So I recently bought and read the first 3 volumes of Cassandra's run as Batgirl...

So I recently bought and read the first 3 volumes of Cassandra's run as Batgirl, and I was pleasantly surprised by how good it was, although the tie-ins to the Vesper Fairchild murder brought the third volume down. So could we have a Cass thread?? Where do I read from here? Is her reintroduction any good?

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>Is her reintroduction any good?
ehh....Its nice to see her again I guess. pre-Flashpoint David Cain was better.

Rebirth Detective Comics gives Cass some focus

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Is he still her father? I liked the whole fucked up dynamic they had where he essentially abused all through her childhood, but the end result basically made her invincible. And what better gift to give your child than the tools to avoid danger?

>And what better gift to give your child than the tools to avoid danger?
Love and fond memories?

My Father didn't give me either of those things and I grew up fine.

Id swim in a pool of Cass sweat

Yeah me too

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>Is her reintroduction any good?

It's better than Stephanie's and Tim's reintroduction. But that's like saying waking thru thumb tacks is better than walking thru broken glass or nails.

Batman & Robin Eternal has an interesting premise which they fuck up to make it the "Fan Favorite" Harper Row show.

Yes, Cass is one of the focuses, but after #14 Harper basically takes center stage booting Dick and Cass to meh roles. Then the art checks out by #14 as well.

If anything check out #13 for gorgeous Marcio Takara art.

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Where is Harper Row these days? I never seen any solicits of her anywhere. The last thing I remember reading with her was the shitty issue of Snyder's run after Damian died.

at least Harper fucks off at the end

yeah but its an extreme makeover

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Wut
So is Shiva still her mother? This just comes off as fixing something that wan't broken. Man, I suppose Geoff John's Rebirth issue couldn't fix everything.

yeah Shiva is still the mom. she shows up in Detective for a bit.

I'm glad she stopped dressing as a dinosaur

Harper Row reminds me of Chloe Price.

Due learning she was designed by the "big bad" of Batman & Robin Eternal to be "the perfect" Robin, she decided, "Fuck this shit." She's popped up at the beginning of Victim's Syndicate and League of Shadow arcs (both times there cause of Cassandra and they were one and done). Then showed up in Stephanie's two-part arc prior to Tim returning.

Basically, she was part of Stephanie and Anarky's Utopia underground camp. And... that's the last we saw of her.

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Yeah, Shiva/David coupling is still a thing. However, the why is different now. It was hinted in a page during Cass's arc that David/Shiva were closer than they in the Pre-New 52 universe.

Plus the motivation for them being together is completely different now. Since Carolyn Wu, Shiva's sister apparently might still be alive and her self-help book that Cass's ballerina waifu took to heart told Cass about it and she took the advice to heart.

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So is Detective Comics worth picking up? I'm waiting for the 2nd vol of Steph's run to come out, is it worth it to fill the time until then?

Question is will Tynion provide closure to the subplot involving her, Ra's, and St. Dumas?

Will we ever find out what Shiva said to her? Cass is so going back to limbo when Tomasi takes over isn't she?

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Only for the first volume, Cassandra's, and the Azrael one. Stephanie's arcs (the Victim's Syndicate, and the two-parter plus single issue which ends up her teaming with Anarky to take down Wraith). It's well how do I put this... Stephanie comes off as a hypocritical bitch.

That said, Cass/Basil's friendship throughout the series until #974 is note perfect.

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Sad to say that Cassandra hasn't been written well since Puckett left. She's had a couple of nice moments in BRE/'Tec, but it buried under a mountain of mediocrity

She started out mute in NML, but gained the ability to speak (very simple) english pretty early in her solo run

Well the problem with that is because she's in a team book and she's one of several characters running around in the book with two of them who have their own ongoing.

I disagree Puckett/Gabrych both had their up's and downs in their runs after Puckett.

I think she is honestly characterized well in tec, she just suffers from the focus being mostly on Tim and Kate, both of which suck.

err meant Horrocks.

