ITT

Henry Hernandez
Henry Hernandez

ITT: overhyped "genre defining definitive instant classics" comic books that were forgotten in 2 months

It's all Grant Morrison does these days

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William Carter
William Carter

"genre defining definitive instant classics"
Nobody called WWE1 this.

Nolan Smith
Nolan Smith

change "genre" to "character" and they did

Hudson Anderson
Hudson Anderson

Multiversity is still a classic, and that's coming from a Morrison-hater.

WW Earth One is indeed garbage, though.

Lincoln Lewis
Lincoln Lewis

WWE1 yes, Multiversity no, it's a good comic that frequently gets talked about here and other places. It's not the mindblowing A DECADE IN THE MAKING megahit it got hyped up as but it was a good book.

Cameron Carter
Cameron Carter

You could've just called this a "comics men will never understand" thread, because that's what you posted.

Brandon Evans
Brandon Evans

written by a man
damn...

Owen Scott
Owen Scott

you have to understand a work to make it
damn...

You must think Tommy Wiseau is a fucking genius.

Hudson Hill
Hudson Hill

ya lost me

William Evans
William Evans

Multiversity
Forgotten
Not on Sup Forums and not in my circle of friends.

Cameron Jenkins
Cameron Jenkins

Isn't WW1 the one Morrison made Trevor a black guy because he wants to please his wife's boyfriend?

Caleb White
Caleb White

I know, sweetie. I know.

John Cruz
John Cruz

Only because people are desperate for WW to get her own TDKR or A-SS. For someone supposedly part of DC's holy trinity she barely has anything

David Reed
David Reed

implying people don't still bring up and circlejerk about Multiversity, especially Pax

Xavier Scott
Xavier Scott

Multiversity
Forgotten

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Jackson Collins
Jackson Collins

damn...

Jackson Reed
Jackson Reed

judging a 3 act play by the first act

WWE1 is a trilogy, not a standalone. And for a first act, it's pretty damn interesting as long as you're actually engaging with the subtext and not just the events of the story. But I don't expect typical capeshitters to read past a third grade level.

Aiden Roberts
Aiden Roberts

I agree. I hope he is actually going to get on with putting out Volume 2 at some point.

Austin Stewart
Austin Stewart

It comes out in august, user.

Carson Kelly
Carson Kelly

There are actually people who post on a comic book message board that don't like Multiversity? What the fuck do you like other than cape movies?

Julian Thomas
Julian Thomas

Yea, August of 2024

Ayden Thomas
Ayden Thomas

They like dicks

Cameron Collins
Cameron Collins

Multiversity is excellent and beloved here and WW was good. Nameless, Klaus, Annihilator, Heavy Metal, Happy, he's doing great work. At least as good as his contemporaries.

Read more than Capeshit?

Ryan Peterson
Ryan Peterson

WWE1 was pretty good, actually. I usually hate Morrison's work, but low and behold once he shuts the fuck up with the meta crap, he's actually capable of telling a real story. A pretty solid story at that.

It really doesn't help that there's this attitude that only "important" stories are worth reading.

Henry White
Henry White

Multiversity wasn’t forgotten, neither was it overhyped. WW Earth One wasn’t overhyped either. It just came and went. But it did add an interesting layer to WW’s legacy, and the art alone makes it worth revisiting.

Landon Russell
Landon Russell

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Wonder Woman Earth One

Kayden Hill
Kayden Hill

It really doesn't help that there's this attitude that only "important" stories are worth reading.
Both TDKR and A-SS are out of continuity

Carson Martin
Carson Martin

There are actually people who post on a comic book message board that don't like [capeshit]? What the fuck do you like other than [capeshit]?
Laugh out loud. Try reading some non-cape comics sometimes.

I actually do like cape comics, but I just think that Morrison is focused more on making THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING FOREVER comics instead of comics that actually stand on their own merits, at least when it comes to capes.

Grayson Stewart
Grayson Stewart

Incorrect. He just writes good comics.
Animal Man is great, he can't help it if it inspired copycats.

Joshua Edwards
Joshua Edwards

Morrison is focused more on making THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING FOREVER comics instead of comics that actually stand on their own merits

Multiversity is essentially a collection of Elseworlds with an overarching story. He hasn't written a single real comic in continuity since Batman. What the shit are you on?

