Why is Vertigo character treated to be above DC character?

Why is Vertigo character treated to be above DC character?
Presence is treated to be supreme GOD of DC universe in all over the internet.
But,isn't Presence only inhabitant of God sphere in recent setttings?
People don't renew their knowledge?

Attached: 250px-Presence.png (250x165, 107K)

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Like most powerlevelfags, you're putting way too much thought into it

True.
So, why do powerlevelfag put Vertigo above DC?
I don't know why.

>Why is Vertigo character treated to be above DC character?
Because Vertigo throughout it's publication was always quasi-DC canon until probably the early 2000s. DC books referenced The Presense as being God (Morrison's JLA is a good example) and no one really came in to restructure any of it. It's only been rather recently (2009 forward) that the cosmology and metaphysics in both DC and Marvel have gotten some attention and started to remove a lot of the 90s Christian mythology from their respective universes.

It's a pointless shitshow trying to rank Gaiman's stuff with the other DC material. But The Presence is considered to be the creator of everything, and everything throughout the multiverse is part of his design.

The Presence has been in the DCU since the 40s user. Siegel first introduced it as The Voice

Presence first shows up in justice league

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So,People only don't know or admit that cosmology was renewed?

But, It is not 50's now.
Universal structure has been re-desighned.
Why people still believe that Presence is supreme?

dont be tedious

>of all the religions and gods in the multiverse, it just happens that the christian one is the supreme one above them all
Bias much DC?

The Presence, The Voice, The Hand, its all the same shit with different names

What redesign?

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>quasi-DC

Vertigo titles with any connection to the DC universe were always full canon.

*Jewish God
Jesus doesn’t show.

For example,Since Multiversity or Final crisis, Presence and Judeo-christian cosmology is only in sphere of gods where is below Monitor Sphere.

Who was in the wrong here ?

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In fact, Is Presence still supreme being of entire DC cosmology?

The "God Sphere" is for Old and New Gods. The reason being is that there is only one Darkseid in the multiverse for example. The Presence/Voice/Whatever is outside of that. If you notice outside the map, Destiny of the Endless is there, and he is below The Presence. Everything on that map is part of his creation, and Lucifer wanted to escape it.

Attached: DC Multiverse Map.jpg (2400x1880, 887K)

Heaven(Sillver city) is in sphere of God.
So,Judeo-christian cosmology is only in sphere of gods.

>only one Darkseid in the multiverse for example.

This will never not be stupid.

It is after setting was re-shaped.
Endless is not below Lucifer anymore.

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Heaven and Hell are just plains of existence and helped create The Rock of Eternity. Religious distinction isn't important, The Presence created both, and isn't confined to the sphere.
Endless are always really iffy. Its like asking if Death of The Endless has any power over The Presence

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Citation needed.
Not old vertigo.

>Lucifer series being set in the Vertigo Universe, which sits apart from the main DCU

What retard wrote this? The goddamn ending of Flashpoint has caused idiots to believe some retarded shit.

Death showed up in Action Comics only months before Flashpoint for fucks sake.

So, Presence was created by imagination of people in DC multiverse?

Actually I think he's talking about either the writers or readers

Man created god, god created man. It's a neat cyclical trick used in magic stories where creation feeds being created. The gods of myth in Marvel are much the same. Over there yes the Greek gods created the world, but only because eventually humans would be there to believe them into existence. That's how every pantheon in Marvel is true at the same time.

So,which is superior between monitors as avatar of authors and Presence?

I didn't write it, only posted it (and I have no stake either way)... It seems to me that any of these power debates breaks down to a sort of philosophical one of whether (and when) a work becomes canon or ceases to be so.

Sounds like a heap paradox is en route.

Regardless, the big question seems to be WHETHER old vertigo is now canon, and if not, when did it BECOME canon

So, Judeo-christian cosmology is not different from other religion-based cosmology isn't it?

twitter.com/michaelcarey191/status/684781343209861120
>@Amr_Xz You could take it that way! I had in mind the beliefs and imaginations of humankind. See "Dream Of a Thousand Cats" in Sandman...
So he's below Dream by this writer's explanation. He's similar to all the other gods who were born from dreams, except that he was dreamed into pseudo-omnipotence instead of just being a god of a limited domain like fire or wine or whatever.

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I vote writers. The resolution is low so you can't really tell, but those dots in the second panel are a blow-up of the four-color printing process.

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it's not correct either

since flashpoint, each universe has its own darkseid (ie the shitty new 52 design is earth-0's darkseid), which are splinters of the original darkseid from pre-flashpoint.

It's easier to think of it as Flashpoint (or Manhattan, whatever) not affecting New Genesis and Apokolips, whilst it did effect every other universe, leading to the War of the Gods now taking place by proxy across the multiverse with "avatars" such as New-52 Orion (from Azz Wonder Woman) and Earth-2 Steppenwolff

Well it was canon until the Flashpoint retcon screwed canon to the point where nobody really knows what is what anymore.

I think that might just be an effect meant to convey reality in flux. The writer himself cited "Dream Of a Thousand Cats," which would refer to regular comic world people dreaming him into existence rather than real world writers.

They're the same thing.

Yeah, I'm against Morrison's take on the New Gods because I think it disconnects them too much.

>But,isn't Presence only inhabitant of God sphere in recent setttings?
No, he's the one true G-D.

So, as people in this thread said, Presence is only inhabitant of God sphere where religious pantheons reside?

People in this thread tell otherwise though.

No, The Presence isn't restricted to The God Sphere. OP, are you trying to start a

What a?
It is not only me but many people in this thsead that is confirming Presence not to be supreme.

Then who the fuck is?

People in this thread don't know shit, The Presence/Source is the High upon Highest.

Overmonitor?

>The Presence/Source is the High upon Highest.

Bullshit answer? The Overvoid. But I still say it's The Presence/Source/Hand aka vague Judeo-Christian God.

Personal bashing?
People in this thread took proof to prove their opinion.
What proof do you have?

I'm gonna say something controversial here but Carey's Lucifer does not count.

But isn't The Presence creation, and the Overmonitor basically nothing? It's kind of a chicken/egg thing here is it not?

>It's kind of a chicken/egg thing here is it not?
No as the Source came first Goddamnit.
..

Overmonitor is literally just the blank canvas DC comics are printed on. The only thing prior to that canvas is the writer himself.

DC multiverse created itself?
Or, everything come from Superman?
See infinite crisis?

Anyway Presence was created by imagination of people in DC multiverse.

Fuck you Morrison.

So, Which is higher between metafictional monitors and Presence?

But, DC official setting is based on Morrison's cosmology now.

Yeah and it's weird how I don't like it. I like Morrison and always appreciate his writing but fuck you Morrison for this overvoid and for making the new gods so damn lofty.

Why do you want the Presence to be above everything else in DC? That seems kind of boring compared to metafictional Superman thought robot and shit.

>Anyway Presence was created by imagination of people in DC multiverse.
Ok so why isn't it an alien God then?

They seem to be in Sphere of Gods too,aren't they?
Or, it is because that Earth is center of the universe.

>That seems kind of boring compared to metafictional Superman thought robot and shit.
But what can you actually do with that?

Different user, but I found the Thought Robot to be pretty boring. Maybe I missed something in Final Crisis, but isn't it a literal single-use plot device that was rolled out by Morrison to complete his ultimate evil vs. ultimate good story? It served its purpose in the story, and crumbled.

Is Thought Robot Superman being ultimate good boring?

Why does morrison so put importance on Superman?

Bump