Barry's origin is retconned into "muh mother's killer"

>Barry's origin is retconned into "muh mother's killer"
>It's then revealed that Reverse-Flash killed her and is the cause of the new timeline where she's dead
>Barry goes back in time to save her but fucks up the timeline, despite his mother's murder not happening until 2009
>Supposedly this is because of a 'time boom' but this didn't happen when Thawne killed Barry's mother
>Barry changes things back and it makes the timeline into the New 52 despite there being a version of post-crisis continuity where his mother's alive and one where there isn't, meaning her life and death are essentially meaningless to the timeline
>Also Barry stopping himself from time travelling in the first place should just undo everything because hypertime
>Also for some reason the 'time boom' changes in scale as well as what's it's affecting even though it would have happened prior to Barry breaking the time barrier
>"Uh Doctor Manhattan was behind it all"

BRAVO JOHNS

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Thawne is better at changing time than barry is. He had a lot of practice on himself amd barry

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It turns into the New 52 because Pandora merged two other timelines with it, that part was just her piggybacking on Barry running through time and made no sense. Flashpoint really did feel up until it happened like it was supposed to be Flash finally fixing his mother's tragedy and restoring his life, I don't get why they decided such an obvious plot hook should instead be a permanent status quo.

But if I'm not mistaken, the universe would have reverted back to post-crisis without Manhattan's interference.

Stick with me here, but Thawne killing Barry's mother was still part of that timeline's natural chain of events. As in, Thawne was always destined to kill her in that timeline, the same way Barry becoming The Flash was crucial to Thawne's own existence. Now Barry undoing that event is a problem, unraveling the chain of events that are linked to it

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>finally fixing his mother's tragedy after two whole years

But Thawne would have become Reverse-Flash independent of Barry's mother being dead or not, since he did prior to COIE. Literally everything was the same, he just did it to fuck Barry up emotionally, so there's really no reason for it to be a natural part of anything, especially since it's the result of Thawne messing with the timeline in the first place.

Also
>that costume
Why did everything involving the Flash get so absolutely raped after Flashpoint? Is Johns a total hack or was it just editorial?
>Pic related
>Bar-Torr
>Black Wally
>Meta Rogues

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Bar-Torr and new Wally were definitely from editorial, and the Meta Rogues was Manapul, wasn't it? We can't blame everything on Johns, the runs following him were even worse and didn't even follow up on his material.

Well Thawne has become a living paradox and essentially knows how to navigate the time stream, thus ensuring he can do whatever the hell he wants and impossible to kill. And trust me, Flash was on the fast track of bad before Flashpoint with Barry

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I feel like the 'streamlining' was done by committee, and since Geoff has a boner for the Flash and GL he was probably involved. He was basically their Bendis at the time so he definitely have some sway but I'd still put most of the blame on Didio.

>Flash was on the fast track of bad before Flashpoint with Barry
Oh, I'm well aware.

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We've heard Johns' plans, and he was being cockblocked at every turn. The streamlining isn't nearly as bad as a bunch of the new storylines they tried to introduce and forgot to resolve even given years to do so. The Flash's worst problems since Bart died have ironically come from being way too slow, with decompression making what should have been simple dumb fun stories into long, drawn out stupid epics.

Adapting this will save the DCEU

Any chance we’ll ever get a Barry that didn’t have his mother killed that doesn’t lead to an event of eventual retcon?

The show has ingrained it into the public consciousness. Unless the Flash film refuses to use that backstory and is a success, that is going to be stuck in the story for a long time.

Barry will die again before that happens.

Too late, the Justice League movie spent five minutes on the "dad in jail" bullshit.

I think the timeline was broke after Flashpoint because of the Manhattan fuckery, so Pandora stabilized it with the Wildstorm and Vertigo universes. Or something like that.

Honestly I don't think we're even going to get a good explanation about the missing years, or what happened. I think Superman Reborn was the timeline patch/explanation, but even that wasn't explicit enough for some of the stupider comic readers.

