Why can't we have national healthcare provided by the government

Why can't we have national healthcare provided by the government

cos muhh socialism.Do you know who was socialist also? thats rite uncle Adolf hitler

I want real answers not memes

shouldnt have to pay for obese people or smokers, which would be 90% of the people id pay for

So you think healthcare is bad because you're selfish and you think the ill aren't worthy of monetery support

Capitalism isn't about taking care of everyone. The point is that people with drive/desire are given the chance to succeed while the ones who don't try just die off. Providing health care for everyone is socialism which is an unamerican value. By providing for everyone, the ones who want to succeed are held back by the regulations imposed through Socialism and despite the Liberals talking about being the party of mobility, they want to make you a government leeching babby.

Yes I do. The government also requires everyone to have car insurance, but it doesn't force us to pay for someone who has had 4 duis

>the one's who don't succeed will die off
Poor people have more children, so no. Also, who's going to work at McDonald's and Walmart?

>providing health care for everyone is socialism
So everyone isn't entitled to live? Some people simply don't deserve to be alive?

>the one's who want to succeed are held back
Money =/= health. This is a strawman.

You can and it's a wonderful idea

you just need to eliminate everyone who has no intention of working for a living otherwise it's an awful idea that will doom you all

>tfw have paid over 20k to the NHS in the last 12 years and have never once used their services while lazy shitbags getting hospitalised for alcohol poisoning whilst pregnant drain the system

ok here we go
insurance companies dictate what is minimum coverage under obama care thats why premiums goes up up to 25% ...same goes to the time line when all people have healthcare . sure it will go down in first year but it will hick up more ....
>I want real answers not memes
implying that i was wrong

muh feellings

I mean directly supported. No middleman insurance providers. Direct provision by the state.

If you want to live in a socialist hellhole then leave to some european country. You libs need to realize the people have decided that we aren't a leech babby system and have no desire to be.

Fuck off to your containment board at leftypol

BECAUSE IT COMES FROM TAX DOLLARS YOU CUNT

You just waltz around the problems like faggot ballerina. Do you believe the weak dying to benefit the rich is good or not? Do you support state-sponsored death?

Vested interests of your private healthcare, who employ lobbying and dumb propaganda.
Socialized healthcare is cheaper and better, experience has shown. Americans pay the most yet you are ranked below 30 other countries in terms of healthcare quality by WHO.

You are a moron.

The poor have more kids because of the Democrat influence that has taken away from our country being great. Socialism is responsible for the decline in global IQ.

You say im "waltzing around problems" while you type like you're in a stroller crying about muh entitlements. w-why c-cant everything in my life b-be paid for

hey don't profess equality if you think stratified inequality is a good thing. Quit being a pussy and call it as it is.

>socialist hellhole
Name some socialists hellholes.
Pro-tip: social policies and liberalism are not connected policies. Hitler implemented social welfare policies, yet he wasn't inviting refugees. Your arguments are awful.

Who will work at McDonald's if there aren't poor people? Who is going to do it? You literally fucking ignored this completely and totally.

Doesn't work

ohhh
then i dont know how but big farma will get big subsidize such as many counties in east EU ...i think ger have that also ....

Then how come France and UK are ranked top 10 while USA is below 30th place according to WHO report, and Americans spend most per capita on healthcare.
Countries like Germany and Switzerland too have excellent health service and medical progress that rivals that of America.

....Sweden, Scotland etc also

Too many leeches who go to the doctor when they get a headache

nice straw man ty

What's the strawman? If you don't think everyone deserves equal right's to health, you believe in unequal rights to health. Capitalism is unequal by nature. It's not necessarily bad, just quit being a bitch and fess up to it.

It might work if fatties don't get to use it.

The negatives like that are minor compared to benefits. You know what they did here, they put some symbolic price, like 1 euro for exam, and it literally cut the number of old bored people going to doctor for every tiny thing by 90%.
Socialized healthcare works and health is one of those areas where abuse by private sector is too easy to pull off. It's easy to extort people when their health or the health of their loved ones is at stake.
You're being ripped off by fucking Jewish middlemen, and I'm sorry for saying this but it's ironic that you cry about Jews so much yet you support a practice that has an awful number of Jews involved.

They guys saying that you dont pay for the guy with 4 DUI's under mandated car insurance. I dont think you understand how insurance works. You're grouped in a category based on various factors which affects how much you pay. Every category has some drink drivers that cause accidents which costs the insurance companies money. They then put prices up for the whole group ergo you pay for other peoples shit driving. It's literally nothing different to nationalised healthcare. Either accept nationalised healthcare or refuse to pay insurance on your car there is no middle ground.

I'm okay with this if the government also provides a few things.

1. Doctors get all of their school paid for within the first year they graduate
2. They are guaranteed a minimum salary of 100,000, plus whatever the hospital wants to pay them.

