Why was he given the keys to the DCEU? Why weren't they taken away from him before it was too late...

Why was he given the keys to the DCEU? Why weren't they taken away from him before it was too late? He destroyed all the goodwill Nolan had built for DC characters. I hate him so much. I grew up reading DC comics and watching DC cartoons. Now it's seen as a joke compared to Marvel. Why pick him?

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I dunno. I liked his stuff.

You gotta realize how fucked DC films were outside of Batman. Green Lantern was a bomb. Jonah Hex was a bomb. The Losers was a bomb. While still disappointing at the box office, Watchmen was the closest thing to something interesting.

Eh maybe if they gave him and their directors actual freedom.

no one else wanted anything to do with the DC cinematic universe, so he and his wife picked it up and went forward with it

WB exec: shit we need to make superman badass
>sees 300 was received as comic book badassery
>gets snyder
>snyder doesn't have a single decent storytelling bone in his body, nor does he even begin the characters he's put in charge of
>JUST

I used to enjoy listening to people like sean gerber talk about dc movies, now I can't listen to them without being disgusted at how they create and attack strawman snyder dissenters.

>Why was he given the keys to the DCEU?
He put his hand up and agreed to make Man of Steel on short notice. He was the only person who was available at the time. He was rewarded by being given BvS. But then midway through JL filming the studio decided they needed to get rid of him, so he was fired. And then AFTER he was already fired, his daughter died. Warner than forced Snyder to pretend his daughter's death was the reason he quit. All so the audience could be tricked into thinking the JL film isn't a disaster.

He wasn't the only person. He was just the only one prepared to make an intentionally-bad, career-wrecking movie. Which is why he was paid so much of the gross - because even 10% of that at what they probably expected it to make would still be two or three big-budget movies (and more than enough to get by on, and to fund his pet projects at Cruel and Unusual, and presumably eventually redeem himself through those).

Then it made money and everybody's asses fell out, so they just said "fuck it, give Snyder what he wants if he's got the pitches", and he pitched and they said "sure" and here we are.

Literally any other studio would've taken him off of BvS/JL after MoS. They really underestimate the power of word of mouth and sites like Rotten Tomatoes. It's a damned shame when Black Panther out grossed JL's entire domestic run in one fucking weekend. The fucking Justice League.

Rick Fukiyama's shady ass tweet made me laugh too.

Remind me, what tweet?

He retweeted an article about BP outgrossing JL and on his instagram he put the frog/tea emoji combo.

I don't blame him one bit either because I would've been pissed if I were him and his casting was one of the few DCEU decisions that actually made people happy.

>The fucking Vacation writers are working on the Flash movie now.

He's got a good cinematic eye, but he can't tell a story for shit. It's why his most memorable films are adaptations of other properties and why Suckerpunch sucked ass.
Making him the leading director for WB's next flagship franchise was a mistake and he should've been taken off after MoS.

MoS was decently reviewed, made some money, and most of the audience liked it. Even the people who didn't review it generally liked the action sequences. Also his production company was putting up the money. It's no surprise that they didn't take him off BvS, the issue is that they meddled in the film the wrong way. Instead of reviewing his MoS 2 ideas and drafts they had him add Batman and called it a day. Even after that they should have pulled him out of the editing room, cut about 15-20 minutes out of the film, and released a far better product.

>why Suckerpunch sucked ass.
Suckerpunch is basically Christian Science theology with tits and ass. Seriously.

>grew up reading DC comics and watching DC cartoons. Now it's seen as a joke compared to Marvel
You act like DC doesn't have better comics, cartoons, games, and TV.

I really liked MoS and the director's cut of BvS too. Granted, he was the wrong guy to go with if WB wanted something safe and profitable. By the time they tried to do that by meddling with JL, it was pointless, since that audience wasn't going to see it anyway.

>saves your franchise
avclub.com/alex-garland-wants-to-make-a-swamp-thing-movie-1822977473

Here's the thing though, a film franchise shouldn't start off with decently reviewed and for what it's worth I didn't mind MoS or the director's cut of BvS. It's just frustrating because the DCEU shouldn't be in this position right now if the WB could get their shit together and for Zack to know when to cut the fat and to listen to some of the legitimate criticisms that MoS got.

