Referendum "Nequaquam" Edition.
What the referendum actually means (ita):
>Marco Travaglio - Perchè No Tutte le bugie del Referendum -
youtube.com
tl;dw
>Perché NO Tutte le bugie del Referendum (di Marco Travaglio) - Estratto a Di Martedì 21 giu 2016
youtube.com
Previous:
Other urls found in this thread:
discord.gg
camera.it
referendumcostituzionale2016.it
en.wikipedia.org
referendumcostituzionale.online
bastaunsi.it
wallstreetitalia.com
primeeconomics.org
express.co.uk
youtube.com
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
youtu.be
youtube.com
vice.com
armietiro.it
twitter.com
>Italian Sup Forums Discord - Sup Forumsiticamente Scorretti
discord.gg
>PDF sulla nuova legge elettorale (in Italiano)
camera.it
>Sito Ufficiale sul referendum (in Italiano):
referendumcostituzionale2016.it
>Information on upcoming referendum (in English):
en.wikipedia.org
>Sito ufficiale del comitato per il No (in italiano)
referendumcostituzionale.online
>Sito ufficiale del comitato per il sì (in italiano)
bastaunsi.it
>JP Morgan: sbarazzatevi delle costituzioni anti-fasciste
wallstreetitalia.com
>JP Morgan: Enough with anti-fascist costitutions
primeeconomics.org
>Maria Paola Toschi, strategista del mercato globale al JP Morgan Asset Managment dice a CNBC: "Il referendum Italiano di questo Dicembre potrebbe creare volatilità attraverso i mercati mentre l'anno si avvicina alla sua fine"
>Maria Paola Toschi, global market strategist at JP Morgan Asset Management told CNBC: "The upcoming Italian referendum this December may create volatility across markets as the year draws to a close."
express.co.uk
youtube.com
Translation of the summary (first 3 minutes) is the following (1/2):
Let's see how the new Senate works, folks, because the fastest Matteo has taken an easy process, take two system and multiply them by 5: 10 systems. The snakes and ladders game, stuff for psychiatric departments naturally, will increase out of proportion the contentious between Chamber of Deputies (CoD) and Senate (S), Parliament and Regions, with infinite conflicts of power that will all end in front of the Constitutional Court. It's the "Office for Complications of Simple Affairs". Please, follow me in these 10 stages of the snakes and ladders game.
1. For Constitutional Laws, the system remains the same
- Perfect bicameralism between CoD and S
2. For Ordinary Laws, absolute chaos:
- Approval is up to the CoD and S can always give its 2¢
- Montecitorio Palace (CoD) approves, sends the law to Madama Palace (S) where within 10 days 1/3 of senators' votes are enough to review the text
3. In case of review by S, there're 2 options:
- S can leave everything as it was decided by CoD or amend the law within 30 days
4-5. If they amend within 30 days, the law goes back to CoD who have last word and there, there're 2 options:
- Receive and approve the amendments by S
- Ignore the amendments by S and restore the original text approved by CoD with the Simple Majority (half +1)
6. Completely different procedure for laws about Territorial Autonomy's Matters:
- If the government decides to activate them, there's the Clause of Supremacy (don't ask me what it is because it's too complicated )
- S has again 10 days to review or ignore them, then 30 more days to approve eventual changes
- If S doesn't touch anything, it passes as CoD decided.
7-8-9. If S changes anything, the text goes back to the CoD:
- CoD can discard the amends done by S, but in this case the Simple Majority won't be enough, that would be too simple, they need Absolute Majority vote (half +1 of the elected)
- In case S's amends were done with Simple Majority, CoD can also overcome it with Simple Majority vote, maybe, this is not very clear because they're still arguing about it.
- Without majority in the CoD, the law passes as S amended it.