It is, because I get to choose who my car insurance provider is, and if i'm getting boned in whatever "group" i'm in. I'm free to leave and find something better.

Not him, but jobs like that are meant to be temporary jobs occupied by teenagers, young adults, and students. They were never intended to be life and family sustaining careers.

Our debt is too high right now, and the dollar is weak. Wait 'till we get that shit sorted first. Then we need to reign in hospital costs (I went to the ER, it cost $65.00 for two equate brand ibuprofen for example). After that we may need to look at controlling certain products, but for the most part it, or at least subsidies healthcare, should be doable.

wait wait wait
>If you don't think everyone deserves equal right's to health, you believe in unequal rights to health.
1+1 = 2 but in your mind (see green text ) is not .....there is no correlation what so ever
>just quit being a bitch and fess up to it.
lol
>A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.
you are from some liberal collage and you need to read more

your country is tiny and doesn't have the illegal immigration problem we have

No one can ban private healthcare. So there's always alternative for employment.

>muh feels
>feels implies I'm personally hurt by people dying

What did you mean when you said "muh feels"

Not to agree with the lard ass but he has one point. Why the hell do they have a food trolley in the weight loss ward?

you mean why can't other people pay for your healthcare

but he must pay unversal healthcare fess

Yea. Why are you so selfish.

>No one can ban private healthcare.
Do you mean legally or do you mean as a possible political action taken today in the USA?

I'm fine with it if I can opt out and use private and not have to pay into the public option.

But I doubt that would ever happen.

>because you're selfish and you think the ill aren't worthy of monetery support
muhh feels
>feels implies I'm personally hurt by people dying
you are good at strawmaning

UK and France aren't tiny and they have far better healthcare than USA. While paying a lot less per capita.

so what did you mean then

Is it not selfish to willingly live an unhealthy lifestyle and then force someone to pay for your healthcare?

>He calls himself a nationalist
>Doesn't advocate universal healthcare

Because the government doesn't have any money to give that it hasn't first taken from someone else.

You can't cut off a piece of string on one end and glue it to the other end to have a bigger piece of string & every cut is slowly ruining the integrity of the whole now vastly glued string.

Also don't use my country as an example because you don't understand it.

>So everyone isn't entitled to live? Some people simply don't deserve to be alive?

Why should you force others to pay for your healthcare?

Good point.

So lets say universal healthcare to those who have health conditions that are not self-inflicted. What's wrong with that?

if you want to help someone you teach them how to fish, you dont give them the fish

"free healthcare" really means the middle class and up are paying for welfare recipients and illegal immigrants to get surgeries.

it inevitably leads to long wait times and rationing of surgeries (that's why every canadian who has money comes to the US for a heart surgery)

You are also forcing doctors to work at gunpoint

And competition in the healthcare industry creates better technology aka better healthcare for everyone. Right now the rest of the world is enjoying the benefits of America's capitalist driven healthcare economy.

He has to pay taxes too. Lower taxes and make up the difference.
See how much tax do Americans pay, awfully lot when you consider they don't get healthcare provided for that.
It's like crony socialism. Their government spending as % of GDP is quite bigger than China's or Russia's. They are up there with UK and Sweden.
My point is they are ripped off by their own government and then sectors like private healthcare come and take a huge dump on their face.

Because everyone deserves to be healthy. Life supersedes your monetary rights. So tell me, are some people not entitled to live?

Because we need to buy more nukes, failed F35s jets, Navy ships, drones etc,

Situation A

>Government takes money
>Uses it to provide healthcare

Situation B
>Mr shekelstein takes money
>Uses half of it to fund black lives matter protests and internet shill campaigns
>Uses half of it to provide healthcare

Enjoy your string metaphor schlomo

You're mislabeling the whole concept, kind of like how people mishandle the 'argument' about illegal immigrants.

Health Care is expensive, it is a demanding industry and only a select view individuals have the skillsets and intelligence to become doctors. This makes medical care valuable, high-demand and a difficult industry to be a part of. This means they have to be compensated highly or nobody will waste the decade of their life in education and the average 450,000 student loans for a doctoral degree.

So. You believe the 'Government' can 'provide' free health care; what this actually means is you believe in burdening the middle class of the society with the dead weight of all the lower performers, and compromising the overall quality of health care provided.

You can either destroy and rape the middle class to foot the expensive bill and retain quality of care, or you can diminish quality of care and leave middle class mostly alone. The 'truth' of policy is somewhere in between; quality of care, access to expensive, specialized equipment goes down somewhat, and taxes and burdens go up on the average middle class person. Do some research on this if you choose to 'disagree' with these realities.

So assuming you've made it this far and aren't ad-hominem'ing or going stupid about the discussion...

