Welcome to /mlg/ - Marxism-Leninism general.
This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.
Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage.
What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:
>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure issocially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need.
>Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.
>To acheive such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working clas, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said.
marxists.org
marxists.org
ML uses a philosophy called dialectical materialism, see here:
marxists.org
It is reccomended that you read some of the critical works of Marxism-Leninism so you can make an informed assessment of the ideology.
Resources:
marxists.org
marxists.org
marxists.org
marxists.org
marxists.org
marxists.org
Welcome to /mlg/ - Marxism-Leninism general
Other urls found in this thread:
en.wikipedia.org
marxists.org
jewornotjew.com
en.wikipedia.org
emilkirkegaard.dk
youtube.com
twitter.com
...
Castro died today.
Capitalism - 1
Communism - 0
Good thinking, comrade.
rofl meant to reply to
Meeting social need is extremely hard. While the market is a very primitive tool it's also very efficient at allocating resources and gauging demand and offer.
The state will also never wither away after obtaining complete control of everything.
Also RIP Fidel
Marxist-Leninists are retarded. Vanguard parties were shown to be defective in their conception.
>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need.
This is closer to economic nationalism than Marxian economics.
>Not using a pic of El Comandante in OP
...
Thats in a different thread. Are you going to make an argument or are you just going to tell me to do my own research. Convince me ore fuck off. s
anti-communists will be cheering today sadly
>castro dead
Another leninist dead, another step forward for leftism.
>cmooon make an argument
Why don't you ask me something specific?
I've lost track of whatever you are talking about.
Not today Bolshevik scum
...
Fascism vs Communism
>economic nationalism
Maybe, but that's literally the core of Marxian economics.
hello rebbit
How does labour itself create value?
I really like the idea of the developed world going this way. Humans are naturally exploitive of the world and the profit motive only exacerbates this. We should rely on philanthropy and good will to advance humanity. This is why we need to do the following:
1. Take every person who is "worth" over a certain threshold and force them into the ground to prevent them from exploiting the world.
2. Have all goods and services belong to everybody, there will be no reduction of velocity in the economy because this will be powered by philanthropy.
And yet the ussr still failed. And here you are, waiting for the revolution that will never come.
Social ownership isn't the same as worker ownership. You may be conflating the terms, but they are not the same.
Russia has suffered many famines prior to the glorious rise of near-communism. Source: en.wikipedia.org
Holodomor simply was not a genocide as your picture implies. But of course your capitalist propaganda "education" would have you believe otherwise. BREAK THE CONDITIONING!
Here is my argument against Marxism:
> Hasn't human history always had a small percentage at the top and most of the people around the bottom?
> Can class struggle be a biological thing? For example, in queen ants exploit worker ants in an ant colony just like a boss might exploit a worker for his company.
>to advance humanity.
What the fuck does this even mean?
Advance humanity how?
'Socially-useful labor' creates value. So by doing something that serves society, creating something people need for example, you put your labor into it (man-hours). So like it takes 10 man hours per 1000kg of corn, that corn contains (from a social perspective) 10 man hours worth of labor value.
(it's shitposting)
Are you twelve of something?
>everything is capitalist propaganda
Castro died. Fucking 2016 man.
>> Hasn't human history always had a small percentage at the top and most of the people around the bottom?
No. Read Engels' "Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State". Hierarchy is a symptom of class society
>> Can class struggle be a biological thing? For example, in queen ants exploit worker ants in an ant colony just like a boss might exploit a worker for his company.
No, it's unique to humans
>Engels' "Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State"
I linked this in the OP btw:
marxists.org
It's pretty interesting actually, I recommend it.
Great so who is decides where all of the labour goes. What motivation do people have to do any work?
not an argument.
Many people try to say that the soviet regime was orchestrated and run by jews, but this is not the case.
SOURCE: jewornotjew.com
Joseph Stalin was not a jew.
A. If I produce more corn in the same amount of time, is what I produced worth the same.
B. Define "socially useful". Is an artist socially useful, or how about a poet?
C. How would you know I put 10 hours into it?
D. Is the value based upon what is produced or the amount of time being put into producing it?
E. What if there is no social need for corn? Do I get the same whatever the fuck the currency is?
F. Why shouldn't I decide what my labor is worth? After all I am a worker, shouldn't I decide what my product is worth?
No I don't have time to read a commie book. Plus the reason why we have classes and hierarchy is different mindset. Some minds are superior to others. It's literally how the people on top survive while people below struggle.
so how come you guys haven't pulled it off yet since Marxist theories have been around for about 200 years and there have been a couple dozen socialist states? genuine question
Were you expecting an argument as a response to a paint comic drawn by someone with the mental age of a twelve years old?
