Would we win a trade war against China?

plz give facts and figures

Other urls found in this thread:

bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-06/clsa-sees-china-bad-loan-epidemic-with-losses-over-1-trillion
fiatleak.com/).
mckinsey.com/business-functions/strategy-and-corporate-finance/our-insights/a-truer-picture-of-chinas-export-machine
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

no
mao v2 is going to fuck you up

>would we win a trade war against a faux economy

Easily, 18% of their exports go to the US. If there were a trade war their banking system would collapse, their real estate bubble would explode beyond recovery, they would be fucked hardcore in other words. If they dumped their dollar holdings, big deal, then they have the problem of their currency strengthening against the dollar. They're holding no cards, Trump was right all along that US politicians make bad deals and have bad experience. Any of the doom gloom scenarios are laughable, we could literally smack China around and demand a lot from them if need be.

China produces 8 times more steel than the USA. And twice as many vehicles. How is any of that fake?

of course their exports to us would suffer but nothing in china would collapse. Their banking system is more sound than our banking system.

yes, US holds all the cards, china would not be where it was without the US commercial market.. china through it's clever tactics and buying off politicians willing to sell out the US, has rebuilt itself with US intellectual property and utilizing its commerce market where made in america became made in china..

"would the US win a trade war against china" assuming there's a trade war which is not in anyones interest.. but if US went isolationistic and started making only for american market china would be fucked.. But that's not what it's about..

How can you even be such a child to not understand who holds the cards when browsing pol, it has always been like this for most modern things.. europeans do something, asians replicate or improve.. asians have only higher iq on average in some cases because of discipline.. it's european > asian > everyone else. And asians also have great distinctions of who perform better.. that should not be lumped together, as europeans have distinctions in this so do asians.

this is either some kind of high-level trolling or you're super retarded

Without the US commercial market and the gradual sellout of intellectual property and the fiddling with currency devaluation to bring orders to chinese corporations instead of the US etc. China would not be where it is today, even today it's still struggling because of overpopulation.. there's no need to leave china hanging but a smooth transition towards more US geared that they understand, If US is more prosperous china has more market but they need to start manufacturing more for themselves aswell, as do the US.. china got a good headstart in basically ass raping the US.. now build slowly towards scaling their society since the time of the "raping" of the US is about to be over.. and a more fair trade of ways is about to be happening. Which is really better for china and for the US.. in all it is a net positive.. If US would have to crash, china would not do so well by itself, and china knows this also which is why they like trump.

A bit of feng shuei to arrange the furniture in a more appropriate fashion from "assrape" to ok let's get along a bit more eloquently.. with mutual respect for both.

>high level trolling
Horribruh dispray..

Oh i almost forgot, it's türkei.. not china, they seem quite familiar i wonder how islam and communism and judaism are related in destroying nations and good people who might have otherwise done better.. top kek..

Should china have remained communist and not through this "opportunity" granted by corrupt politicians it would still be shit tier, but it is doing quite well thanks to adopting new ideas..

So your "evidence" for winning a trade war against china is that whites are superior to asians?

Somehow, i am not comforted by this argument.

>only 8x more steel
>steel
>w a population of 1.34 bil
>vs the USA's 311 mil
>what are chinese ghost cities
>what else does china produce

>OP asks about China
>Germany and Danmark goes at it.

Are you insane? They fund factories with loans, one on top of another hoping they will pan out one day, they usually don't or keep selling below wholesale to foreign markets hoping to bust other factories around the world. The bad loans in China are at an all time high at 1.6tril yuans. One little hiccup and their real estate prices collapse and their banks. They can't even dump their dollar holdings, like I said before, it'll add value to their currency if they do and their exports would become way more expensive.

finance fag here

Yes, their people fail to be a consumer and producer market, they will have so much excess supply the prices will reduce to zero. Asain save so much.

