Why did frank miller hate how robocop 2 ended up? It was a great movie

Why did frank miller hate how robocop 2 ended up? It was a great movie

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You can't be serious.

Why not? It was actually good. Much better then 3 and that reboot

Frank Miller thinks (rightly so) that the war on drugs is fucking stupid and that all the points of Robocop (the struggle of identity in the face of corporate culture, the role of the soul in modern life, ect.) Were glazed over by a cash grab sequel.

Stuff from Miller's script for 2 was used for 3.

Didn't Miller ultimately make his version of RoboCop 2 in a graphic novel?

Yeah, through Avatar.

>Much better then 3 and that reboot
That's literally not saying anything at all.

Getting kicked in the balls is better than 3.

2 is just okay, though. The final fight is somewhat cancelled out by the snotty little mob kid.

I think it's because he did a different ending for the comic. That's it. His ego can't handle someone contradicting him.

I saw this scene as a kid and it messed me up.

Later in life, I rewatched it, and it makes no sense to me how cain is supposed to see his own brain thrown to the ground when it's not connected to the robot. Or how he's supposed to react to it when he's not even in the robot anymore. It's cain's reaction you see on the robot, even though technically cain isn't even in the robot. It's just a weird series of events that adds to the weirdness of the movie itself. I'm sure it was made just to be brutal, but any thought about it makes it kind of hard to take seriously.

Ya know how they say the head is still alive for a while after getting decapitated?

Alternately, his mind was always a computer program, and the organic brain was more like a battery.

>Alternately, his mind was always a computer program, and the organic brain was more like a battery.
This raises more questions rather than less.
Like:
Why not use an actual battery?
Wouldn't that mean that without the brain they could just shove a different power source back in him and he'd be up and running again?

The real question is why someone built a little screen into the robot whose only purpose was to display a tiny, incoherently screaming face of the guy whose brain they used.

If its supposed to be a communication tool, it clearly wasn't working/was all the evidence you needed that the brain was bad.

Yeah, i hated that fucker.
I got the impression some component in the stem wirelessly connected his brain to the machine still

>The real question is why someone built a little screen into the robot whose only purpose was to display a tiny, incoherently screaming face of the guy whose brain they used.

That's another thing that got weird real quick.
Like. The girl in charge of the project could understand him, but nobody else could? He just made weird noises. From a story perspective, it's a great way to make him seem more like an animal. Any level of scrutiny starts to make it seem like a bizarre design choice. Especially when you realize that the screen did literally nothing.

>I got the impression some component in the stem wirelessly connected his brain to the machine still
Based on the technology at the time, it very clearly was connected directly through wires and cables.

It obviously wasn't designed to be used by a maniac druggie. Maybe a normal, level headed brain would have been more coherent.

>Much better then 3
>then 3

Time erases wounds but never the shitty grinning samurai android.

I read it. Instead of Cain, the evil OCP woman uploaded herself into the robot, though she had to share the body with the psychopath murderer they had already put in first.

I shit you not, i heard neca teased a robocop figure with the jetpack from 3. So we may very well get sgt kabuki man robot as a toy one day.

>Maybe a normal, level headed brain would have been more coherent.
They tried that.
It didn't end well:

youtube.com/watch?v=NJIjNs_s2NI

>Why didn't robocop self destruct on resurrection?
Because he was irish catholic and was therefore morally opposed to suicide. That's the reason they gave.

Is there a Cain figure?

I'd rather have Cain than either Jetpack Robocop or Nippon Grinman

Thats a bit different. Thats like...turning them into a literal zombie and making them aware of it.

And Murphy survived because of his proud devotion to the law and desire to protect.

Imagine I'm waving a copy of Miller's "Born Again" at you and that's all the explanation you'd need.

Sadly no, they did make an ed-209 and a battle damaged robocop from 2.

>Thats like...turning them into a literal zombie and making them aware of it.
Not too dissimilar from the original robocop.