Andrew Lewis
Andrew Lewis

Not to mention Morrison's entire thing is putting the characters back where you found them. That user seems like a dumbass talking out of his ass.

Evan Martin
Evan Martin

Nigga what? People were talking about Multiversity for months after it came out and it still gets threads every once in a while.

I didn't even read WW though

Parker Johnson
Parker Johnson

Animal Man was 30 years ago. Morrison has changed since then.

Where did you get the impression that I was talking about continuity?

Cooper Lewis
Cooper Lewis

important means canon

Actually McFucking kill yourself

Colton Torres
Colton Torres

So is League of One, but nobody has read it because it wasn't a game changing blockbuster that everyone has heard of. Which is a damn shame, cause it's pretty good.

Matthew Rodriguez
Matthew Rodriguez

Where did you get the impression that I was talking about continuity?
Then what did you mean by changing everything?

If by "important" you just meant really popular, then no shit most people only want to read those.

William Stewart
William Stewart

independently wealthy millionaire who knew how to invest in real estate
still making money off of his own movie a decade and a half later
still manages to block people from finding out about his past
Yeah, Tommy Wiseau is a fucking genius. I said it, whatcha gonna do?

Jace Smith
Jace Smith

Are you being intentionally obtuse or are you legit mentally impaired? I want to know before I decide to make fun of you or not.

Jaxon Edwards
Jaxon Edwards

I didn't even read WW though
It's decent. Interesting to read a WW story where she doesn't fight anyone, let alone snap a neck, and racebending Steve is almost forgivable for the scene where she offers him a collar.

Dylan Ward
Dylan Ward

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David White
David White

This is actually true. He's not a filmmaking genius, but he's a shrewd fucker.

Charles Young
Charles Young

What were you talking about then? Because Morrison has never made a story that "changed everything."

Matthew Wright
Matthew Wright

Grant "literally used magic to make himself a rich chad" Morrison
a cuck
Nah it was just moviebegging/baiting

Oliver Hall
Oliver Hall

With the examples in the OP, Morrison wants to change not continuity itself, but the conversation about that continuity. He wants to redefine the conversation about the DC Universe and about Wonder Woman. You and I can all agree that he's focused on the "meta" aspect of comics, right? In my own personal opinion, he's too focused on that aspect, at the expense of the comics' quality.

He wants to set up an unchanging permanent platonic ideal of Wonder Woman-- untouched by the horrors of main continuity and godawful unending events-- an ideal which the world can point at and say "This is what Wonder Woman should be like". But then it was overhyped and under-delivering because, IMO, he had the wrong goals guiding him while making it.

Luke Miller
Luke Miller

It really doesn't help that there's this attitude that only "important" stories are worth reading.
It's just the casual gibs mentality. They are too lazy/retarded/pathetic to read an actual comic with a triple digit number on it so they need a SPESHUL comic for their dumb asses.

Daniel Gutierrez
Daniel Gutierrez

What the fuck else is CHANGE EVERYTHING FOREVER in the context of big 2 capes? I'm smelling some heavy casual shit coming off your dumb ass.

Austin Sanchez
Austin Sanchez

He wants to set up an unchanging permanent platonic ideal of Wonder Woman-- untouched by the horrors of main continuity and godawful unending events-- an ideal which the world can point at and say "This is what Wonder Woman should be like".
That's an incredibly simplistic understanding of the material that clearly stems from your biases against metafiction. In fact, this is what every Wonder Woman writer has tried to do since 1987 EXCEPT for Morrison. You couldn't be more wrong.

Elijah Bailey
Elijah Bailey

In fact, this is what every Wonder Woman writer has tried to do since 1987 EXCEPT for Morrison.
Please explain this position.

Hudson Reyes
Hudson Reyes

He wants to set up an unchanging permanent platonic ideal of Wonder Woman-- untouched by the horrors of main continuity and godawful unending events-- an ideal which the world can point at and say "This is what Wonder Woman should be like". But then it was overhyped and under-delivering because, IMO, he had the wrong goals guiding him while making it.
No he just tried to write a story that would be turned into a movie so he could make inroads with Hollywood and go the Millar route with some of his other properties. You are fucking dumb mate.

