Isn't it out of character for Batman to mock the impending death of a villain begging him to save his life while refusing to help at all?
Isn't it out of character for Batman to mock the impending death of a villain...
Bruce's whole deal in Batman Beyond is that he's become hardened from a life of crimefighting, where he had the War On Crime and nothing else.
He's got no sympathy left.
Ask the KGBeast in Ten Nights. Or the Joker in A Death in the Family.
Batman would've fucking killed you under certain writers if you were monstrous enough. Doesn't mean he would've done it with anyone, though.
Is refusing to save someone from their own actions the same as killing them? Because if I recall, there wasn't anything Bruce could do for the intangible fuckwit
Nah. Bats always was fine making quips at enemies who managed to kill themselves.
After finding out the reporter guy had burned a good acquaintance of his to death just to steal something, Bruce was ready to leave him to what he brought on himself.
Old Bruce had lost all semblance of mercy for the criminal element.
What i want to know is why at the last moments we saw Sneak Peek, he started laughing.
I mean, his laughter quickly turn to dread, but still...who the fuck would laugh in such a situation?
Someone who either went insane with fear or someone who embraced his upcoming death and decided to go out with a smile.
sees fries setup a foundation to make up for his misdees
dismisses it as "blood money"
bruce got crankier as an old man.
wonder how two-face's ultimate fate in that universe ended?
seeing he used his image for terry's training, i'm guessing bruce wasn't able to save harvey.
wonder how two-face's ultimate fate in that universe ended?
Maybe if there was actually something he could have done to save him, maybe.
He went full hysterical. That was the laugh of a man's mind breaking as all hope abandons him.
It depends on the precise jurisdiction and the circumstances but in general, if you can prevent a person's death without risk or injury to either of you and do nothing to help them, then yes.
The less clear-cut it is that you could step in, the more likely you'll get away with it; if you stood by the side of a railroad and the guy next to you jumped in front of the train coming - with maybe enough time for you to see and realize what had happened - that's obviously different to his laying down on the track and your seeing it, for several minutes, but saying and doing nothing to help just because you didn't feel like helping.
With Batman it's even less clear-cut because clearly his plot armor allows him to carry unreasonably heavy dudes clear of a fire or whatever, and to survive. So when he chooses not to do it, it's done for narrative effect - to shock. But if he were to have his actions questioned and a real court were able to examine both his capabilities on the day in question and his motivations, under say a manslaughter charge, it's a toss-up whether he'd get jail time.
What it's not is a moral equivalence test where you say "x is worth more than y because y did y1, which is a crime". Law in the US is descended from the English system, where you expressly cannot have that kind of moral equivalence test because the system respects earlier judgments and the practicalities of real life (the "reasonableness" test, whether an action is reasonable or not) just as much as statute law, so it's impossible to just make it the law that "y1" is a crime and therefore anybody who's suspected of it has no standing in law, with or without being prosecuted. You can certainly comment on feelings (as motivation, even), but you can't base your legal judgments on them, because when you have a system that respects stare decisis and statute equally, moralistic crusades are pretty worthless. Extrajudicial killing - even if it takes the form of manslaughter - won't fly.
He's not wrong to be so, I wouldn't even call him that.
If he existed in our world he'd be someone who gave not only all their money, not only all their time, but all their body to make a city better only to be beaten down, spat in the face of and forgotten.
Fries feeling like not being an asshole after all those years just because he has a warm body to get his dick wet with doesn't mean he's not accountable for what he chose to do with his life before that. I sympathize with Victor, I do, but Bruce absolutely has the right at his age to call his rogues gallery if not the world as he sees it.
They literally did everything in their power to refuse to change, even when he did everything in his to forgive and help them. They should count themselves lucky he somehow never just snapped and decided to pick up where Ra's left off and start training assassins to just precision pick off all the people Bruce knew were a poison to society. Starting with Waller who lived longer and with more comfort than she deserves.
Didn't Dini say that Harvey eventually got his face and mind fixed up?
whats batman endgoal anyways?
keep beating up punks until he is too old or dead?
Create a Gotham where:
1. Nobody has to worry about their loved ones dying in a senseless crime
2. His parents would want to live
Why isn't Alfred in Batman Beyond?
Same reason as Gordon.
