to something like Clark. Pretty much everything they did was informed by that uncertainty and fear FOR CLARK. Even the most famous scene of how wrong they got Pa was him struggling to find a way to not say "let a school bus of your friends die so you don't get found out" which is why he couldn't say yes but all people do is meme "KILL ALL THE KIDS CLARK!"
If Snyder is an objectivist his movie did a pretty bad job at objectivism since the moral I read is that "bad things will happen, even as a consequence of doing what is good and right, bad things will happen. You have to power through and continue doing good despite the consequences but cause the world will be worse without that good" Horrible Moral for Superman, bleak and bitter, but not objectivist in the least. Or atleast that's how I read it.

>Good idea: Superman underneath it all is a human and is aware of his alieness and feels the weight of his power
>Bad idea: Superman is human and aware of the weight of his power, so even in the midst of saving the day he looks like a fucking sad sack having a miserable time when he should be making an effort to shine hope into what's a horrifying situation for everyone.

>Good idea:Superman can't save everyone, even those closest to him, that's just life
>Bad idea: Superman can't save everyone even those closest to him, because those closest to him refused to take his help in a contrived situation "for his protection"

>Interesting idea: The Kents aren't perfect either, they're good people but dealing with an impossible situation, but they try
>Bad idea: The Kents fumble the ball again and again, and fuck Clark all to shit...and even then Clark only half listens.

>which is why he couldn't say yes
I think that scene would have been better if instead of saying maybe, Pa immediately says no without thinking, almost like an instinctive response to such a question, but then fumbles as he tries to follow up on it since he contradicted himself. Pa Kent's main quality is his strong moral backbone. The fact that Clark even had a reason to ask him such a question should have set him off more than just an unsure "maybe",

Yes, they got Pa wrong but I'm just saying people go too far in painting them as straight up monsters.

>The whole immigrant subplot is ignored the majority of the time and is useless fluff. Billy Batson is a better core Superman, and would have been if DC hadn't sabotaged him.
The whole immigrant plot being ignored in DCEU is for political reasons. They want to be perceived as more centrist/traditional than Marvel where everybody is a trans/black/lesbian.

Comic only. Marvel movies are safe politically as.

What a terrible thread.

> He never had any human connection bar his cunt parents and Lois

We literally see him talking to Pete Ross, save a bunch of oil workers, and flirt with a waitress which is more human contact than he had growing up in Donner's Superman.

>. That is it. He acts like the fucking Hulk, having like a single human connection and just fucking smashing up everything. He just sneers above everybody else.

LMAO, what? His very first act in the suit is to turn himself over to the military. The first thing he tries to do when he meets Zod is talk to him and find a peaceful solution. You're crazy.

Why do you blame Snyder? If anything, his take was trying to merge the clark/superman dynamic. into a single entity. The might of Superman and the falibility of Clark.

This. OP is a casual.

Funny thing, how Supes has gone from being an immigrant to being a solid piece of America- for different generations of readers and cartoon waters.

Krypton isn't the worst part of the Superman stories, but what would be a good contender? The constant Batman teamups? Whatever happened to Jimmy Olson? You'd think he'd be babysitting John from time to time.

It's not just about the powers. It's the fact that he's biologically not human, yet character-wise he's as "human" as it gets. In contrast to Lex Luthor, who's biologically 100% human and with his intelligence SHOULD be the best of humanity, but instead he's the worst.

Because you actually saw what "real" aliens look like, right?

>all american guy
And immigration is a big part of America.

>Yes, they got Pa wrong but I'm just saying people go too far in painting them as straight up monsters.
They created a monster. In the end making them normal people who aren't up to the challenge of raising Superman, was a mistake. Because the Kents making the right choices raising their adopted son, was the basic argument of why Clark defends humanity.

Snyder decided to go with Jesus instead, so the Kents become worthless and incapable of raising their son, and the sky father had to do it instead.

