Do we need Superman: Year One?

So, Superman has almost a billion origin story "prestige" books - you've got pic related (Lenil Yu's and Waid's best work), Geoff Johns and Gary Frank's Secret Origin, JMS's Earth One, John Byrne's Man of Steel, Grant Morrison's first three pages of All-Star Superman (lol), etc (therobotsvoice.com/2012/02/the_30_best_retellings_of_supermans_origins.php).

Do we need Superman: Year One?

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We don't need yet another origin retelling, but it might be nice to literally have a "Year One" book--that is, it might be fun to have a book that chronicles the first year or two of Superman's public superhero career, when he's just establishing himself in Metropolis and getting to know some of his more iconic villains. Superman: The Animated Series kind of did that, and it's one of my favorite things about the show. How did people in Metropolis react to him at first? What was the reaction of the police force? How did his first encounter with Luthor go? I'd read a book about that. I know we've gotten that sort of thing in chunks, here and there, over the years, but I don't think we've ever gotten it in a sustained series.

I guess what I'm asking for is a "Legends of the Man of Steel" book.

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yes and no, yes because the idea is not bad and not because miller post-9/11 is not a good thing

Secret Origin and Morrison's Action Comics were the best origins for Supes, we don't need anymore

I don't believe frank miller's writing style is suited to superman. Miller's dark knight returns superman deconstruction is one of the most harmful things the character experienced in his history.

Morrisons' All Star Superman is actually just the first page and its the essence of the origin.

A Year One, if I'm understanding it correctly, is his first year in operation as a superhero, a totally different thing than what Morrison did.

But, I'd agree with you, it's what Birthright did (although THAT part of Birthright, Waids nonsense - and that entire set of years worth of DC stories where they would claim hard light or similar - about invading Kryptonian armies is THE worse part of that series, so I don't object to it being redone).

Cereal Lord was all over the place, it was a retelling from Krypton's destruction past Year One and there are objectionable things about it, but I don't see Miller's thing redoing it or replacing it, per se.

JMS Earth One is a different continuity, but yes, again it is a Year One story in the first (and probably second volume, given the brief time gap).

Anything that ignores and redoes Byrne is OK by me, plus which that crap is 40 years ago. However, isn't what Bendis is doing essentially the same thing? If so, it's confusing.

For that matter, what Landis did with with his Manapul issue is also essentially Superman Year One, albeit not in canon.

I don't object. Based on what others are saying, I'm not excited. And actually uninterested due to the fact that Romita Jr's art doesn't appeal to me generally, and Frank doesn't appeal period, and based on people's complaint about him, that's would be my main issue. But if XYZ highly talented writer and say Ryan Sook or Manapul or Doc Shaner or Chris Samne wanted to do something, I'd be all for it.

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This point as well, although I do agree with the Miller point here, not that I think Miller anything is good, but then I've never read any of his Marvel crap since I don't really read ANY Marvel crap.

Without the splash, I don't think it's as good. The splash (much as I don't actually like Frank Quitely in general) is one of the most powerful things ever following those four panels.

I have to reread Birthright, obviously to prep for the series, but every time I read it, I find it incredibly enjoyable.

(I also love Smallville season 11 as a great look at that universe's actual Superman: Year One. BQM is a really excellent writer, and he got some really amazing artists, even if the weekly series killed consistency.)

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we need one for rebirth superman, not another world.

we don't have a consistent origin story for rebirth superman at the moment.

Because casuals and normies don't read comics. Superman is the hero of that story even if he's the protagonist. That's literally the fucking point.

Antagonist*

There needs to be a comic about Clark's college years, when he went to Metropolis University and solved crimes without a superhero persona.

Oh, you mean Smallville. :)

That's not fair.

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Was a joke. :)

There is: Superman: The Secret Years. and guess what? Miller did the covers.

I'd like more of a focus on Clark's journalism.
In the original comics, Clark would (usually) only resort to the Superman persona when his Daily Star Journalist Clark Kent could not feasibly do more. So I think showing Clark really using his investigative chops would be cool, and hopefully dispel some of the notion that Superman is all brawn.

I do think that having Superman and Batman in the same universe is metaphysically contradictory. But I don't think people hate Superman because of Dark Knight Returns. People usually say "Superman is boring, he is too powerful," neither of which are from DKR.

we don't NEED it but I'm still excited to see what Miller and JRJR do

particularly if Miller unequivocally proves everyone who thinks he hates Superman wrong

it's the first and only good Superman writer in years
so fuck yes
Johns, JMS, Morrison, and Waid are shits
based Byrne and Loeb can stay

what we need is superman x lana fucking

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People who hate Miller calling others casual is irony.

>Miller's dark knight returns superman deconstruction is one of the most harmful things the character experienced in his history.
>>>/reddit/

pretty sure that user was defending Miller, user

I agree that the splash makes it powerful, which is why having Luthor read it in the movie was just one among a number of mistakes they made. But the splash adds nothing to the actual origin, which is why most people just say it's the one page, four panels.

I agree Season 11 is another good example except that Smallville actually stretch out what a Year One it was. You could say that once Clark went to Metropolis and became the Blur, that his "year one" began.

>we don't have a consistent origin story for rebirth superman at the moment.

I would agree that we need a bit of clarity to this, post Superman Reborn. I seriously doubt that's what Miller intends or will accomplish.

Beat me to this.

It is more about Miller than Superman. Nobody cares about your husbando.

That would be Bendis' MoS.

The splash completes the origin. Otherwise it's not really an origin, because it's not showing what the origin is. It's like if Batman Year One only showed him in the balaklava, instead of showing the actual ears and cape.

For batwanking batgodding casuals and their belief systems, it sure was.

Possibly true, which doesn't explain why DC is agreeing to this AND agreeing to do Bendis MoS.

>Superman: Year One
>it might be nice to literally have a "Year One" book

WE'RE GETTING ONE EITHER WAY. HOW THE FUCK DO YOU MORONS NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS?

Because origins sell, especially at the bookstore. :)

you're an idiot

Sorry if it wasn't clear - this post was inspired by the fact that we're getting one.

Agree to disagree - I see your point, but it's not actually necessary.

Save the actual story of the baby Jesus, it's best known origin story on the planet, just as this is one the far more recognizable symbol on the planet, just shy of a crucifix, the stop sign and a VERY few other things.

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Both are different lines and different editorials.

Let me guess? You think Miller and Moore destroyed the comic industry and Johns is saving us?

Sure thing. I just have such a huge emotional reaction to the way "Superman" and the splash works with the eight words. Pure poetry.

Year One is a standalone out-of-continuity-ish story

Only if King writes it. Bendis can get fucked

If you were talking about another in-continuity origin I would say not at this time, but since Superman: Year One is likely only in continuity with the Miller Dark Knight universe, if at all, then I'd allow it.

Superman: The Secret Years for Pre-Crisis
And those miniseries during Byrne's time on the book (World of Metropolis, etc)

When Bendis brought that up, it was something I liked, but the problem is I'm very wary of Bendis' stuff because of the last several years or so of his Marvel work. I'm cautiously hopeful that his bad work was just because there was little to no oversight, but still.

Bendis MoS is supposed to be main continuity while Miller's Superman Year One is out-of-continuity, most likely in-continuity with his Dark Knight Universe.

Bendis can get fucked no matter who writes it.

Thing is, the collected edition removed the title and credits are removed from the splash page.

If we go pretty deep we don't need comics itself, they are stories make for entertainment, this is just another story for a character, I don't see anyone complaining when it's another story of some character overcoming some obstacle, just a new story for a character, it's not that deep

Not really. MoS was signed off by Lee and DiDio. I'm sure Johns was aware of it, whether he had to approve or not, to the extent that anything that is written isn't going to contradict something important for Doomsday Clock OR that Johns re-writes Doomsday Clock to fit.

Millers thing may have different editor supervising it, but if they are calling it "CANON" it needs to not contradict both Doomsday Clock and Bendis

We don't know if they're calling it canon or not. And given that it's Miller, I'd say probably not.

Fuck No.

Our Cereal Lord is leading us to a promise land of stupidity and casualness.

That doesn't mean I don't think Moore is overpraised and the Miller, to the extent that I'm familiar with him, is just a crappy artist and writer with porn parody level ideas.

>Miller, to the extent that I'm familiar with him, is just a crappy artist and writer with porn parody level ideas.
so you're not very familiar with him at all, then

>Miller's Superman Year One is out-of-continuity, most likely in-continuity with his Dark Knight Universe.

I had to re-read the blurb. I think the misunderstanding HERE by some people (me included since it's my comment about 'DC approving Bendis MoS and THIS' up above, is that some people in the thread about the DC Black Label and up above keep talking about this being in canon.

What was actually written is "A groundbreaking, definitive treatment of Superman’s classic origin story in honor of his 80th anniversary" - which while definitive does suggest 'canon' and 'continuity' - if it's actually a case where it's more in the same continuity as Miller's Batman Year One (given that this was already mooted for the current continuity by Batman Zero Year in the New 52), I'm totally OK with that, albeit I still have qualm about Miller being the writer.

I'm still unclear as to what Bendis is doing with HIS version of MoS except that I don't think, based on what DC is revealing so far, that it really does what Byrne did (e.g. Martha isn't going to all of a sudden have a prior marriage, etc.) and reset some of the status quo as much as allow Bendis to create his OC right off the bat as somehow associate him with the destruction of Krypton. Given what 'Oz Effect' and Doomsday Clock have already set up, not sure what that could really be other than another example of another writer coming in to an established character like a new dog into an existing neighborhood, where he wants to go in every single corner so as to stake his claim.

I definitely know enough that he's definitely a crappy artist in the past when he was considered good, and he definitely should not be displaying his current work as payment capable examples of 'art."

TDKR and Sin City are master classes in comic book art

seems like you just don't know what good comic art actually looks like

>master classes

you go to a shitty school, we get it user; no need to beat a dead horse

name a comic artist you think is good right now

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Being contrarian doesn't make you cool user, it just makes you obnoxious.

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Clark’s college years are where his “Golden Age” activities should take place. Beating up corrupt cops, CEOs, war profiteers, racists, that shit is perfect for that period of time.

Be real, no one gives a shit about Miller. He’s way past his prime and his DK3 is already forgotten.

Do people really know his origin? Pre-MoS that was not the impression I got. I met people who didn’t know he was an alien. Batman’s seems more well-known.

Black Label is meant to be stuff like TKJ i.e. it’s not meant to be canon, but if it’s really popular they’ll make it canon.

So like Supercaveman? I think remember a cartoon like that.

No but if Frank wants to tell it, let him tell it. That's what this Black Label is all about.

You just don't know enough people. I know people who have no clue that Martha was the mother's name, have no clue who Joe Chill is, don't know what Crime Alley is (other than it's a alley in which crimes take place), etc. etc.

>That's what this Black Label is all about.

Not exactly. It's to get people interested in comic books who don't go to LCSs and probably wouldn't buy floppies even digitally.

So it needs to be good and needs to be something that will suggest other similar stuff might appeal. A one shot for Frank's fans isn't going to help anything.

>it needs to be good
if that were true, Coates' Black Panther wouldn't be flying off the shelves

Black Label seems to be aimed at people who like HBO shows and Image comics.

It's not.

it's one of the best-selling bookstore trades

The first volume is. Has anyone actually reported the later volumes selling that high?

volumes 2 and 3 were in the top 20 last month because movie

Fair enough - though they also were shilling them on Amazon for a dollar, so that probably went into it. But what about the stuff he's releasing now? And all his ridiculous spinoffs?

World of Wakanda beat out Killing Joke and the most recent trade did pretty well too

It's like arsenic beating out cyanide...

They are highly marked down. There's a ton of Marble books for $0.99 as legal digital downloads and they've been having a sale of a huge swath of their trade back catalogue every month for the past two years almost.

g o a l p o s t s

People were commentating that they thought Black Label was going to be akin to Marvel Max. That's where that started.

Image doesn't have an upscale/prestige format type image, even amongst this crowd. Image just had a few huge winners and some big names like Saga but that doesn't reflect widespread sales beyond those titles like TWD.

Comparing anything to Image is meaningless.

Facts hurt, huh user.

Is that because lower sales mean less cash for the interns?

it's aimed at people who buy comics in bookstores

I'm talking about the people who like Image - they're the pretentious, arty types who think they don't read comic books, they read graphic novels. Image pretends to be prestige with every release.

TKJ was always meant to be canon. Now fuck off, Rich.

So if Frank Miller is doing Year One, is Max Landis's American Alien sequel still on?

Why has nobody done this before?

He should also wear black and have a mask like Netflix Daredevil, seriously

I thought Landis was persona non grata now?

Only in feminist shitholes.

Um. Like comics?

...yes.

Agreed. Have him wear a mask and have it backfire when people freak the fuck out at the flying freak in all black.

That's the idea. How about he finds out he likes it better when he doesn't hide his face. It's liberating.

So people who like good stuff?

People who like pretentious stuff that is sometimes good, but usually has to do with looking down your nose at people who don't like it.

How the hell is Image pretentious

>disliking Miller
Top fucking pleb

>since I don't really read ANY Marvel crap
>being an unironic company war faggot

It's a bunch of pulp and scifi, but incredibly bleak and self-serious.

>panelling and storytelling are irrelevant I really just want to look at pretty people
Fuck yourself

It's not the big 2 and that makes capebabbies feel small.

I read real books. I have no problem with things that aren't capepunk. I have a problem with things that think they're better than their audience.

Can you give some examples or are you just gonna keep pretending the sweeping claim you're making passes on its own?

Brubaker's stuff for Image - at least Velvet and Kill or Be Killed. Gorgeously drawn and colored, and really polished dialogue, but it's so full of its own importance - Velvet bringing in Nixon was just so self-wanky, and Kill or Be Killed's continual "demon is real! demon is not real! Whatever!"

Then you have Rucka's stuff. Now I actually love Lazarus, and am enjoying Black Magick (when the book freaking comes out), but both of them (and the much worse book The Old Guard he put out) are just what Rucka normally does with superheros, but in his own communist-inspired future (or magical Portland, or weirdly non-Islamic Middle East) - but because it doesn't have superheros, it's Serious and you have to read his incredibly insulting essays at the end. All about how This Could Be Happening Now Because Trump Is A Fascist.

No, it won't. Trump is a jerk and an idiot, but he's not putting anyone in jail. Lazarus is a really well told story, but it's full of itself.