>And Murphy survived because of his proud devotion to the law and desire to protect.
Yeah, again, they mention that along with his strong irish-catholic upbringing for why he didn't just kill himself.

I thought it was alright. It wasn't nearly as good as 1, but I can still sit down and enjoy it. The kid mob boss was awful though.

Hot damn, $70 to replace my childhood ED-209 that had blasting caps.

I'll take it.

Yeah, im thinking of buying that ed-209 as well. I saw robocop in the 00s, and while i got both soem vintage figures and a neca one, i never got ed even though he was one of my favorite aspects of those films.

Unpopular Robocop opinions? I'll bite.
Alpha Commando is not that bad. It was pretty dark for what it is, all things considered. The live-action show, Prime Directives and the first cartoon were all worse.

it was like a beheaded snake or something like that i think

3 isn't that bad

I just realized something. Isnt the plot of kaine essentially the same as the original one for mutagen man?

A disembodied brain and organs stuffed into a jar, and needing a drug like substance to survive, in mutagen mans case he needed a constant supply of ooze for his unstable mutation.

The remake isn't that bad if you view it as taking the basic concept and playing it completely straight. But the satire definitely helps.

kaine was an addict but he didn't need it to survive. and he was just brain

The satire and dark comedy are essential parts of what made robocop so great. Hell even the TV show got this. The remake was a bust purely for ignoring this.

but it is. he's into an dvanced prosthetic body but he's still 100% human, that's never questioned

He didnt need it to survive but he was dependent on it. I didnt say it was exact but that their were similarities
Oh, and my unpopular opinion robocop should be redesigned as more grizzley and zombie like, or completly robotic on the outside, and underneath his helmet has an exposed translucent brain case.

Which brings up its own problems.
If he needed that ooze to survive, why the hell would he be squirting it around?

It would be like attaching a hose and gun

For the most part with physical dependency, most of the negative (and sometimes fatal) parts of withdrawal are from the brain not getting the substance in question. You can die from alcohol withdrawal for an example. And almost all the symptoms aren't from the body not receiving alcohol, but the brain. So yes, an addict in some cases (though the drug is fictional) die from not having enough of the drug they're physically dependent on.

>It would be like attaching a hose and gun
Sorry - incomplete thought there.
It would be like attaching a gun with a host to your blood stream and spraying people with your blood as a weapon.

The reboot wasn't that bad, honestly. Three, however, was hot garbage packed into a bleeding abused anus.

Yes its illogical but it was to be as gross as possible to sell toys. I still need to find the rest of my mutagen mans parts. His gun and back tank are in a box somewhere while i have him on my desk. Hes always filled with water.

I always thought it was like his mind existed both in his brain and in the robit.

Why didn't they just erase his memory the same way they erased Murphy's?

In that case why carry the brain around?

Ill give it one thing, it was much better then other reboots or continuations of this decade, everything from nuPPG and TLJ are pure celluloid cancer. Whats bad is i think reboots arent a bad thing, but these are giving them a bad name now.

What was the reasoning they had with using a drug addicted criminal brain for the project?

For some reason they decided that normal people brain were not compatible with the project, so they intentionally went with criminal brains

They could control him easier by promising more drugs. In theory.

>For some reason they decided that normal people brain were not compatible with the project
Its because everyone else they picked went insane or killed themselves
youtu.be/HOBGPA2KguQ

Have to admit, the initial scene seemed like they were throwing in a political message about drones in warfare, but those idiots made their choice to rush the robotic death machines with AKs and kitchen knives.

Maybe it mirrored his lower-level brain functions for better reaction time.

Maybe, but then, without his brain there, it has nothing to mirror.

By mirrored, I mean having a duplicate set of reactions running in the silicon. I dunno, man. I don't remember a lot from 2.

I had to check the wikipedia because it's been so long.

Cain and Murphy's brains are basically some wetware plugged into an AI, and shortcutting a lot of the BS that you'd need to build up with an AI.

