What'd you think of the Punisher, Sup Forums?

What'd you think of the Punisher, Sup Forums?

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I liked it when he FRANKED

>Was expecting Ennis
>Did not get Ennis
>I am disappoint.jpg

White trash garbage

Had its problems, but it was my favorite netflix marvel show by far.

Needed more WUUUUAAAGGGGHHH

>MUH EBUL GUBBAMINT
Never dropped a show harder in my life.

HELL BROKE LOOSE

Fucking sucked. At least Luke Cage and DD2 had the decency of giving you a few good episodes before going to shit.
>starting a Punisher series with "muh government conspiracy" bullshit
>introducing bland characters that take the spotlight for most of the episodes
>Frank himself spends most of the time hiding, not killing, and talking to people he doesn't want to kill
>out-of-place side story about a vet going crazy that loosely connects to the main arc
>Flashback of Frank's badass moment is done so poorly that it honestly looked like a a parody of direct-to-dvd war movies
>burns through 9 episodes before you start to see Frank actually be the fucking Punisher
How hard is it to make a series out of Frank just gunning down street trash?

I would go one step further. Punisher should be all about people getting franked. Everything else needs to serve that. We can have Frank preparing to frank people, Scumbags doing shit to deserve to be franked. Scumbags trying desperately not to get franked.

ANYTHING else should be used super sparingly.

L'me Askyew S'mang

I was horribly dissapointed considering how awesome he was in DareDevil then his own show is just a shitty 24 knockoff instead of him just blowing people the fuck out.

Objectively a terrible show.

Are evil government organizations/agents ever good villains?
From what I've seen they're bland as hell in every action show/movie they feature.

I only enjoyed it when he was franking people. That being said this situation did not occur often enough. However, when he WAS franking people he really franked the hell out of them.

Change a few names and details, and you pretty much described the structure of every Marvel Netflix show. I made it like 4 episodes into Punisher before giving up.

>I would go one step further. Punisher should be all about people getting franked. Everything else needs to serve that. We can have Frank preparing to frank people, Scumbags doing shit to deserve to be franked. Scumbags trying desperately not to get franked.


One would think that this is a simple enough formula to make a fucking Punisher series, but the people in charge seem to be too fucking dumb to get it.

>Set up scumbag (dealers, rapists, criminals, murderers, gangs, mobsters, et-fucking-cetera), show the horrors they inflict on everyday people, to get the audience shocked and hooked.
>set up Frank investigating, getting weapons, equipment, trying to evade capture by authorities, questioning why no one seems to do shit about the street scumbags
>Move on to Frank franking absolutely every scumbag on NYC in several ways.
>Have a few cross over episodes where Daredevil/Luke Cage shows up and tries to stop him.

That's fucking it. Maybe develop a main villian in the background of each episode for the finale.

Worse than his arc in DDs2 by a wide margin, and I have no idea how they'll actually get back to Punishing after that ending. I want to be cautiously hopeful, but experience tells me not to be.

I'm sure that's what most people were expecting, since that's a good portion of Ennis' MAX run. It's pretty accurate to say that the only decent parts of the netflix show was when Frank was franking franks, anyway.

Modern PC culture can't handle the Punisher. Hell they can barely put a decent Batman film together let alone a film where a guy goes around looking for people to murder.

It was boring. We got a solid first episode and then basically nothing of interest happens until the end of episode 12 when Frank starts franking franks, and even then 90% of the franks Frank franks are fucking faceless military contractor dudes. The only criminals he actually kills are the dozen or so guys in the first episode and then the like 2-3 guys he kills when he and Micro steal the cars.

>Are evil government organizations/agents ever good villains?
No, they're boring and interchangeable. People don't read Punisher for the political intrigue - they read it because it's full of fucking weird ass memorable scumbags who get their comeuppance.

>Modern PC culture can't handle the Punisher.

Say that's true, say that's what the execs. of the series seem to think.

Then why the Fuck would they actually introduce the fucking character in the first place, let alone make a wholse series about him? And even worse, it was marketed as "rated R".