People forget that origin stories aren't supposed to have much weight to them aside from providing a reasonable explanation for a person's powers/motives. Of course the origin should be well written and not be shit, but still, it doesn't need to be a well-written masterpiece either.

Krypton's purpose is to give a concrete place and explanation for Superman's powers and the extended parts of his mythos. Why does he get his powers from our sun? Because his home planet orbited a red star. Why did he come in a rocket as a baby? Because Krypton was technologically advanced and his father was a scientist. Why does Kryptonite only affect him? Because it's the radioactive remnants of his old world and it would only affect an organism's biology that evolved from Krypton.

People seem to feel they need to play up Krypton's importance to the story, but you don't really need to. Just keep it a simple alien society where robots like Eradicator or military dickheads like Zod are common place and can find their way to earth. Feeling a need to develop Krypton ends up giving us stuff like the boring opening 20 minutes of Mos.

>Think about the DCEU. Superman had powers from the beginning. He never had any human connection bar his cunt parents and Lois. That is it. He acts like the fucking Hulk, having like a single human connection and just fucking smashing up everything. He just sneers above everybody else. In the comics and some animated stuff he interacts with people and looks natural doing it. Even in Justice League, where they try to have interact with people (the opening with the kids) still looks extremely awkward.

Fundamental misunderstanding, even of a flawed or non-standard vision of a character that has not merely survived for more than three quarters of a century, but has endured with a great deal of appreciation and affection for much of that time by a very broad and substantial number of people all over the planet.

Perhaps you should base your opinions on something other than a few films, if you want to discuss something that has such a history.

It's like discussing the American Presidency by just using Obama, GW and the current occupant only.

>a backstory so good that it was even used twice

No.

>they created a monster
They created an insecure hobo with inconsistent priorities.

you are a fucing idiot OP

>the Superman mythos is the worst part of the Superman mythos

Sort of like the White Race is the worst part of the white race?

Or how the Winter Olympics are the worst part of the Olympic experience?

Or how Sun is the worse part of the solar system?

Mythology or mythos means something, whether you are simply using it in a description of literature or a description of cultural artifacts, cultural history, aspects of mythology in popular culture, etc., etc. - in other words, in any number of ways the word could be logically or sensible applied,

It's not a meme just because you toss it around.

>he idea of a whole group of aliens across the universe that looks exactly like humans is extremely stupid.

Because the idea that our gas giants would be similar to gas giants hundreds of thousands of million light years away, because they orbit yellow suns hundred of thousands of millions of miles away that are vastly different than our own, whether at this part of its life cycle or when it turns into a brown dwarf or a red sun.

Because of course whatever elemental, well, elements they have hundreds of thousands of millions of light years away from us are DIFFERENT so when they are COMBINED they will form rock beings who have silicone based diets, amirite?

The alien mythos is absolutely crucial to what Superman is, you mong. When you play it against the stark contrast of his upbringing by the Kents, it establishes him as an all-American guy that, while he fits in seamlessly do to the aw shucks demeanor, marks him as a perennial outsider.

No matter how much he seems like he belongs, he never actually does. That is incredibly important to Superman's character. If you don't understand this, how can you be a fan? Boggles my mind. Fucking movie kids.

So, you're agreeing that the Kents are cunts and Lois is just a more realistic version of that life-size pleasure pillow, and he should just fuck shit up all the time, sneers while he does so and that DC should just stop putting out new Superman material because Billy's alter ego is the same thing, but better?

And J'onn's also the superior alienated alien who is overly angsty and emotional, because he's that self-same alienated alien, BUT don't stop writing new Superman material, just make him Batman with metahuman powers: does that mean some drifters, all In Cold Blood, swung by and dropped Jonathan and Martha while she was serving them pie?

>No krypton
>hell lets make him from canada instead

Pic related. Fraser was great, he was all the boyscout I imagine that clark would be even without the powers. I mean some of the shit he does is bullshit almost super human but he's like if clark tried to be batman. In fact yeah. If you wanna see a show that's about 'What If...Superman was batman?' It'd be Due South.

