>writers who did great work in the 90s and 00s, both veteran (Morrison, Waid, Rucka, Milligan) and up-and-coming (Aaron, Fraction, Lemire, Remender) were churning out pure shit by 2012/3
>storylines and characters created solely for headlines by "big boy" news websites (X is now gay! Y comic features a trans character! F becomes president! N has been a nazi all along!)
>the last remnants of good comics journalism either selling out or retiring
>Lee/Liefeld/McFarlane/Deodato-like art dominating the first half of the decade, amateurish pastel cutesy stick figures dominating the second
>variant cover programs and other shady practices arguably worse than those from the 90s (52 variant covers on JLA #1, holofoil and lenticular shit, Marvel making retailers stock up on unsellable shit to be able to order something they can sell)
>rapid rise of digital content allowing for new models of distribution - companies still cling to selling $5 32-paged brochures filled with ads
>small publishers becoming 90% TV pitch factory
>movie synergy practically destroying continuity
>relaunches out the ass
2010s in comics
>Morrison
>churning out pure shit
Shut up, Millar.
>>writers who did great work in the 90s and 00s, both veteran (Morrison, Waid, Rucka, Milligan) and up-and-coming (Aaron, Fraction, Lemire, Remender) were churning out pure shit by 2012/3
Morrison is as great as ever, and Rucka's WW and Punisher are up there with anything he's ever done, Waid is just writing normal superhero stuff like he's always done (only now, maybe you get triggered by it, but that's on you), Milligan has always been a one trick pony.
>>storylines and characters created solely for headlines by "big boy" news websites (X is now gay! Y comic features a trans character! F becomes president! N has been a nazi all along!)
Yeah, that's true. Even the dumbest MCU loving "geek" normies caught up on the trick.
>>the last remnants of good comics journalism either selling out or retiring
Also true.
>>Lee/Liefeld/McFarlane/Deodato-like art dominating the first half of the decade, amateurish pastel cutesy stick figures dominating the second
Comic book art has OBJECTIVELY been getting better and better with every year, with a global talent pool and top tier talent getting the big bucks on creator owned IPs, though Marvel had a real issue with fill-ins, people just tend to forget the bad art of yesteryear, and cherry pick shit that triggers them from nowadays. If we're trying to be cutesy, I'll take the /good/ webcomic style guys (Gurihuru, guy on Black Canary, guy on Shehulk) working on comics than the hacks doing a bad manga impersonation from the early 00's.
1/2
>>the last remnants of good comics journalism either selling out or retiring
Which ones?
>rapid rise of digital content allowing for new models of distribution - companies still cling to selling $5 32-paged brochures filled with ads
Direct distribution is still there because there's still a market and it'd be dumb to turn money down. The rise of trades, cheaper-per-issue Omnis and digital catalogues give more options for anyone concerned with money (I hate floppies mysef and pirate then collect the trades).
>small publishers becoming 90% TV pitch factory
Conveninently forgetting how many more, how bigger, the top shelf talent they use, and the freedom these "small" publishers offer nowadays. Besides Millaworld I really don't think that's a fair comment anyway. Guys on IDW, Oni, Image and Dark Horse and all the small CJ-bait indie comix guys are just doing their thing, and I applaud them for it.
>movie synergy practically destroying continuity
Continuity has always been a meme, caring about continuity is on par with caring about powerlevels, it's newfag bait. Marvel has always been super loosey goosey, and though I did mourn the old DCU when New52 launched, as always, that problem eventually sorted itself out. Movie synergy just gives you uninspired team books like JLA or Defenders.
>relaunches out the ass
Yeah, that's annoying, especially for the new readers these relaunched /should/ be attracting.
Maybe you're just sick of cape comics mate, read something else for a while, or focus on another one of your hobbies, you can be negative all you want, but in the larger scale of things the industry is running just fine, certainly much better than the early 00's.
2/2
Oh and for:
>Aaron, Fraction, Lemire, Remender
It's kinda disapointing how Aaron's being poised to become the next BMB, both for Marvel and for a early Aaron fan, but he's decent enough in everything they throw him. I was never a big Fraction fan, but his latest stuff is just more of what his fans want, and they love it just as much as Hawkguy or Casanova. In cape comics Lemire had a Milligan-like fall from grace, but his indie work is still great and he might be bouncing back with The Terrifics. And Remender is getting better by the day, his cape comics got fucked over by bad event endings, but his indie books are great.
>Marvel has always been super loosey goosey,
Wrong, they were loose, but not to the extent they've been in the last 8 years (people may argue 18 years, but even the Quesada era was more tight on consistency and continuity compared to now). There's a difference between loose continuity and general inconsistency, back then there was more effort in smoothing things out. Nowadays it's more like "whatever, accept our lack of effort".
