Why does G.I. Joe have a much harder time rebooting itself?

Compared to its other Hasbro counterparts like Transformers which managed to climb out of the rut it got in the 90s thanks to Beast Wars. G.I. Joe only suffered thanks to XTREME. Hell they even tried the outsourcing path along the lines of Transformers Armada with G.I. Joe Sigma Six which basically failed as well. Which then basically leads us into the Hub days where both Transformers got a new show Transformers Prime and G.I. Joe got Renegades. Again the Transformers show became more fondly remembered and praised while Renegades was left in the dust and sorely forgotten.

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we live in a world where goatfuckers can oppose the might of a modern army but hiding innacave and using surplus weaponry, repurposed demolutions equipment, and raw spite to draw out a war until a populace gets sick of it.

the real way to oppose groups like that is long term occupation, education, and cultural indoctrination which is how Alexander the Great conquered afghanistan.

the world, quite simply, has moved on from the USA being able to solve its problems by bombing them into submission. We haven't just had one vietnam, we're down 2, more depending on how you view limited engagements before Bush Jr.'s iraq war.

combine that with video games taking over the market share of toys and the death of the saturday morning cartoon and you're seeing not just a major cultural shift but a significant loss of funding for toyetic series.

Americans aren't as patriotic
Terrorism is a serious topic
CoD and Battlefield entertain kids more if they want military stuff
Toys aren't as cool as Transformers and kids toys are dying in general

Largely thanks to politics, the nature of war changing, and the US fucking up the word "Terrorist".

Not only that, but G.I.Joe could have possibly survived if it went the Metal Gear Solid route, but then it wouldnt have survived anyway because Metal Gear Solid already exists. That, and making corrupt parts of the government a hidden enemy kind of goes against what G.I.Joe originally stood for. Again though, that's part of the changing of the times.

Ultimately G.I.Joe filled a niche, and now that niche is no longer popular.

but what about GI Joe Renegade? It flipped the tables the Joes were on the run and Cobra were the big CEO company controlling America and fooling the public.

Seriously I dont get how that show did not catch on it was the change G.I. Joe needed but it failed to gain an audience.

GI JOE ARAH is so 80s it only works in the 80s

THIS. GI Joe peaked in the 80s with Hama.

I dunno man, that one was fun. I liked it, but the execs had no faith in it, toy sales are down, and they didn't try to back it up with stuff like mobile games or whatever.

Keep in mind shit like this needs to be funded. The OG Joes were funded after regulations forbidding TV Shows from marketing directly to children were repealed.

that stuff is still around but why spend like 8 bucks on an action figure when kids these days are usually spending twice that on mobile game skinner boxes? The saturday morning cartoon show is dead and TV studios don't know how to handle the rise of streaming services.

simple fact is renegades didn't seem to get the automatic success execs wanted so they canned it and didn't even give the toys a chance to succeed.

the funds for shows like that just don't exist any more.

I liked the show. It was a shame it got canned

Even the Transformers live action movies blew up more than the G.I. Joe ones. The franchise just does not work anymore. Transformers showed it can change itself to fucking robots who can change into animals and other random shit and be perfectly fine.

G.I Joe tried almost fucking everything. Smaller Team sizes,more focus on character building, Changing the setting up to fit with modern times and even a darker edgy rendition and NOTHING caught on.

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You also need to look at what G.I.Joe offers:

Fighting of terrorists, corruption and/or corrupt entities? Plenty of live action shows do that, and do it better.

Guns, tanks, planes, helicopters, and bombs? Someone already said it: video games do it better.

Ninjas? Video games again, and even then Ninjas arent anywhere near as popular as they were 25-30 years ago.

Good ol' american hero? Again, just about every other form of media does it better, and even then conservatives and the modern US army have sullied the "Good ol" image of the American military. We're not the symbol of liberation anymore; we've been considered world police, imperialists, and terrorists are selves. That alone goes against the spirit of G.I.Joe.

They’re in the wrong media by today’s standards.
The US armed forces aren’t the good guys in the common man’s eyes or their kids. Captain America is, and even he’s gone rogue.

GI Joe is better off as a videogame. Look at Overwatch, dislike it how much you want but it’s basically Sci Fi Military Combat. Exactly the type of thing GI Joe sets out to do.

