What's the difference between Moore's magic and Morrison's magic?

What's the difference between Moore's magic and Morrison's magic?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy#Core_concepts
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Moore isn’t a real person

Sorcery vs. Hexes

>even has Grant's scar
Nice

this

Faggots, he is an old british tale created to scare manchilds and make the go to bed early

Compared to Moore Morrison is a mere observer.

Not a single thing. They do the exact same shit: Nothing.

Because Magic isn't real, dumbass.

Where do you come from?

Moore drives powerfully focused, hypnotically detailed thought forms into the collective unconscious, which is why you saw all those Scientology protesters wearing V for Vendetta masks or why the ironic smiley face exploded in popularity.
Morrison in contrast is less intense, less direct, and more cerebral. His magic operates through abstraction and the blurring of boundaries so that the world is more subtly redirected towards the futures he wants e.g. influencing the emergence of the late 90s / early 2000s Matrix aesthetic and associated philosophical ideas (seeing reality more like a simulation or a game).

Bunch of nonsense.

>MAGIC ISN'T REAL

I see we have a resident of Berenstain universe, here.

homo vs hetero magic (not necessarily in that order)

Moore uses ceremonial magic, Morrsison does chaos magic.

Prove it. Go on, prove that magic does jack shit.

Not my fault you can't figure out magic. It's OK, some people just don't get it, like the ones who can't figure out how to see the 3D images in magic eye pics.

Hocus Pocus and sheeeit.

You just sent your thoughts to the other side of the planet in an instant using a metal box that gets information out of you by leading you to believe you're manipulating a hallucinatory machine with illusory buttons and windows made out of light. So fuck off, idiot.

Hey kid, is that way.

I know computers are hard to understand, but magic is not the reason why they work, buddy.

Just because there's an explanation doesn't make something not magic.
We live in a world where things like electricity, fire, psilocybin, and programming languages are magic. If we were in some Tolkien-esque world you'd be complaining about Sauron not having magic because he used rings.
No matter what a world has everyone gets used to it and stops noticing the magic. Magicians are people who continue noticing.

>Just because there's an explanation doesn't make something not magic.

So you are telling me if Dumbass McFuck invented a hover board, it wouldn't be because of all his studies, but because he said Abracadabra? Fuck off.

moore seems benevolent, morrison seems self centered

Wizards study too, retard. Why do you think they're all old, hungry skelly mode men with disheveled grey hair and beards? They obviously spend all their time grinding on esoteric literature to learn how to do magic. Newton and Tesla were clearly magicians.

>All his stories involve rape
>Benevolent

>Wizards study too, retard.

Harry Potter was just a book, dumbass.

Wrong, wizard school is an archetype, Harry Potter and other stories participate in its Platonic Form.

Well, i'm right here waiting for you to prove that shit.

Prove what? Are you arguing against the existence of archetypes now? Or electricity?

Druidry vs Chaos Magic

And now you are switching the argument for your sake.

Fuck off, cunt. Magic isn't real and never will be.

t. brainlet from Berenstain universe

>And now you are switching the argument for your sake.
>Misdirection
>Magic is real Q.E.D.

Explain why electricity isn't magic.
It's one of the four fundamental forces of the entire universe (electromagnetism), strikes people dead from the sky, and can be harnessed to animate lifeless metal husks.

Calm down Eridan

Or what about turning lead into gold?
That was considered impossible alchemical magic once. Now it can be done. Does the fact it can be done make it no longer count as magic?

Who did Grant Morrison vore?

Peter Dinklage?

Yes

Its possible but with multiple stone of gold equivalent to turn a couple atoms, the goal of it you insufferable LARPer was to cheaply turn lead into gold for profit. Thats not magic, its not even alchemical. Actually read some fucking source material and background regarding magic instead of skimming the Diskworld wiki page

>Does the fact it can be done make it no longer count as magic?
absolutely. just for fun's sake, could you define "magic" for me?

You're really nitpicking.
It was never just about making a profit. Turning lead into gold was about doing something extraordinary, and it's been done now. The fact you can't get rich off of it doesn't make it any less a realization of what was once considered magic.
>Yes
Then that's a retarded definition of magic since you're saying it's either non-existent or else it doesn't count.
>could you define "magic" for me?
An extraordinary power or influence / sufficiently advanced technology.
Non-magic == Mundane tasks anyone can do on their own with their bare hands in a straightforward way, like building a hut, or getting food from an animal you bludgeon to death with a rock.
Magic == Exactly those things tasks which would be called magic if you showed it to someone thousands of years in the past (or even just hundreds of years).
Mathematics, physics, and programming are really just those forms of magic that actually work, as opposed to chanting, rain dances, or voodoo dolls.

No it was the purpose, magic historically has been very purpose driven and instead of nitpicking you seem to just expand everything as magic. Which means you arent only stupid, you are smug about it.

>In this thread nobody has read anthropological definitions of magic or even Moore's or Morrison's own concepts of magic.
Magic is a collection of practices that bear a family resemblances to each other predominantly focusing on inner mental states over an empirical observation of the world around it. Some common themes are:
- Propriatory Magic: You try to appease some spirit or immaterial entity to get your goal.
- Sympathetic Magic: A belief that mental association between two objects can lead to a causal effect between the two.
- A Focus on Internal States of Consciousness: You try to cultivate a state of gnosis or some other mystical state. You use song, poetry or some other way of evoking emotions.
- Religious: Most magic is heavily religious in nature or basically is religion.

