Why is it like pulling teeth to make directors make characters and stories accurate to the source material in adaptations? Their redesigns for characters almost always look worse then their classic design.
Why is it like pulling teeth to make directors make characters and stories accurate to the source material in...
Joshua Roberts
Charles Ramirez
Always? Vulture and Falcon are both better then their comic counterparts.
Anthony Jenkins
First off, The Lizard didn't originally have a snout, so that part is actually kind of spot on. It's a shame he refused to wear a lab coat outside that one scene, and that this movie had a dumb plot. Second, comics can't be done 1:1 all the time. You're talking about mashing entire storylines into a 2 hour movie narrative, and sadly it doesn't always work.
This is true too.
Luke Turner
?
Cooper Hill
Ya, on screen Lizard definitely wasn't the worst.
Check yourself, user.
Landon Price
Vulture was an exception to the rule, and he was the only good thing in an otherwise horrible movie
He still looked like a lizard and had a cool design originally, rather then this ugly voldemort rip off.
David Reed
A humanoid reptile is gonna look like voldmort, because that's essentially what voldemort already is
DEH
Eli Foster
based deh poster
Jackson Evans
They deliberately went with the humanoid face for two reasons according to interviews.
1. The actor's own vanity
2. Human face is more relatable
Adrian Reyes
>Falcon
Ultimate.
Its based off his Ultimate suit.
Jordan Thompson
There's a certain contrarian appeal to edgy redesigns. Anno did it best with Ultraman to Eva though, and I don't even particularly care for that franchise.
Isaiah Hernandez
Because in most cases, they can improve a character's design by not just taking inspiration from colorful, skintight circus-like outfits.
Take Captain America. His original design doesn't say much about him other than his patriotism. But his MCU costumes reference that he is a soldier and the changes in his costume reflect the tone of the movie as well. The First Avenger costume is bulky and tactical. It reflects the tone of WW2. Then you have the brighter costume used for The Avengers. This also reflects the tone of the movie. Plus, it lets people who haven't seen Captain America 1 know what this dude is all about: he's a leader, he's patriotic, and he's a symbol just as much as he is a hero. The Winter Soldier uniform is darker, signaling not just the themes of the movie but also Steve's growing doubt about the ideals that he supposedly represents. And then the costume gets brighter and more colorful in the next films to show that Steve is getting more confident again and that the movies he's in are optimistic.
And as to why he was never completely comic-accurate, just look at his Avengers costume. It's serviceable, but it just doesn't look good. He needs more detail to blend into the detailed and textured environments of the live action world. The MCU usually makes this work. Captain America, Iron Man, Ant Man, and Black Panther retain the essential elements of their comic counterparts while adding detail that helps us suspend our disbelief even only a little bit.
I'm not saying this works all the time (see DCEU Flash) but it can certainly do wonders for a character's appearance.
Jeremiah Campbell
I actually think ASM 1 is a perfectly fine movie.
It's nothing great, but I watch it once every couple years.
Nathan Stewart
William Stewart
>He needs more detail to blend into the detailed and textured environments of the live action world
This. Same with Superman, god bless his Dceu design.
>I'm not saying this works all the time (see DCEU Flash)
That would have been fine had they just not had the stupid wires all over and toned down the puffy shoulder pads.
People bitching about the black areas are hypocrites as many of them want the trunks on Superman to break up the blue.
Austin Adams
>>People bitching about the black areas are hypocrites as many of them want the trunks on Superman to break up the blue.
Fucking idiot, why? How?
Those arent even remotely comparable. Flash's specific design and color balance works as is, same with Supermans classic design and color balance. Flash doesnt need black to break up his design, red works better in that capacity than blue.
Anthony Morgan
>Flash's specific design and color balance works as is
Fuck that. Just a excuse for them to be lazy and indulge in childish silliness just like the 1st Avenger Cap suit.
Colton White
Are you retarded?
Connor Hall
>bless superman's dceu design
honestly imo i kinda think supes SHOULD have a bright blue leotard. not in those grim movies but in the superman film i want to see
Ian Reyes
And it looks very little like Ultimate Falcon's outfit.