CARE TO EXPLAIN WHY INSTEAD OF LINKING ENTIRE FUCKING BOOKS TO PEOPLE OR ARE YOU TOO RETARDED TO SUMMARIZE
or perhaps only the professional propaganda teams should try to convert.
...
Well even under socialism (transition stage before full communism) you can have state run markets. Get paid by the state, and buy from the state.
In socialism the main thing isn't "make everything free", it's to take collective control over the productive infrastructure, so that goods are produced in accordance with social demand, rather than produced in order to sell for profits.
>Surplus value
Well memed my friend. If you work on shoes and everyone has shoes your shoes are not worth the time it took to create them, they're worth nothing.
The worth of something is defined by what people need, how much they need it and how much there is of it.
If you work on something unnecessary on a capitalist system no one pays for your shit and you go bankrupt. Capitalism is driven by consumer demand and this demand is better understood on a free market.
OP I think that the name should be changed from /mlg/ because it implies that were here to fit into their system, which we are not. We're here to convice the proleteriat that they have nothing to lose but their chains.
This is why the threads should instead be named /mlp/, Marxist-Leninist proleteriats.
>social demand
is an undefinable variable. Hence the failure of the economic theory every time its been tried.
FPBP. You can be American if you want.
>Hierarchy is a symptom of class society
No, hierarchies a symptom of the existence of skill.
>No, it's unique to humans
Dogs have hierarchies, monkeys have hierarchies, even fucking chickens have hierarchies.
Marxism is an incomplete theory. Until the Marxists ditch their emphasis on classes and pick up an emphasis on individuals they will go no further.
>Worker A loads 1000kg of Corn in 10 hours
>Worker B loads 500kg of Corn in 10 hours
>Both have the same man-hours labor value
What is efficiency?
What is motivation to work harder?
What is Homo Sovietus?
Fuck off commie fuck
You bring shame to your family
Commit seppuku
I was expecting to trigger autistic communists like you. The best part about /leftypol/ raids is that you get triggered easily and have no real arguments for communism.
I was thinking, some of the more rational arguments against Marxism tend to focus on Hierarchy. They state that Marxism is opposed to it, and incompetents will have equal say and footing in society as productive, intelligent people.
However, Marxism does not advocate this. So this argument, however rational it may be, is a non-argument when it attacks genuine Marxism.
Marx and especially Engels were Darwinists to the core. Although Lenin didn't really carry on this aspect of Marxism all that much, it is apparent in their work and personal correspondence.
Even their adage:
>To each according to his contribution
>according to his contribution
implies hierarchy.
I don't agree with marxian economics but i'm versed in them so i'll answer.
A. No. If you create more corn, your product is worth more. Read en.wikipedia.org
B. If it is subjectively useful to someone, it is useful.
C. Irrelevant. See the link in A.
D. The socially necessary labor time. See A.
E. Then it has no value.
F. Surely you understand that value/price is socially determined by market forces
FUCK YOU NIPPON, CASTRO IS FUCKING DEAD, COMMUNISM IS CANCEROUS!
...
It's not necessarily existence of skill but mindset.
> Rich mindset: I need to purchase assets to grow more wealthy
> Lower class mindset: I need to work in order to feed me and my family
>No I don't have time to read a commie book
That's your problem then lads. Stay ignorant and subservient.
Stalin and Mao were worse than Hitler
>captcha made me select a storefront for a place called "lefties"
None of what you wrote is in disagreement with marxist economics though. Try reading about a subject before engaging in a discussion.
>A
Marx defined the labor value as the "social average". So you would produce more value per hour than a slower worker.
>B
Socially useful in that it fulfills in society. Art fulfills various mental needs so I would consider it socially useful
>C
The labor theory of value only has validity in the context of commodity production. It was Marx's way to explain where profit comes from and how prices are determined.
>D
Amount of time, again for socially useful commodities
>E
If nobody needs corn, corn is not socially useful and has no value.
>F
Why do you think that you can/should decide what your labor is worth? What does it actually mean to 'decide what my labor is worth'?
See here.
Heirarchy and a classless, stateless society are mutually exclusive states of being.
Serious question: are you guys worried that you might see race/IQ stuff and change your views? A lot of the data supporting it is pretty straightforward:
Basically if you run a regression where you try to predict IQ from self-reported ancestry and genetic ancestry (from testing), you get pretty much all of the weighting on the genetic ancestry. How can you reconcile that with environment or cultural bias theories?
Not an argument.