>>Barry changes things back and it makes the timeline into the New 52 despite there being a version of post-crisis continuity where his mother's alive and one where there isn't, meaning her life and death are essentially meaningless to the timeline
Why do some many brainlets say this? Did you even read the comic, are you so illiterate you can't comprehend a shitty Geoff Johns tacky funnybook? Pandora changed the universe, merging Post-Crisis, Wildstorm and Milestone into New52 to defend against some bigger threat, which now is revealed to be Doc Manhattan.

>implying anyone ever read anything involving Pandora besides Forever Evil
Also are you retarded? It's outright stated in the Rebirth 1-shot that Manhattan stole 10 years of time from the DCU.

It was definitely merged to weaken it

And those 10 years have been added back, minus some characters and events

Just Wally has been added back, the rest has just been events that conveniently changed things to match parts of Post-Crisis and the DCAU.

Jon is 10 years old, born after the death of Superman which was after the formation of the Justice League. The pre-FP universe was around 15 years old (Damian being born when Jason was Robin, and 10yo at the time of FP), and now the current universe is now as well.

Sorry but based on this I can't really tell what kind of point you're trying to make. Are you saying we've gotten the equivalent of 10 years back? Because it's definitely not the same 10 years.

Yeah that basically. As far as I'm concerned, most Pre-FP stories have happened or could have happened with some tinkering. Except for anything involving the JSA, a few crappy Bat-characters, the Legion, and some others. Most of whom we'll find out about in Doomsday Clock.

And to follow up, the only things that still really make no sense are how Superwoman and New Super-Man got their powers, or how Cyborg isn't in his 30s.

>Jon is 10 years old, born after the death of Superman which was after the formation of the Justice League
And he's also from another timeline.

Not anymore. Pic related

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Time travel doesn't make sense? In comics?

Superman Reborn is such a weird comic, they basically just said "It's fine, it all fits, don't worry about it". And I suppose that's really the best way for it to go.

It's more like Johns forgetting his own rules on the fly and making things up to justify the plot.

It merged both Superman continuities, he is still from another timeline, the entire point of the merger was that it restored the 10 years removed from Superman and his cast but kept some of it out hence Connor Kent not being in existence yet Tim Drake as kidnapped by Oz remembers him. Superman, The Flash, Batman, and Wonder Woman are both now aware of missing years and that's partially why Superman is so important to Doomsday Day Clock like Flash was to the button. Hence why it shows pre-FP death of Superman and not Nu-Death..

He's definitely from the Rebirth/Earth Prime timeline.

I think its more likely that "Last Days of Superman" didn't happen. He died once against Doomsday, and maybe once again in Grant Morrison's Action run (that was called the second death of Superman even in the New 52)

There's literally only one page, pretty much after Flaspoint is concluded, that connects that Elseword story into the reboot they needed, why do so many people seem to completely skip over this page?

When did I mention anything besides Flashpoint? Why are you mentioning Rebirth-1shot as if it contradicted anything I said? Why are you mad?

>It was definitely merged to weaken it
No.

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Because Didio and Lee needed an excuse to reboot, Flashpoint was meant to finish with everything going back to how it was, it was meant to be an end of a trilogy for Barry, Rebirth, Blackest Night and Flashpoint, but they forced him to change the end for Pandora, it's literally just tacked on

>When did I mention anything besides Flashpoint?
>"Pandora changed the universe"
>"bigger threat which is now revealed to be Dr. Manhattan"
Also just FYI user, you can't really accuse other people of being mad when you sound this asshurt

>"Pandora changed the universe"
See picture, , Flashpoint #5.

>"bigger threat"
See picture, , Flashpoint #5.

Wait what'st he difference between post crisis and pre flashpoint?

Pre Flashpoint and Post-Crisis usually refer to the same era, 1986-2011
Read more comics

So was the bigger threat originally supposed to be referring to Daemonites, when they were trying to push them early New 52?

Probably, or the Crime Society since Pandora's whole thing was protecting that skull that ended up being a transporter. Doesn't make a lot of sense either way, the whole thing was botched, but continuity has a way of fixing itself, and Hypercrisis got us Doc Manhattan, which makes a whole lot more sense, though it's still not quite right. Maybe he got transported to the DC Universe after she opened the skull for the first time?

>Blaming Johns for flash related stuff he didn't even write

Probably, with the Forever Evil stuff (and the ol faithful Darkseid) being a plan B too.