The stories can hardly work in today’s climate, they tried a nice revival a couple of years ago but botched the ending, left everyone hanging and now what the hell are they doing?
Skywarp is a part of the team? They’re on Cybertron? Snake Eyes has his mind downloaded to another person?

Seriously. Get a decent VG studio and switch gears.

HISS tank hype in retaliation

never even moved in the battle scene.

Renegades WAS the change that G.I. Joe needed but it just failed. Had no hope from Hasbro and the toys bombed.

Kids cartoons were easing up to realistic guns slowly but steadily after 9/11
Then the Aurora shooting happened and fucked everything up
Nowadays, we have shootings left and right so realistic guns aren't happening any time soon
I guarantee you this, if GI Joe showed up in modern day with laser pistols and shit, kids would laugh, call it gay, and just go back to playing CoD

>even then Ninjas arent anywhere near as popular as they were 25-30 years ago.

doesn't help that ninjas now got to be walking WMDs because of naruto.

>blaming conservatives when almost all modern wars were fought under democrat presidents

>No longer relevant (remember when Snake Eyes was considered one of the most popular ninjas in pop culture?)
>Renegades canned after 1 season
>Sitterson not closing his mouth
>Movies bombed
>Is almost as an 80s relic as He-Man (and even He-Man can still adapt to modern day easily since its not bound by military shit)
This franchise is cursed
Hasbro keeps it alive from time to time and there's that Bishoujo line coming up along with Horse but still, this IP is cursed or something

Rainbow 6 Siege is what you are looking for. Its essentially the modern G.I. Joe video game imo.

Seriously why hasn't anyone made this comparison yet?

>Multi Cultural Team formed to fight the threat of global terrorism
>Teams recruit the best and brightest from armed forces around the globe
>Each character has their own code name and special gadget(Toy accessory)

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Renegades was invisible.

In the 80's, there were a lot less cartoons for kids to choose from. Now there's so many products out there and so many channels that most people don't even notice when a GI Joe show exists.

didn't people hate the multi national team from the first movie?

It's not cursed. It just doesnt have anything going for it in terms of TV or movies.

G.I.Joe's only realistic chance of survival is in online video game format, and even then it's competing with industry giants CoD, Battlefield, and CounterStrike.

GIJoe could offer some differences in game play if it were to potentially adopt a sort of unreal tournament meets TF2 gamestyle, but again the odds are long and completely dependent on who's producing it.

>BBQ = Thermite
>White Out = Buck
>Scarlett = Ash
>Lady Jaye = Valkyrie
>Roadblock = Castle
>Doc = Doc
>Ivan Nikolevich Brekhov = Tachanka
>Horrorshow = Fuze
>Big Bear = Kapkan

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I never thought of Siege like that but damn now that you mention it I can not see the resemblance.

Rainbow 6
Battlefield
Army Men
Starcraft
Warhammer Vermintide
TF2

There's a ton of games GIJoe could emulate, and offer its own spin on. Problem is a company like EA or Ubisoft will end up picking up the franchise and ruining its chances.

>Think G.I. Joe could get a triple A company

Broski this IP couldn't even get a mobile game to survive

The cartoon and comic industries are slightly left of che guevera now. There's no shortage of army guys and guns and fucking up terrorists out there that people are willing to spend money on.
The natural game format for GI joe is a shooter. Either first or third person.

how does the arcade game hold up today?

The old Konami game was based on Devestators engine. It's really weird in it's shooting mechanics and has no plot or character. It does use actual TV show designs for the shit you shoot at.

The movie game was fucking terrible. I never tried the phone game, but it looked like a ccg.

This

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Muh police actions

Shit like TF2 and Overwatch proved you can make a game out of soldier or x character with a gimmick and that people. Metal Gear and Call of Duty proved you can make games with soldiers and military.

Clearly GI Joe needs to be a video game.

Came out in a dead network, if it was in Cartoon Network around the time kids come back from school then it would have been another story.

>The franchise just does not work anymore
We live in the age were people accept Captain America and other characters from the 40's and 60's.

Just give them an update and work around them, Renegades was good but it was doomed from the start when it premiered in the HUB.

but people view cap in the "good old days when america can't do no wrong" even if people (like fury) tell him "times changed".