The downside is that the computer thinks it really is Murphy, even though Murphy's dead. It's just Murphy's brain plugged into the computer like a hard drive.

I know John Arcudi wrote a Robocop comic. Is it any good? Arcudi can be a mixed bag.

But again, without the brain, one would assume that would mean the thing stops working, yeah?

They kept RoboCop's face to humanize him and make him an easier product to sell. Also it was the only thing not pulled by gunfire

I know why they kept it, but if i were in charge id make him have either a more rotten zombie face underneath a mask or no face at all. Its just my personal preference on the design, probably because i grew up reading alot of things macfarlane wrote and owned alot of spawn figures.

This. Christ did anyone in this thread actually watch the films?

Murphy was the first one to not go batshit insane and arguably that was because of his sense of duty grounding him and he had the good fortune to only have hazy memories

cain started to scream and move incoherently when he ripped his brain out

But that makes no sense for the story. That's not an unpopular opinion, it's a wrong one

The end all part of all this is the part where he reacts to seeing it get thrown off the building. The screen reacts in a very, "oh no!" kind of fashion.

But if the screen is just a display of what he's thinking, how can it still be working if there's no brain for it to read?

This

>But that makes no sense for the story.
How, he doesnt need a human like face to go through the emotional and exsistential crises he has in the films
That's not an unpopular opinion, it's a wrong one
No opinions are wrong ;^)

The reboot was bad because everyone in the damn thing was legally retarded.
>Lets download the entire police database into this guys brain while I constantly yell out "I don't know what will happen, nobody has done this before."
>Oops! His brain shutdown. And the press conference is in 15 minutes.
>But what if I control him with the cybernetics and pass it off as Alex Murphy. Delightfully Devilish, Seymour.
>Then proceeds to walk him right past his own family and stares like a robot at the mayor, not acting like a human at all
>luckily there is a criminal in the audience so nobody notices the lobotomized cop they were parading around.
>then they get surprised when his wife goes to the media

They could not find a normal person someone who could handle it and figured a psychopath could handle it better but be impossible to control without something like addiction keeping it in line.

Because it didn't work with Murphy, that was one of the things they wanted to fix, given how he was able to sorta get around his program once he started remembering. With Cain they wanted him to remain a druggy, so they could use the drugs to control him, which to be fair worked the first time, when he killed all those people.

Robocop 2 had my favorite scene of the trilogy with all the interest groups messing with Murphy's programming and he goes around spouting gibberish and ends up shooting a cigarette out of a random guy's mouth

Like said, there's an AI and a brain. AI needs the brain to function at full capacity, but it doesn't need it to exist from second to second.

dude, you should rewatch it, as soon as he pulls out the brain cain's gone and the robot goes crazy. the screen reacts for a moment but you can tell is to make it more dramatic

So many contradicting directives controlling his actions that the only time he can attempt arrest is when the perp is already dead.

First
>No opinions are wrong
Fuck you, you post modernist scum

Second
>He doesn't need a human like face to feel

That's not my point. He was left with a human face so the audience, and the people of Detroit, could empathize with him. Not only is this good sense for police as being faceless makes it very easy for people to dehumanize you and coving your face is considered a very bad idea when policing, scientifically, BUT-

It's also part of the films comment. They are SELLING his humanity. They are making not only him but the concept of him a product. It's part of the films message and it is lost with your stupid idea.

Go to bed Todd, you can't write and never could

The remake got into this.

Mainly Murphy sucked as Robocop without being fully automated, but the project was sold as 'human inside of a robot.' So Proto-OCP lied and told everyone the fully automated Robocop WAS Murphy.

Makes the most sense I suppose.
In this case, I would question why not let the thing work at partial capacity with the AI since leaving the brain in there very quickly turned into a disaster.