Yeah but it fucking sucks to see the current DC cinematic universe. The comics, TV, and games are cool, and I'm sorry man but even their animated features have been so hit or miss lately that I can't even say that they're good any more.

>He destroyed all the goodwill Nolan had built for DC characters

All the goodwill was for Batman, you moron. And people liked Snyder's Batman outside of REEEEEEEEEEE BATMAN CAN'T BE PORTRAYED AS A MANIAC!! which of course, completely misses the point of the movie.

I still have no idea how Man of Steel got okay reviews. I found it to be one of the worst superhero movies I've seen. It was boring and horrifying, which is a combo that I hadn't really gotten before. It is a helper monkey hobo being fed Randian garbage and then what a Hulk movie should be. Two dumb brutes just destroying a city.

There is a lot wrong with Joss Whedon. A lot. He is a sexist hiding behind ini this fake feminist bulkshit. His directing is very bland. Etc. But at least he has read a comic, and knows that Superman is more human then Batman. Which he put in Justice League. Too little too late, but the movie at least was just middling bad, not aggressively horrible.

>Even after that they should have pulled him out of the editing room, cut about 15-20 minutes out of the film, and released a far better product.

Snyder's Ultimate Cut is far better movie than cutting it down even further from the theatrical cut.

I have the exact same questions for Iron Man 2 and Thor 2.

Wonder Woman says otherwise.

DCEU should have been:

Batman Begins
Superman Returns
The Dark Knight
Wonder Woman
The Dark Knight Rises

>Two dumb brutes just destroying a city.

That's what happens when Superman fights bad guys, mate. Metropolis gets wrecked all the fucking time. Just because you've got flashbacks to 9/11 doesn't make it bad.

>Which he put in Justice League.

All he does it make quips, makes the entire Justice League be entirely useless in comparison and smiles under his million dollar CGI upper lip.

The thing is though, superman slugfests are fucking boring and always have been. His best stories ala siegel/shuster, maggin, and morrison are when he's put in complex moral dilemmas and has to use his ingenuity to overcome the impossible. Of course there should be huge special effects spectacles in accomplishing that, but snyder's DC action sequences apart from that batman warehouse scene are cancer.

Because he's married to one of the execs at WB, and he'd previously produced popular comic book movies like 300. That's it.

>The thing is though, superman slugfests are fucking boring and always have been

People WANT slugfests with a Superman movie. He's fuckign Superman, why can't we see him benchpress the moon?! One of the biggest complaints about Superman Returns was that he doesn't punch anything and instead just lifts heavy things, which is the definition of boring shit in a superhero movie. People don't go to a Superman movie wanting him talking for two hours and then offer hugs to people after a slight moral quandary is resolved.

>actually thinks goodwill was destroyed
>thinks the next batman film will not be block buster hit

Benchpressing the moon is exactly the sort of thing you would see in the stories I'm talking about. All-Star superman is the benchmark for superman storytelling if not for all time then for at least modern times. Every obstacle superman overcomes in that series is the type of challenge that's worthy of him, none of those included a boring superhuman slugfest full of wanton destruction.

You’ll note that Marvel learned from those mistakes. And they didn’t hire the same people to direct after them:

I think the problem is that they always put him up against villains that don't offer him anything interesting to do. it's always Zod or Lex. We never get villains like Parasite, or Brainiac, or Mongul, villains that offer a change of pace for the films. Hell, you want to have a slugfest along with some moral questioning of Superman's character, get Bizarro to be his next adversary.

The least they could do is have him fight somewhere other than a city.

>Mongul
>Change of pace

He's literally just a yellow slug monster. War World is entirely superfluous background wallpaper.

>The least they could do is have him fight somewhere other than a city.

MoS and BvS both had fighting in the sky and edge of space.

I remember hearing that before they brought Batman into the MoS sequel to kickstart the DCEU, Metallo was going to be the MoS2 villain.

>And they didn’t hire the same people to direct after them

I think it's more that they only want to hire yes men, and most people get so fucking frustrated with the type of shenanigans Marvel Studios does that they don't want to come back.