There are two different World of Krypton minis, the Krypton Chronicles and the Last Family, Last Stand and a couple of other stuff, plus some imaginary silver age tales that have not been collected on their own as far as I know.

Nope Libgen had some weird crash. You just have to dig around a bit or ask.

He was raised since he was an infant as an american, i am pretty sure that counts as "all american hero"

>Snyder decided to go with Jesus instead, so the Kents become worthless and incapable of raising their son, and the sky father had to do it instead.

The notion that Clark was some glorified abandoned dog who had no sense of himself until he met his Ghost Dad was one of the worst parts of that piece of shit. It basically renders the Kents utterly irrelevant as people, glorified placeholders until Rustle Crowe tells him everything he needs to know. Between that and Clark's magic DNA being the key to everything it adds this bizarre and frankly kind of disgusting theme of genetic purity being paramount to a person's development and bloodlines being the most important thing to someone.

I really don't need themes of inherent genetic superiority of bloodlines in my fucking Superman movie, Snyder. i know you nut all over Ayn Rand and her "Well, some people are just more ~worthy~ of being alive" horseshit, but that's not what I want out of goddamn Superman.

It gets worse with BvS and the "The idea of Superman maybe being forced to take personal responsibility for the consequences of his actions is a FAKE NEWS conspiracy by an inherent inferior who wishes to drag our perfect god to his level" crap. Everything about the themes of these Snyder movies is are fucking wrong.

Smallville was a pretty good example of Jonathan and Martha being aware that Clark was different and how he had to keep that differences from others, and why - for example, the entire football playing stuff. It didn't require having Jonathan say "KILL ALL THE KIDS" -- or even, "LET THEM DIE" -- and both the portrayals are often seen as, if not GOAT, then pretty high up there.

Jimmy wasn't aware of Jonathan Samuel until after Superman Reborn; that's when you have Perry asking about his grandson. And the issues have been all caught up in the Imperius Rex, Super Sons of Tomorrow, My OC By Jurgens, etc. type stuff. They've barely had either Clark or Lois in the newsroom.

I don't read Marvel so I can't really say I'm terrified of what Bendis will do which seems to be the stock response here, but I do admit I look forward to the idea that he suggested in that interview of having more stuff going on in the workplace, at the Planet.

Don't get me wrong, unlike some, I did enjoy the farm stuff and the Jonathan growing up in Hamilton County and wish, especially since Martha AND Jonathan are both definitely dead and apparently the farm in Smallville is rented out to that guy Morrison mentioned, but I do hope they keep the farm, since it's 'upstate' from Metropolis, even as a 'vacation' home, if not a working farm.

But I'm hoping for some good Planet based stories.

no, the worst part is metropolis and lois lane.

now fuck off.

>doesn't understand how randomness affect evolution.

Oh, thank you. I don't know what I do and don't have anymore..
I like the idea of Jimmy being the genre-savvy babysitter for John. After the Silver Age, is there any trick that he can't see coming?
And the farm stuff was great, it just seems that there wasn't enough spare comic titles on the planning chart at the time to devote one to John and Kathy's Superboy and Supergirl farming adventures.
Ma and Pa Kent may be dead now, but they'll return eventually. History, the need for a positive influence, reboots and retcons and "making it an accessible jumping on point for new readers" will bring them back somehow. If not those, then robot doubles and multiverse Batmetal escapees might. Having two sets of Kents at the same farm sounds fun. "I [u]can't[/u] sleep in the barn, it's full of hay and crashed spaceships!"
Planet based stories might mean a return of a few "Clark the wimp" comics like they had in the 70s/80's. "I have to struggle to change this water cooler and get my report written before deadline! Without revealing I'm Superman!"
Thank you kindly.

...

>They created an insecure hobo with inconsistent priorities.
An insecure hobo with the power to destroy the world. That's a monster by many definitions. And the Kents in Snyderverse taught such a creature, selfishness, INTENTIONALLY.

