Is Batman really a noble superhero out for justice in Gotham or an insane manchild enacting an equally insane fantasy...

Is Batman really a noble superhero out for justice in Gotham or an insane manchild enacting an equally insane fantasy that hurts a lot of people?

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>Batman really a noble superhero out for justice in Gotham
Before DKR

>insane manchild enacting an equally insane fantasy that hurts a lot of people
After DKR

Read White Knight to find out

Does it matter? The universe would be destroyed many times if wasnt for him.

Basically. No sane man would would dress like a Bat to beat up criminals with his fists. But no one can deny he has saved the world numerous times.

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Both ya dummy, that's the point

White knight isn't a good example though, since they change multiple things to make a narrative that batman's way of doing things are detrimental. The biggest thing being that the white knight version of joker isn't a psychotic murderer of thousands of people constantly being let off by a corrupt system.

to add on to it, it's a good story and I've enjoyed it, but you can't really use it for an argument.

>Basically. No sane man would would dress like a Bat to beat up criminals with his fists.
Why people give only Batman shit for this?

There are hundreds of super heroes with other gimmicks, and even amial gimmicks on the DC universe - but if Bruce does that its because he is crazy.

Are the other ones crazy too?

People just like to be shits, it's mostly just a meme

>noble superhero out for justice
he puts out fires, tops. He can't save gotham, only keep it form killing itself. since gotham seems to want to die it comes off like his attempts are more because of his ego than any heroics

Did the other heroes all fixate to an unhealthy degree on something that scared them as a child and assume it would scare the shit out of everyone else like it did them when they were children?

Yes

Gotham just doesn't want to be fixed. It's like trying to breed pandas. Or Marvel civilians.

if I can slip in an addendum, there's so much Batman animated series wanking happening in it, it's really more an elseworld of the Timmverse than any tangible connection to mainline comics Batman

Batman is one of the big names so of course, he gets it the most.

its a mix. I mean we see the tumbler from nolan films running over buildings, right? + you have it taking a shit on the "new" Harley, while attributing needless "independent woman" points to old Harley

I don't know, I'm just sick of writers rehashing the latter in misguided attempts at being deep.

It's not about animals in general. It's about bats. Nobody likes bats, nobody takes them seriously past age 7, but Bruce Wayne uses the motif because he honestly thinks criminals will be afraid of the guy in the bat suit
Other heroes aren't that autistic. they either wear a costume because they think it looks cool/cute or they're forced to by sponsors

>It's not about animals in general. It's about bats. Nobody likes bats, nobody takes them seriously past age 7, but Bruce Wayne uses the motif because he honestly thinks criminals will be afraid of the guy in the bat suit

This is some of the dumbest shit I have ever read on a board filled with dumb shit. This is the sort of Pseudo Philosophy that is ruining comics. I have never seen an audience that is so obsessed with dissecting the tropes that allow said medium to exist. I mean come the fuck on its like watching Rambo and wondering how he isn't dead or watching Star Wars and asking how the force works. Fucking dumb.

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bats are cool and less played out than wolves

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Superheroes are an escapist fantasy for those dissatisfaction with real authority but it is unsustainable.

So the difference between two options presented is in how realistic you want it. Realistically, Batman (and most superheroes) are nuts and childish and probably do more harm than good, but in fantasy they are infalliable and can dress in whatever they want too.

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> Realistically, Batman (and most superheroes) are nuts and childish and probably do more harm than good
Yeah, fuck those guys for saving out of control airplanes, stopping nuclear meltdowns, and driving away alien invaders.

Superheroes comics like Hollywood movies are mostly Jewish revenge fantasies.

This is 100% wrong. He chose a bat because of personal inspiration but the reason he chose an inhuman identity is so that criminals would associate him with a larger than life myth rather than just some vigilante. What the fuck do you think the whole superstitious and cowardly lot spiel was about?