The directors who made those movies, as well as Age of Ultron, were not invited back to make more Marvel movies.

>MoS and BvS both had fighting in the sky and edge of space.
For like, two fucking seconds. When I say fight somewhere else, I legitimately mean have him fight in a non urban environment. After how many superhero films with their climaxes set in the city, having Superman duke it out on an alien planet or in the woods or in the arctic near the Fortress of Solitude would offer more variety than the "smash guy into building, fly around to the other side, smack him into the ground" move we've seen him pull a million times before.
>War World is entirely superfluous background wallpaper.
Cunt what? You telling me there are no opportunities for interesting set-ups in a giant machine planet that also doubles as a gladiatorial arena? Have Superman be depowered upon transportation to the War World and have him fight a bunch of c-list villains and monsters for a bit. Worked for Ragnarok, it'd work here, so long as you control the amount of jokes there are.

>I remember hearing that before they brought Batman into the MoS sequel to kickstart the DCEU, Metallo was going to be the MoS2 villain.
Fucking goddammit WB.

>You telling me there are no opportunities for interesting set-ups in a giant machine planet that also doubles as a gladiatorial arena?

Oh, so alien urban environment smashing is fine, just don't do it in recognizable human cities?

>Christian Science

What is that exactly? I've heard the name before but never bothered to look it up. Is it just a case of some nut adding the word "science" to their religion to trick people into thinking it's more rational or evidence-based than all the other religions or what?

You’re right about Thor 2 but Iron Man 2 is not all of the director’s fault since Feige forced in all of the Avengers set-up and wimping out of doing a proper Demon in a Bottle adaptation. Plus, he was the one who wanted Malekith’s background to be cut in order for more jokes to be added during reshoots.

>makes the entire Justice League be entirely useless in comparison
That's not accurate to the comics how?

>Oh, so alien urban environment smashing is fine, just don't do it in recognizable human cities?
Yes, the whole point being that it's ALIEN, as in, it's strange and offers something new to look at other than the same grey and blue skyscrapers getting destroyed in every other superhero film.

Also have you seen the interior of the Warworld? Plenty of opportunity to have more concentrated, creative fights in.

Because Superman has major weaknesses that the movie didn’t utilize

>no kryptonite
>no magic
>no red sunlight

Seriously, there is a reason why Superman has been shoved with more weaknesses in later iterations.

Comics don't generally do "Superman leaves a fight simply because only he gets to save civilians"

When i hear and see all of the drama and nonsense behind the DCEU movies, and look at what it all amounts to, a large part of me wishes i was handling these movies.

Anyone else feel the same? When you see something so important being handled poorly and you want to just get in there and fix it yourself?

No, I don't know what I'm doing. There's been tons of great things in comics and movies that I would have said 'that's a shit idea' and it never would have happened.

The thing I'm really curious to see is if Aquaman will defy everyone's expectations and finally make him "cool" to the mainstream. Zack really did ruin Superman for an entire generation though.

I'm not that arrogant of a fanboy, no.

I just want new management for WB. They wanted to fucking cut the no man's land scene from Wonder Woman.

I legit don't see a way for them to fix the current iteration of superman without it being messy in some way. Maybe they could fix it x-men style by saying yolo fuck it.

The tricky thing about aquaman will be how james wan pulls off the underwater shit which hopefully we'll get some glimpses of in a trailer soon. If they do it like they did in the justice league movie, that will be a bad sign.

Singer's deadbeat stalker dad already did that.

>I legit don't see a way for them to fix the current iteration of superman without it being messy in some way
They tried in Justice League by pretending everything from the previous two films except his death never happened.

It's kind funny that he feels like superman for the first time in that movie yet in putting those scenes in they had to give him a horrifying CGI face. Bad luck cavill should be a meme. He really could have been the iconic superman of our generation.

This.