Americans are out of work, making factories here will only strengthen their economic resolve, also remember in the case of labor shortages work visas.

if america calls the dogs, and other economies boycott/ tarrif china (they will, becuz muh aliance, muh protection from america) they will have more than an economic crisis, they will have the state crumble piece by piece.

africa doesn't have the money to pruchase, only South america, and the Middle east are decent enough purchasers.

whats most likely is

china and middle east becoem friends (oil for goods)

america with its new found oil can suppy itself (coupled with exports from canada) Russian and america in their new found love can find a way to keep the energy in europe, leaving africa as the battle ground.

tl;dr: china needs buyers more than america can't put up their own factories. also ME will support china.

>So your "evidence" for winning a trade war against china is that whites are superior to asians?

Who holds the cards, how much of us commercial product is made in china.. make that made in america again.. you see who holds the cards..

Chinas export to the US is a massive part of what drives their wealth you idiot, aswell as siphoning off the intellectual property.. And is why you have 500 billion trade deficit with china anually and why there's very little made in america comparatively.. Where do you think the money is flowing..

Its impossible at this point. The U.S currency is actually very weak and overvalued. Our homeownership rate is down but home value is up, which indicates our real estate is overvalued. We are in a debt bubble, they say we are in 18 Trillion worth of debt, but if you factor in entitlements and liability spending that figure jumps to over 100 Trillion. The "recovery" was a sham, as most banks have actually put themselves in more debt because of cheap 0 interest money. Meanwhile China is buying a whole lot of gold, cause they can see the U.S and Euro collapse, and will probably be looking to back their currency with it. Many economies such as Australia, several african countries, emerging southeast asian countries, India, Brazil, and Japan are dependent on Chinese exports--they have options to turn to in the event of a trade war, U.S doesn't. For better or worse, they have already won

>"what else does china produce"
everything you enjoy

>Americans are out of work, making factories here will only strengthen their economic resolve, also remember in the case of labor shortages work visas.

manufacture in US whilst making chinese tarifs, you avoid to compete on wage factor.. duh..

chinese is already putting tarifs on US products whilst doing slave labour to outcompete american companies you fucking imbicil.. is this is what is called a finance fag in america no wonder you're in trouble..

S H A R T

Oh.. a leaf.. haha..

>Are you insane? They fund factories with loans
How do you think our businesses are funded? with cold hard cash?

>The bad loans in China are at an all time high at 1.6tril yuans
1.6 trillion is one weeks worth of GDP for China. Literally.

>their real estate prices collapse
They won't because real estate in China isn't bought on 5% down, it is usually 70-100% cash purchase.

>and their banks will collapse
again, their banks have more gold and foreign reserves than our banks and they are way under-leveraged

I am just genuinely worried about our economy and really don't want another recession because i'm just getting settled into my career

Yes. They need us and we dont need them. Factories are already moving to other shitholes to cut costs

This. They hold dollars to weaken their currency, steal intellectual property and their bad loans is much worse than what is officially published.

>Chinese banks’ bad loans are at least nine times bigger than official numbers indicate, an “epidemic” that points to potential losses of more than $1 trillion, according to an assessment by brokerage CLSA Ltd.
>Nonperforming loans stood at 15 percent to 19 percent of outstanding credit last year, Francis Cheung, the firm’s head of China and Hong Kong strategy, said in Hong Kong on Friday. That compares with the official 1.67 percent.
US currency weak and overvalued? Oh really? That's why the Chinese buy Dollars to weaken their currency to compete in global markets.
If you factor liabilities that take 50yrs to take hold yea, our debt is much higher, but that debt liability you add wont come calling in one shot, nice try though.

Your flat out maing stuff up. Chinese dont buy real estate with cash. They use loans also.

By doing this you would also force the chinese to a) broaden their own consumer market to constitute for the loss b) make them pay their workers a better wage.. win win.. right now with compete on wages they win they tax you.. let them export to you and outcompete your own competition by driving down their own wages (sweatshops) to produce products for less cost for the consumer market who then goes out and buys and short term "woah it's cheaper" long term.. "where my job and wages gone"..

china hasn't lost a trade war since Genghis Khan

There's $1tril in bad loans floating around in China, forget the published bad loan 1.6tril yuans.

bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-06/clsa-sees-china-bad-loan-epidemic-with-losses-over-1-trillion
Our businesses don't have the strategy of selling below wholesale to compete like China.