Jackson Cox
His Winter Soldier outfit was nearly 1:1.
The costumes after are sort of just the same in conceptual spirit.
Asher Green
Lizard had a goat design.
Gabriel Foster
but what if the redesign is the best iteration of a character?
Bentley King
I agree, which is why i'm angry.
Austin Hughes
>Blade
>Doc Ock
>Vulture
>Bullseye
Who else.
Jeremiah Hill
Like I said in this post what makes costumes good isn't how detailed they are, it's what they say about a character. Cap in American soldier-esque gear makes sense. The Flash in dark, clunky armor that's constricted by wires doesn't. I agree with you that Superman should be pretty light and colorful. This is just my opinion, but I always liked Clark's costume being alien in nature, which explains why it rarely rips or burns. I don't mind texture, but color and simplicity are essential for a Superman costume. It should tell you everything you need to know about him.
Camden Perez
>but I always liked Clark's costume being alien in nature, which explains why it rarely rips or burns
No but thats stupid.
His mother made it for him.
See thats the thing, Kal-El biologically is an alien, but Clark Kent is an all-american homebody goodboy next door. He's from kansas, worked on a farm, had a dog, two loving parents, ate apple pie, got married, and has a kid.
Superman is a man first and foremost.
Cooper Carter
Meh. I get why people like the homemade costume. I guess that just never fit for me. My main point was that it should be bright and colorful regardless (which I might not have conveyed right). I think we can both agree on that
Jordan Hernandez
Yeah it should be saturated like a motherfucker.
Zachary Lopez
Not talking about the color just the design.
The Dceu texture, leather/rubber material & the artistic lines around the waist are a utter godsend.
I am fine with them making it lighter but it absolutely should not be "bright".
Tas Superman had about the right tone of blue.
Camden Green
>what makes costumes good isn't how detailed they are
But it does matter in regards to making them feel authentic and not break your immersion into the movie.
Cameron Ortiz
DCAU Superman is probably the best version of his classic design.
The dark trunks with red sheen really work and dont make blubbering retards do the typical "HAHA UNDERWEAR" shit.
Connor Torres
Not that user, but no it doesnt. What matters is quality of the material.
It doesnt matter how many details it has if its made of some shitty cheap material. Detail can certainly factor in, but the fabrics of the outfit need to be up to snuff first and foremost. The reason Cap's Avengers suit didnt work isnt necessarily because its simple, but because its made of shitty, cheap spandex. Also it isnt the comic design by a longshot (the comic design Cap had leading up to the MCU was scale mail with sort of semi-baggy denim looking pants)
Cameron Harris
Yeah, these characters flying through buildings and shooting lasers out of their eyes is fine but if they don't have enough details on their costume that'd fuck my immersion right off.
Andrew Green
Heres an example of the Cap outfit i'm talking about.
Its just the material being tweaked by the artists at the time, its generally the same design, just with heavy looking cloth instead of shitty spandex, this would translate perfectly to live action minus the actual neck portion (the helmet with strap works infinitely better)
Easton Torres
>The dark trunks with red sheen really work and dont make blubbering retards do the typical "HAHA UNDERWEAR" shit.
Agreed, pic related artist also did that well.
Levi Rogers
But that's true though. Take the gun in pic related. If you saw a video of this gun firing automatic rounds, you wouldn't believe that. If you saw an actual gun with intricate parts firing repeatedly, your mind tells you that makes sense.
Isaac Nelson
> the best design for the Lizard was from the Spider-Man 3 action figure
> no one will know this
Jordan Anderson
>Also it isnt the comic design
Oh I know.
My god Imagine how magnificent Live action cap would look with the same scale patterning and quality material as Mera's JL outfit. (specifically the scales on the breast pieces)
Josiah Bailey
Aw fuck. Hit post before I was done.
The same goes for superheroes. The more "real" and complex it looks, the more you'll be inclined to believe it.
Juan Nelson
Because hollywood is full of people with their heads up their asses, who see characters who have endured for 70 years and think "people won't like this, let me FIX it".
Anthony Thomas
Nothing about flying through buildings or using powers is inherently silly, cheap under realized costumes are, they look like cosplay or a kids Halloween costume.
