Civic Nationalism or Ethnic Nationalism?

Civic Nationalism or Ethnic Nationalism?

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I thought it was called Socialist Nationalism

Ethnic.

If civic nationalism worked Liberia would be a first world paradise.

Cultural Nationalism

POL has never been a STORMFAG sanctuary despite what they like to say.

POL actually judges people on there individual work and doesn't fall into identity politics like sjw's.

Except for Jews. No Jews allowed.

Didn't we already decide that you need to go back to plebbit?

Civic

>Cultural Nationalism
this

tpbp

Voluntary ethnic nationalism.

The key is convincing each ethnic group to support segregation of their own volition and convincing the public at large that this kind of thinking is acceptable.

You're already seeing a step in the right direction with some Black and Asian communities calling for 'separate but equal' schools and public services under the umbrella of 'safe spaces'.

That is the kind of thinking we need to be pushing. White neighborhoods. Black businesses. Hispanic schools. Etc etc etc.

The key is convincing minority groups that it's what they should really want. Sell that narrative and liberal Whites will fall in line and support segregation.

How about just Nationalism?

Racial Nationalism. Ethnic Nationalism causes brother wars like WW1 and 2.

civic nationalism is literally nothing, in that, it's just patriotism. Anyone with ANY ideas can claim to be a civic nationalist, because they feel their ideas are "good for the country"

ethnic nationalism will never gain traction in a democratic multicultural nation (which every previously-white country is now), unless it's disguised as something else

libertarianism is the only way white people will ever get their countries back. End affirmative action, end racial quotas, end welfare for able-bodied people, etc. Do it all in the name of "equality of opportunity" without ever mentioning race.

A level playing field naturally favors the white man, because he is superior

Civic nationalism is the ideology which just won the election. It is the ideology which actually has a future in the real world. Ethnic nationalist are faggot LARPers who are destined to piss their lives away fighting for a cause which has been dead for decades. I can't wait until David Clarke cracks down on you fags once he gets the DHS secretary job.

You are ignorant. Ww1 and 2 were both caused by warmongering jews(non europeans) germany would have won both times if it wan't for the material aid and additional manpower from america. Remember the jews have always been in charge of britain's banks and finances aroibd 200 years by that time anyway.

If ethnic nationalism worked then why isn't Nazi Germany still around, oh right it doesn't.

>Americans like cultural nationalist

Typical

it did not worked because jews started the war, they did not the ideology

This

Ethnic.

This. We need nationalism for all. If everyone else but whites starts to wake up about their ethnicity - even the slowest whites will do too.

>ASIAN PRIDE
>LATIN PRIDE
>BLACK PRIDE
>WHITE PRIDE :D

I'm with you. Gonna be tough for the US to do cultural. Sponsored by Walmart and McDonalds

nice antisemitism

Such wars were made possible due to Jew exploitation of ethnic nationalism and intra-racial xenophobia.

...

Can't deny the IQ deviations between races.

So its Civic Nationalism to a point but demographics needs to be controlled

This.

>thinking people wont identify as what they are and therfore a multi-ethnic society wont work

ETHNIC/RACIAL

There must be enough ethnic/racial similarity for there to be homogeneity.
culture, AND ethnicity/raciality.
People want their own culture, based on what they are. thats why blacks in america didnt adopt white culture, even when whites where 90%. They didnt want to just subscribe to some culture they never took part in.

Do you guys honestly think that if a city is 50% black and 50% white(lets say they start of with the same culture), there wont be division and they won't slip apart? of coure they will. they will all consciously or unconsciously group people up based on what they can perceive.

Honestly, multi culture works when everyone are i.e. white. rural norwegians and city norwegians get along fine, why? because there would be unity in a common heritage and ethnicity (overtly or covertly)

THIS GUY GETS IT
i agree, cant force people, just persuade them


>Racial Nationalism.
this too.

>Losing a war means the ideology sucks

All nationalism causes that EXCEPT INTERNATIONALISM

Ethnic Nationalism, by far.

Civic Nationalism is ridiculous. It implies that I could be considered an African if I got African citizenship.

We Irish are expected to accept that Africans (especially Nigerians) who have attained Irish citizenship are 'Irish', but I (rightfully) wouldn't be considered Nigerian if I moved to Nigeria and acquired citizenship there.

Ethnic Nationalism is the only form of Nationalism that makes sense. White Nationalism doesn't make sense to me because it implies that any white person can be an Irishman, for example. And Civic Nationalism doesn't make sense because it implies that anyone who gets Irish citizenship is Irish.

Only the ethnically Irish are Irish.

> opening our borders is how we get our countries back

You've never been to a third world nation before have you? Most work 12 hour days 7 days a week but just cant afford to come to the West so they stay. They have no social security in their own countries, thats not what they would move to the West for if they could. Nationalism is the only way and libertarianism is the antithesis of that.

Psyop, ignore.

explain

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>civcuck nationalism

Worshipping dirt lmao

He's been making the same thread every day

Third post best post

It is an important discussion though. After Trump, we have a wide range of opinion in Sup Forums.

