What are some valid criticisms of Bojack Horseman?

What are some valid criticisms of Bojack Horseman?

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This first season was good, but I don't care for his roommate. I also disliked how they tried to justify him being jaded in the second season. I think the show should have shown him as just an abrasive jerk naturally and ended after season 2.

Todd is a useless character that adds nothing. Hollyhock provides innocent/emotional support a thousand times better.

A lot of the jokes/C-Plots don't land.

The animation is trash.

I'm not a furry

Beatrice and her father didn't do anything wrong.

Show has no direction, like mentions. It hits the same beats of "Bojack is a shitty person but is almost good but is still really shitty" over and over because he can't grow without leaving the show purposeless but he needs to try to grow to have any kind of story.

Weak first four episodes, that makes getting into the show a hurdle. Todd is a waste of space and Aaron Paul's way of feeling good about himself. No-one ever has anything bad to say about Todd, even when he's in the wrong; he is somehow right. The references will probably be dated soon and the show left itself in a really strong position, which the fifth and final season might fuck up.

And this is coming from a guy who really likes the show.

Depression/Neurosis porn.

The co-producer/art designer of Bojack Horseman, Lisa Hanawalt, is currently making another comedy animated series called Tuca & Bertie. I assume fans of Bojack would be interested.

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You must not have watched the 4th season

Art style is my least favorite thing about the show.

The art style is fine. It's just held back by the animation.

>Snakes with tits
I... Dont know I feel about this.

Be a good opportunity to see what Lisa Hanawalt is made of. I always felt that Raphael was the driving force behind Bojack.

Thanks for the heads up.

the 4th season drags because everything Bojack (and Carolyn to an extent but maybe thats cause she's one of my favorite characters) was doing was much more interesting then what the other characters were doing making it a slog to watch the B story plot lines , it also doesn't help that Diane, Todd, and Peanut Butter are at there worst this season making it drag further.

>I always felt that Raphael was the driving force behind Bojack.
I'm pretty sure he is. He saw her animal people pictures, and they were the source of his inspiration, but he attached that his own experience with Hollywood, his struggles with depression after an injury, and his character ideas, so the soul of the show seems to be mostly him. I'm guessing Hanawalt's show might look like Bojack Horseman, but feel very different.

1.) The artwork is ASS. FUCKING ASS. I love the show, but fucking hate the artwork. The artwork kept me from even looking at the show until after S2 aired. Fuck this artwork. Why draw more than the same 3-4 faces on EVERY FUCKING HUMAN when you can spend time drawing side-cuts, rainbow colored hair, and other hipster accessories on every background character? Lisa Hanawalt sucks ass as an artist and only got the job since she was friends with the head writer. You know how everyone praises the "silent" episode of S3? It's because the animation on that episode wasn't the usual ultra-simple shit, even if the artwork was still the same. Damn near every scene is the same lazy 3/4s side view, with specific exceptions.

2.) Putting political shit in there, period. There was none until S2 decided to touch on the Cosby thing, which was halfway funny when it wasn't trying to be preachy. They did it again in S3 with abortion. Halfway funny, until it got preachy. S4 does it again. To make matters worse, there was some interview where the head writer mentioned wanting to do MORE political shit in Bojack. This will probably be what ends up ruining the show.

3.) Todd. He goes from pointless WACKY COMIC RELIEF character to half-way decent simpleton foil for Bojack, to becoming asexual because the writers wanted to recreate a drama point. Now he has no real reason to tie into the show at all, so he has forced SO WACKY adventures that add nothing to the show period. If you think you wanted to fast-forward through Todd's scene's in S1, wait until you get to S4.

Those are my top 3 complaints. I would also give honorable mention to Uneven Writing, With Plot Points Abandoned or Not Making Sense With Prior Plot Points.(The whole thing with Penny just doesn't wash)

Takes soooo long to get to season 4, which makes it stand out from nearly every other adult cartoon I can think of at the moment.
And I'm having a really hard time explaining it, but you'll know it when you see it.