Why do you feel those who earn nothing, aspire to nothing, achieve nothing are 'entitled' to an expensive, hard to produce set of skills and goods that are finite and vary greatly from provider to provider?

How do you propose to prevent the medical industry and doctoral programs from losing all talent and drive, when butchering the profitability margins and destroying incentivization across the board?

That's the problem with you warm-hearted, cake-and-whistle socialists... you're in the right place on a purely moralistic standpoint, but you feel that you are entitled to dictate the resources of other human beings.

Legally and practically. Free enterprise.
It will also lead to private healthcare lowering costs and improving standards to stay competitive.
And don't use the "research" argument. A large if not most of that money goes to middlemen who just harvest the money and do little.

There is no such thing as free market health care. Hospitals, ambulances, ect. are all natural monopolies. Jimbo dying on the street does not have enough time to negotiate prices and choose the best quality service. He could literally be charged a million dollars for a surgery and have no choice but to pay it.

>Why should you force others to pay for your healthcare?

Why do you force other to pay for your military production? Law enforcement? Legal system?

Fact is if the US had a UHC the costs would drop, even while paying for others.

>middle class
why can't the rich pay

>welfare recipients
some will always be on welfare by nature of humanity. Some people have to be poor and work at McDonald's for the CEO to rake in the cash. Deal with it.

>Long wait times
Yea that's called equality. The solution isn't to have some die so other's can have a more convenient time. The solution is to quell population growth.

>forcing doctors to work
depends

>muh capitalism
right. So corporations won't fund healthcare research? They're just going to let their employees die?

The US already regulates who can provide medical care.

>free
Never said it was free. Goes into taxes famalam.

>middle class
why can't the rich pay

>Why do you feel those who earn nothing, aspire to nothing, achieve nothing are 'entitled' to an expensive, hard to produce set of skills and goods that are finite and vary greatly from provider to provider?
So they deserve to die then? The poor deserve to die. This is your philosophy. Again, who's going to work at McDonald's if there aren't any poor people?

> implying government actually provides healthcare of any quality
> implying private alternatives weren't infinitely better in the past before propaganda won the masses over
> implying government run healthcare is ever sustainable.

There is a huge facade when it comes to government healthcare, if you dig a little under the surface you'll see extreme inefficiencies, waste, special shekelstein interests and an ever increasing amount of corners cut to make it appear sustainable.

You should see the letters and diaries collected prior to government involvement in healthcare it's fascinating to me how well targeted everything was and just how dodgy the propaganda was at the time.

R A R E
A R
R A
E R A R

Well do you want some shaman cutting you up? Customer protection. And we're talking about health.

>Why can't the rich pay?

There's less of them and far more of those who aren't rich. Even with more of the burden on the wealthy me losing 10% of my earnings to something is still far more harsh than a billionaire losing 10% or more.

The point then stands why they can't pay for it themselves. They can't get a job? They don't need one. Things like Amazon Mturk exist. The pay is meager but the income adds up.

Suppose a line has to be drawn where some has to choose between affording the healthcare of their own family and a stranger, what then? No one should be OBLIGATED to provide for any other person but those they willingly and contractually agreed to support.

Why should I who can't even afford my own healthcare be forced to pay for someone else's like I do every tax return now?

[citation needed]

So if this was true how come there are multiple countries with universal heslthcare with a higher ranked healthcare system and drastically lower medical spending per capita or as a percentage of gdp

>So everyone isn't entitled to live? Some people simply don't deserve to be alive?

Retarded rhetoric. I thought you were looking for serious answers. You have the right to be left alone--> basic human right (i.e. negative liberty).

Everyone is born naked, you can not enforce others to make clothes for you (i.e. slavery), just because you exist. You are not entitled to the fruits of labour of others (i.e. theft).

People want things things that ought to be produced, either you produce them yourself or you voluntarily convince others to do it.

So the top .1% making billions a year.

It's too much for them? We can't tax them at more than 10%?

>why can't the rich pay

They do, that's what benefits are for those that they employ. They cannot support the entire population.

>take responsibility for your health so you're not a parasite on everyone else's money, have ire for those who don't.
>selfish

as a country with universal free healthcare
its shit

its only sort of works if you keep throwing obscene amounts of money at it
like the NHS

>they can't get a job
There will always be underpaid people working at Walmart by nature of capitalism. Are these people not deserving of health?

>No one should be OBLIGATED to provide for any other person but those they willingly and contractually agreed to support
So no roads then?

Because someone has to pay for new medicines to be developed.

>why can't the rich pay
the middle class are the "rich" when it comes to subsidizing free healthcare. Obongocare is already making middle class people pay out the ass for health insurance because that's the only way we can pick up the tab for the subsidized groups.