Daily reminder to take the ultimate red pill ASAP

Western culture has failed, it got cucked.

The only effective cultural systems against degeneracy seem to be the Confucian and the Islamic.

Either Europe will be ismalized or we learn from the Confucian overlords the true way of life.

I, for one, opt for the latter.

欢迎来到欧洲,我的中国朋友。

The Chinese bought U.S dollars because of a short squeeze, they had bet on the dollar going down, but it didn't because they underestimated the fear people had of the Euro, therefore to compensate their losses they decided to back the U.S dollar. But you can already see signs of that reversing--they are no longer financing our debts and are reversing their holdings. The U.S currency is backed by nothing and our policies for the past 40 or so years has been to simply print more money and fuck around with interest rates to finance our deficit spending. It's gonna come back to bite our ass.

the overpopulation alone is something to be worried about. the chinese middle class standard of living is rising and thats going to devalue our own. china has has soviet like growth since the 90s and eventually asia will dominate the world
>rip burgers

sorry here are some facts :
USA DEBT TO GDP : 104 %
China Debt to GDP : 40%
china holds 95% of all bitcoin trades in the world on its territory (check this mapfiatleak.com/). That means if USD goes to shit, they got a more secure and less traceable money to save them.

>corrupt politicians got cucked by chinese and sold it to the people as a good idea
>we should all be chinese now
Chinese wouldn't be shit without what european ancestry creates for them to exploit.. and they know this very well, they might build and expand on those things via disiprine.. but that's as far as the cookie crumbles.. They know who they need.. We stood on the shoulders of titans and they raped the US of its intellectual wealth and sold it for trinkets and now you buffoons act as if they invented it.. They would be stuck in stagnation were it not for that.. ofcourse we need to amicably do a transition in a way that respect both parties, but this bullshit has got to go..

>we should be islamic or confucian now
Neither of them create anything they take advantage and subjugate things already there. They don't create..

or did you forget that senpai?

It's like someone robbing a very advanced civilization and then when those who made it that way are gone.. they degrade and after a while they don't even understand wtf how did that even work again. Let alone how to build on it.

Why would their rising middle class bother me? Good for them. Energy is plentiful.

Funny how they have billions of people but nothing of worth ever origonates there.

disgusting pig

they well know that, as the muslims kept a few vaunted scholar dhimmis around and scientists and various other things.. they also know in similar way that what they pilfer is not theirs and if they want to truly harness it they need those people around.

>disgusting pig..
Atleast my water is less disgusting than yours.

You're delusional. History shows us, that at one point China was the cultural and scientific capital of the world, not Europe. Just because you live in a time where European ideas have flourished does not mean it is the superior ideal. The fact is that western society is on its knees and China will emerge as the next superpower. Tech. entrepreneurs are already plotting their move to China, not Western countries. Get your head out of your ass.

>china was the cultural and scientific capital of the world
Give me a date

some vegan dude said if china started eating meat like the west we would have to go vegan

You're like a leaf in the wind, you go to wherever the direction goes, even if those to the direction it goes take undue advantage of things that rightfully did not belong to them.. you just go with them and say "oh they created everything now, just accept it".. haha good luck!

Trade and real estate have reached saturation in China, you have no idea what you're talking about.
You stupid bastard, market cap of bitcoin is at 12bil a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things.

Zhou dynasty (1050-221 B.C).
Han Dynasty (206B.C-220A.D)

Stop being a faggot, we all know pretty well that both gonna be losers and desu that would make me happy

list of achievements now do a comparison to western civilization and what they also do in the meantime.

>finite resources
with shear population the demand for good in asia will be a heavy burden in the future. with the reclining birth rate in the west and chinas invesent into africa we are simply not going to be able to compete
>"m-muh make america g-great again"
KEK

Yes because the consumer controls the demand

If the world stopped buying junk from the chinks, their whole country would starve to death in a matter of weeks.
But the kikes and globalists just can't stop sucking that yellow cuck to put the white man out of work
.