Even ignoring the stalking part, he got her pregnant in Superman II. Most likely Superman left before he knew Lois was pregnant, so we can assume he left shortly after Superman II. Really shortly. He's Superman. He would be able to see Lois was pregnant very early on. So in Superman II he painfully learns that he must put the needs of Earth ahead of his own personal desires. He apologizes to the President for being away so long (we was gone maybe a week or two) and that he won't let him down again. Then he leaves Earth without telling anyone for five years. He also leaves without covering his bases. He doesn't secure the dangerous tech in his Fortress of Solitude. He doesn't make sure his departure won't result in Lex Luthor's release from jail. He doesn't even apparently warn the President he's leaving. His actions fly in the face of everything he learned in Superman II and everything he swore to do.

Just saying i wish it could all be done by someone who actually cares for the stories and characters they're abusing.

TFW you've written a pseudo-fanfiction version of Man of Steel and BvS

Hey I'm writing my own 'ultimate batman' bendis style using all of batman's canon.

*flips your reality*

heh

There is no way that is real. That scene made the movie.

Patty jenkins herself pubicly debunked that rumor so...

Wish WB hadn't booted him from JL. Nothing can convince me that whatever he did was worse than the shit Whedon added.

>I didn't bring a sword
>He is tall
>Something's definitely bleeding
>Itchy
>I don't not like you
>I believe in truth and I'm a big fan of justice
>Brunch

I mean fucking hell.

For all the shit joel schumacher gets, his batman never said some of the crap whedon's did.

From what I heard, Schumacher originally wanted to do an adaptation of Batman Year One. Studio probably vetoed that in favor of something more campy after the backlash from Batman Returns.

Snyder's problem is that he tries to turn something as silly and lighthearted as comics into serious, gritty drama. He does as good a job at this as could reasonably be expected, but the source material just isn't suited for the kind of movie he seems hellbent on making. That said, I strongly suspect Justice League would have been marginally better if the studio hadn't panicked and replaced him after it was already too late to fix the movie. Whedon had just enough time to hack it up and make it tonally inconsistent, but not enough time to do anything else.

fucking nineties parents prevented a burton trilogy
>feels bad man

>but the source material just isn't suited for the kind of movie he seems hellbent on making.

Absolute bullshit.

I don't know. There's a lot of reports that said snyder presented an unwatchable cut which was the reason they fired him. BvS was a soul destroying melancholic experience. I can't imagine his justice league was better than what we got.

the deconstruction meme got old in the 80's

Could he still save it if given the chance?

>but he can't tell a story for shit
Still don't understand people saying this. There was not a fucking thing wrong with Mos's story.

It would've been a consistent vision at least. Probably still bad but you'd know what it was supposed to be. "Fixing" movies after they've been shot is a meme, it always just creates an incoherent mess.

He doesn't want to. Otherwise, you'd hear articles saying "Nolan accepts multi-billion dollar deal to helm DC movies".

It was based on a melancholic story about a dying, elderly Bruce Wayne basically shouting "Get off my lawn!" to a demigod. It was always going to be moody and depressive, especially with Snyder in charge. They should have either based it on a different story or just gone all out and adapted it more faithfully with no attempt at linking it to the expanded universe.

Easily

For one thing I'd just jump in and read a shitload more of the DC stuff I've skipped so I'd have a better understanding of what drives each character. Don't get me wrong, I've got a good 'idea' but that's just from what I see in the cartoons and a few comics I own. Research needs to be done. The character motivations need to stick to the comic books even if the costumes and such change.

>this is the world we've living in

I actually love that this happened so the execs can't use their typical 'the people have spoken, and the superhero fad is over' type excuse.

This is good. Cyborg now has a real chance with that solo movie.

I think what I hate the most if the horde of enraged cocksucking snyder-fanboys swearing he's the best director of all time, and the only one capable of putting DC's heroes on screen because "muh darkness", "muh edgy Superman", "muh superheroes-that-are-not-for-kids". Fuckin cunts.