I'd blame Kate more ironically. Given Tim at least you can understand given he has no ongoing like Cassandra. Kate? She has an ongoing that barely acknowledges the stuff going on in Tec.

Also there's a preview for tomorrow's tec, and Cass's section seems really sad.

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these are good. Cass is a good.

You should put these pages together.

I have no skill, nor the 20,000 years in MS paint it would require. Besides, the full issue scans will be out tomorrow.

I just dread when Tim is whiny because Bruce didn't believe in his plan while his teammate is genuinely psychologically damaged.

It's kinda a thing about this whole Detective Comics team that was assembled. They're each pretty fucking broken people. Cass and Clayface were just the only ones to admit that to themselves.

Seems better than I normally expect from Tynion.

When it comes to Cass/Basil that's the only good thing I expect since that is what he excels at.

Tynion does a solid Cass. It's mostly his plots that aren't necessarily that good.

This character is boring as fuck. Not being shit like Barbara Gordon isn't a big accomplishment. Stop pretending that she's good just because MUH FAP. She's boring shit.

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Small mercies.

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> mom what's this?

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>most overrated batgirl
>Sup Forums don't care because they're all fight white virgins who "prefer Asian women"

It's so obvious it's pathetic

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not him but these pages really look great,

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It mostly rides a pretty uninteresting line with occasional highlights. It's a team book that never establishes a status quo for the team, doesn't really do that many interesting character interactions, but is constantly threatening to break up the team and forcing inter-character drama.

A lot of the relationships and dynamics are established off-panel and there's not really much to be interested in. It's an author taking the approach of "tell, don't show" and it suffers a lot for it.

He hates Bruce for some reason

he's one of the authors who uses batman less like a character and more like a plot device for the side characters, honestly

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>pseudo won't make more Cass/Ivy pics

Batman fucks more in his own books than he does anywhere else

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*fucks up

I think it's more he realizes Bruce isn't the full reason people are buying Tec and decides for him to be in a more supporting role.

Really, the only time Bruce got a huge amount of plot was one issue of League of Shadows which kind of derailed the arc a bit, and then the Zatanna portion which fully railroaded Jean-Paul's portion to minor in that arc.

You ask me, they should stop trying to make a Batgirl focused on Babs and do one on Cass. Veteran, crippled/Oracle Babs mentoring a living weapon and teaching her to read/speak would make a better movie than Barbra doing her one good story

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It be nice three fold story. One, showcase the past with Barbara in her prime. Then her being the mentor to a lost soul in Cassandra. Then Cassandra befriending Stephanie. Best of all three worlds.

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some old rumors said that's what was happening with BoP and tynion's 'tec run wrapping up at the same time. babs gets crippled again and mentors cass and steph.

>Is her reintroduction any good?
It is just short of catastrophic. Connecting Cassandra to Fan Favorite Harper Rowe was an ugly move, but at least it has been forgotten so far. At least some of the issues of B&RF had nice art.

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Whole lot of sadness in those two pages.

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No, they wouldn't do that. They fucked up too badly by making the Killing Joke still canon and having Barbara recover to just go and cripple her again. The only chance I think we'll get of seeing superior Oracle again will be in non-comics material such as cartoons and games. An Arkham Knight really screwed up in that regards.

supposedly it was in the context of a heroic sacrifice this time, which would probably make it a lot more palatable than the killing joke

I don't think it's likely at all since DC's editorial doesn't seem to like batgirls not named barbara, but this was from early 2017 and it also called out the metal series and a few other things

Maybe, though I don't know who could pull something like that off, Tynion seems to have a good grasp on Cass, but I don't know if he could write Oracle. Maybe Simone?

Simone would do it in a heartbeat.

this leak was naming Genevieve Valentine

Cass >>>>>>>>>>> that worthless whore Stephanie

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If only.

fuck that noise. You can have all of them running around.

There'll be like 8 different former or current Robins out there. Readers can handle 3 Batgirls.

Her title run dips a bit but it ends on a pretty damn high note, so keep reading. She's handled like shit throughout her return while drugged by Deathstroke. Plotwise you're not missing much there, so best to ignore that part completely. She's doing better currently but still not as good as she used to be because fuck narrowminded babsfags at DC who can't comprehend having both characters coexist without shitting on Cass exclusively.