Not when the consumer gets its buying power from debt.

>goods*

and you didnt type that on a keyboard from china, you are not reading it on a monitor from china, the packed didnt go through routers made in china and its all not powered by a nuclear reactor US bought from china.

Nah the dynasties of china fell like they now butcher dogs as an affront to their chinese emperors of the past.. like the pekinese it was slaughtered because the emperors of the past loved them. How you treat animals show much of how you are as a nation of your constitution.

What is china now.. feeding half of its population massive pollution problems, only in the big beautiful chinese cities are things well.. paid for by ripping off who.. the US in trade deals and intellectual property even assault weapons and other things are almost direct replicas.. gee i wonder where they got those from *cough* clinton *cough*..

Why are the rich or upper middle class chinese buying homes in foreign cities as much as possible? Why are they all trying to get their cash out of the country?

They need to begin to scale, to begin to pay their workers more fair wages, that can only happen with stabilization with trade deals to drive away how they outcompete US companies with lower wages for their workers as an example whilst taxing US exports. So that they rob businesses from US and others to go produce there and earn good for them and horrible for others.

Sorry wont do that cause it would take too long, but you can look up for yourself and decide.

Ah.. that's amazing, why do they have to rip off so much of US and european intellectual property then.. something must be somewhat amiss!

You look at robbing as if it's a bad thing in international context. The U.S has done the same thing for much of it's history. It is what is needed to be done in order to survive.

What you don't get you fucking moron is that india and china and other places.. the reason they have low wages is a) too many children b) they are allowed to outcompete based on wages, which is very low wages for them, and lack of jobs for you.. Because of an askew trade relationship.. few get rich in their neck of woods, the coorporations keep them happy and the people live in shit.. And they siphon gradually the jobs and companies out of 1st world countries to the point where you are almost having to follow suit unless something is done to rectify it.. and uplift them AND yourselves.. at the same time..

We would win a trade war, but it would piss a lot of people off. Everyone says we will go into a recession, but with possibly millions of new jobs added because of return of production, it wouldn't last that long. China would be furious because they would be most affected by it. (((YouKnowWho)))) Doesn't want you to know this.

Where instead it was to you to make sure that agreements were sound.. and your workers paid well, and not allow them to do these things, so that they would also have to gradually scale and uplift their people and also have far less children in general to stabilize situation.. You're digging a hole for yourselves and for future generations for all over the world by being ignorant about this.. you allow them to compete on wages whilst giving you tarifs.. you create this poverty.. you do nothing about them having too many kids, you dig the hole much deeper.. sooner or later when it comes down to it.. millions even billions have to starve and die because of this, which could have been easily avoided and still can be.

And then you will go to street and hold up some plackart about how you didn't see this coming, because you're an idiot.

Does it baffle you that poorer countries have lower wages for their workers? We as western societies have no one else to blame but ourselves for the mess we are in.

This
US has everything it needs to beat China at a trade war
Huge problem: your (((liberals))) who will probably cave and chimpout destroying your chances

Not really, we have already dug ourselves too deep in the hole of debt, and while we were having partisan conflicts, China has been getting more and more partners with the rest of the world. They have options, we dont.

>Does it baffle you that poorer countries have lower wages for their workers? We as western societies have no one else to blame but ourselves for the mess we are in.

we are supposed to uplift these people by doing good trade deals which we have influence of these things, instead a few do bad trade deals which allows them to exploit their people on behest of corporations who move to their places, because simultaneously you make it hard for them to be in civilized world..

it's not so simple as "modern civilization is to blame" infact modern civilization could have easily uplifted these people along with their own people instead by this way it becomes the opposite.. and with your way of doing things.. you essentially say "US is done let's go to china".. ah you fool! you don't have any foresight or longterm planning whatsoever.. all you have is best laid plans of mice and men.. do whatever is the current political climate and don't rock the boat.. the boat has to be rocked.. and things have to be set straight.