Kid Lobotomy is fantastic.
Nah. Marvel has always been "our first 10 years were canon, everything else can fuck off". It's just that things make sense for the first 5~~8 years you're reading, before they go on another cycle and slowly but surely throw everything to the garbage.
...
>Nah. Marvel has always been "our first 10 years were canon, everything else can fuck off".
That's still loose continuity, not whatever the fuck it is Marvel does in the last eight years.
Besides, sliding timescale didn't truly start until the 90's.
>Waid is just writing normal superhero stuff
>Comic book art has OBJECTIVELY been getting better and better with every year
What are you smoking, mon? I want some.
>Talking shit about based Milligan
>arguably worse than those from the 90s
>arguably
I don't think you understand what those "90s covers" were. They weren't "variants". It was just the regular cover with a special production technique, like foil detailing or whatever. The variant shit being forced on retailers is NEW. They didn't do that back in the 90s.
The technical skill of comics artists has declined so far in the last few decades and ESPECIALLY this decade that there is no defending it. You are objectively wrong on that one.
Lemire is still good. Aaron on the other hand has been shit since he is in Marvel.
The bar even among amateurs has risen significantly in the last 15 years. It's just Marvel and DC prioritizing cheap, timely art as they always do. Your average indie and hobby comic (webcomics, mostly) is held to far greater scrutiny.
OP is right. Most of the rest of this thread is full of shit.
>defending webcomic art
>the only thing WORSE than current Marvel art
Its hilarious that you'd call Milligan a one trick pony and not alcoholic lesbian Rucka or Waid. Hell, even Morrison had become a bit of a one trick until recently.
>writers who did great work in the 90s and 00s, both veteran (Morrison, Waid, Rucka, Milligan) and up-and-coming (Aaron, Fraction, Lemire, Remender) were churning out pure shit by 2012/3
Outside Waid and Aaron, pretty much everyone on that list has been pulling out a bunch good comics in recent years, specially Lemire and Remender.
>storylines and characters created solely for headlines by "big boy" news websites (X is now gay! Y comic features a trans character! F becomes president! N has been a nazi all along!)
That has been the case since the Death of Superman.
>the last remnants of good comics journalism either selling out or retiring
Comic book journalism has always been a joke, eg., Wizard Magazine.
>Lee/Liefeld/McFarlane/Deodato-like art dominating the first half of the decade, amateurish pastel cutesy stick figures dominating the second
>amateurish pastel cutesy stick figures dominating the second
It has become more popular, it's far cry from dominating the medium, and there are still many great artists.
>small publishers becoming 90% TV pitch factory
This is a meme, sure there are comic like a lot of Kirkman output that really just feel like tv pitches, but three are also many series that actually make good use of the medium. Also there is nothing wrong with creating a comic and hopping it can become a TV Series as long as it not at the cost of the quality of the comic.
Gurihuru is fucking SHIT if you look past the cute faces.
Absolutely not. Compare the standard comic book art, from non-glamurous titles like Steel and Speedball, to their modern equivalents like Cyborg or Falcon, compare a "superstar" artist like Byrne to our modern Ivan Reis. It's not even close.
Hellblazer is the only thing Milligan has that's even close to Shade, and his lows are really, really low. Waid and Rucka are just standards comic book guys, no fall from grace.
>Comic book art has OBJECTIVELY been getting better and better with every year
You are absolutely right. If we look at 00s almost everywhere is fucking house style with a few exceptions. At least now we have diversity in art styles
Are trying to bait? Enigma, Rogan Gosh, Skin, Skreemer, The Minx, Egypt, Face, Girl, his Animal Man story, X-Statix, hell even his Batman run from the late 80s shits on your precious superhero only writers.
No we don't and the good artists are super slow anyway.
>Point out that your average popular webcomic has gone from sprite comics and putrid doodles with recycled stock backgrounds like VGcatz and Ctrl Alt Del to middling craftsmanship like Paranatural.
>Somehow defending webcomics as a whole.
Pointing out changing standards isn't a defense, you illiterate fuck. Comics like Waspi Square and QC are the outliers these day, relevant due to their longevity. Where you had Sluggy Freelance you're seeing stuff like SSSS. The average reader isn't tolerating the same level of shit art with newer webcomics. It's the same in animation, where something like Kerrigan and the Muffin would be lucky to pass 1k views now. We used to live in a world where people regarded Andrew Dickman as a talented cartoonists. Standards are absolutely shifting.
I'm not saying they're precious, I'm saying they never wrote Red Lanterns and have never been that good to begin with. Good on you for enjoying Milligan though *and I did forget X-Statix*.