It's the same reason people shit on Steppenwolf the CGI was under rendered and so didn't feel real or seem to fit in the world the created.
Jordan Reyes
>The actor's own vanity
Then hire a new one if he thinks hes somehow the director
>Human face is more relatable
Why are hacks so obsessed with making characters emote and be relatable to the point that it makes for awful designs? Dont these retards know that you can have a character that doesnt have changing facial expressions for every scene? Its the same problem of making masked characters unmask every other scene.
Liam Long
>liking the lying bitch who tried to get based depp arrested
Jaxson Cox
I am talking about the outfit and at most the character of Mera not the fucking actress.
Ayden Thompson
Because comics are for NERDS! Not us hip cool moving going ones either. We're too cool for that comic book baby stuff. Geek is cool but not nerd.
Mason Green
Best Lizard was the MTV Lizard.
Josiah King
The boots and gloves wouldn't translate well.
Logan Sullivan
Make them heavy leather.
Colton Howard
He actually wore pretty much exactly those in The First Avenger, they were just brown instead of red.
Jaxson Sanchez
Aside from the changes made to the general torso section, the First Avenger suit is actually pretty on point with the comics outfit i suggested.
Liam Nguyen
bane
Mason Jenkins
Those are combat boots with gaiters, he was wearing pirate boots in the comics. Likewise those aren't flared cuff gloves in the film.
Angel Johnson
>Use outdated design nobody asked for
>Make the creature entirely CGI
>Goomba recreation
>Never a real threat to Spiderman
>Big plot is make lizard people?
Carter Lee
Feels like they took more of a inspiration from Ultimate Cap costume in some aspects (the proto Cap outfit is like a more toned down WWII Ultimate Cap and some of his later outfits look more like Ultimate Cap's Ultimates vol 1 and 2 outfit except MCU Cap's is more heroic).
The Winter Soldier Cap outfit is totally lifted from the Commander Rogers outfit with some few minor tweaks here and there.
Charles Bell
Very few superhero comic outfits translate well for the movies just as they are. Spider-Man is one of the few whose costume works pretty well IRL.
The opposite is also true, the MCU inspired Chitauri in the comics look busy as hell and when they were trying to make Cap's outfit be more like the movies it didn't look good.
Also when you don't make the wings stick out in Steve's cowl in the comics he looks fricking weird.
Gabriel Gonzalez
He's talking about the outfit you autist.
Adrian Morris
Somehow a dude turned blue is less goofy than pic related.
Kayden Hernandez
>directors
You act like that shit isn't decided by committees.
Dominic Lopez
Venom works some reason. Deadpool too. Fullbody masked costumes always seem work IRL.
Jonathan Walker
Based on the Ultimate designs.
Christian Rivera
>Why is it like pulling teeth to make directors make characters and stories accurate to the source material in adaptations?
Because they are creating adaptations. What works in one medium will not necessarily work in another. Changes must, and will, be made to fit the spirit of the source material into a new form. Harping on and on and on about "MUH ACCURACY" misses the broader point: No adaptation will ever be 100% accurate and true to the source material, which means nitpicking shit like "costume texture" is the behavior of fools.
Camden Cox
Venom is...questionable.
And Deadpool had his suit HEAVILY redone.
They just managed to pull a Captain America on it though, and hit all the right notes, while adding visual interest to the bits that are usually flat colors in the comics.
Jaxson Bell
Cameron Baker
Unironically, if you're artist of any kind, you would understand.
Whether it's a director, costume, prop designer, whatever. You're CONSTANTLY struggling to have your artistic vision heard and accepted. Now suddenly you're working on a film adaption based off of colorful comic books with bright spandex and everybody's telling you a design is supposed to look this EXACT SPECIFIC way? 100% somebody's not going to accept that and fight even harder to throw in their vision.
Of course, I'm pretty much generalizing and their are exceptions with artist giving up their own design input for the greater "good" and accuracy of the film. Deadpool and Batfleck come to mind.
Yeah yeah taste is subjective or whatever. I don't agree with it either but you have to look at it through the lens of an artist. We're all starving for attention.