Why are there so many out of control airplanes? Its like killing the poor, yes if you kill the poor they will be gone but the system that generated them will generate more and since you are removing them there will be no fix.

>kill the poor
I see you Luthor

Clearly it's Jello Biafra

Generally the gimmicks relate to their powers. Batman however does not have bat powers. His fixation on them comes off as unwarranted and slightly disturbing

>slightly disturbing
That's the point dumbass. He wants to disturb criminals and make them fear him. To some he's some kook in a mask, but still a kook that effortlessly wrecks every criminal in Gotham. Some people have to ask, can someone like that even exist, or be human if he does? Myths form, rumors spread, and criminals one way or another fear the Batman. That's his method

Basically this

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This a moviefag idea, everyone fucking knows Batman is real he's in the goddamn Justice League

It also has the same effect on civilians. It shouldn't then be surprising when even readers thinks he comes off as some look in a mask.

This isn’t a good example. Have to agree with other user on this. They change a lot to make it look like bats is crazy.

Criminals are by nature superstitious and paranoid. Stories turn into legends with them since they communicate by word of mouth since they avoid doing things in writing, you know being criminals. And what starts as a story of a man in a bat suit turns into a tale of bat creature who preys on criminals

>pseudo philosophy
>dissecting tropes
As early as the damn Golden Age it was established that Batman dressed as a bat because he thought it would scare criminals. That's a fact. It's also a fact that bats are stupid and not scary to anybody with a brain
Get over yourself, this is surface level analysis of the character. You'd probably get mad if I said "Batman beats up criminals."

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>recurrent horror motif for several centuries
>"not scary to anybody with a brain"

>a noble superhero out for justice in Gotham or an insane manchild enacting an equally insane fantasy that hurts a lot of people?

I dont see how these two ideas are exclusive to each other. Bruce Wayne IS as insane as his rogues gallery, he's obesssed with this idea of brutal punishment and at the same a naive, almost childish, idea of justice. At the same time he tries to do good with just his money, charities and creating jobs, etc.

Bruce Wayne IS insane, he IS a psychopath but that does not exclude the fact that he is also noble towards certain people while gladly brutalizes another group of people.

>That's a fact. It's also a fact that bats are stupid and not scary to anybody with a brain
Just fucking stop user I fucking hate you people so much. The fuck man, bats are fucking terrifying especially in numbers. Most people know that they are relatively harmless but they do frighten people they are associated with Devil for a reason. Its the same thing with crows and snakes.

Does it hurt to be so right all the time?

Goats are most strongly associated with the devil. Should he have been goatman?
Bats are vermin and trigger the same revulsion in people rats and cockroaches do. Should he have been rat/roachman?

Holy shit, how stupid are you?

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user what the fuck are you even talking about anymore. He fell down a fucking hole as a kid, the Bats scared him so he have a preconceived reason for choosing bats. now as an crime-fighter he seeks to Elicit the same dread so boom! He chooses bats how is this so fucking hard to grasp. Maybe if he was raped by a goat as a kid he would have picked a fucking goat because he would have:
A: an reason to and
B: goats can be pretty creepy

You fucking happy now user god I fucking hate you people. Comic book fans are some of the dumbest people on the face of the fucking planet.

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Not the same user but
>hurr durr time for retarded semantics!!!
Fuck off dude, youre a moron.

DiddyKongRacing?

So he projects personal traumas on to others under the assumption others will be as afraid as he is himself?

I for one would love to see a story about a dark avenger who dresses up as a clown because one frightened him as a child.

Its a symbolic thing you fucking retard. Most people jump when a bat comes swooping down and at you. And as the story goes, criminals have come to fear The Bat. He's not literally thinking people fear him because his costume vaguely resembles a bat.

Why can't he be both?

I think it would be more symbolically powerful if he could make criminals come to fear the clown.

>I for one would love to see a story about a dark avenger who dresses up as a clown because one frightened him as a child

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>So he projects personal traumas on to others under the assumption others will be as afraid as he is himself?

user please, I bet popping out a Snake on the train would freak people out. Am I projecting my fears user?