Because it doesn't need to be "rebooted". They got it right the first time with the Marvel comics.

>we live in a world where goatfuckers can oppose the might of a modern army but hiding innacave and using surplus weaponry, repurposed demolutions equipment, and raw spite to draw out a war until a populace gets sick of it.
>the real way to oppose groups like that is long term occupation, education, and cultural indoctrination which is how Alexander the Great conquered afghanistan.
>the world, quite simply, has moved on from the USA being able to solve its problems by bombing them into submission. We haven't just had one vietnam, we're down 2, more depending on how you view limited engagements before Bush Jr.'s iraq war.
the real problem is that modern morality and ethics prevent us from doing the most practical solution, which is glassing that entire region of the planet with nuclear fire

>if it was in Cartoon Network around the time kids come back from school then it would have been another story.
Yeah, they would have regularly aired half a season then switch to a bomb format, completely fucking the pacing and killing interest in the show.

I think they could really stand to pull in stuff from Extreme. In particular SKAR could be used to change the dynamic and bring in a new ideology to be contrasted with the Joes and Cobra.

Renegades was great but being on The Hub killed it. How did they expect a show to reach a proper audience when most people had zero access to the channel? If it had been on CN/Toonami, I think it would have at least gotten a second season. Though it probably didn't help that the character designer died.

>the real problem is that modern morality and ethics
and oil wells, and needing to keep the land unradiated for israelis.

iron klaw had such charisma that when he "died", the movement "died" with him (most of his troops abandoned their posts out of heartbreak).

pretty stark difference between cobra commander and serpentor.

Not at the time it came out.

Not really, before First Avenger came out I recall a lot of people online that didn't care about comics where complaining about how outdated he was, how non-Americans wouldn't like him, how his movie was going to bomb so hard, how they shouldn't even be doing a movie about him because of American Imperialism etc... etc... Now I can say without a doubt Steve is one of the most loved characters of the MCU.

>the real way to oppose groups like that is long term occupation, education, and cultural indoctrination which is how Alexander the Great conquered afghanistan.
>the real problem is that modern morality and ethics prevent us from doing the most practical solution, which is glassing that entire region of the planet with nuclear fire
>These are literally your only two options, never half ass anything. That's how WWI becomes WWII.

I think the concept of transforming fighting robots is more appealing than a group of soldiers especially to kids.

But how would we protect our sweet sweet oil... I mean protect the world from radical extremists, but seriously these guy are lucky as shit that their desert is loaded with precious resources

Only Transformers and TMNT survived out of the 80's and MLP managed to make a comeback (but not the way Hasbro was expecting).

ut most 80's properties have trouble staying relevant.

Multinational teams I think are no-gos in this day in age when one can root for the hometeam.

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We have our own oil you maniac. And wars just fuck up production and drive up costs.

>(but not the way Hasbro was expecting)
Don’t meme yourself. Little girls are still the primary and most economically advantageous demographic for mlp, just as they always were.

We are already buddy-buddy with several oil rich nations in that area and have significant reserves of our own, even back then before fracking. Iraq 2 was corporate welfare for various government contractors.

Hasbro is too scared to go full jingoistic 80's Red Dawn with GI Joe, so therefore any new attempts at the franchise will be limp-wristed at best.

Part of the fun was how much "America, fuck yeah!" it was. Having a diverse cast was better when even though everyone was of a different heritage, they were all American. Nowadays, they do too much of making GI-Joe a UN style force instead of an American one, so they can use the show in different markets.

...That shit doesn't work, and just sorta waters GI Joe down to the point where it becomes something that doesn't leave a blip. In order to make a good Joe show, they are going to have to make something that is either hot or cold, not lukewarm.

Can confirm, Captain America merch sells well here in the UK.

everywhere but Germany lmao.

didn't IDW try that?

still didn't work.

Still doesn't have as hard a time as Jem.

I'm not sure which series you're talking about.

the hot and cold, not lukewarm. thing.

they did serious covert stuff, didn't work.
they tried doing the "public knows us", didn't work.

Light hearted military adventures are a bit harder to write in this day and age especially when most of the writers are left-leaning.

Larry Hama is left leaning. He's a libertarian minded democrat. Most of the writers nowadays are so far off the reservation that even the idea of using millitary force is triggering to them.