Cooper Wilson
Cooper Wilson

platonic ideal of Wonder Woman
In all fairness, it's hard to disagree on some of the things he thinks should be a part of that. The Amazons' advanced technology, for example. I don't know whose idea it was to get rid of it in the first place, but they need to be slapped for making the Amazons so fucking boring and unable to play any kind of substantial role in the greater DCU.

Nolan Flores
Nolan Flores

I wish WWE1 was genre or character defining. It’s a good comic, but it was lacking. There’s no crescendo, everything was just steady good. Ergo, it was a very safe Wonder Woman tale. Memorable only because most modern Wonder Woman comics(except Azz’s) have been very generic.

Luke Baker
Luke Baker

True, but you should really wait to judge it as a whole when he's done with however many volumes he's going to write.

I just mean, when was the last time one of Morrison's stories actually ended at the last page of a single volume?

Nicholas Smith
Nicholas Smith

The entire point of WWE1 is to acknowledge how fucked up it is for every single Wondy writer in history to toss out everything before them (villains, supporting cast, etc.) to create the DEFINITIVE version of her. Rucka also tried to address this in Rebirth by creating a "synthesized" version of Wonder Woman, but it really didn't rise above the standard fare.

Morrison went the opposite direction and decided to just stop trying to make the next DKR or ASS. When you stop trying to make things definitive, ONLY then can you be free from the bondage of continuity. This is why so many things in E1 seem almost sacrilegious to the Wondy mythos. It's an entire story about being reverent to the concept of irreverence itself.

I'm not going to say it's brilliant or groundbreaking, but it has something to say as a piece of art, which is itself far more valuable than any paint by numbers "epic" story that hits all the usual emotional punches.

Dylan Gonzalez
Dylan Gonzalez

You present your argument well, but we'll have to agree to disagree because I personally believe that Morrison was trying to be definitive.

Xavier Wilson
Xavier Wilson

I'll just call him retarded, that will work

Benjamin Williams
Benjamin Williams

he did it for the slavery/chains joke, the absolute madman

Owen Butler
Owen Butler

No he just tried to write a story that would be turned into a movie

Why would Morrison think a story with no fights could be turned into a movie? He was clearly just doing his own spin of golden age stuff.

William Edwards
William Edwards

So he tried to make a pitch for a Wonder Woman movie when a Wonder Woman DCU movie was in production for a full year before Earth One was even released?

You are fucking dumb mate.

Zachary Collins
Zachary Collins

If he was, then it would be very unusual for Morrison. His entire body of work is an exercise in irreverence. Animal Man, Doom Patrol, Invisibles, Final Crisis, and even his more conventional superhero work like JLA, Batman, and All-Star Superman are all Morrison putting the toys in a blender and seeing what happens. All-Star Superman only became definitive because of how well it resonated with people. In reality, Morrison was gleefully shitting on decades of mythology that had built up for Supes at that point.

The works we tend to see as "definitive" are never the ones that synthesize works of the past into a broad, blander version of the character (see: any capeshit movie). The definitive works are the ones like DKR that take a steaming dump on everything before them and accidentally become acclaimed.

Morrison has made an entire career of doing this (as did Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, and every other British Invader). Morrison doesn't give a fuck about creating lasting, DEFINITIVE works of art. Most of his works are quite "of their time". He just creates to create.

Landon Morgan
Landon Morgan

This is something I could believe back when he was focused on nobodies like Animal Man and the Doom Patrol. His subsequent focuses on A-listers, events and movie pitches lead me to suspect that he's in the game mainly for fame and fortune, rather than just creating for the sake of creating.

Colton Allen
Colton Allen

The definitive works are the ones like DKR that take a steaming dump on everything before them

I don't think it's that they shit on existing material, it's just the fact that they actually do something different and unique with it, which in capeshit is sadly rare. So many readers are content with generic, by the numbers superhero stories that that's what we get. When someone comes along and does something new and people like it, all the hacks just copy that, making it "definitive."

Benjamin Gutierrez
Benjamin Gutierrez

Multiversity was like a prologue chapter to a comic event that hasn't yet even started. I don't think it can be judged as a work of its own (and if I were to judge it as such, it would suck).