>Yea that's called equality. The solution isn't to have some die so other's can have a more convenient time. The solution is to quell population growth.

what the fuck are you even talking about. "the solution is to quell population growth". The problem with long wait times is that you won't be able to get a life saving surgery when you need it. Take your head out of your ass and do some research and you'll find out that socialized healthcare isn't all puppies and rainbows like John Oliver makes it out to be. It means MORE people get the shaft when it really counts, so Jamal gets free antibiotics for his gonorrhea.

Read a fucking book and you'll find out that the United States produces cutting edge healthcare techniques and technology because there is a market for it.

>So corporations won't fund healthcare research? They're just going to let their employees die?

do you understand anything about how the world works. Do you think there is a corporation somewhere thinking "GOOD GOD OUR EMPLOYEES ARE DYING, LETS INVEST ALL OF OUR MONEY INTO BETTER HEALTH RESEARCH"

You're awful bent out of shape here 'famalam'.

The poor deserve to die about as much as they deserve to obtain ownership of assets that are not theirs and they did not earn.

Does that not stand to reason in your world? Do you feel entitled to something you don't own because you need it? "You have a nice house, I'm going to take it because you have 2 houses and I have 0"?

In terms of your argument that not having socialized healthcare and blatant robbery of the middle and upper classes to furnish the lazy with free goods, you're being intellectually dishonest.

There have always been masses of the poor. Not everyone dies if they don't have healthcare. This is a highly dishonest argument, and you likely know it.

By your reasoning, before the early 1900's, there were only rich people. Right? Because that's the only ones who could afford medical treatment?

If you're going to offer a pretense of honest engagement, try actually following through with it.

The poor are going to cure themselves of cancer?

>Why do you force other to pay for your military production? Law enforcement? Legal system?

Maximise negative liberty.

You miss I said "or more"

You also don't understand how wealth works for those who are wealthy. It's not a bank account with billions in it, it's all valuable assets and investments that have a yearly return.

Whether you charge 10% or 99% they can recover and if they don't like it easily leave the system without affecting their investments.

Not saying rich people get a pass on taxes, but be real here. You can't force people who have some degree of control via wealth to contribute when they don't.

By this logic public education should also be abolished

Why spend tens or hundreds of thousands on every single child if you don't care if they live or die as soon as they turn 18

>"GOOD GOD OUR EMPLOYEES ARE DYING, LETS INVEST ALL OF OUR MONEY INTO BETTER HEALTH RESEARCH"
So to you, a system wherein the lives of the poor are meaningless because they'll just keep fucking and making more is good? Kinda like Brave New World?

Because no other country is going to pay for our military that keeps them safe, so we have to sacrifice our own population's healthcare for that.

tell that to soros
you only tell that to white people
i seen this kind of narrative
OP is a communist

The united states and it's citizens pay more on average because companies lose money in your country

Americans get charged out the ass for pills that, say, indians pay little for, because the companies know no one can afford it.

Plus our techonology, invented because of the profit incentive, is exported to your country, and you benefit from that as well.

If the government makes it law

It happens

Hard concept I know.

>but it would never become law

gotta make govt-corporate collusion illegal first

>there is still no response to this yet
we're waiting

>provided by the government

Fuck that shit.

I put that to school you're not able to go and not learn while a public healthcare system I can smoke, drink, shoot heroin, and sniff farts and go get fixed the next day (or however long that line is), and then do it again and increase the drain.

>Trinidad and Tobago
If they made it work here (and unlike 90% of this thread I had operations and health issues), I'm sure it could work just fine in America.
And again, American government already spends obscene money. Maybe they should spend it on keeping their people healthy, you know, the ones who pay taxes to them.

that's not what i said at all, why don't you try responding to the post you fucking moron

Because everything the government touches becomes more expensive. Lefties always use the argument that healthcare can't be privatized because it's "different" from other services & products, they say everyone needs healthcare so you don't have any bargaining power. But you can say the same thing about food or shelter, everyone needs these things but we don't have the government in charge of producing them.

A completely privatized healthcare system would be so inexpensive that even the poor could afford it.

Also, wealth doesn't concentrate into the hands of a few under laissez-faire capitalism. That's just a lie socialists tell themselves to justify their parasitism.

Yeah but your country is a poor shithole and whatever system you used would likely be shit because of this

Js

>My first day on Sup Forums: the post

k

>the middle class are the "rich" when it comes to subsidizing free healthcare
Again, why can't the government make the rich pay.

>The problem with long wait times is that you won't be able to get a life saving surgery when you need it
Yea, the solution is less people. Not having some die.

>do you understand anything about how the world works
I guess I don't. Enlighten me.

You realize you're country is so shitty it takes $5 million in aid from US alone and $100 million world wide? The illegal population here alone is probably 30 times your whole country.