Benjamin Scott
yeah but it would be nice to get as close as possible
Liam Murphy
>And as to why he was never completely comic-accurate, just look at his Avengers costume.
It's bad, but definitely not because it's closer to his original look.
Hudson Peterson
Star-Lord
Asher Reed
Nah, I understand the idea there, but it simply isn't true.
Comic book movies don't need to become more "real" for an audience to buy them, they never have before. It's a fear from suits and Hollywood types, but it simply isn't true when it comes to the public, who can easily enjoy a fantastical looking character in a fantasy movie and always have.
The kind of people who think the spandex look looks stupid have already made up their minds anyway, they're not going to see these movies because they don't like super heroes anyway.
Pic related was a huge success, it looks about the same as a cheap costume you could buy at a Halloween store, people still loved it, and yes they believed a man could fly.
The whole "people need super heroes more grounded to get into it" idea only became a thing because of specific events, because basically Joel's uber kid focused Batman treatment made people not interested any more, and X-Men had to do uber damage control in order to get adult audiences convinced again, but as you can see....after that, people were back in, because Spider-Man was also a huge success and his costume really wasn't any less silly than his comic book one either
Charles Martinez
>The kind of people who think the spandex look looks stupid have already made up their minds anyway, they're not going to see these movies because they don't like super heroes anyway.
Fuck You.
I think the Reeves suit looks like garbage and yet 4 of my top favorite films of all time are superhero films.
Samuel Perry
I like Falcon’s classic suit, but it would never work in live action.
Jacob Thompson
>Vulture was an exception to the rule, and he was the only good thing in an otherwise horrible movie
criticize it without mentioning muh minorities (because they are irrelevant to the plot) or muh Stark (because he's there for 5 minutes)
Oliver Smith
Yeah, why can't Electro just fucking throw semi-solid yellow lightnings at Spider-Man instead of shooting beams of actual electricity? Man movies are so dumb.
Owen Gonzalez
Reeve's costume looks like shit, but its one of if not the best Superhero movie to date.
Carter Kelly
>cites narrative limitation as to why a visual design element was changed
What did he mean by this?
Aiden Kelly
Untrue to the source material. The issue with Stark is not that he's in the movie, you stooge, it's the fact that it completely ties him into Spider-Man's origin as a super hero, when Spider-Man in the comics was a lone, self made hero, who was closer to the Fantastic Four anyway IF ANYONE, but regardless he was still very much his own person with his own rogues and his own origin, he made himself, he made his web shooters, he made his costume. Homecoming makes him little more than "Iron Lad", that's the issue with Stark, not the mere fact that he shows up.
Other than that, the movies Peter doesn't really act like Peter from the original comics, he acts like some generic millenial stereotype that could easily be the lead of any Disney Channel or Nickelodeon "kidcoms", he's just a generic kid with an emphasis on awkward quirkiness, he's not a "Peter Parker" as in the character in the original Marvel comic books.
They also took away another big part of Spider-Man's character, his dual life, the fact that he always struggled to keep his identity a secret for the most part, here they throw it out the window....other heroes know his identity, villains know his identity, his classmates know his identity. That's a big part of Spider-Man stories thrown right out the window.
Cooper Perry
It's honestly the Dragon Ball Evolution of superhero movies. I don't know how it wasn't massively despised. It's a spit right into the face of Spider-man.
Isaac Nelson
>a guy's costume changing but still closely adhering to an obvious visual motif
>the same as a character design that removes part of his face
Parker Butler
Scalies look silly in live-action
Yeah, they could've just done something to the effect of this cover to make Lizard more dinosaur-ish, but that would mean A LOT more CGI and probably A LOT less screentime for Lizard.
Cameron Scott
He's actually acting exactly like he did or would in original comics when he was just a stupid teenager. You're sticking to the tockens and symbols like dual identity and fail to see what they were originally meant to represent.
Mason Cruz
>Comic book movies don't need to become more "real" for an audience to buy them, they never have before. It's a fear from suits and Hollywood types, but it simply isn't true when it comes to the public, who can easily enjoy a fantastical looking character in a fantasy movie and always have.