Wonder Woman was supposed to be a big deal, equivalent to his All-Star Superman as the defining story of the character, but either it failed at that, or it succeeded and it turned out Diana's just defined as a bore.

Jayden Fisher
Jayden Fisher

His subsequent focuses on A-listers, events and movie pitches
He likes using A-Listers because he thinks that there is a lot of untapped potential in writing about how a character is perceived by our culture. Also I don't know where you got the idea that he has a big penchant for events and movie pitches. I can't think of any events he's done aside from Final Crisis unless you count things like Multiversity, which are just him wanting to write a story and DC deciding they can piggy back off of it.

Jose Russell
Jose Russell

He's literally never written a movie pitch outside of Happy, which was a TV pitch.

The entire point of Happy was his chest thumping retort against Mark Millar's entire career. That is, he wrote it simply to say "Look, anyone can write an edgy high-concept action comedy with endearing characters and get a TV show made". And that's exactly what happened.

If all he wrote were movie pitches, there wouldn't be much point in writing Happy. The vast majority of Morrison comics are completely unfilmable (or even animatable, as seen in the terrible All-Star Supes movie). Wonder Woman Earth One is no exception. The entirety of that story relies on subtext that can only be conveyed in the comics medium, and doesn't have the structure or action beats that a film (or even TV series) would require. It would be REALLY stupid to write a movie pitch that was impossible to make into a movie, especially by a writer who has proven he can write a TV pilot in his sleep.

Charles James
Charles James

Multiversity actually has a number of flaws even if you liked it that are apparent. It is only blind fanboys that don't see the flaws.

Leo Turner
Leo Turner

He's literally never written a movie pitch outside of Happy, which was a TV pitch.
Let's not forget Annihilator, a comic about a Hollywood screenwriter, published by a subsidiary of the film production company Legendary Entertainment.

Brody Diaz
Brody Diaz

Every part of a series must be judged by itself.

No matter how good the final book of a series is if the first sucked it would still suck. Capewise no Marvel movie can ever elevate Age of Ultron

Andrew White
Andrew White

I'll concede that point because I've honestly never heard of it.

Aaron Howard
Aaron Howard

he takes the "black bull" masculinity bullshit western media pushes for...
put the bulls in chains and makes a point that every man would be dominated by wondy

You literally missed the entire point, it was tokenism, but at the same time he played with it.

Hudson Adams
Hudson Adams

Multiversity is forgotten how, exactly?
DC literally just finished publishing Snyder's half-baked Final Crisis/Multiversity rip-off today.

Chase Anderson
Chase Anderson

You have no idea what you are talking about. The reason why Morrison's DC work is so good is because of the fundamental understanding and reverence for the characters he works with and their history.

Angel Evans
Angel Evans

Johnsfags are really mad today.

Aiden Wood
Aiden Wood

This is the funniest shit I've read all day.

If you want reverent continuity porn faggotry, go read Busiek and Waid shit.

Cameron Rogers
Cameron Rogers

Eh, Multiversity was really good until it botched the landing but that was to be expected; he's not very good at those.

Matthew Watson
Matthew Watson

Morrison not good at endings
t.Millar

You didn't write Red Son and you know it.

Nolan Brooks
Nolan Brooks

E1 had been written years beforehand, it was notoriously plagued with delays.

Evan Turner
Evan Turner

Jesus. Your response to criticism of a writer is to pretend that the poster is some other unmentioned before writer and then insult them in a fantasy that you are actually insulting the unrelated writer with claims that are baseless speculation you are claiming as fact. For fuck sake, just take a moment and look at how you are behaving. Stop acting like a fanboy and learn how to actually discuss topics if you want anyone to ever take your opinion seriously. You do nothing but make fans of Morrison look like people not worth talking to.

Zachary Stewart
Zachary Stewart

This, but unironically.

Xavier Lopez
Xavier Lopez

I mean I don't get what you find funny on that post. Have you read Supergods? Morrison adores these characters and their continuities. He also loves Marvel and cape characters outside the big two.

Brody Miller
Brody Miller

go to Sup Forums
see a morrison thread
read thread
make a goatfucker joke, as is tradition
some autist comes storming in and writes a furious paragraph about how superior he is
reply with greentext to reveal the irony in every word of his post
end with a hearty thank you

Haw haw, thanks user.