Jesus you people try too hard.

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And I think it would be powerfully if you stuck the barrel of a loaded shotgun in your mouth and pulled the trigger.

Noble superhero out for justice in Gotham, and only edgy non comic readers will tell you otherwise.

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Why is Clark dressed as Batman?

>virgin Nolan "I fear bats, I will make my enemies fear them" Batfagg
>Chad Frank Miller "after fucking up my first attempt to fight crime I wanted to die, but a bat flight through the window and I took it as an omen from my dead parents to not give up and keep fighting" Batman Year one

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I'd still like to know what kind of bat can shatter a glass window

The Jester is the hero Gotham city deserves

>Chad Frank Miller "after fucking up my first attempt to fight crime I wanted to die, but a bat flight through the window and I took it as an omen from my dead parents to not give up and keep fighting" Batman Year one

You fucking casual. I see you pretending that you read comics. He still fell down the well and on the drive home after failing he remarked that they don't fear him so he didn't know what to try so he saw the bat flying throw his window as an omen. So he became a Bat.

Fucking noob you people are the worst, pretend that you know what you are talking about all the while just spewing bullshit.

The omen kind

Because contrary to casual belief, Batman cares a lot about the people he protects, and Wayne Enterprise contributes millions of dollars to the city's infrastructure.

Shhh..... user. Sean Murphy might hear you.

But seriously I think people here have just been here repeating the same shit to the point that they start to believe it themselves.

Proof that Propaganda actually work even on people not deprived of the truth.

So what you're saying is Clark Kent is actually Batman and owns Wayne enterprises? I knew that Bruce Wayne fag didn't actually know how to run a company.

Isn't Murphy the author of that White Knight book? I read the first issue and dropped it. Same with Tynion, it's drivel.

You know, there's a huge difference between being scared of bats and being scared of a guy coming at you in the dark dressed in black body suit thing.

the latter.

gotham is full of crime because poverty is never addressed. he's a liberal capitalist vigilante that would be jealous of the acts of antifa while still pushing a capitalist status quo.

bats have been my favorite animal since childhood other than hedghehogs, echidnas, hummingbirds, turtles, frogs, arctic terns and various sea life.

bats are the most successful mammal other than rodents on the planet. there are bats on every continent except antarctica. the only native mammal to new zealand is a bat. there are bats that eat bugs, bats that drink blood, bats that catch frogs, bats that catch minnows, bats that drink nectar and fertilize cacti forests, and bats that eat fruit to help replenish rainforests when they poop out the seeds.

in china, bats are a symbol of good luck, which is why the logo for Bat Conservation International is a chinese bat logo. BCI is based in Austin, Texas and was started by Merlin Tuttle, who has appeared on Reading Rainbow with Lavar Burton.

i like man-bat more than batman and bats are one of the reasons i'm interested in environmentalism. if DC wanted to write some compelling stories, they'd make aquaman, poison ivy and swamp-thing team up to become eco terrorists.

adults like bats.

user you're a weirdo

Swampy and ivy do have a fair amount of team ups and Arthur doesn't really care about the environment, only that nobody respects his sovereignity over the oceans

Yea, that's the one. Damn Bat-books these days aren't worth the paper they are printed on

>im kino

>Dagonet
>Costumed jester who exposes corrupt officials, gang leaders, and public enemies in humiliating fashion
I'd read it.

no, bats are an essential part of valuable ecosystems because genetic diversity is key to a healthy and variated environment.

polluting the ocean would mean his sovereignty is being disrespected then.

google search "great pacific garbage patch"

I bet you read the Silverwing youth novels

Well yes. He's not actually an environmentalist, he just wants the humans to fuck off with their shit

i haven't, actually. are they as good as Redwall and Animorphs? also if you don't like bats and environmentalism, why are you on Sup Forums? have you read We3? if you haven't you fucking better.

that ain't gonna happen if human civilization is capitalist

You're not providing a strong argument against your weirdoness

>just wants the humans to fuck off with their shit
That's an environmentalist

Batman's psychotic sublimative psycho-erotic behaviour is like a net. Weak egoed neurotics like Joker and Two face, are drawn into corresponding intersecting patterns.
You might say, Batman commits the crimes, using his so called villains as narcissistic proxies.