Nevermind, I already know the an$wer$ to that. It just bugs me because I love Punisher and think Jon Bernthal is a top notch casting choice (absolutely wasted).

Sometimes I'd like to get my hands on the producers.

Agreed that the first episode was genuinely solid, even after he quit being the Punisher. They should have stuck with that model instead of pushing yet another shitty conspiracy story, since we already got that from fucking Daredevil.

Going from the end of the first episode to all the boring shit that came after just made the boring shit even worse.

It was an acceptable "muh afganistan" action movie of 13 hours. But wasn't Punisher at all. He didn't need a new origin story, he already got one in Daredevil, we didn't need another one, lot less so focused on the navy stuff.

Would you say you want to FRANK them?

I liked it, but I also don't give a shit about the punisher comics.

The vegas shooting happened like a month before launch.

Implying the tone and direction of the series was in any way altered by the Vegas shooting.

In fact, wouldn't it be absolutely fantastic if we get an episode of Punisher where there's a mass shooter on the loose, and the police can't seem to find him, and then Frank does his usual Franking and gets to the motherfucker first?

Tell me that wouldn't sell like hotcakes.

Liked it a lot mainly because of the character interactions. Leiberman-Castle talks were fun as fuck. Even Madani didn't irritate me. I'd put it second after Daredevil

It was ok.
But the whole thing was a conspiracy/revenge thriller.

Punisher was never about revenge, so it never felt right.

I liked it

They said it was a Punisher story, ended up making a Splinter Cell: Conviction adaptation.
Liked it but it could have been so different and actually about Frank

>called The Punisher
>less than 30 minutes of Punishing in the entire show
Yeah, no. It was shit.

I couldn't make it through the first episode. Heard it's bad anyway.

I can't take any more of brooding guys killing crooks in dark alleys from Netflix.

those poors vets at advil were just trying to make a living and frank murder them

Well, it did have a couple of highlights.
For example, it was very pro-veteran and I wasn't expecting that. It wasn't afraid to ask tough questions and explore the issues of people who'd been in combat as well as their relationships with the people they know.
The scenes between Frank and Micro were good. They had a lot of chemistry and you got to see their relationship evolve from antagonistic to mutually beneficial to sympathetic.
But that's about all the positives I can think of. At the show's peak it had 4 overarching narratives that did not connect with each other on any level and when they did there was little to no payoff. .
The cardinal sin was that it was just plain boring. By the 8th time Frank went to go and check on Micro's family it felt like we were just rehashing the same script over and over and over again.
The supporting cast was too large. Frank made a deliberate point of not killing Russo which is completely and utterly antithetical to the Punisher's entire raison d'etre. There was little to no street crime.
Honestly, it should have been called Frank Castle & Friends. That would have been a far more apt description.

Why is it that every Punisher thread always has someone giving their idea of a how a Punisher tv show should be and they're always formulaic and cookie cutter?

About half of Ennis' run is political intrigue either directly or indirectly, and if you add in Fury MAX then about 2/3rds of Punisher MAX is related in some way to political intrigue.

Mother Russia's a good example of how to do it well

The intrigue stuff in MAX is limited to being in the background until it gets near the end - that's how that sort of stuff SHOULD be worked into a Punisher story - a common thread that pulls everything together in the end instead of the fucking entire whole of the plot.

I agree with this.

I have to say that, as much as I hate "my family was murdered because CONSPIRACY" plots, this at least... well, never made me feel like dropping it, but it wasn't good. At least Micro was really good.

S2 must be Frank franking people.

I think the issue is that the world its set in is too grounded in reality. Modern NYC is relatively safe for a large city, heavily gentrified with an army of cops and CCTV everywhere. Daredevil focused on high level organized crime, Jessica Jones is functionally about serial rapist/killer who covers his tracks, Luke Cage about low-level organized crime, and Iron Fist about white-collar crime; basically everything Frank could do against crime has already been covered by the other series, which could have gotten Punisher bad reviews for being the gunslinging rehash show. Suddenly adding in a bunch of street crime for Frank to Frank would both clash with the other shows and raise questions about the actual effectiveness of the other heroes at best, and at worst it'd feel shoe-horned in to give Frank something to do. It'd be the scene of the guy offering Frank kiddy porn on a series-wide scale. As long as Netflix sticks to the formula they've laid out Punisher is simply the odd man out.