Who can reproduce with humans.

I think most of the arcs involving Krypton lean in the direction of Kryptonians being crazy. The original Eradicator arc, anything with Zod, Superman in Exile, New Krypton...

Kents are the worst parts of Superman's history. Superman has been shit since they brought back the Kents. Literally no good run since then. I don't get the fascination with turning Superman into a dumb hick. If an idea matches with Byrne and Bendis, it is a bad idea.

>Krypton will follow Superman's grandfather, Seg-El; whose family, the House of El, has been ostracized and shamed. Seg-El fights to redeem his family's honor and save his beloved world from chaos.

but the planet blows up anyway. why should i watch this again?

he became really powerful because long exposure of our sun, any other kryptonian who never feel our sun as long as supes are not supposed to be as powerful as him.

And now we know what Brian's plans are. Fuck yourself Bendis.

I loved KB and KB2 but that speech at the end of 2 ruins Bill for me. He doesn't know a fucking thing about Superman. And it isn't represented as "this is wrong" it's represented as "whoa Bill's kinda smart and heady".

Welcome to Sup Forums, my newfag friend. It would be appreciated if you stopped posting now and fucked off until you'd read a few comics, particularly the ones you're talking about.

>That's why they're for children to read.
Can you prove this? Because DC is literally creating two new lines aimed at children and older-children. It would seem children, their parents, the publishers or a mix of the three don't find comics to be "for children".

it's been on TV a lot lately. It's funny usually when I find threads about older shit popping up I eventually find the movie popping up in TV listings.

MOS posting, aside from BvS threads, seemed to have faded out until USA started showing the movie almost daily. Then we get the carbon copy "clark dodging the tanker that zod tosses at him" thread.

he isn't an idiot. if you're watching that as "oh wow the evil villain is evil" then you're the idiot. That's the "real world" commenting on the "fictional world" within a movie that is VERY much directed like a comic book (not even a CBM because they don't care about comics KB1 was manga/anime but KB2 was western comics).

Bill ISN'T supposed to be seen as deranged. He's supposed to be seen as relatively intelligent. He's displayed as a calm, relatively fair man who's ruthlessness is only displayed in his apathy and decisions.

But make no mistake, that speech isn't supposed to come off as "holy shit is Bill wrong on this one, what a psycho." It's represented as "yo that dude's kinda right, though, famalam". Most people don't know superman like a comic reader or Sup Forums poster. it isn't written for us.

>Superman is supposed to be the all-American guy
Who's supposing this? Is this your supposition? Fuck you.

Whoa whoa whoa, the point OP was making was absolute ass but he ABSOLUTELY IS the All-American guy.

Fuck you if you disagree. It's not even debatable.

superman not american

he am american
you am dum dum
trogg club you behind cave

...

>Superman literally has a big heart

No, because it adds more dimension to his character besides "is earnest".

The reality that, no matter how human he appears, Superman ISN'T one of us is a driving force for his character. It's like finding out you're adopted; it makes the act of loving your adoptive family all the more powerful.

Not to mention his feeling of responsibility towards rebuilding Kryptonian culture (protecting Kandor, for example) gives him something interesting to do that's purely his own. Like, Batman wouldn't be nearly as interesting if there wasn't the pressure to be Bruce Wayne; the fact that he puts on a civilian mask and assists the city through philanthropy gives him nuance besides "angry man who dresses like a bat".

Same thing with Superman; when he's not saving the day or working at the Planet, the fact that he likes to study about his alien heritage makes him feel more like a real, nuanced human. His personality doesn't end with "well golly-gee gosh Lois I sure am glad I saved you from that robot monster", we see that he has his own, personal things that he alone is totally invested in. He didn't get it from the Kents or Lois or anyone else on Earth, so that sense of independence means a lot in the grand scope of his character.

Granted, I tend to consider Superman's Kryptonian shit the least interesting part of his character, but you can't have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat.