Isn't National Socialism a leftist ideology?

I'm confused.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=dx29SoBzaa4
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism#Fascist_corporatism
youtube.com/watch?v=74ExAh89kY4
www84.zippyshare.com/v/1Rnux4RC/file.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics
youtube.com/watch?v=I7_vLPYW_88
germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/sub_document.cfm?document_id=3910
libertarianmajority.net/socialist-party-of-america-1928-platform
socialistparty-usa.net/platform.html
beliefnet.com/columnists/on_the_front_lines_of_the_culture_wars/2011/04/she-survived-hitler-and-wants-to-warn-america.html
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

>implying anyone on Sup Forums is smart enough to know anything beyond gommunist, democlap, and repuliclap

What makes it leftist?

Fascism isn't a fucking economic system. Replace with anarchy, it's a more accurate line

You could technically have a conservative communist, that scale is sort of retarded.

That political map is flawed because it excludes libertarianism and anarchism.

Left/Right is based on Utopian vs. Realist. Utopian ideologies want a revolutionary transformation of society, while realist ones acknowledge society as it is. In this sense, Nazism is Utopian since Hitler wanted to transform Germany in a revolutionary way that cast aside traditional German things, so in this sense it is left-wing.

The scale is lacking additional dimensions such as the extent of government hand-holding, civil liberties and political priorities.

it's economically left but they were socially right

Yes but the media want to separate nazism/fascism from socialism so they put them apart.

Anarchism is socialist.

Left/right dichotomy is extremely simplified and only works in a polarized system.

Nazism has some "right wing" elements as well as some "left wing" elements, and elements that are not really part of either side.

...

NATIONAL-SOCIALISM

Nationalism - tends to national sovereignty, anti globalist
right wing

Socialism
left wing

Right wing = individual is most important
Left wing = the weakest party is most important
Third way = the nation is most important

It had leftists policies, and it shaped a lot of elements of our modern Socialism. (Or when it was greatly used, like in Scandinavian countries before the 00')
It's far, far from being the "far-right". It's a meme created by the left and far left to put the fault on the right. And it worked perfectly.

wake up

I think if you take a look at THIS op, it should clear up any confusion you may have.

I don't get this either, shouldn't fascism be far left and anarchists far right?

No, it's third way

That's why it usually is simply far up on the vertical Y axis lines on most political compass guides. It's a combo of left-wing economic policy and right-wing social policy.

NATIONAL SOCIALISM can be broken down into NATIONAL(ISM) + SOCIALISM indeed.

this
Stalin was a fucking fascist.

checked

Right wing = it's an individual's fault if they don't fit
Left wing = it's societies fault if they don't fit

>American education
>Irish education

I mean their "socialism" was pretty limited. They look left wing when you compare them to America but by the standards of the time and place they were centre right. But there are "left wing" elements in Nazism/Fascism for sure, anti-bourgeoise sentiment, anti-consumerism, environmentalism etc.

The Nazis invaded the Right Wing and kickied them out of government, the Left and Nazis are aligned together on Big government control of society.

Having a refereed economy that tries to guarantee fairness.

y-you too

That's also kind of true. Obviously my post was a massive over simplification.

>Irish education
Stalin was a Fascist who took over the Communist party from Lenin and Trotsky. Stalin probably killed Lenin as well as killing Trotsky.

>Stalin was a fucking fascist.
Christ lad

National Socialism is much more about the state being in cultural unity (and dictating cultural unity) than it is about political ideals.

It's a highly collectivist system characterized by repression of opinion and de-facto state-ownership of capital. Pretty leftist to me.

>Privatization and banning unions=big gubbermand
are you retarded?

Left and right have never been very good at describing political alignment. I don't know why people use it so much.

fascism is left wing
big government vs property and individual rights

Stalin was a marxist leninist not a fasicst.

If Stalin was a fascist then how come lenin and trot wasn't?

Fascism is an economic system based upon the ideas of corporatism. Meaning that industries are nationalized and merged into "corporations" which are like syndicates. The government then resolves disputes between the workers and management while overseeing production. So yes, fascism is a leftist ideology and it is an economic system. With that said, fascist economics can vary from country to country.

fascist

>he never went to history class
No it fucking isnt

You're all fucking retards

pls no bully ;_;

El Fascismo e una Sola!
VINCERE! E VINCEREMOS!
PUEBLO ITALIANO!
RASSA MEDETERRIANO!
youtube.com/watch?v=dx29SoBzaa4

Welcome to Sup Forums.

you have no idea what you are talking about

How did you know, it was only that one time user, honestly, plus I used condoms.

Yes it is. It was born out of socialist war veterans movements. It takes the marxist, internationalist socialism and adapts it to the national level. It's the same shitty planned economy, encouragement of degeneracy and dissolving of class and religion.

muh
u
h

Prove me wrong Kraut.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism#Fascist_corporatism

Stalin and Hitler were both fascists.

Communism in the Marxist (original) sense would entail the workers having control of the means of production, which they never have done in any "communist" country

SALUTO
A
L
U
T
O


EL DUCEEEE!

youtube.com/watch?v=74ExAh89kY4

>forgetting Yugoslavia.
Workers self management under Tito seemed closest to worker ownership of the means of production.

Read this and you won't be confused anymore:

www84.zippyshare.com/v/1Rnux4RC/file.html

GRANDE
ROMA

...

> Fascism is an economic system
Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism.

>So yes, fascism is a leftist ideology
Fascism opposes liberalism, Marxism and anarchism and is usually placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

inb4 "muh big state is always gommunism"

read up what left and right wing politics actually mean you uneducated cuck

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics

Daily reminder mussolini and Hitler were Fascist brothers, bonded by souls.

Fascists of the world are of one world.

youtube.com/watch?v=I7_vLPYW_88

Dude you're assuming that the ideologies aren't micrometers apart from eachother left or right.
Sure it may be a left ideology, but it really makes no difference.

since when liberalism has become left? Liberalism has always been right leaning.

its neither a left or right wing ideology it is centrist authoritarian

You're confusing national socialism (the leftist platform hitler publicly espoused) with fascism (the policy hitler actually implemented).

Nazism really is an ironic term, it has nothing to do with what was called national socialism at the time, but now national socialism only means nazi.

Of course it is. The only difference between Commies and Nazis is that Commies are international socialists and Nazis are national socialists.
With Fascism it depends. Mussolini was a lefty and Italin Fascism was left leaning, Falangist Fascism in Spain by Franco and in Chile by Pinochet were right leaning.

It's an American understanding of politics.

left and right are myths btw

>they called it socialism to make it sound non-fascist
>plan was invented by the greatest propagandists the world has ever known
>OP still falls for it 71 years later

liberal has a different meaning in the US
they call libertarian what we call liberal

>Is National Socialism a leftist ideology
I can't speak with great authority on European politics, but from an American perspective it is neither left nor right.

>Program of the German Workers’ Party (1920)
germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/sub_document.cfm?document_id=3910
>Socialist Party Of America 1928 Platform
libertarianmajority.net/socialist-party-of-america-1928-platform
>Socialist Party USA: 2015-2017 National Platform
socialistparty-usa.net/platform.html

As you can see, the racial components of the Nazi party are considered conservative today, and the socialist components are seen as liberal. After the war, the counterculture movements struck, and racial policies were slowly replaced in the democratic party(which used to be the party of segregation) with marxist ideas of class struggle. Meanwhile, the right became a haven for both laissez-faire capitalists and ethnic nationalists. This is why Sup Forums is more intellectually diverse than any leftist circle, not just because we value individualism, but also because conservatism has always been a bastion for those who progressives steamroll in their zealous pursuit of a utopian society.

this is the only political spectrum that makes any sense

that original line is a single axis with many metrics, it makes no sense

the only way a political spectrum line can make sense is if its absolute politics on one side, and the absence of it on the other: a single metric

facism is to the left of liberal, its right next to communism

>Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism.

Nationalism isn't the only element to fascism you fucking retard. You can't have fascism without corporatism, an economic system created by Mussolini.

>Fascism opposes liberalism
>liberalism

Liberalism is a capitalist ideology. Therefore it's right wing. Even the most "leftist" forms of liberalism would just be center left social democracy.

>Marxism and anarchism
Fascism opposes Marxism and anarchism because they're internationalist ideologies that seek to destroy nations. An ideology can be center left, center right, far right and even far left and still be nationalistic.

Fascism is opposed to these ideologies on a social basis more so than an economic basis, even though the economic differences are there.

>inb4 "muh big state is always gommunism"

That's not what I'm saying you fucking idiot.

>read up what left and right wing politics actually mean you uneducated cuck

They're based on economics you retarded Kraut. Enjoy your cultural enrichment by the way.

This is much more retarded than the OP picture.
You people should just understand how relative "left-right" is and stop with all the "my special snowflake righ-left definition is the right one"

American """""""conservatives"""""""" don't want Fascism to be right-wing ideology because they don't want to take responsibility for big bad scawy things waaaa or anything involving any typeof violence that isn't their gay sons dying for Israel.

So much for this leftists are the 'utopian' ones bullshit.

/thread

I don't know if thats true-

do liberals in Germany want the least amount of government possible and are against things like public schools, environmental regulations, public fire departments, a truly free market, no taxes, no big bureaucracies, etc.


thats libertarian in the US

liberals in the US are authoritarians, they would be happy with brainless communism, the left ALWAYS invades any movements and co-opts them to twist them into what they want, an all encompassing body politic with no freedom and no individuality (and the absolute opposite of what liberal means)

classical liberal is a term used for libertarian

Well, left and right are strictly based on economics. A political spectrum makes zero sense if you only include the economic axis without including the social axis.

the OP line is the common political spectrum

it is a single axis line that has many metrics, it makes zero sense.

my line is one metric: more government on one side, less on the other

its the only one that makes any sense

nationalism isn't inherently right wing, you can see many nationalist lefties in history

>an economic system created by Mussolini.
This is what Americans really believe

the correct answer....

>big government is left
>small government is right
>no government is left
?

>believing the left-right continuum linear scale is an accurate way of characterizing any political ideology

Redpill: STEM isn't enough, you need to know your philosophers and artists. Some shit can't be understood in a (literally) cartesian mindset.

no they are not

economics are UNDER the power of the political system

the political system controls or influences the economics, not the other way around

While NS is a redpill ideology in itself the real redpill about NS is its made up of disgruntled liberals.

No, one works in conjunction with the other. Money effects the balance in power in the political world and political influence effects the balance of power in the business world.

Big government totalitarianism is left-wing when it doesn't suit me (communism) and right-wing when it does suit me (national socialism). This makes sense if you don't think about it logically.

>71 ▶
>
>>big government is left
>>small government is right
>>no government is left
>?
this always just pisses the leftists off because they are so braindead they HAVE to rely on labels for their feels

if fascism was placed left, they would feel all icky

the political spectrum line is fucking retarded anyways and basically meaningless for anyone out of 4th grade

but liberals are fucking idiots so they have to use it in their ideas

Lots of things.
beliefnet.com/columnists/on_the_front_lines_of_the_culture_wars/2011/04/she-survived-hitler-and-wants-to-warn-america.html
Read this, you'll see that - for it's time - NatSoc was quite radically progressive in many regards. There were reactionary aspects too, but people these days tend to cast the Nazi movement as 200% reactionary and conservative when that's simply not the case.

>They're based on economics you retarded Kraut.
wrong

Right-wing politics hold that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable, typically defending this position on the basis of natural law, economics or tradition.Hierarchy and inequality may be viewed as natural results of traditional social differences

Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy and social inequality.

its based on building a hierachy or making everyone equal. Basing it just on economics makes zero sense.

>Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism.

yet its not an economic system

>I'm confused.

Just what kikes want.

There are obviously things to left and right outside of economics. Social,political issues, etc - that were specific to movements associating themselves with left or right.
As well as "authoritarian-libertarian" axis is just a relative meme.
This whole compass after all is as much of a meme as any other "muh true political axis" out there.

No. It is an economically centrist, socially authoritarian ideology. Stop with the "left-right" divide ND conquer.

you are retarded

if you have less government, thats more free market capitalism BECAUSE there is less government


the economics are only allowed to function in certain ways by the power above it

the government says ok, we can have a free market, or it can say, no we have to have price controls and the government must own the factories

the politics are ABOVE the economics

>ANARCHISM IS SOCIALIST
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

No it is not. It's tribal, yes, but capitalism is the only economic system that ultimately allows for anarchy to exist without the destruction of other "tribes" when they compete. In an anarchist society asking people to share will get you shot.

Trade is the ultimate redpill.

The paradigm of left vs right assumes that governments and ideologies are sterile things operating in a vacuum.
NatSoc beliefs put their own people first, all of their political goals aim to benefit and protect their own ethnic group. This does not fall anywhere on a neat little spectrum.

>Right-wing politics hold that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable, typically defending this position on the basis of natural law, economics or tradition

Social hierarchy isn't the same thing as economic hierarchy. There would be no such thing as the authoritarian left if that were the case. Why do you think communist countries have inner circles of elite party members?

>Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy and social inequality.

That's Marxism and Anarchism. As a matter of fact, even though Marx supported creating a state initially, he eventually wanted to destroy the state all together to make way for his utopian dream of world communism. So in the end even "authoritarian" Marxists support anarcho-communism as the end goal. Which falls into the left libertarian category.

>its based on building a hierachy or making everyone equal. Basing it just on economics makes zero sense.

That falls under social authoritarianism/libertarianism. Why do you think Trump is technically to the left of Clinton on economics despite being more authoritarian than she is?

>yet its not an economic system

Mussolini wouldn't have outlined the economic system of Italy if it wasn't both a political and economic system.

If this were true you wouldn't have left wing groups like Strasserists or Nazbols who support national traditions despite being on the left axis of the political spectrum.

>socialism is everything the government does.
Go read a book.

Doubles confirm my points.

And again.

This

very good intellectual opinion

>There would be no such thing as the authoritarian left if that were the case. Why do you think communist countries have inner circles of elite party members?

that something works on paper does not mean it can work like that in practice. Marxism is about class struggle and the rule that everyone is the same and a simple worker should get the same as a doctor and so on which is clearly far left.

i dont even know why i argue with you when wikipedia and social/poltical science books use the definitions i wrote. But basing it just on economics would put a weed loving, fag enabler suddenly on the right while a collective catholic movement would be on left wing.

you can put people into hierarchy through economics or race or just tradition. If one of these is the main goal then it is right wing.

Quality posts.

It looks like this board is getting back to it's roots again.