I'm a commie. Debate me

Title says it all.

Convince me that Capitalism or National Socialism is a better, more just system.

>Hardmode: No Jews

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=jWTGsUyv8IE
thechristianidentityforum.net/downloads/Gulag1.pdf
scribd.com/doc/181857243/Aleksandr-Solzhenitsyn-200-Years-Together-almost-full-translation-pdf
archive.org/details/UnderTheSignOfTheScorpion
youtube.com/watch?v=oIuW-vNQsQI
youtube.com/watch?v=WcAPJ-kn8Vs
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_and_Death_Are_Wearing_Me_Out
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

How bout them Jews

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The problem with communism is that most commies don't understand that it is only feasible in countries that were previously capitalistic and wealthy (i.e. Western Europe). Marx said so himself. If you want to do away with "revisionism" (the easiest excuse for why Communism has never been truly successfully implemented) you can't ignore this simple fact.

Communism relies on capitalism. It can only come after the fact, or it must be revised to meet the economic needs of the people.

the problem with communism is that it seeks the lowest common denominator

and nobody can be higher than them

read some Alexis de Tocqueville

Easy, all that your beloved Comandante is wearing was made in rich capitalist societies.

Go live in a communist country

>Hardmode: Find a wealthy one
Tip: You can't

amas are for reddit
s*ge

Communists believe in a utopia that is impossible for humans to create and it fails 100% of the time.

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Hello comrade. I trust you are a Marxist-Leninist who supports the actions of Stalin and Mao, the most based kind of communist right?

>inb4 Trotskyism

hello there rebdit

>acknowledges national socialism is different from capitalism
>somehow still a leftist
Troll bait

>I'm a commie
>Hardmode: No Jews
Seems you failed your own test bud.

This is a general fact. Communism can only be achieved when it is possible to fully automate most, if not all labor. This can only be done within the capitalist system, but in order to stop the rampant inequalities a system based on the exchange of money for labor, in which only 10% of people have jobs, is not sustainable.

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Capitalism in decay is not different from capitalism, but people here say it is, so might as well pander to their autism.

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What if I told you that a global capital system and international socialism are two sides of the same Shekel? What if I told you there was a man who found a way out of both and realized this dream to a reality, so he had to be killed by both? What if I told you, that it can happen again and be victorious?

comrade

Yep this is basic knowledge among Marxists.
Feudalism->Capitalism->Socialism (intermediate stage)->Communism.

Whether capitalism or communism, it'l end pretty much the same for you.

The only choice is, do you want to be thrown out of a shitty old rusted huey, or a pretty sikorsky Trump helicopter?

>Hardmode: No Jews

You know the truth is that Jews employ this exact tactic to "win" debates

>"Oy vey tell me why Jews are such bad people, but you can't mention any of the bad things Jews do or you're an anti-semite"

Why is your party full of traitors?
My grandfather was the one who brought the law of the chair to my country and yet the communist party betrayed him and decided to give the credit for his fight to the leaders of the party, leaving him without credit when he should be in the history books of my country .
Nor did they give him credit for his honorary participation in the formation of the Chilean Unitary Workers' Union (CUT).

Communism is quite literally an ideology of and for the Jews.

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Fuck them.

Stalin was an autist who never read much theory, was stupid enough to trust Hitler, and failed at most aspects of socialism domestically.

Mao was even worse. Maoism is a pile of shit that panders to identity politics in an attempt to start a revolution. It's like building a building on foundations of sand.

Khmer Rouge.

Dont worry about the no jew part commies are jews

for me it's jew monarchism.

>A quote from a communist calling another communist a jew! They must all be jews then, r-rite guise?

Honestly come up with something better

>debating communists
>not killing them
why should I

i only debate with humans

Reply to my post OP.

90% of Sup Forums doesn't even understand the basic tenants of Marxism and just thinks of it as a mish-mash of SJWism, muh jews, liberals, OWS, "everything I don't like", globalists, other bogeymen, etc.

As I thought, revisionist trash.

>Convince me that Capitalism or National Socialism is a better, more just system.