KEvin spacey would have tried to rape Christian bale, assuming the martial arts stuff was a Batman meme. Bale would deliver a solid blow to Spacey’s midsection, knocking the wind out of him, then follow up with a jab to the face, breaking Spacey’s nose and disorienting him. A foot sweep from Bale would take Spacey off his feet and send him to the floor with a sickening crunch. Then Bale would place his booted heel on Spacey’s throat and say “You pickled the wrong Jimmie, innit” in a thick cockney accent before applying enough pressure to cut off Spacey’s airflow and killing him outright. After that they would have to recast Luthor and the film would go over budget. The big wigs would get nervous and seriously underfund the marketing causing the film to flop in theaters. Many would see it on cable and it would become a cult classic.

>actually wanting that CGI monstrosity to have his own movie

user pls

It's more poor execution of good ideas. Like portraying the Kents as imperfect flawed characters, alright sounds cool. But they bungled their dialogue and portrayal making them seem just generally incompetent, borderline-sociopathic, parents that fuck up giving their kid good morals to follow. Or having Superman grapple with the weight of the world on his shoulders internally. Sounds like a good premise, but all that amounted to was Clark looking fucking depressed whilst saving the day instead of putting on a brave face whilst facing his personal problems away from the public's eyes, which is what modern portrayals have been for years now. Or how Zod wanted to break Clark and force him to kill him. Alright, sounds like a perfect set-up for Clark to pull out a method of defeating Zod without killing him and thus prove moral superiority. Instead they went with him snapping his fucking neck.

MoS wasn't even that bad of a film, mediocre sure but not terrible. It's that they just never put any effort towards amending these issues in the sequel.

The weirdest thing about DC's ongoing implosion at the movies is that they generally do pretty well against the competition in all other venues. But they are ultimately going to lose the franchise war and be dethroned because they just can't get their shit together in the one arena that really matters.

>But they bungled their dialogue and portrayal making them seem just generally incompetent, borderline-sociopathic, parents that fuck up giving their kid good morals to follow

They taught a little boy to be careful with his powers, not encourage him to run around willy nilly exposing himself to the world way before he's mentally capable of handling the shitstorm it will create. MoS Superman understood the world changing importance Superman's sheer existence represents. Every other origin basically treats it as "oh hey a dude decided to put on a cape and save people, yay!"

>Every other origin basically treats it as "oh hey a dude decided to put on a cape and save people, yay!"
But that's wrong too.
youtube.com/watch?v=QUUGDRxJnFU
youtube.com/watch?v=YQaXEnbcBT4

Superman actually frightening millions of people and making them paranoid about him destroying the world will always be a terrible idea.

>In another world, the George Miller JL movie took started off the DCEU, giving the MCU competition, causing both to create wonderful movies in attempts to 1 up each other

Literally worst timeline.

I remember when I saw the trailer for MoS.
>Oh, they're trying to make Superman grimgritty like TDK because it sold, clearly thet have no clue that the two characters need to be be utilized differently
Never watched it or any DC movie afterwards. I am quite content with my choice.

Lego Legion of Doom is better than any of the DCEU movies.

I haven't seen this. How petty is Black Manta?

Petty enough, the whole legion is great.
Be warned that the rest of the DVD lego movies don't hold a candle to this movie though.

Wait, why is J'onn there?

They trick him into thinking Legion are the good guys after freeing him.

>Literally any other studio would've taken him off of BvS/JL after MoS

Doubtful. MoS was a financial success especially compared to Superman Returns. He should have been removed after BvS though since that fell way below expectations with the last two Batman films making over a billion dollars

Unfortunately WB was so certain that Batman vs Superman would be a success, they scheduled Justice League to start filming only two weeks after its premiere. By the time it was a critical disaster it was too late to stop the ball rolling.

I fell the same because I understand the characters but then I remember I have no idea how to make a movie

You know what's hilarious about why DC failed and why Marvel succeeded? It's because neither company is in charge of the movies

>we now live in a world where Black Panther is just as popular of a hero as the DC's big 3
10 years ago, I wouldn't have seen this coming but I still approve.

The whole DCEU is a rich tapestry of fuck ups and mishandling. I can't wait for when we learn what really happened behind the scenes ion a few years.

You think that's an achievement? Black Panther is going to outgross Star Wars.

Going by pure cash Black Panther is going to be more popular than Ironman Captain America and Spider-Man, Fucking Spider-Man!

As someone who hated The Last Jedi, I am all in favor of that.