The birds have tits as well. As you know, only mammals have nipples. It appears to be quite bizarre and fetish-y.

Everything about the show is awful and fucking sucks except the animal puns.

I agree with the second criticism the most. When it comes to feminist issues, all subtlety goes out the window. All the "humor" is telegraphed and delivered in these overly simplistic ways, with strawman arguments. It's like "I am a man and I hate women. LOL don't abort your gun fetuses."

The show's not always subtle or clever, but when it comes to these issues, it feels like they lose all their cleverness in the delivery. And this is coming from someone who (at least partially) agrees with the messages they're trying to convey.

There are some pretty iffy B characters and plots that just pad out the episode and runtime, like most of Todd's shit. I thought Princess Carolyn's boyfriend Vincent (the three kids standing on each other's shoulders ) was never funny, and the joke just got more annoying and worse over time.

Many of the more dramatic moments of sincerity and feeling are undercut by stupid jokes and one liners. It became more apparent to me on a rematch. Sometimes it's bearable, other times it feels like the writers are too cowardly to let a dramatic scene or moment play out, so they have to undercut it by having some lame joke break the tension. Those kind of jokes were sometimes funny on the first watch, but I've noticed on successive watches that these cheap throwaway jokes almost never hold up, they are unfunny, and they ruin any dramatic tension or weight that was built up prior.

So mainly I would knock it for lots of crummy filler and for a lack of bravery and sincerity.

It's shit

>successful watches

You sure it isn't just diminishing returns?

>(The whole thing with Penny just doesn't wash
Not really sure what you mean by this

oh man, fucking todd. he was bad enough already, but the asexual thing almost put me off the show completely. they had to make it a big thing. like, you don't want to fuck, literally no one cares except potential partners. honestly most of the rest of the B characters and their respective subplots are boring and shitty too
also agree with you on the political shit, but so far at least it's been contained in like one or two episodes per season

>There was none until S2 decided to touch on the Cosby thing
Excuse me?

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Todd

Not political, just touching on Bojack being a self-absorbed asshole. What was political about that?

The changeover from S2 to S3 didn't make any sense, her reaction to him in S3 felt more like a reaction from the writers about all the Penny/Bojack shipping from fans than anything else. She went from being a lot like her mother in terms of personality to "OMG YOU WERE ABOUT TO LET ME FUCK YOU LIKE I WANTED TO NEARLY A YEAR AGO, I WAS ONLY 17!!!" That shit was beyond weird.

Was funny for two seasons. Got SJW politics in season 3.
Dropped in like 2 episodes

How did you get triggered by Hank Hippopotamus or whatever when Diane has been a character since episode 1

It's not funny.
It has some funny moments, but overall it just seems depressing.
It kind of reminds me of Hunter S. Thompson. It's brilliant, but it has this strong melancholic undertone that seems to overshadow it's jokes
But to be honest, I have no idea what I'm rambling on about. And I do watch and like the show.

>snakes with tits

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The emotional whiplash and comedy can be jarring at times and I dislike how bojack is belittled, ignored or mocked for not wanting his mother around- and is then faulted for being proven right.

The todd hate perplexes me. I don't see him as harmful in any real way. He is the closest to normal, a borderline audience cipher since we're unlikely to be hollywoo movers, shakers or involved at all. Todd is our window into this world

Not enough Mr. Peanut Butter sex scenes

Todd's post-Season 2 shenanigans grow increasingly outlandish and divorced from the tone and realities of the show's universe; they're just so juvenile, protracted, and dull.

All the parts about America's military worship are super political.

1) The art style is pure ass. There is no arguing this.

2) The emotional revelations the characters have are completely meaningless, as they always thrown out the very next episode. It doesn't help that they want _every_ episode to have a minimum of 3-4 "heart to heart moments", regardless if it makes sense or not.

3) As the show continued on, they became more comfortable shoving their personal politics into the show. Unfortunately, they have the subtlety of a bear in a kindergarten class.