Governance based on self-interest is more sustainable than Governance based on communal interest. Communism's inherent flaw is that it expects selfish people to live a lifestyle of communal servitude. This is why Communist government inevitably turn to conditioning (read: brainwashing) their citizens.

The unfortunate truth of human governance is that it has been, is, and forever will be a treacherous equilibrium of self-interest vs. communal interest. Skew it one way or the other and it breaks, so malleability is important for any society to function regardless of economic model.

Just look at China. China's communist and they have one of the fastest growing economics in the world. However, their GDP per Capita is crap and on par with Socialist or Former-Socialist South American countries like Brazil.

Communism simply doesn't work in the long term. It barely works in the short term. Even China, the last great bastion of Communism, is becoming increasingly more Capitalist as its Communist policies start to flounder.

>ctr couldn't win with $6 million backing
>communist faggots think 5-10 of them can defeat pol

If you're truly a commie, then you're a lost cause. You just need to be gassed. Fucking cancerous, kike-ridden parasite.

>Debate me

I'd rather just laugh at you.

Whether we like it or not, a point in time is coming in which almost all labor will be automated, as it is cheaper and easier than employing human laborers. At this point, capitalism can no longer sustain itself, and a new system must be put in place.

Whether Utopian or not, Fully Automated Luxury Communism is the only answer.

> Communism can only be achieved when it is possible to fully automate most, if not all labor.

The only time I would ever embrace communism is if this became reality.

If all labor is automated I do not see a problem with communism that is obviously only if people got a basic income provided from government and I will never be for the abolishing of a persons right to private property.

I think a better system will be formed when most labor can be automated, something better than communism and capitalism combined.

Bakunin isn't a Communist. You may consider him an anarcho-communist, but that is different than a Communist or any other Marxist-influenced ideology.

>you need a phone like you need clothes

Communism is a big ideology. Both Anarchists and Marxists will tell you they're communist. Hell, even Bakunin himself would say so, regardless of his opinions of Marx. What's the point in making a distinction that they both clearly didn't think existed?

You're not the one in charge.

Communism is fine as long as you're the guy calling the shots. If you're part of the proletariat I have some bad news for you.

youtube.com/watch?v=jWTGsUyv8IE

Ahhh, the post scarce arguement.

Since that's just speculation and right now it would be impossible to give everybody on the planet first world living
conditions,I'll just shit your head.

The question is, can self-interested governance be sustained in a society in which 90% of people are unemployed and have no possible work to do, as their jobs can never come back?
There will come a point in the next 30 or so years where the majority of people in the developed world will not have jobs. There is only one solution: revolution. This revolution will lead to communism, whether you like it or not. It is inevitable. Why not try to make the transition smoother?

I'm waiting an answer

Mate communism was made 150 years ago, It's time to create a new economic system, forget communism or capitalism and let's create something new. seriously right now communism are becoming the new conservatives.

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Read up Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.

THE GULAG ARCHIPELAGO - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
thechristianidentityforum.net/downloads/Gulag1.pdf

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyns' 200 Years Together
scribd.com/doc/181857243/Aleksandr-Solzhenitsyn-200-Years-Together-almost-full-translation-pdf

archive.org/details/UnderTheSignOfTheScorpion
Under The Sign of the Scorpion by Juri Lina

"in the shadow of hermes" by juri lina (full movie on youtube)
youtube.com/watch?v=oIuW-vNQsQI
youtube.com/watch?v=WcAPJ-kn8Vs

or even en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_and_Death_Are_Wearing_Me_Out by Mo Yan

They go into how they killed the fucking land owners and what happened.

You have to ask when you forcefully redistribute capital, what happens. Sure, you supposedly get rid of the "bourgeois" but it hurts EVERYONE, especially since generally the lowest classes are retards whether due to their lack of education or poverty and the bourgeois were the only ones who know how to run or do anything.

An easy example of the fact of shared capital in the hands of the proletariat or workers, let's take Burger King for example. Would you give equal say in the business to a burger flipper compared to the top tier university educated CEO or executive? Keep in mind, the vast majority of that business under communism would be owned by low skilled, low education, and low intelligence workers like that due to sheer scale.