>Voodoo Dolls
Sympathetic magic: is a mental association and not an empirically observed physical one.
>Rain Dances
Sympathetic magic: is a mental association and not an empirically observed physical one.
>Chanting
Ritual magic: aims to change mental states and not the world around you
>Mathematics
Completely unrelated. Mathematics is pure logic not necessarily related to physical world around you. Math is not only about what is aesthetically beautiful but about what is logically consistent.
>Physics
Physics is empirically verified mathematical explanations of how the world works. Nothing to do with inner mental states.
>Programming
Just no.

>expand everything as magic
I already preempted your argument here by mentioning what isn't magic:
>magic historically has been very purpose driven
Everything people do is purpose driven, that has nothing to do with the fact turning lead into gold was never just about making a profit. If it were there wouldn't be the whole very well documented other layer to alchemy you're missing which is it was meant to represent a more general ideal of transmuting the base and common into the perfect and sublime. Here, have the two seconds of wikipedia reading material you could've looked up before posting:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy#Core_concepts
>In the eyes of a variety of esoteric and Hermetic practitioners, alchemy is fundamentally spiritual.
>Voodoo Dolls
>Sympathetic magic: is a mental association and not an empirically observed physical one.
Dolls aren't mental. You can easily make an empirical study disproving the claim they have an effect. Just take a doll, wrap someone's hair around it, stick a needle in the doll, and observe that the person the hair belonged to hasn't been physically harmed.
>Rain dances
>Sympathetic magic: is a mental association and not an empirically observed physical one.
Dancing isn't mental either, you can disprove the claim they have an effect with an empirical study too. How are you getting this idea these things aren't physical when they clearly are?
>Chanting
>Ritual magic: aims to change mental states and not the world around you
1) No, maybe some specific variety of chanting is meant to change mental states but you definitely can't say that's what all chanting is for. And no, mental states aren't distinct from the world around you, they're physical phenomena too. You can observe brain activity, and you absolutely can test how chanting (in the case where it alleged to change mental states) compares to people who ingested psychoactive chemicals and controls. (Part 1)

You mentioned what isnt magic as what you dont understand, which is not only egotistical but wrong.

(Part 2) Mathematics and physics are languages that can be used to facilitate extraordinary feats like destroying entire cities in an instant or putting people on the moon, both of which would easily be considered magic a few hundred years ago and only doesn't seem like magic because it's been done now and there are explanations for how it can be done.
>Nothing to do with inner mental states.
There's no such thing as "inner mental states." Mental states are physical phenomena as much as any other physical phenomena. And that's completely irrelevant to boot, magic isn't defined as "changing mental states" by any definition I'm aware of.
>Programming
Using language as a way of orchestrating abstract ideas in a way that results in real world effects is definitely magic. Again, you're just used to it existing now so you take it for granted. People hundreds of years ago would call it magic. The fact it can all be explained doesn't make it stop being magic, plenty of fantasy stories with magic also have elaborate explicable systems that dictate how and why their world's magic works.
No, I mentioned what isn't magic as what you understand really well. Do you not understand how to make a hut or pick up a rock?

>Voodoo Dolls aren't sympathetic magic

I didn't say they aren't sympathetic magic, I said they aren't mental and you can do tests on them to disprove the claim they're having a specific sort of influence on someone like physical harm.

several pounds of hair

>he doesn't understand the magic of bludgeoning

Thats dumber than a brick of shit, your example of programming exemplifies this. Its a language for machines to decide one or zero, its not magic because you cant grasp the concept of a lightswitch.

Smarter people than you see programming as magic.
>People create programs to direct processes. In effect, we conjure the spirits of the computer with our spells. A computational process is indeed much like a sorcerer's idea of a spirit. It cannot be seen or touched. It is not composed of matter at all. However, it is very real. It can perform intellectual work. It can answer questions. It can affect the world by disbursing money at a bank or by controlling a robot arm in a factory. The programs we use to conjure processes are like a sorcerer's spells.
>— Abelson, Sussman & Sussman; SICP, Chapter 1
I don't care how much you shit on it as just 1s and 0s, learning how to program and making a career out of it a decade ago was magical as fuck. I went from being a supermarket wage slave to getting to create neat abstract processes that actually matter and get me paid.

that's a metaphor, and something feeling good is also not magic

No thats still fucking stupid and just because people who are smart in one area dont understand something doesnt mean its magic is you decide to obscure it in flowery metaphor. I'm not shitting on it, I'm shitting on you and your cargo cult retardation.

>something feeling good is also not magic
It's not about feeling good, it's about using what are pretty well exactly what ancient people had in mind as magic spells and getting to have that be an actual salaried craft. The "metaphor" complaint is a non-argument, the only reason to say it isn't literally magic is because we're used to it and can explain how it works to varying degrees of comprehensiveness. You're still writing in an esoteric / unspoken language. You're still working on an abstract and therefore invisible structure. And you're still producing real world results through your use of abstract language and structure like orchestrating home automation device behavior or facilitating inventory orders.
I think you're missing the point that ancient people had a concept of magic which in part included the idea of using language as a way to make extraordinary things happen with more power than they could exert with their hands in a direct way. And that's *exactly* what modern programming allows for.
I'm telling you guys, if you were somehow born into a stereotypical fantasy setting you would be claiming the same shit there about their wizards not having real magic because they learned it from books and because "it's all just runes."

Thats not magic, thats you not understanding basic concepts and choosing not to understand it further, instead just making an ass of yourself.

I already said there's no requirement that something has to not be understandable if it's magic.
Most concepts of magic have explanations, you're just thinking of that "It's magic, I ain't gotta explain shit" meme.

Something is not magic because you deem it impressive enough. A hut you claim isn't so but requires intensive knowlege of everything from mechanical properties to botany to geology to make even a simple one if you plan on using it more than a couple weeks.

People in the past for the most part werent rock smashing primitives who would suffer a breakdown if presented modern tech, they would be curious and if given a good teacher understand it readily.