I agree, I think an X-Com style game would sell pretty well, especially if you used classic characters and designs.

which is ironic when you consider most leftists want to ban guns and only want the government to protect them.

>G.I Joe tried almost fucking everything
Except being fun.

Yeah but who profits once everybody elses oils are fucked up?

I don't mean making it hardcore, I meant making it more patriotic.

They haven't tried tactical waifus yet.

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G.I. Joe does not work today because it isn't escapism, it's real life on TV. The US has been involved in public and unpopular conflicts with too much shady shit for too long for people to get excited for American army is the good guy stories.

Tactical Waifu?

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G.I joe should have just followed the MGS line, that is, silly dumb ideas with realistic color palette.

Also trips confrims

considering the wild popularity of Girls and Panzers and the cult hit status of Youjo Senki, I firmly believe that GI Joe can succeed with Tactical Waifus.

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Man GI Joe dealing with corrupt parts of the government goes back to the original Hama run.

It had decent ratings, enough to get an S2, but the movie's toy debacle and one of the producers dying fucked things up.

ah.

i guess they should refrain from using IRL scenarios then (or at least ones that can be seen as 'this was derived from x').

Hama's writing a continuation of that continuity and it's a lot better than the current GI Joe comic that Sitterson's putting out.

Haven't they?

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Because the cartoon is too childish and cheesy, the more "grounded" and character oriented comic is too obscure and continuity driven to people who didn't grow up reading it in the 80s/90s and only a handful of hardcore fans care about military toys these days. It's impossible to pander to all three demographics. The first live action movie tried to do the cartoon thing which nobody liked, the second one was more like the comic but being a direct sequel undermined its chances at success due to the fruit of a poisoned tree syndrome, because it almost entirely killed off the original cast while introducing bunch of new characters who all didn't all get their moment to shine, because the Rock was the biggest main character and Bruce Willis stole all the remaining scenes.

They should make gijoes as adventure science research team

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Hama at least has a wide political knowledge and is open minded

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I find it hilarious reading Buzzer's bio and consider how in the Sunbow cartoon he's a goddamn retard.

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Not cute enough, and what's with that simple equipment? That won't sell toys.

Clearly you never seen or read gi joe

they could reset the Fox X-Men/mutant universe and put GI Joe program in that universe as something similar to SHIELD fighting COBRA and maybe some other groups, but have them eventually break off from the US gov and/or UN when they start to want them to round up mutants who haven't done anything bad. They can then be funded by some rich mutants or people sympathetic to mutants to help protect and rescue mutants from some governments and other groups of the world and to continue to fight bad guys that don't have much to do with mutants. you might have to find a reason for them to not use guns however as they seem to be getting disliked among americans more and more. they might have to start using lasers and other weapons. that might be easier to do around the future time period shown in days of future past, but I'm not sure what they might do if they wanted GI Joe groups to exist much earlier than that.

They could even work in transformers and beast machines if they wanted. Beast machines at least for some period of time could be related to conventional transformers and they landed on earth long ago. earth had people living alongside dinosaurs and also megafauna like giant gorillas despite real world scientists would have you believe. beast machines would have lived on earth and disguised themselves as some of these megafauna and interacted with mutant people with certain superpowers and maybe some humanoid aliens that landed on earth. at some point the beast machines would go away for some reason however. transformers could later appear on earth for reason in the same universe with mutants and disguise themselves like vehicles and stuff and possible have allies with mobile armored strike kommand people and also allies with certain mutants.

>implying sociologist are any smarter than him

>Renegades WAS the change that G.I. Joe needed but it just failed
I disagree, it was a nice change of pace, but I don't think if would had much future

But if it failed wasn't because the reception wasn't good, was because the broadcast was a mess and the toys didn't hit the stores in time

Maybe for whatever reason, the Beast Machines could have moved to the large hollow areas within Earth in this wacky universe and come back out from living or hibernating within the hollows of this Earth at some point in the future. They could then become the Transformers and somehow start disguising themselves as vehicles and other things. They might have to undergo some sort of weird process to enable them to change to vehicles if each Transformer would only have the ability to transform into one certain vehicle.