Where it up to people like you we would all be lemmings going straight down into oblivion, so be thankful that it is not up to you.

China has a lot to gain in the rebuilding process of America.

US "winning" a trade war with China would be like France "winning" WW1 - basically getting gut-shot and then slowly dying over 50 years.

I for one welcome a Trump-China trade war because it means the end of American power.

#MAGA

And the only difference between you and them would be, that you would instead of remedy the situation, step on top of them so that you are crushed the last.. what a bitter fate you have in your ignorance and ill begotten "wisdom"..

We would get off better than China and China knows it.

1) China's entire premise for POLITICAL stability is ECONOMIC prosperity. Without American consumers to keep buying all these shit they make, their economy would come to a stand still. This will change as time goes on, though, since the Chinese are pushing their own people to consume, but it's not there yet. Chinese LOVE saving, cause a lot of them still remember how shit life was only a generation or two ago.

2) Americans not having a lot cheap, worthless shit to buy won't be the end of America or its jobs. A lot of shit will go out of stock, but there'll be lots of other producers and suppliers, some in the US, willing to pick up the slack. Why can't China just replace the US in a similar fashion? Cause it's harder to find a bunch of addicted consumerists saps to throw most of their money at shit they don't need

3) In both cases, the POLITICAL outcomes will be a bad election for the incumbent party in the US, but China will have a literal revolution. It's people have very little ways of throwing out their leadership. When people don't have a way to vent politically because of intense state oppression, they'll just outright rebel. You think America is coming apart now? Wait for China to fall apart.

4) China is in a big fat bubble where a lot of wealth has been poured into worthless real estate dependent on future growth. If or when China's growth stalls, and it's been in decline, though still higher than the developed world, for a couple of years, the Politiburo will have a Political upheaval, an economic crisis, and a demographic collapse soon after due to decades of single child only policies.

America is far more stable politically, economically, and socially than China. What just happened with Trump in America was probably a once in century event. If something like this hit China, it could probably fall into civil war given its current situation.

Amen

yeah

just make products that have more quality

You do
Reputation and trust is a powerful thing
Most parts of the world trust Amerifats more than China
The problem is surviving the recession without cucking out on the start of the trade war (where congress is very likely to fall to Dem hands during this period)

There can't be a trade war in the first place, they are our 2nd biggest trading partner.

Unfortunately we live in a nuclear world were all we can really do is try to be nice to each other, otherwise we just lose money.

china's GDP is no longer dependent on exports

mckinsey.com/business-functions/strategy-and-corporate-finance/our-insights/a-truer-picture-of-chinas-export-machine

Who, Europe? If our currency goes down their's will as well. If we lose our status as the world currency--which we will, then who does America have to turn to? We have already alienated most of the world with our imperialist policies. They would be happy to spite us in a time of weakness.

Daneman explain to me how almost all danes are cucked into welcoming niggers and rapefugees with open arms.Hobro is full of niggers and sandniggers.

Ofcourse they gear to more self sustaining market, do you think their one child policy was for shit and giggles.. but they still have a long way to go, hence a smooth transition from abuse of US and others to one that respects all people involved.. not cutting off anything, it's more india and africa and middle east and others that is in more dire straits but china certainly has its woes.. don't believe this bogus that china can just survive without the US right now.. it's ridiculous.. but first and foremost i agree that nations should be self reliant first and foremost and then trade.. return to more sound practices that is good for each respective peoples. This slave labour bullshit in china it has to go, and it is happened because of bad trade deals to a large degree funneling corporations to do a certain thing corporations just do what is best fiscally.. it is up to policy makers to funnel them into doing things that is both beneficial for private sector and beneficial for the respective nations at the same time.

They go to war room "this is situation how do we make best of it" that's what the corporations do.. that's what a person does aswell. when you funnel individuals or corporations towards negative ends globally but shortterm for them fiscally sound.. that's what they do.. make it fiscally sound for them to stay in their nations.. you uplift also wages globally as a result of this. Because others then have to follow suit because those with best workers become strongest economy not those who pay their workers least to get best profit from bad trade deals gets something.