That's bullshit though. Everyone is a European-American there are no Americans except the Natives.

Well let's think about demographics. America is about 60% white, at the younger end of the spectrum (which most Sup Forums users fall into) it's about 50%. Most of these civcucks are non-whites.

yeah, but how is it a part of a psyop?

this, Trump basically used a persuasion technique called pacing and leading.

so then don't open borders

It's the exact same as civic nationalism. Something that sounds good but can never exist in real life.

>nationalism

There was, once, something that made an American an American. You're thinking geographically. As an intelligent user said in a thread lost to the ages, 'no one pledges allegiance to clay'.
Someone can come into the country and the next day if they are making every effort to take on the cultural and societal ideals of America call themselves an American. The problem is we've lost sight of what that even means in recent years.

Ethnic.

Japan, South Korea, and Israel are successful.

>teehee we know it is a strange coincidence, but every white country and only white countries is defined by a set of ideas now that any random third worlder can learn in a year. Stop being racist :^) !

No one calling themselves a "civic nationalist" ever gave a shit about nationalism. They just want to piss off "SJWs" because they are 15 and it's the only time they ever cared about anything beyond walking and video games.

Civic Nationalism doesn't really have a basis does it?
Looking at America we can't decide what our values are. Each side has their own, more than that cultural values naturally shift would we force ourselves into a static society.

yes goy- I mean guys, culture doesn't matter, white identity is what matters, we need a place for all the whites in the world to live together, isolated from the other races

so let all these peopl into Europe okay? no man left behind

Wanking*

If Israel wee successful they would've BTFO the Palestinians. They're still under constant threat.

Ethnic Nationalism.

There ya go slimy gook

This.

It also doesn't makes sense because "values" can be defined as whatever the ruling elite define them as. We already have this, we are told that "British values" are tolerance and multiculturalism, civic nationalism is literally part of the problem.

With America I guess you could say that the country was founded on "values" but they were values coming from a specific stock and culture of people. And if you define American values as freedom etc, then surely that includes the freedom to not believe in American values at all.

Ethnic Nationalism is the only rational answer.

If you're a "Civic Nationalist", you might as well not be a Nationalist.

Civic nationalism
>a country shouldn't belong to the people and descendants of those who built a it, it should belong to anyone who pretends to act like the people built the nation

Ethnic nationalism
>a country should belong to those who built it and should be passed down to their descendants

Civic nationalism is unsustainable and will eventually become ethnic nationalism once any other ethnic group becomes dominant.

that's effectively the same thing as ethnic nationalism though really isn't it. Culture is 99.99% defined by ethnicity

And where does culture come from? Do you think it just appears out of thin air?

Culture is expressed group biology. You cannot separate the two.

Civic.

>being this black and white

Idiots.

Exactly! Winston knew better with "Keep England White" the values of today aren't the sane old ones. Civic nationalism just turns into Detroit.

People that argue for civic nationalism think that culture is totally separate from ethnicity, and that you could slowly replace America's people with, say, japanese, as long as you do it slowly over time and allow them to "integrate"

It doesn't work. History has shown us that. If you think blacks will be able to integrate if we "just try harder" despite them being here for hundreds of years and still haven't been able to integrate at all, then you're a blind fool.

Race and identity matter. A multiethnic society will always have voting blocks that vote based on the interests of opposing ethnicities. It will always lead to poor social cohesion and eventual balkanization.

t. chingchong dingdong

>is against nationalism and borders
>"I don't want to be killed by an abstraction."
>would gladly die trying to enforce World Peace™, Democracy™, Multiculturalism™, Freedom™, Progress™
The average leftist, everybody.

America was founded by white nationalists and is being destroyed by civic nationalists so I'll go with ethnic.

There aren't really any examples of working civic nationalism though.
The closest to successful civic nationalism in existence is a group of communities of different ethnicities self-segregating from each other.

Neither,

Blind racism and being blind to racial differences seem to be equally retarded.

civic nationalism is just a nice way for normies to pretend that they're right wing while not offending anyone. it's just another way of saying you believe in fucking nothing.

why is wanting a nation for your people "blind racism"?

Pretty much this. In Scotland the idea of "new scots", put forward by the scottish nationalist party, is civic nationalism.
Civic nationalism is the same genetic mutliculti shit with a flag stuck on top.

I am mixed French, Irish and English. I identify with the civic nationalism of Canada. Of course I am also proud of my family's history on both sides but my culture and values were shaped here in Canada. Ethnic nationalism would give me three sets of conflicting loyalties.

shouldn't black, white and hispanic americans mix then?

it's the only way for America to be ethnical homogeneous

>Here are the problems with pure "Civic Nationalism"

Magic dirt does not automatically change someone. No amount of cultural programming can rewrite genetic hardware.

>Here are my problems with "Ethnic Nationalism"

Albanian, Belarussian, Celtic, Danish, and Estonian Ethnic Nationalism has a greater claim to the term than White Nationalism does.