Joe Kelly has remained my rock throughout all of this
>Continuity has always been a meme, caring about continuity is on par with caring about powerlevels, it's newfag bait
That's quite literally the only great thing cape fiction has going for it. Powerlevel discussions and the whole "I know more trivia than you" thing are THE selling points of cape fiction and they come directly from continuity.
Newfag bait is calling it modern mythology and other such bull.
That man is so hit or miss its baffling.
At least Busiek never falters.
I mean it's basically apocrypha. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that's how it's treated.
>fucking house style
SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT SHIT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE DEFINITION OF
Nah. Hardcore Morrison wankist and pretty embarassing, but nah. Continuity is only as good as it serves the current story, otherwise you shackle creators down and get boring shit like 90's Superman.
>shilling webcomic shit
>diversity
There's that word again.
*triggered*
Let's be completely honest here, boring shit comes from bad editors and talentless writers.
There's absolutely no need to jump from an extreme to an extreme but I don't need to see fucking Wrecking Crew being beat up and locked up in every second fucking book every two fucking months. That's bad management and lack of imagination and research skills.
I perfectly understand that Neal Adams and JLGL clones are not that good
>N was nazi all along
I don't get why people complain about this. The trick is as old as comics
The term isn't tied to Adams or Garcia-Lopez. Any artist can theoretically become a posterboy for house style but they have to be working and selling enough that editors would want others to imitate them.
Now tell me who you considered the originator for house style in that "If we look at 00s" remark
Because comics used to resolve that stuff in one or two issues, and not drag it out with poor resolution.
On top of that, most of the people complaining were MCU fans that didn't read comics before. Or didn't read a comic before 2000 excepting maybe DKR and Watchmen.
>>Milligan has always been a one trick pony.
What is his Trick?
Neal Adams was far ahead of 95% of the artists working in the industry today
See, I didn't say anything bad about Adams. Only about his clones
The only webcomic mentioned by him in a positive light was Stand Still Stay Silent. And it's actually good, so...
>amerimanga
Other than Ghost Rider and his first few arcs with Wolverine Aaron has been consistently "Marvel good". What do they do to writers over there?
>Morrison
>Pure shit in 12/3
Let's agree to disagree?
They aren't even his clones though... The things Adams did in the 70s, most artist still don't have the creativity to do now.
Actually it's finnish manga
For many similar reasons animation sucks now too, i wish this acursed decade would just fucking end already
The health of the industry is directly proportional to the health of the X-Men. As the X-Men are terminal right now so too is the industry.
worst opinion on this shit board
pencils are much better than in the 90s but much worse than in the 80s
and the coloring may be the worst ever
why is Aaron so bad with Wolverine?
His Mystique, Sabretooth, Sauron etc are all original characters pretty much, as in, no respect to continuity or characterization.
I feel like he doesnt even read the Marvel handbook/Marvel wikis to know about the characters he wants to use.
I love the "soft" look a lot of coloring had in the '80s and the first half o the '90s. But yeah the coloring nowadays is pretty atrocious.
Waid and Cucka were always churning out pure shit.
Aaron is shit when not writing crime.
Lemire's book two work has never been good.
Remender is completely shit.
No the best thing they have for them is fantastic iconic characters and settings. Continuity is a fucking meme.
Not him but it's obviously Hitch.
Yea photoshop coloring is an absolute disaster as is most digital inking over true pencils.
Some of this stuff is self evident but man that first talking point needs to get amended from 2012 to maybe 2016. Morrison put out Nameless, Annihilator The Multivesity and Batman Inc. Rucka had Lazarus and his Run on Punisher and Punisher: Warzone. Waid had a pretty based Daredevil run. Milligan is a faggot. Aaron hasn't made anything as good as Scalped but he's pretty readable. Remender did Uncanny X-force around that time and a bunch of other capeshit and indie stuff that is better than or just as good as Fear Agent. Fraction had The immortal Iron Fist at the end of the decade and Hawkeye at the Marvel Now period. Lemire is still solidly mediocre.
What exactly is Deodato-like art? I've seen that guy re-invent his style at least 5 times since i started reading comics.
This is somebody who clearly got into comics in the 10s you're talking about. The fact that he considers this decade somehow worse than the 00s is proof of that.
How? Their composition is pretty decent, Lineart is really solid, anatomy while stylized is good.
>implying there's anything wrong with Deodato
This decade is actually a lot more worse than any other decade. There isn't even a single good book being printed by the big two right now and bland Image books have taken over the indie market.