To be fair, I do think the current system sucks but that's why we're here on Sup Forums talking about how much it sucks constantly. It's just a matter of which system sucks the least and that's the matter of debate. Communism isn't the answer though, that's for sure.

History

What's stopping the people in power from genociding the normals like every other time your ideology was attempted?

Why do we need Communism in your vision of the future instead of getting a basic income?

I'm not at all communist but when things because so ridiculously automated that most people can't find work, I think the idea of people getting a basic income then having the freedom to do what they want is a good idea.

You might have come here thinking Sup Forums is a Nazi board but that's mostly a meme and even if it was a strict white nationalist website those places are notorious for being roughly 1/3 non-white.

Look up stories of meet ups for WN sites, it's a running joke from the 90's that something between 1/4-1/3 are people who pretend to be white on the internet.

I browse Sup Forums to find hidden gems in piles of shit but this is nothing special considering the state of political discussion throughout recent centuries.

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I can't give you an answer for Some people are dicks, but that doesn't mean their ideology is entirely wrong.

If you want to create something new, make sure it's not been done already. Read "Post Scarcity Anarchism" By Murray Bookchin, it addresses this stuff pretty well.

Because Bakunin is what is now considered an anarchist (and he would also refer to himself this way as well) and Communism, as influenced by Marxism, is totally different and at odds with this. They're totally different ideologies, as my image demonstrated.

Bakunin never supported Marx's vision of historical development or of a large worker's party being the necessary step to achieve his communism.

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Communism always fails, and gets millions killed in the process.

Fuck Leftists
pic related

Capital is not 'better' is just 'is'. And it actually works where as communism and natsoc are totalitarian cluster fucks.

Shit its Commande Marcos
I have respected for based commies like late german russkies and some southamerican fighter against (((their)) (((American))) foreign (((policy) like based che and commandant's

If you are a cultural Marxist leftie with lgbtq anti racist globalist Skype brainwash views FUCK OFF

You are right that Marx and Bakunin had different ideas about how to achieve it, but the end goal was the same: Communism.

You can read Bakunin if you want, Collectivism is a fine ideology. While you're at it, read Proudhon as well. Anarchism is based.

Can we please meme distributionism into being a real thing?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism

> (OP)
>Communism always fails, and gets millions killed in the process.

^^^^^^^^^This.

"We'll kill even more this time and do real communism"

*German
Wtf autocorrect
Soviet, late soviet

Nop, my economic system it's totally new, it's mix between colectivism and private property, I'm not too smart but Im creative. A friend who is really smart and he is studing economics it's helping on the creation of this.

>If you are a cultural Marxist leftie with lgbtq anti racist globalist Skype brainwash views FUCK OFF
If you mean an SJW, no I'm not. People have sexes(Male/Female), but gender is a spook completely made up in order to deal with primal mans material conditions(One man can have many babies with many women, while one woman can only have one baby with one man, therefore they are more valuable and must be kept safe), but now they're not needed. Who gives a fuck about that shit.

well I guess I should just kill myself now then. You've won. Leftism is dead.

>gender is a spook
Holy fuck I'm fucking triggered. First, you're a "MUH SPOOKS" fag. No argument there, I just hate you faggots. But second, there is literally no fucking difference between gender and sex. No difference. There is no such thing as "gender identity", gender is not "social gender roles", it's fucking sex - XY or XX chromosomes. There's no difference.

When you say no jews, you mean a capitalistic world without them? Well now we are talking.

Hey, if it works, good for you. We're gonna need something to fix the clusterfuck we'll be in

First off with a question
Assuming that you're a communist, you want the state to controll the production of everything and have no private market at all?

>but gender is a spook completely made up in order to deal with primal mans material conditions

Do you see why people might take issue with your political beliefs when you talk about how gender isn't real because of what some mentally ill faggots espouse?

Do you have a job?

Are you on food stamps?


Why do you think I am equal to a shit head like you?

I don't. I don't even want to talk about it. It's pointless and distracts from the actual discussion about economics and the fact we're all going to lose our jobs if shit keeps going the way its going.