Brandon Ortiz
Brandon Ortiz

Literally nobody except Batman and Superman have those, not even Spider-Man except maybe Spider-Man Blue I guess
I fucking hate how much value people put on OGNs like that

And the sad part is between Amazonia, True Amazon, and the Once and Future Story, Wondie DOES have quite a few great graphic novels

Justin Davis
Justin Davis

If you didn’t love multiversity I don’t know what’s wrong with you, I bought it in tpb and I’m thinking of upgrading to oversized hc

Landon White
Landon White

People have been clamoring for Multiversity Too for three years. Pax and Ultimate Comics are classics.
Has there ever been a definitive Wonder Woman comic? I'm a huge DC fan but I find her boring outside of team books.

Aiden Turner
Aiden Turner

It will remain as a standalone.

Sebastian Foster
Sebastian Foster

Morrison is all about continuity porn you colossal fucking moron.

Ryan Mitchell
Ryan Mitchell

I fucking hate how much value people put on OGNs like that
To be fair, this is exactly the reason publishers need to knock it off with this writing for the trades crap. One and done stories are simply more marketable.

Also, True Amazon was damn solid. Just putting that out there. So was League of One.

Andrew Martinez
Andrew Martinez

I legit re-read Pax for like an hour today.

WWE1 had good world-building, at least.

Andrew Cook
Andrew Cook

Multiversity is one of the only modern classics, and Wonder Woman is damn close too.

Gabriel Carter
Gabriel Carter

Sorry to be the one to tell you this user, but you're the only colossal moron here. Making vague, inconsequential references to obscure silver age shit is not continuity porn. You've clearly never read Busiek's Avengers. You don't know shit about shit so eat my shit before I shit up your dick.

Anthony Lee
Anthony Lee

Multiversity is still being talked about.

Logan Myers
Logan Myers

Buisick’s Avengers
What a fucking slog of monochrome flashback /retcons and endless text that was, user.
I’m still mad.

Christian Thompson
Christian Thompson

Don't forget to read the Avengers Forever/Avengers Infinity minis :)

Christian Clark
Christian Clark

Probably a Perez thing

Andrew Bell
Andrew Bell

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Nathan Diaz
Nathan Diaz

WWE1 was still the most interesting thing done with Wonder Woman in years, alongside Azzarello's run.

Parker Nguyen
Parker Nguyen

In reality, Morrison was gleefully shitting on decades of mythology that had built up for Supes at that point.

WTF are you talking about?

Liam Young
Liam Young

it's the secret Multiversity tie-in

Lucas Wright
Lucas Wright

WWE1 was about depicting Diana accurately and faithfully in regards to her origins and history, i.e. being back the sexual feminist aspect of the character that all writers after Marston have tried to forget and downplay, not doing THE DEFINING EPIC STORY featuring Wonder Woman. Those are two entirely different and separate things.

Jack Williams
Jack Williams

Azzarello's run was neither interesting nor unique, god family drama had been done even in Wonder Woman before
Regardless of your feelings on the quality of the run, I can't fathom how anyone can think urban fantasy is "interesting"

Parker Rogers
Parker Rogers

or even animatable, as seen in the terrible All-Star Supes movie

That's horseshit. The ASS movie was not bad because it was adapting Morrison, it had the same problem as nearly every other DCAU movie that has been an adaptation of a comic story: You cannot do a strongly faithful and accurate adaptation of a comic story if you only have 70 minutes to work with, you inadvertently have to cut a lot of stuff out and that makes the product weaker as a direct result. You get far better results when you do loose adaptations, like Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths, which, by the by, was adapting Morrison's JLA: Earth 2 Graphic Novel. That was good because it took the basic ideas behind the comic, made it more PG, and then did its own original story with it.

Ayden Martin
Ayden Martin

Oh yeah? What according to you has been more interesting?

Josiah Miller
Josiah Miller

I didn't say anything else recently was MORE interesting, just that Azz's version is not particularly interesting either

Hunter Taylor
Hunter Taylor

except maybe Spider-Man Blue

Spider-Man Blue is nothing but yet another Jeph Loeb project where the art does all the heavy lifting.