I agree, the animation needs to be less cartoony.

Diane is a cunt, Todd is unsufferable nowadays.

Only if you believe America worships the military.

Slow news day story turns into celeb acting like fool, news milks it for everything it's worth. You could have changed it from Navy Seal to another celeb or politician or even a nun and it would have played out the same. They cry to the news that Bojack was mean, news contacts Bojack, Bojack goes full retard. They didn't attempt to make any point, other than Bojack was self absorbed. The other episodes from later seasons were ABOUT the political issue, this episode was about Bojack being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole. You take out the politics you see, the episode is still the same. You can't do that with the actual political episodes.

Todd's comedy antics wear real fuckin thin real fuckin fast.

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It continued past the first season.

ugly art, slow start

some episodes are hit and miss

Not enough porn

Waaay too much Mr. Peanutbutter and Todd this past season.

I don’t understand Mr. Peanutbutter.

The first two seasons were ok but too many of the jokes don't hit.

Season 3 was basically a big middle finger to any sort of character growth that Bojack had just because they wanted to force a "LOL! He's depressed." message/finale again. The whole main plot of "he felt nothing even though he got an oscar" is moot because he didn't actually do anything to win the oscar so of course he didn't feel an accomplishment

Season 3 was so bad I dropped the show

I want to see Mr. Peanutbutter get all depressed (after getting dumped by Diane?) and getting a very BoJack vibe to himself similar just like when BoJack tried to get a brand new attitude at the start of season 2 and started behaving like Mr. Peanutbutter.

Then they get on a super bender together after which Mr Peanutbutter loses all admiration to BoJack and returns to his old life while BoJack gets all depressed and shits on himself for losing Mr Peanutbutter.

Yeah, the animation could do with being less stiff and flash-y. And more than 3/4th view as pointed out- It seems to be a problem with most cartoons though, so it seems symptomatic of a larger problem in general.

Horsey sauce

pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/09/i-do-not-like-the-sad-horse-show.html

waterd down duckman with worse writing and characters

>I assume fans of Bojack would be interested.
you assume wrong

>His room mate Todd is frustratingly stupid and childish that its more annoying that charming or funny
>Sometimes the show feels drawn out and meandering at this point. I'm not sure of it's end game.

This is coming from a fan of the show who looks forward to each season.

It's boring.

This would have been much more appropriate at the end of season 3, not 4.

Every season has at least one awful soap box episode.
Like the women/gun episode.

As like 10 posts have said, Todd has and always will be one of the weakest characters snd pretty pointless. In season 1 he was that lame side character new shows try to have thinking theyll be a breakout hit and every season after that he had to be added to the plot or given his own little unimportant side plot that went nowhere by the end of the seadon because he would abandon it. I hate whenever he is mad at Bojack not because Bojack is getting shit (since it is usually justified) but because I feel like he adds nothing to society or anything in the show. I dont like writing off characters completely but since this is animation they could easily have Aaron Paul voice someone else

Most of what I'll say has been said but basically
Weaker characters like todd
a slow start that didn't pick up for a few episodes in
a weaker, more politically biased feel to the second and partially third season
characters just going full unlikable, like Diane and her shit gun control episode and whiny library bullshit
a bit of a static, unable to change feel from characters like bojack, though I think season 4 definitely helped to fix this a bit.
Over all, a good show but not perfect.

THIS. Regardless the show is good.

>Woman doing comedy cartoon
>Snakes with tits...

Im interested

I don't really get the politics thing. It wasn't awfully handled or well handled. The abortion shit with the star faking it was pretty funny and well done.

I think it's my lack of understanding why everything needs to be funny (and the other extreme, everything needs to character-based) because frankly funny is nice, but I'd rather have good plot anytime.

What other people said about Todd, I agree with. Wish they'd find a way to revisit him and bojack's friendship.

Also Raphael is making a new show for Amazon coming next year