>the screen reacts for a moment but you can tell is to make it more dramatic
Considering the context of the film, this makes more sense; the original movie had a enough self awareness to realize it shouldn't be scrutinized too heavily.

This. Robocop was a dark comedy action flick

youtube.com/watch?v=A9l9wxGFl4k

youtube.com/watch?v=7cDgbf23u_E

>robot murders a sharholder
>*sigh* "Dick... I'm very disappointed"
every
time

Friendly reminder that Irvin Kershner directed Robocop 2 AND Lawrence Kasdan co-wrote The Force Awakens. Who was responsible for The Empire Strikes Back being so great again?

Then you can have a synthetic face at first that he later pulls off because he doesnt want a sick mockery of his old face on him, thereby making him look like some cybernetic monster.
empire is overrated and is nothing but boring filler and relationship drama shit

>Much better then 3
There are loads of movies better than 3 it's not that hard of a task to accomplish.

>empire is overrated and is nothing but boring filler and relationship drama shit
I somewhat agree, but popular opinion is that ESB is good.
I'm trying to change hearts and minds about Lucas.

>Then you can have a synthetic face at first that he later pulls off

>But duuudde it would be so cool if RoboCop had like a zombie skeleton face bro

Fucking Christ, go to bed MacFarlane. Your art is shit and juvenile

>Empire is bad cause MUH FILLER

Character building is actually important for story telling and the new star wars films wouldn't be quite so fucking ass if they had taken some time to do it

Why are there so many plebs here. Why am i forced to share life with you.

I bet you wanted more ewoks

the reboot was a boring cash grab that had nothing that made the original great, like the Total Recall reboot. It's not bad per se, but its dull and forgettable

>le ebin skeleton face is more disturbing than having what's left of the man he was sold as a product

www.i-mockery.com/comics/longbox24/default.php

It's actually one of the better Dark Horse RoboCop stories.

Don't forget:
>We need a human hand to pull the trigger
>We'll follow the exact letter of the law
>Let's not try to protect an exposed vital limb or even cover it.

Funny how well it predicted and satirized 3 and the TV show before they even came out, isn't it?

WHERE. IS. CAIN? WHERE IS CAIN?!

Character building for bad characters sucks, thats why the new movies suck because they focus too much on rey. I care more for the bounty hunters or aliens in star wars rather then the whiney farm boy and his incest sister who has as much of a personality as plank from EE&E.

His memories were stored in hard drives, but his free will and conscious self was on his brain.
In other words, he was dual boot-able.

That's one of the few bits from Miller's script they actually used.

>RoboCop without the dark comedy or satire
Way to show your shit taste Boco, that stuff was the best part about the original and removing it just leaves you with a bland scifi action movie.

Those nose piercings are disgusting.

If you more money you'd be that guy who kept insisting that Superman MUST fight a giant spider.

A pointless change that makes no sense for someone in charge of designing Robocop to do. I am glad that you are not in charge.

It's just a fragment of himself running off ram.

It's actually a pretty bullshit reason given when Robocop first came online he wasn't really Murphy. He was running on pure programming. It took quite a bit to stir the remnants of Murphy back to action. The entire point of the first Robocop was him finally getting to that moment where at the end, when asked his name, he replies, "Murphy."

Their problem was in not going back to resurrecting people who had been totally fucked up in the line of duty. Maybe if they had more brain damage like Murph suffered they'd ironically be less crazy. For some reason they didn't go back to trying to make cyborg automatons and tried to retain the humanity, which also seems to have been the problem. Murphy came back slowly and had to fight for the existence he has, so of course he clings to it.

Or just take the volunteer and have the scientists work him over with some baseball bats and then shoot him in the head, whatever works. Not really sure how much brain damage Murphy has but from the film it's a good bet some of his brain had to be replaced with tech.

youtube.com/watch?v=5FcTzH6A4a4

The movie is actually kinda crap aside from the great final act. Same as Predator 2.

>Much better then 3 and that reboot
Faint praise.