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That would un-ironically a good decision. I don't understand the hate she got for her Catwoman run. It just came off as proto-outrage fags mad she kissed a girl.

It was also the best written Stephanie in a LONG time as well.

Eh, Barbara can keep her legs she just needs to be a mentor again. She’s never going back to the chair, user. We may as well accept it now

Gross. m-me too.

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>skilled enough to beat Batman
>brain damage and socially retarded

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i don't really care whether she's paralyzed or not, but i do want her back as oracle and a mentor figure anyway

Maybe have her implant become unreliable, like those half paralyzed people that can walk around their house, but long trips require them to bring a chair.

I need to remember to pick up the rest of her reprinted collections

Simone wrote Cass briefly in BoP. She demonstrated that she doesn't get the character at all.

>skilled enough to beat Batman
In a straight martial arts fight, but not when gadgets or Scrabble is involved.

I know everyone’s avoiding her solo book but she does actually lose the use of her legs in the climax of the Summer of Lies arc. A villain uses electromagnetism to fuck with her spinal implant and Nightwing basically flails her around the rest of the issue.

>Summer of Lies
And does she get her legs back? Having the implant work only a part of the time may actually be a way to bring Oracle back.

This. Put em on the Birds of Prey already. Have them operate in Burnside with Babs I don’t give a fuck just make use of them

Yeah, I wouldn't trust the Angel of the Bat lady within a mile of Cass.

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Yeah, she’s running around by the end of the issue but it felt nice to have her disability acknowledged if only for an instant (and for purely cosmetic reasons). In theory it could work, I’m picturing the backlash now

>tricks and gadgetry
>having any merit at all in a test of pure fighting skill
Oh so you're a faggot.

Correction: Babs uses an electromagnet that temporarily shorts out her implant

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And that’s all we get. More of a throwaway gag than anything else

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>could've rewritten the nanobots to program dick into the obedient robo boyfriend he never was
>doesn't
That babs is a standup gal.

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>implying pure fighting skill doesn't involve tricks and gadgetry
Why the fuck do you think traditional martial arts often have a shitload of weapons?

>>implying implying
Weapons aren't tricks. Entire martial art forms are designed around the use of specific weapons. You think a sword or staff is the same as a smoke bomb or taser?

>Have them operate in Burnside
Burnside is the easy mode of Gotham neighborhoods. What physical threat there is going to occupy Cass for more than a minute?

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Ya know I've been thinking about this and how people think of Cass. She's trained with exceptional martial arts but she was also a trained assassin. AND she's mentored by Batman and Babs and the rest of them. She'd totally be proficient, if not exceptional, at using the various tools of the trade.

learning how to read

I get flinging her flailing legs at someone would be slightly distasteful, but I'm fairly sure she'd just break her wrists doing that.
If she were swinging a weight on the end of a rope or something it'd be better.

iirc this was brought up in universe. Out of all the robins and batgirls, Cass very rarely uses gadgets. It can be assumed it's purely by preference because using her body as a weapon is first nature to her. She has used weapons before though, including guns.

If I were writing it, I'd probably do a couple fancy things like taking the different tools that the Bats use and changing their application.

I'd probably have her taking the grappling hook and wire and using it like a chain whip. Using battarangs as short knives or punching with them. Bringing out some of the theatrics with smoke bombs. So on.

Put Cass in school with Jon.
Put her up against creatures in her paygrade, with a partner she can't defeat, and threats she can't punch through like social interaction.

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As a giant Cassfag and Superfag, I love this.

confirmed for having no martial arts training

concept > technique

Plenty of martial arts are composed of a system with principles from one weapon in the system applying to the other.

>You think a sword or staff is the same as a smoke bomb or taser?
You think people didn't historically use smoke bombs and other distraction tools?

Not to mention that a big part of martial arts is a little thing called strategy. Tricking your opponent into doing something so you can exploit their action is tactics 101.

threats like forbidden love