He started out as the latter, but knows that he should be the former. It's the whole (modern) reason for him raising robins, he wants sees a young Bruce inside of them, and he wants to help them avoid make the mistakes he made along the way.

>rich as fuck

>hes most famous sidekick is his butler

how the hell did he become popular with the plebs anyway?lol

>hes most famous sidekick is his butler

Are you sure about that

Hugo Strange get the fuck out of here

>It's the whole (modern) reason for him raising robins, he wants sees a young Bruce inside of them

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>It's the whole (modern) reason for him raising robins, he wants sees a young Bruce inside of them

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The barbatos kind.

Can't he be both?

Why not both? He can't be mentally scarred AND a defender of justice?

I'm thinking of streaming a couple of episodes of Batman TAS.
Would anyone be up to join it?
Which episodes would you suggest?

Shut up Dobson, you're a fucking idiot.

He's a very angry man with a lot of money who's just trying to fix his fucked up town the best way he can. By day, he throws fundraisers and donates to charities and makes his city a nicer place to work in.

By night, he beats the ever-living fuck out of criminals to make his city a worse place to be a criminal in. And there ain't no fund you can donate to that'll stop Joker from trying to put smiley AIDS in the water supply again.

He removes the justifications for crime outside of greed and weird "I want blow world up it make me haha very lots, everyone sick like me secretly", "I really fucking love drugs and mexican wrestling", "Scaring people gets me hard", "I like fucking with people", "the coin made me do it", "Fuck you I'm a crocodile", and "I need extreme money for this research, don't ask why I don't ask the magic dudes for help curing my wife" shit. So he can punch the fuck out of the terrorists, the eco-terrorists, and the drug kingpins and anyone fucked in the head enough to work for them with a straight face.

Taking this at "Haha silly man dress up punch baddy it silly he dumb" face value is as shallow as the usual Boomer humor. What's your next observation, that Superman wearing undies on his pants is silly?

Who's writing him for the purposes of this question?

>There are hundreds of super heroes with other gimmicks, and even amial gimmicks on the DC universe - but if Bruce does that its because he is crazy.
>Are the other ones crazy too?
Now that you mentioned it, you really bring up a good point as most heroes when given an opportunity to stop, refuse and keep going because "a hero's work is never done" whereas Bruce's motivation is a little less clear. Still, end result is that they're all people that dress up in spandex and fight crime. Obviously not the norm.

>Why people give only Batman shit for this?

they dont like batman, just read op's stupid pst, it's clear that this thread it's to bitch about batman for the crime of being more liked than their favorite character
Casual

>whereas Bruce's motivation is a little less clear.

How?

I find it very hard to distinguish Batman's motives for crime fighting. While I view his original intention as to avenge the death of his parents I think as he's continued in his career, his motivations have become a little less altruistic. The interpretation of Batman I'm most familiar with is a version that will continue to Batman until his death and by that point the only reason he's being Batman is because he's incapable of giving it up. He refuses to allow others to assume control of an operation and his ego is absolutely unstoppable and thinks the world would be better with his interference. At this point his motivations have gone far beyond avenging his parents and have delved into maniacal ideas of control (DCAU & Justice Lords Batman). Keep in mind he has build multiple versions of Brother Eye and we all know how that turned out. He may be a crime fighter, but to say he's entirely altruistic isn't quite true.

Then again, everything I've posted could be completely wrong as I've been drinking and may be misremembering

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>hedghehogs
uhoh

that's wrong