Alternatively, the Beast Machines could have just lived in Savage Land or maybe everywhere on Earth, but went into hibernation in or near Antarctica and only come back to life on Earth when Savage Land comes into knowledge of some other people on Earth. Or maybe they don't get woken up until afterwards when some people on Savage Land need them or something and wake them up.

They could even bring in Micronauts and/or Micromasters into this universe at some point. They could be maybe related to Transformers and disguise themselves as various things, but maybe have the ability to increase in size to the common size of Transformers. They could be from a version of the microverse in this universe. Perhaps they could even have Space Knights be related to these Micronauts, Transformers, and Beast Machines. They could exist somewhere out in space and some could come to Earth possibly at some times.

There could be some of the general population and some groups that generally dislike/fear the Beast Machines, Micromasters/Micronauts, and Transformers similar to mutants and try to do various things to them like attack them and possibly experiment on them. Some GI Joe people at some points in time could work with some of these beings as well as mutants.

could bring in giant Sentinels being made to fight Transformers instead of more human sized robots or smaller ones. although smaller ones and the giant ones could also be used to fight mutants.

>Had no hope from Hasbro and the toys bombed.

The toys bombed because they came out after the show was cancelled. At least in part. Nothing besides PONE really took off from the Hub.

This. The ideal game type for GI Joe isn't a shooter where you're just one guy, it's a strategy game where you get a team of weird specialists and tactics your way through Cobra bases. Or get a team of Vipers to engage in wholesome terrorist fun.

They didn't even sell the Renegades toys as their own thing, they just added them into the existing line of Anniversary figures.

It does feel like people within Hasbro stopped caring about GI Joe, and aren't trying to make it succeed, maybe Transformers, Star Wars and Marvel are just more money for less effort, maybe they've gotten uncomfortable with military toys.

Kek.

>It does feel like people within Hasbro stopped caring about GI Joe,

I feel like that maybe happened when Sigma 6 ended up being an underwhelming seller. Modern Joe has its roots in 25A and that was basically a quick and dirty "here have a thing" that ended up being vastly more successful than they expected, but in many ways was going to be a finite release because nostalgia lines always have limited appeal.

The failure of the movies to reignite interest is probably what really did Joe in.

As with the toys, a big part of the appeal of GI Joe is the vehicles. If you're playing as just one guy, you don't make a first-person shooter, you make it more like Star Wars Battlefront (the PS2 games, at least, haven't played the new ones), with squads of NPCs alongside your guy, lots of vehicles, but with more developed melee combat to make the most of the ninjas and super-strong guys.

The Anniversary toys seemed to be aimed more at the adult collectors than at kids, but they sold well for years, despite no cartoon or games to support them. The "Pursuit of Cobra" line released between the movies was the same again.

The movies were the last time Hasbro really tried aiming GI Joe toys at kids, and the movies weren't the failures people paint them as, but Retaliation's release getting pushed back about 8 months killed support for it's toys and other merchandise, and Hasbro just gave up on GI Joe outside of niche-market collector toys afterwards.

We are doing pretty well at blowing them up and the afghan majority supports America unlike Iraq but it's kinda hard to blow someone up when you either have no idea where they are or they are right in the middle of a civilian population

>Light hearted military adventures are a bit harder to write in this day and age especially when most of the writers are left-leaning.

It seems like it used to be possible to be a lefty, yet love your country and at least accept the necessity of the military. How and when exactly did anti-patriotism and anti-military sentiment become mainstream left-wing opinion, rather than the far-left extreme?

1968?

>G.I. Joe does not work today because it isn't escapism, it's real life on TV.

>He doesn't know about the ninjas
>He doesn't know about the robots
>He doesn't know about the Dreadnoks
>He doesn't know about Serpentor
>He doesn't know about Cobra-La

Is this better?

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The Bush era.

Let's look at the media options for Joe reboot.
>comics
IDW is a niche company that most people haven't heard of. Marvel won't touch the IP, DC doesn't need it
>cartoons
Action cartoons just don't sell like they used to these days
>Vidya
they'd have to be really lucky enough not to be labeled a clone of Overwatch
>Live-action movies
They poisoned that well with the shitty Rise of Cobra movie and pushing back Retaliation.
>Live-action TV
It's worth a shot?
>Animated movies
It's worth another shot?

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