Try explaining rather than telling me a book title that I have no interest in reading
>fulfills in society
fulfills a need*
Variety of factors
-constant undermining and sabotage by Western powers
-unwise establishment of governments lacking proper checks a balances
-it's very difficult to properly distribute resources without markets in a pre-digital age. With the size of modern economies it is practically impossible for mere humans to properly factor all the data input from the billions of transactions that occur to know how to allocate resources. with the advent of AI and automation it will be much easier. The collapse of the employer-employee relationship due to automation will lay bare the basic contradictions of capitalism and the market system, forcing us to adopt socialism to survive.
In short, the material conditions were not yet ready. Socialism develops out of capitalism and we tried to force it too soon
Explain to me how eliminating classes doesn't have anything to do with hierarchy.
This doesn't really contradict Marxism. Maybe liberalism though.
If you can't even fucking summarize the basics I don't think it's their problem, I think you are just fucking lazy. Fucking nigger faggot.
Umm yeah righto, how long was Hitler in power?
Oh that's right, less than 10 years and Germany was a crater filled with Sauerkraut because they focused on racist policy instead of what matters, the economy.
How long was Stalin in power?
That's correct, decades until he died, leaving the soviet union as the number 2 power in the world.
Show yourself the door.
Hahahahaahahahha hope the rest of you die out soon. Praise Kek.
100000000
This is some seriously gay shit.
Fuck off commie faggot.
Your ideas are shit and you should kill yourselves.
Jokes and memes aside:
Communism has only ever resulted in dictatorship and slavery, why do people think it will give them freedom when the reality of it in effect is the opposite?
"That's not real communism" xd
saged, reported and hidden.
Leninism has resulted in dictatorships and slavery.
>that I have no interest in reading
Afraid it would change your views?
It outlines how really, contrary to the claims of "human nature", there's nothing natural about capitalism at all, merely a culmination of thousands of years of class society, familial rites and bourgeois ascendancy.
>STALIN
>MAO
2 worst murderers of all time
>You have nothing to lose but your lives!
never ending revolution is meme-tiered thinking
Comrades, how do we solve the supermarket problem? Why can't PhD communists solve what capitalist pajeet cornershop owners solve everyday.
Of course it is. If you're a capitalist entrepreneur and misunderstand the market and overproduce / underproduce stuff YOU are directly punished for it. Either by profiting less or by having to liquidate your shit and losing even more money.
There's no such mechanism on a socialist/communist system. Even the incentive to not fuck production up is lower.
They were heroes of humanity. Some of the greatest men of the 20th century.
...
THIS KILLS THE COMMUNIST
...
Why don't you explain it to me than me spending hours in my busy schedule trying to read that book. Please be quick but detailed. Redpill me nigga
>its not my responsibility to provide context to a movement i care about, le seize the means of production, dont ask me what it means, read the book.
i see marxist ideology working even in your comment.
Fuck off reddit fags
lol no
Literally disgusting.
Lol there's like 6 products on the shelf.
As someone living in a totalitarian state, how does communism sound like to you?
THREAD SOUNDTRACK
youtube.com
How does it feel commies to be outsmarted by poointheloo shopkeepers, who solve every day problems your idols and professors could never come up with solutions to.
LMAO
M
A
O
Does anyone else like to get drunk and play Red Alert while crying?
How does it feel to go down a delusional rabbit hole of incorrect thinking and then pat yourself on the back for it?
Can you not see how this makes no sense whatsoever?
>Marx defined the labor value as the "social average". So you would produce more value per hour than a slower worker.
yes but will he be rewarded for his higher production rate?
>Socially useful in that it fulfills in society. Art fulfills various mental needs so I would consider it socially useful
I think art doesn't fulfill anything in society. Objectively art is useless. Especially with cameras. Who gets to choose what is useful in society? Is dancing useful? Should we waste labour on pro dancers? What about Major league gaming? You might not like it but plenty of people do.
>The labor theory of value only has validity in the context of commodity production. It was Marx's way to explain where profit comes from and how prices are determined.
The labor theory of value has validity in every context.
>Amount of time, again for socially useful commodities
So if I make an iphone in 10 hours and another guy spends 10 hours making a sandwich will they both be worth the same thing?
>If nobody needs corn, corn is not socially useful and has no value.
Corn has lots of value. Its in all of our foods as americans. So people who like corn can just go fuck themselves. I only get to eat what the state prescribes me?
>Why do you think that you can/should decide what your labor is worth?
why shouldn't I be able to tell people how much I will work for? its like seizing the means of your own life.
>What does it actually mean to 'decide what my labor is worth'?
It means you come to a bargain with your employer over how much they will pay you for your service to their country.
Could you give a list of introductory books to read?
Naruto is best anime.