It was a badly missed opportunity. In today's political climate, just imagine the outrage and free publicity it would have generated if Frank started off getting involved with New York Mob issues that involved the drug trade.
He Franks a large number of targets including some leadership but is forced to go on the run if he's going to live to fight another day.
His travel takes him from the East Coast to the West and the Season Two set up is his finding the Mexican MS-13 his new fishing grounds.

It would print money. Frank is about one man against long odds, taking partial but meaningful victories and staying ahead of trouble. And Franking people.

Not really. Frank's appearance in the arc is contrived and it, along with the rest of the political stuff, is full of self-righteous indignation.

The intrigue stuff is front in center in the first arc, and is the entire point of Mother Russia and Man of Stone. Arcs 1, 3, 7, and 10 are all political intrigue.

war zone was better

MUHDONNY and forced love drama that has to be in absofuckinglutely everything that anyone does nowadays.

Too much WUAAARRGGHH and not enough Franking.

>Why is it that every Punisher thread always has someone giving their idea of a how a Punisher tv show should be and they're always formulaic and cookie cutter?

Don't fix what's not broken?

Punisher should be formulaic and cookie cutter.

The appealing part of it comes from the individual stories and themes presented through him. Which of course can be political intrigue. Crime drama, politics, even social justice issues can be brought forward in a Punisher story if done right. Even gun control issues could be brought up in a Punisher story.

But at the end of the day, The Punisher Punishes. Judge, Jury and Executioner. Killing Machine. He's a power fantasy. He's not fucking Jason Bourne or Sam Fisher.

The issue is that by making it a formula you've essentially turned Frank's crusade into the least important aspect. It's like with cop shows, arresting the suspect is part and parcel to the genre to the point that subverting it is a major break in expectations so the actual stories are carried on character interactions and drama.

I think Frank's crusade should be presented as never-ending and, in grand scheme of things, even trivial. But he can never stop. His family was just the initial excuse.

Maybe that makes it hard to relate , but that's why you have secondary characters offering their POV. Those should be the people the audience feel closer to. The stories should definitely be carried by different characters and in the end Frank is Frank. He Franks.

>you've essentially turned Frank's crusade into the least important aspect.
I don't think that's what he was saying at all. I mean, there's only so much you can monologue about killing criminals. Usually, each Punisher story opens with it, and then gets on with the business of telling an actual story with Frank and his crusade coming along for the ride, followed by some closing thoughts by Frank from his perspective. It's almost never strictly about:
>"Well, I've Franked literally everyone in this crackhouse, time to move onto the next one."
>"Yep, these guys are dead as fuck. What's next on my Frank-list?"
There's almost always a story that gets woven into Frank's crusade. It's not that it's the least important aspect, it's just that it serves as a backdrop or a vehicle for the story.

It suffered from being so long and the writer's were clearly scrambling for filler to pad out the episode length Netflix gave them.

Aside from that. It's an elseworlds. Frank is younger and far more emotionally honest with his degree of anger and honestly instead of delivering his inner monologue in a calm tone of voice he's shouting it which honestly is what those rants sound like.

>The issue is that by making it a formula you've essentially turned Frank's crusade into the least important aspect.
It IS the least important aspect. Frank himself has acknowledged dozens of times in the comic that he's fully aware that
a) He will never be finished with his task, there will always be more scumbags who appear to fill the void of the ones he takes out and
b) He's far past the point where this was about avenging his family.

ALL I WANTED WAS A DECENT FLIIICK

youtube.com/watch?v=umYvv7K4Z_I

>Expect Punisher show
>Get “muh veterans” bullshit

Defend this.

Impossible, when you could've had this.