Caleb Nelson
Caleb Nelson

I don't disagree, it's just that's the one major example of a Spidey OGN anyone cares about

Evan Smith
Evan Smith

You can't just dismiss an entire genre and claim a work is uninteresting for being that genre. The genre might not be for you but that doesn't mean the work was any less interesting. If anything it makes your opinion on the work mean less.

Dylan Scott
Dylan Scott

On its own, no,but in context to Wonder Woman and her comics, yes, it very much is interesting. Which tells you how forgettable and dull most WW runs are. I never said it was unique. Simply that it was interesting, and it was, because it was one of the few runs where the Greek Gods were more than just tapestry without much personalities, and Diana's motivation and determination played a large role, and for once the New Gods stuff didn't feel hamfisted and ill-fit when they were used in WW.

Owen Moore
Owen Moore

You're right, I shouldn't have, especially because I've read plenty of good urban fantasy. What I should have said was GENERIC urban fantasy, which is what it is. "Greek gods but in modern day" is a concept that has been done to death

Brayden Hall
Brayden Hall

I'm honestly so much more intelligent than everyone else in this thread, and I'm not wasting any more time talking to brainlets without an ounce of education. The world would be such an amazing place if fools understood that they lacked something, and listened to their superiors. It is in your best interest to align your views with mine, yet you resist. I'm done trying to save you. Kill yourselves off and rot into darkness for all I care. I'll be enlightened with or without you.

Noah Morgan
Noah Morgan

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Jacob Ward
Jacob Ward

I don't think you know what urban fantasy means.

Matthew Ross
Matthew Ross

Morrison's run is the most respectful take on Superman there has ever been in the modern era. It's the other writers who don't know what to do with Superman and insert him into a DBZ or Spider-man story.

Joshua Morris
Joshua Morris

But both of these really are classics. More so in The Multiversity's case.

Aaron Thomas
Aaron Thomas

Or because it's nowhere near the quality if DKR or ASS.

Bentley Bell
Bentley Bell

saved

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Kevin Diaz
Kevin Diaz

Forgotten in two months

Yeah don't tell that to Metal

Joseph Cruz
Joseph Cruz

I forgot Metal after the first issue

Jackson Cook
Jackson Cook

Unfortunately Metal won't be forgotten because they're doing that fast due to the weekly Justice League tie-in shit as a direct sequel and you can bet Snyder's JL will also continue referencing Metal.

Grayson Reyes
Grayson Reyes

I meant that Metal hasn't forgotten Multiversity. Metal itself was shit but Multiversity hasn't been forgotten

Brandon Fisher
Brandon Fisher

It's the other writers who don't know what to do with Superman and insert him into a DBZ or Spider-man story.
People who say this, don’t appreciate the versatility of Superman. He’s always been adaptable to any situation. It’s people like you who insist that he can ONLY ever be depicted in one way that creates a false idea of the mythos. This is the reason why I despise All-Star a little bit, even though I consider it a top quality Superman story.

Kevin Richardson
Kevin Richardson

pretty sure user was talking about Morrison's New 52 Action Comics, not ASS

Henry Lee
Henry Lee

99523765
Laugh out loud.

I'd take you more seriously if you knew how to converse in a sensible fashion.

As it stands, it's not even worth giving you a (you) for your cheap bait thread.

Bentley Gomez
Bentley Gomez

It's not like the other writers write all types of versatile stories with him. It's all generic capeshit and soap drama. Morrison's take actually stands out, both ASS and Action Comics.

Noah Sullivan
Noah Sullivan

"Morrison is focused more on making THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING FOREVER comics instead of comics that actually stand on their own merits"
cape comics that reference parts of a vast ninety year history are bad and don't have merit
lmao. actually a fucking brainlet. the whole idea of "standing on it's own merits" is so fucking simplistic that it's embarrassing. sometimes it's great to have a single, self contained story and sometimes it's great to have a story that uses the foundation of ninety years of storytelling in an interconnected universe to tell an epic (I mean 'epic' sort of like the wasteland; a highly referential text that plays with and uses existing ideas to explore more complex, meta ideas). if you think it's a bad thing that some cape comics want to play with the idea of an interconnected multiverse, maybe you should stick to reading stand-alone, self contained comics that don't reference anything but themselves. one of the really interesting parts about cape comics is using all of that previous history to tell the type of story that you can't tell in a single, self contained arc

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