>Here is what I propose

The government's structured as a Civic Nationalist one, with elements of Ethnic exclusion
>One or both parents have to be citizens AND the child has to be born on American soil/American base for the child to be a citizen


>People coming from non-European nations AND people who fail to meet points requirements would be limited

In essence, the US pre-14th Amendment birthright citizenship and pre-Hart-Celler.

It might work in your thought experiment but it doesn't translate into reality.
Multi-ethnic has been a failure everywhere it's been tried.

Then they'd become Brazil.

Because blacks and Asians can be just as "based" and nationalistic, discounting them purely based on race is economical and socially reprehensible.

opps I included lelgium well there are some other fake countries anyway

This.
Other ethnic groups will only uphold the dominant ethnic group's culture as long as it's the minority.

Muslims will only pretend to act like Irish people until the Muslims become the majority in Ireland.

>But whether its colorblind adherents like it or not—realize it or not—civic nationalism in the United States is whiter than a hipster bar in Brooklyn.

>In other words, White nationalists and civic nationalists are, for all intents and purposes, on the same side (even if civic nationalists fail the Alt-Right threshold).

>Ethno-nationalism is, to be concise, the extremist variety of civic nationalism in that it limits both the origin and values of the citizen, as it includes ancestry and heritage rather than purely muh shared values.

>In practice however, the civic nationalism of many conservatives limits citizenship by origin as well. Whites and model minorities or successful individuals of minority groups are the face of civic nationalism; less well-regarded are illegal immigrants (mestizos who violate the sanctity of citizenship) or urban criminals (blacks who violate the standards of White civility).

>So it’s not hard to see why the left parses the Republican party and the conservative movement as being racist—what they value happens to be very White or White-presenting. Returning to a society that values Whiteness is an important thing for us, and something civic nationalists do implicitly and White nationalists do explicitly.

This is the best treatment of the divide I have read thus far.

atlanticcenturion.wordpress.com/2016/11/18/zero-to-eighty-eight-notes-on-building-a-deep-state/

It's a non issue being spammed here as we do not reach consensus here, we just discuss and argue.

Many here called it the moment we started getting labelled alt right (like 2012ish), hence why as a whole we refused to take it as our title but rather it was given by external sources.

>is against multi-ethnic societies
>is in favor of segregation inside the US

damn you guys are really pratical

I don't know how it works in Canada but here in the states "white American" is a unifying ethnicity.

Also

>implying that european ethnicities are so divided that you need to let third worlders into your white country

No one said that they can't get their own countries and have free trade and exchange of information with others.

"Nationalistic" for what? Some gay globalist society? Not to mention that as a whole they never will be anyway. What are you going to do anyway? Like how will you judge if they are "nationalistic"'or not? Force them to partake in national holidays at gunpoint? Bam them from expressing their own culture. No you won't, so it's pointless Jewish word games with no practical effect for something that isn't even worth fighting for anyway.

As Millennial Woes put it; "If you replaced the ethnic British people with Chinese people who were culturally British, they still wouldn't be British"

This is because the ethnic group that founded a culture will continue to produce and reproduce that culture throughout generations, whereas the Paki will probably only adopt these values for a generation or two.

Well no shit. If you're a mutt with no identity, of course you latch onto the only existing form of identity available to you. I too am a European mutt, but I have no delusions about my split identity.

The point I want to get across is that civic nationalism will never work in practice. Culture is expressed group biology, which means that culture as you see it today is endemic to the biological group that created that culture. There's a reason humans formed unique cultures across the globe. It's completely naive to think that you can bring people from all different ethnic backgrounds and not expect your "civic nationalist" country to radically change its values over time.

Ethnic nationalism of English and French Canadians has only been dividing Canadians. European ethnicities are more divided than you think. Maybe white people are more united in your country because your country has so much more, ahem, diversity.

Germany was destroyed militarily, not economically.

Idiot.

fucking nihilist

they would if the world wouldnt go batshit crazy on them.


this

no, despite your trips

>Multi-ethnic has been a failure everywhere it's been tried.
i'd like hear some examples if you have some, its not that i dont believe you, i just want knowledge™

Both of these

Fuck off TRS shill

>Civic nationalism
>>a country shouldn't belong to the people and descendants of those who built a it, it should belong to anyone who pretends to act like the people built the nation

More like
Civic nationalism
>a country should belong to the people that can integrate to the ways of the nation. (ways - defined differently by different people) It does not matter if the native population slowly vanishes through this process.

Ethnic nationalism
>a society should be defined ethnically, the native/founding-stock of the land is precious and should be preserved. We believe people are more comfortable in a homogeneous society.

Leaf handing out red pills by the handful.

thistbhfam. The only people who even advocate for civic nationalism are white anyway. It's just whites who are too afraid to face the inconvenient truth.

even in that era America had some idea of a 'melting pot', people came from everywhere to America

Not sure how this is an argument for civic nationalism.

Technically homogenization would result in an ability to form an actual ethnic nationalism.

However, that'd be like losing weight by cutting off your leg. Fucking retarded.

>Ethnic nationalism
Pipe dream
>Civic nationalism
Attainable

You have to know how to pick your battles