>meme means something people say I don't like
>Rucka's WW
Wonder Woman Rebirth is absymal dude
2012 was really such a fucking shit year in general. Damn I miss everything about the world pre 2011
>bland Image books have taken over the indie market
Not really, Image hasn't really affected the indi in any negative way, all the old indi publishers still exist and are pulling out new content, and new ones have popped out like AfterShock Comics, Black Mask Studios and Black Crown.
...
2010s has been best decade since 1980s when it comes to quality. Stop focusing on Big Two and look at those great Image books.
>writers who did great work in the 90s and 00s, both veteran (Morrison, Waid, Rucka, Milligan) and up-and-coming (Aaron, Fraction, Lemire, Remender) were churning out pure shit by 2012/3
What the fuck? Are you telling me that industry that values quantity over quantity and asks writers to churn out 30 pages worth of script per month, every month for years at the time... could result in creative burnout? WHAT A SHOCKING IDEA.
>Great Image books
>storylines and characters created solely for headlines by "big boy" news websites (X is now gay! Y comic features a trans character! F becomes president! N has been a nazi all along!)
That was ALWAYS the case. Lois Lane is now a monkey! Batman is DEAD! Jason Todd is BACK FROM THE DEAD! Etc.
Sensationalism sells, that has been the case since the very beginnings of the medium.
>Lee/Liefeld/McFarlane/Deodato-like art dominating the first half of the decade, amateurish pastel cutesy stick figures dominating the second
I have no fucking idea what you're talking about. The closest thing to the second is the fact that Marvel hired some people who used to do indie comics, and indie comics ALWAYS looked like that, buddy. Sorry that it's in your capeshit now, I guess?
>variant cover programs and other shady practices arguably worse than those from the 90s (52 variant covers on JLA #1, holofoil and lenticular shit, Marvel making retailers stock up on unsellable shit to be able to order something they can sell)
Nah, they're exactly the same as they were in the 90s and in 2000s.
>rapid rise of digital content allowing for new models of distribution - companies still cling to selling $5 32-paged brochures filled with ads
No, it really doesn't. The problem is that digital comics have to compete with online piracy sites like ReadComicOnline and such.
Videogames solved this problem with Steam, because Steam is simply more convenient than torrents. But until digital comic shops won't become more convenient than piracy, digital comics ain't gonna happen.
>movie synergy practically destroying continuity
That happened for like... two years? Three?
And then everyone got their heads out of their asses and this period was never brought up again.
>relaunches out the ass
Good? 50 million years of retcons piled on top of retcons is not good. Comic industry is finally learning from movie industry that regular retcons can bring in new audiences, that's GOOD.
>No, it really doesn't. The problem is that digital comics have to compete with online piracy sites like ReadComicOnline and such.
>Videogames solved this problem with Steam, because Steam is simply more convenient than torrents. But until digital comic shops won't become more convenient than piracy, digital comics ain't gonna happen.
What I mean by that - currently we ask people to pay digitally 4-5 dollars for single issue that they will read in 30 minutes. Then we ask them to manually seek out next issue, and buy it.
If you're trying to read a crossover event in reading order, that might require from them over 60 dollars and hours of work put into research of correct order...
In comparison, webcomics offer thousands of pages for free, comic piracy sites give you the same comics without hassle of paying for EVERY SINGLE ISSUE (you try entering your credit card information 30 times) - and e.g. 30$ videogame will simply provide you with ten hours of entertainment without any of these issues.
Digital comics need to get more convenient. Subscription services are probably better idea than this shit, probably with some sort of social media integration so readers can create their own reading orders, give ratings to each comics, have equivalent of Steam Curators to recommend different comics, and also allow people to download cbrs onto their hard drives no questions asked without ridiculous popups that treat them like thieves - stuff like that.
did you seriously try to say that Liefeld art was a positive thing?
think you just invalidated every opinion you will ever have
>Aftershock
They've gone down after a great start of Ellis and Ennis penned series. Most of their comics now are shit like Animosity, Rough riders and Pestilence
>Black Crown
Recently started
>Black Mask
Worse than Image.
I love when on the internet people read a piece of text without context, and then IMAGINE context that they want.
Here it's clearly the case. OP never said that the Liefeld/Lee/Deodato art was a GOOD thing, but you just imagined that, pulled that right out of your fucking ass.
NUANCE, BITCH! Try to ask yourselves 'why did they write this?" and find different possibilities of why would someone write what they write, instead of bickering like a fuckwad.
Has there been any break out writer in 2010s? Aaron, Snyder and Lemire are from the tail end of the last decade and the first two are wasting themselves on bug two mediocrity, and King seems to be going the same way. Another so called breakout star, Donny Cates, is mediocre.