10. The Financial Law follows yet another different process:
- CoD approves it then sends it to S
- S automatically votes it but have only 15 days to amend it
- If S amends with Simple Majority, CoD can re-amend the amendments with Simple Majority
- If S amends with "Complicated" Majority and CoD doesn't reach a "Complicated" Majority, nobody knows how the fuck we're going to figure it out. Then, if there're conflicts or appeals, presidents of both chambers meet to find a resolution, but, the presidents are 2 people: if one has an idea and the other has another idea, who wins? the most beautiful one? or do we go in front of the constitutional courts? about these "silly issues" the reform doesn't care, thus leaves everything suspended.
This way We have gone from Perfect Bicameralism to Bullshit Bicameralism/Crazy Bicameralism (2/2).
tl;dr for everything else:
>Reduce senate members from 315 to 100
This makes corruption easier. It's more easy to bribe 51 senators than 158 and much cheaper. The original law writers decided it would be 315 in order to make corruption harder and prevent the creation of a echo-chamber.
>Increase of signatures from 50'000 to 150'000 required for Citizens' Initiative law proposal.
This blatantly reduces the power of taxpayers, it's already hard enough as it is now to find 50'000 signatures, figures 150'000.
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
IMPORTANTE IMPORTANTE IMPORTANTE
>IMPORTANTE IMPORTANTE IMPORTANTE
To non Italian speakers: disgrunted journalist shows evidence of globalist agenda
- Napolitano (old dude in vid, former pres of Republic - highest authority in the country and creator of the very same referendum we're talking about) saying on TV that the objectives pushed by Renzi are lies covering a different agenda.
- journalist describes how his colleagues "went crazy and couldn't handle it"
- journalist shows and reads excerpts from 48 pages 2014 italian senate document describing globalist objectives, calling free voting system "limited", advocating against it and making the example of the world's "greatest democracies" as the one to follow (Guess who!)
What's the ref about and when will it be over?
It is about the constitution and it affects how the parliament and senate work together, it also reduces the number of senators and other stuff: The day to vote is december 4th, results will be on the 5th.
Thread theme: youtube.com
bernoccolo
Some great nostalgia right there
RIP
"io voto Sì per cambiare" elettore medio democrazia cristiana
Not so fast!
>current year
>da qualche parte in italia c'è ancora gente iscritta a DC
c'è un modo meno ovvio per pararsi il sedere e pretendere di votare?
4 December can't come soon enough.
Maybe the 5th we will start talking about real issues affecting Italy.
Più che altro mi fa incazzare gente che ha 20 anni e crede a Renzi
Eh if YES wins we'll have really big issues to talk about
Saluti camerate italiane. I'm a citizen of Italy in Brazil and still haven't voted? Should I vote yes or no? Redpill me on the referendum, please!
In chi credere?
Salvini, Renzi, Silvio, Monti, beppegrillo.it?
Anch'io credevo in Roberto Fiore, ma Forza Nuova fa sempre lo zerovirgola..
SI SI SI SI SI SI SI SI SI SI SI
mia nonna (quasi 90enne):
>io sto sempre con DC
>>vai a votare quest'anno?
>no che voto a fare, non vincono mai
>>...
Yes less power to people more power to Jews
Even on Pol my God we are fucked
Pretty much convincing!
Vote No, who tells you otherwise is a Renzi shill
hey guys. burger here. Just wanna say, keep up the good work!
Cosa nostra when!
Thanks, I've been reading some comments online and being definitelly right-wing/fascist I'll vote No for me and my mother... I have until tomorrow to deliver the ballots on the post office.
Credere a Ranzie no.
Capire che è il male minore sì.
Thanks for helping huehuebro, Renzi is trying to buy the referendum sending pro-yes brochure, he's totally desperate
Mind that the whole left-wing intellighenzia is for NO
The right wing too though
Only diehard piddini are with Renzi
And banks of course
And Merkel
And Junker
Italy will be far more authoritarian and centralized if YES wins. Otherwise if NO wins, we are back to the whole bourgeois discussion in democratic parliament
Male minore Ahaha hahaha #staisereno #bastaunsì kys
nice, nobody really likes this reform here, personally I believe the constitution should be untouchable, or at least the base structure of our parliament should.