How can you claim that a system in which people are not allowed to keep the fruit of their labors to be a more just system than capitalism? Communism is theft.

There is nothing left to discuss, the helicopter is ready

>You are right that Marx and Bakunin had different ideas about how to achieve it, but the end goal was the same: Communism.

Yes, everyone's vision of utopia shares similar feature where everyone is equal and everybody gets an equal say and is treated fairly. This isn't far from how we used to live in tribes. That doesn't mean they're the same ideologies, just as anarcho-syndicalism isn't the same as anarcho-primitivism. Realistically, Marx's dictatorship of the proletariat wouldn't give way to decentralized communes all of a sudden once power is heavily concentrated into the state system he envisioned as the preceding phase of development.

It absolutely can based merely on the simple concept of Tariffs. The self-interested people establish a Tariff on goods produced in foreign countries that flood the market, such as Chinese or Vietnamese textiles.

After all, a Republic is capable of understanding when a corporation is taking advantage of its own people. Corporations have been taking advantage of the poor of the world to work jobs that the American lower/middle classes should be doing.

At the end of the day socioeconomic change, a revolution as you call it, can be both bloodless and only mildly disruptive to the greater culture.

Baded af.

>The fruit of their labors
Who made everything? The workers. They made the computer you're using right now. They made the machines the bosses provided to the workers at the factory where your computer was made. They made the machine that made that machine to make your computer, etc., while the boss takes the fruits of their labor.

Who's steeling from who again?

How will this post scarcity communism handle the old world social constructs of religion?

It's fruitless. Your politics are part of your identity, as are ours. Your view of reality has been bent to conform to the theory, and you see evidence that communism is doomed to failure as evidence that communism is viable.

It's too late for you, and all we can do is eliminate the contagion before you infect other kids with the appeal of simplistic feel-good utopianism.

No. I have a job. I make enough to live without foodstamps. Nice ad hominem tho.

>Coming next.
I'm à cjristian. Co'vi'ce me atheists are right.
Hzrdmode, no science.

>well I guess I should just kill myself now then. You've won. Leftism is dead.
Correct.

Get in the helicopter.

>Gender is a spook
Discarded

Commandante Marcos would facepalm
Take a sip if your vegan gluten free smoothie and back to your chuckshed, Andrew from San Francisco

>No Jews
Y-yes goyim don't ever think we had something to do with Communism.

wtf i hate american commies now

>steeling
wow.. so this.. is the intelligence.. of a communist.. woah..

OP how mad are you that marx world wide worker uprising failed and only peasant class and dumb browns adopt his ideals in a watered down state capitalist form?

Its my personal belief. Believe what you want about it. Frankly I don't give a fuck.

Should gains be distributed equally?

Communism is based on force. Capitalism is based on freedom.

Workers who were under the employ and orders of their employers
This theory that factory workers somehow own the products from the factory they work at is retarded
Machines produce cars now does the machine own the car? I mean it put in the same amount of labor a worker would have in making a car

stealing*
that better for you kiddo? Or do you just not have an argument anymore?

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nice argument, the same image could be applied to you

That being said, "just" and "better" are arbitrary terms. It's hard to debate an idiot on the same ground when said idiot doesn't even know what communism is.

>While the boss takes the fruits of their labor
I love debating this point because it's so easy to win. Bosses don't "steal" any value from the workers - the boss is the only reason that the workers' labor has ANY value in the first place. Take literally any job and you will see that the boss provides something that, without it, the job could not be done in the first place. After all, if, as you argue, workers created a product that their bosses then stole and sold for a profit, why wouldn't the workers simply work for themselves?

By the way, you will often see people working for themselves in situations where they have no need for a boss. Usually in the trades - family owned plumbing, electrician, carpentry businesses, etc. Usually the only reason that people work in companies for trades is for the tools, the transportation or for the publicity (actually getting work)

You're one of those fucks from the communist reddit board right? i hope so, i'm down for a comfy laughing at a self-righteous sperg thread

>I-it's just my personal belief!! You can't say I'm wrong!!
Literally the lowest form of argument. Dare I say - not even an argument.