But its the future. Surely they are just in an old persons home playing virtual shuffleboard along with Bullock and Montoya.
they were already old in the first series. Alfred was more than old enough to be Bruce's father, he'd have to be like 120 years old or something to be hanging out in Beyond.
But it's the future. If they could have a schway car for Thompson, surely they must've been able to do life extension things.
Like a virtual server for old people.
I know they are both dead, since its not in the character of Gordon or Alfred to continue onward, but I definately think there is probably the means for life extension in Batman Beyond.
There was an episode of Beyond where a dude scanned his brain into a computer before he died and the computer-him tried to download himself into the Batsuit.
Life-extension is possible, but has a heavy cost (mostly because it's a comic book universe fueled by drama).
He's laughing because he's about to get the adventure of a lifetime. DCAU is a hollow Earth.
He'll be hanging out in Skartaris.
Batman fought for close to forty years to change Gotham for the better. What did it get him? A city where street crime is at an all-time high (chiefly due to the rise of a gang based around the image of his greatest enemy), where corporate oligarchs still feel (in fact largely ARE) free to act with impunity, and a hostile takeover of his family's company that he's only barely able to fend off. All that, plus a shitty musical that trivializes all those years of struggle, pain and loss. All that, and no way to do a single thing about it, because his body gave up on him years ago. He could only sit and watch, and let his rage fester.
Bruce having growing bitter enough to let a villain die might not be morally right, but it's certainly understandable.
Imagine Robo Gordon giving Terry advice through the Batsuit.
"Terry, the Joker programmed the old Robin to become a new Joker, you have to rape the Joker programming out of him Terry."
constantly work putting away villians your whole life
system constantly lets them escape time and time again
realize the last 30 years you spent doing nothing aside from greasing the wheels for politicians
say fuck it and be cranky
Terry was the better Batman in the end.
How do you expect to save a guy who phases through everything?
Young Bruce may have still tried to save him even if he knew it was hopeless. Old Bruce knew that there was nothing he could do, and he ran out of fucks to give a long time ago.
I like Old Man Wayne.
But if he were to have his actions questioned and a real court were able to examine both his capabilities on the day in question and his motivations, under say a manslaughter charge, it's a toss-up whether he'd get jail time.
"Not saving someone" isn't manslaughter in the vast majority of cases. At most he would be legally obligated to call for help from the authorities.
Batman is a huge fan of "leave them to their fate", so this was pretty much on character.
The guy was fucked, anyways.
It feels like a really logical and natural progression of Bruce's character. He goes from being willing to do anything to help his rogues reform to laughing at their pain, at least until Terry redeems him.
DCAU Batman really is a great interpretation of the character.
and a hostile takeover of his family's company that he's only barely able to fend off.
part of that was his own fault. after his heart condition made him quit being batman, he totally withdrew from public life. the opening makes a point that wayne corp was fending off buyout attempts by Powers before bruce quit. Once he did quit, he stopped caring and lost control of his company.
he doesnt laugh at their pain, he's just stopped feeling sympathy for it, and considers it karma
Bruce in Batman Beyond is what he became after he lost. Gotham beat him, and it made him extremely bitter and jaded in his old age. Especially when you consider what happened to Tim Drake.
Montoya was busy being the Question
Montoya was busy eating carpet
He does admit that he was partly wrong about Freeze
i'd get that he no longer felt any sympy for fries after nora got cured but he still went bad but other than voluntary asking for the death penalty, there's no real meaningful way for him to show atonement (going to prison just doesn't have any meaning if it's pretty much to break in and out of).
i can't recall if bruce ever drew comparisons to terry's friend that went bad with harvey. i can only recall him comparing terry's situation with melanie with his own situation with selina.
Only because for a multi-billionaire, he thinks dressing up as a robot Dracula every night somehow solves the crime problem than using his money and influence to push better ways to deal with the crime.
You realize he does, in fact, do that as well, right?
true but you rarely see him do so in the comics.
worse is the writers find ways that it always ends in failure (batman is the only option).
He's cracked wise at villains deaths before
How is that line any different from
Harley, after Joker falls to his apparent death: "PUDDIN'!"
Batman: "At this point he probably is."
using his money and influence to push better ways to deal with the crime.
that doesn't even work in real life
why would it work in comics?
Nah, he's just a different breed of Batman. Both Bruce and Terry have their pros and cons.