And with trump you already seen surge in market surge in all kinds of things, also good relations with china, you could not wish for better president in this situation.. it's a boon to him that he already has dealt with these guys as businessman, no mere politician could arrange these deals necessary to facilitate a smooth transition in so many ways.. special interests just pull in whatever direction they do.. it's like a map without a compass.. they go wherever they go even if it's bad for them, they need desperately a mapmaker someone to assert themselves in to establish an actual direction that is mutual beneficial.. this bilderberg a fraud and facade, they just special interests going in all kinds of directions..

China
>pic related
>over a billion chinks and over 100 million potential soldiers
>government whose only interest is to make China the greatest country on Earth
>makes most of the world products
SO NOBODY WILL DARE START A TRADE WAR WITH THEM. Despite this, their inner economy has grown enough to be self sustainable even without exports.
>rapidly accelerating economy and technology
>their banks have more gold and foreign reserves than ours

USA and Europe
>nationalism has successfully been replaced with a "citizens of the world" mentality
>Trump, Brexit and maybe a few other right wing rises is their last stand, but they were only made possible because of old people. Just look at how the millennials voted.
Trump is ultimately a rich guy looking to boost his ego. The last trickle down experiment ended quite badly in 2008 and the next crash will be much worse.
>non-homogeneous populations
>consumer economies
Consuming products from China.
>propped up, unstable financial markets because of insane low interest central bank policies

Face it, the west is done. China is the future.

You think China won't win in the end huh? What do you have that's a deal breaker. Nukes?? They'll shoot them down before they even enter Chinese airspace.

Ah sweden as stupid as always reporting in.. there's no trade war with china/US china is raping US with massive trade deficit, what is needed however is to have fair trade with them for mutual respect.. for best of both peoples in this equation.

there are no winners in a trade war.

We should have not given you independence you just went "capital of giving our nation away" and now apparently you want to give your nation away to china aswell when you don't even have to.. amazing.. middle easterners and africans were not enough.. we should've not given you independence in the first place.. you were better off without it..

>Yes

Reason being we give them food

Atleast then when you were under charge of those who knew wtf they were doing you wouldn't be making stupid decision after stupid declaration that makes brother norway shake their head in dissapointment.

It would be a shitfest on both sides

Yes. Every single country in Asia hates China, Russia is their only friend.

They ran these simulations years ago and the US suffers far more. Not only does China buy all the US's debt it has the manufacturing infrastructure in place to actually produce whereas the US has digits on a computer.

>They'll shoot them down before they even enter Chinese airspace.

kek

>1bn vs 300 mln

no

Yes, 100%

Israel, Russia, India, Japan, Europe, and Brazil would stand with the USA against China.

We are not alone.

>Mfw when burgers think we are a better economy than China
We have one thing over China which is a total GDP
They literally shit on us in everything economically
Higher PPP, higher population, Almost no regulation, Slavery is legal, Banking is state regulated no one receives profit besides state.
We lose in a trade war

Even then China is currently moving towards a focus on its domestic market because their economic rise increased the wages.

They're going to buy out Africa and Vietnam, make their shit there and then sell it to their countrymen while also forcing foreign companies to keep using it as a workshop because no other country has the workforce, the know how and the infrastructure when it comes to mass manufacturing electronics.

We're the buyers they're the sellers. They're dependent on us. You can move factories elsewhere but you can't just replace the world's largest marketplace. Who else would they sell to? Africa?

Easily.

Except all of those countries with the exception of Israel are dependent on China more so than the US. We don't produce anything, they do.

What happens if we just refuse to pay off that debt?

Nope, at least not without resorting to drastic changes that will obviously hurt.
China produces a lot of things, they have "real" economy. USA is mostly service-based. Trade wars and instability will hurt you a lot more.
They will hurt Chinese too however, and I dare say China is not so stable. The fact neither side tries should tell you things are mostly in balance right now.

I think i go to bed, it's been a long week, be safe everyone and god bless.

China exports more to the US than they import. They can't win a trade war that involves restrictions on trade.