What works as a drawing or as animation does not necessarily translate to live-action, and vice-versa. Think about it this way: Could a live-action film ever pull off a manga-accurate Goku without it looking flat-our ridiculous?
is a good example: If Electro showed up in that costume in a live-action film - full green-and-yellow spandex and everything - how seriously could any audience take the character? It might work for an animated feature, because we already have a natural disconnect with animation/illustration that helps us suspend our disbelief. Live-action, though? It would look about as good as a cosplayer doing the same thing, and movies have higher standards than that nowadays.
Leo Johnson
fuck off
Lucas Campbell
I know what you mean, the one chance I had of having my boy appear on the big screen, and they made him look like a Twilight reject. Even worse, when they gave him a kind of "monster" form, it was just the actor with a mouth full of teeth.....despite Blackheart not having a mouth at all.
Cooper Morris
mcu peter is just whitewashed miles
Robert Hall
All of this sounds really close to USM.
Ethan Russell
yeah, USM with Miles, not Peter.
Brody Myers
Because nowadays everyone wants to add their vision and personal touch to the mixture. Everyone thinks their ideas are the best ever and everyone wants a bit of attention even in things they didn't study for. This wouldn't be that much of a problem if it was just an creative interaction between graphic artists, script writers, and the like. The real problem starts when the suits at the table, the people most disconnected with the genre and public, begin to yearn for this kind of creative control.
You wouldn't hire a musician to fix your bathroom; you hire a plumber. The suits are trained and studied for business, and (with a few exceptions here and there) they have a poor understanding of the genre and/or suffer from a lack of creativity.
So you have situations where they keep the project as safe as possible because they think what they don't understand is bad (and nowadays there's honestly too much money at stake, it's kinda understandable), and other times where they just seem to be unable to keep their hands off the project. The last one usually produces the worst results.
This is also why a work with several creative minds behind will always be inferior in potential to one with a sole cohesive mind creating it.
Christopher Rodriguez
Aaron Smith
It's because Electro's design was bad....not that all comic designs are bad. Most modern version of Electro have even tried to change it, much like the Scorpion, another BAD design.
Easton Ramirez
So, how many evil clouds have there been? Galactus....Parallax....David Banner...Dormammu...
Xavier Ross
>god bless his Dceu design.
Fuck your shit taste
Juan Morris
He looked good
Angel Gomez
Dormammu had form though. He had hands and and arm and a clearly defined face.
Benjamin Harris
>it's the fact that it completely ties him into Spider-Man's origin as a super hero,
How does that work, exactly, when he was operating for a while with web shooters and a protoype suit before he even met Tony Stark?
Jose Campbell
>They also took away another big part of Spider-Man's character, his dual life, the fact that he always struggled to keep his identity a secret for the most part, here they throw it out the window....other heroes know his identity, villains know his identity, his classmates know his identity. That's a big part of Spider-Man stories thrown right out the window.
Peter has had secret identity issues for the past decade at least. Ever since Civil War, or maybe even before that with Ultimate Marvel, they seem to be eager to have him lose his mask in a crowded building or on live TV every other issue.
Liam Butler
>How does that work, exactly, when he was operating for a while with web shooters and a protoype suit before he even met Tony Stark?
Tony Stark invented his costume.
Also, when exactly did we see any of that? Oh yeah, it was brushed over "off screen" crap that the movie only told us happened through the laziest exposition feeding in the history of films. You can argue what's canon or not all day and sure they technically did "expain" his origin in Homecoming, but what may as well have happened and what pretty much did was that Tony Stark found a kid with super powers and turned him into his own prodigy, Spider-Man.
Leo Campbell
I always read that as if ma Kent made him a costume that he took to his FoS and super-stitched a kryptonian version off of her original design.
"sure ma, costumes fine! doesn't have a scratch on it, boy your hems sure are strong!"
Nicholas Johnson
What's wrong with Star-Lord though? I don't see Sup Forums bitching about other shitty movie designs as much as Star-Lords.
Ayden Price
>implying
Lincoln Roberts
>Also, when exactly did we see any of that?
In Civil War. He exists for Tony to find, which means his origin already happened. Did we really need to see Uncle Ben get shot AGAIN? Because that's how you get Batman v Superman