It really won't.
I'll defend the undefended in movies, maybe even play devil's advocate, but even I can't bring myself to the idea of Flash's first solo movie being a fucking rewrite history story BEFORE THE CHARACTERS AND HISTORY ARE SET UP.

Except Johns entire career before Flashpoint was spent reviving old continuity. The New 52 has none of his hallmarks as a writer, and in fact negated his chief tools in universe.

The cheap everything is new and modern gimmick is much more like how Didio and Lee do comics.

Why did they drop that shit anyway? So much from the first two-ish years of the New 52 just makes no sense. Things are still heavily botched in many parts of the DC universe.

God damn I hope they did actually give Johns the reigns in Doomsday Clock and he has a solid idea on how to unfuck this.

Barry should have stayed dead. He died the hero in one of most pivotal events ever and successful created a mantle to pass on. It wasn't like Green Lantern who died like an asshole is a shitty event (shamed).

Please revert back, but this shit is gay.

I like that/when he was brought back. I think Johns was clearly going for an original League line up revival. Editorial just fucked all his plans for the Flash and the League to utter shit, and we haven't had a good comic out of either line since.

Actually has any of the Flash been good? I don't know man, I just think the New 52 designs are all terrible.

We're split then, because the whole Black Flash story they got him in at the start was weak in my opinion. Keep him dead. He's in speed Valhalla to only be pulled back temporarily for stuff like Infinite Crisis. The idea of Barry was stronger that his actual run.

I think they brought him back because doing Wally in the movies wouldn't have gotten the lapsed fans.

Barry was brought back juuust before the movie shit started to kick into DC. The movie shit is probably why Wally has been shit on so very hard.

And uh... what Black Flash story? Do you mean Black Racer?

I mostly hated Final Crisis, but I did love Jay talking about running across days and all sorts of crazy stuff and swearing on his very soul that he. Saw. Barry. That was great stuff.

Black Flash in Flash Rebirth

>not realizing Johns (huge Wallyfag) was forced to use Barry so he sabotaged him

Thawne explicitly stated that Barry only fucked up time because of the way he time traveled. It has nothing to do with his mother.

Please actually read the story before commenting on it.

Not according to Convergence.

Why post-crisis?

Ehhh, I liked Earth 2 Jay.

Infinite Crisis.

Convergence took things from different time periods but that doesn't make them different worlds/continuities. Pay attention to what you're actually reading. Silver age and bronze age were the same continuity as well.

Here's what I want to know: how did Dr. Manhattan get so powerful? He used to only be able to manipulate matter and energy. How did he get so powerful that he could manipulate space, time and reality on a multiversal level?

Time and practice is the reasonable answer.
I mean that was part of his character, a man who while in this godlike state slowly lost touch with humanity in a physically noticeable way of how less and less clothes he wore.

A similar thing happens with Capt Atom in new 52, where 20 years after getting his powers he acts like a living diety and thousands of years in the future he has lost all signs of humanity as he becomes an Eldritch like shapeless monster who kills Earth in the past.
Doctor Manhattan is merely a more popular captain atom, so he gets a power boost of popularity plot armor that makes writers make him a reality altering being.

The main issue is that Reborn has been basically ignored afterwards. There have been several flashbacks to the early JL years in other series afterwards, and they show the N52 League there, which shouldn't be "early years" anymore going by the Reborn timeline.

>Meta Rogues
I know everyone is inlove with the idea of "working class" criminals, but I honestly liked this idea a lot. It made much more sense than these average intelligence dudes having ridiculously powerful weapons.

Honestly it seems very contextual. He might have gotten a powerup, but he was only able to interfere because Barry had softened time up for him. He is not omnipotent. You shouldn't overstate him to be some kind of god right now. Even something like the Time Trapper is likely still stronger (as he doesn't require help to interfere).

>It made much more sense than these average intelligence dudes having ridiculously powerful weapons.

Well that's not a problem to be solved. It is the package. They are obviously not average intelligence dudes, but they live like them anyway. They are fun because they don't strive to study and make tech advances beyond what they need. They live lives of passion and it's great.

why is thawne so thicc

why not

>How did Manhattan get so powerful?
Geoff Johns