>autoritharian
>with Renzi
What a nice idea
Diehard piddini are for NO. If YES wins Renzi will probably be able to begin his own party, which will be more right wing than Berlusconi
If Yes wins Renzi will stay with PD, he will call early elections just to consolidate his power, then we'll be fucked for 4 years
Well what do you suggest?
Renzi sarà di bassa statura, ma non vedo giganti intorno a lui
Italeaf here, Family here all voted No.
When all the ((((media)))) supports a Yes victory you just gotta vote NO
I'm gonna accept whoever is going to stop the boats and that won't bend 90 grades in front of the EU
Someone against TTIP would be good too
I think Merkel prefers Italy to switch governments and impose Germany's rule as always. Renzi is the only one to ever say something against the EU. Much harder than Silvio, for all I see
Done!
>Pic Related
>tfw 100% italian blood
>apart from the corruption, thought we were a strong nation
>this shit
FUUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKK. WHERE DID THE FUCKING CONQUERING ROMANS GO. DID THE GERMANICK FUCKS REALLY SCREW UP THE BLOOD THAT MUCH?
Based
No. See here
Italy is still Supermajority Roman descendants
Well Done Camerata!
I thinks Grillo would agree with the policy you just proposed. But his guys are just a bunch of liberal cucks for what I see.
> Renzi is the only one to ever say something against the EU.
Yeah, he did that one month before the day of the referendum, he's our guy, alright
>the little flag
Based AF kek.
Jej
Considering that no Italian prime minister has ever said anything against the EU, it's a start. I hope he finally starts riding this horse and begins some serious anti-EU propaganda, but not sure he's so based
He has a Casapound brooch too, holy shit
Dude if he loses the referendum he will do anything to regain trust, he will be much more anti-EU if we get rid of this shitty reform
But crossing out No means you vote Si. Pretty sure that's how it works.
Yup, not all HueHue's are shit, just most of us! :)
Sup Forums caring about none-white country
What logic do you have to use to think that way?
see
Mmm this is very interesting, user. You almost convinced me to vote NO
>If YES wins Renzi will probably be able to begin his own party
He will make "his own" party even if NO wins.
He is the only one pro-SÌ and whoever votes SÌ is going to vote Renzi again and again anyway.
Losing by 10% would still make HIM alone the first political figure in Italy since M5S still has no clear leader.
>renzi
I'm trying to be reasonable, he surely won't give up his seat, it's the best outcome we'll ever get
ma il cucktetto che ha cagato 'sto schifo di articolo? vice.com
FILIO DI TROIA
TI AMZAZO TESTA DI CAZO TU NN SEI UN VERO ITALANO PEZZO DI MERDAAA!!!!!
(((vice)))
Mmm of course if NO wins Bersani, D'Alema and company will reclaim the leadership of the party, so he may fund a new one.
Ma il ragazzo ha talento (più di tutti gli altri di tutti i partiti messi insieme), ammettiamolo, non vogliamo dargli una possibilità? Just saying
>open article
>RANA RANA RANA
CANCER WARNING
Wasn't that what people said about Berlusconi? "just give him a chance man, just a chance dude"
Anyway he's good with words sometimes, but he's a liar and, let's face it, he shouldn't be in that position
I heard he wasnt much loved in Florence too
>mfw i've never seen a thread with so many italian posts
good to know there are people caring
Too fucking long, how autistic is Vincenzo Marino on a 10-10 scale? holy kek.
Ah ma quindi "l'ultradestra" esiste per davvero
>Rome wasn't white
>Sup Forums thinks that proving Italians are Romans makes them white
KEK
Well your beloved Constitution gives the power to the Parliament to elect a prime minister, so he's in power cause an elected parliament gave him the chance.
I think he has much more political verve than Silvio, who just made slogans. Even his statements on the EU were just slogans (Culona, etc), while Renzi actually says things with content.
who cares about that in italy? I'd rather be considered non-white if I can avoid getting dragged in all that white guilt cuckoldry bullshit that the lefties spew around all the time in the usa.
I don't know. I would push for the NO just because the scenario of him becoming much more anti-EU is appealing.
Berlusconi had some actual political influence though, it's thanks to him if we had economical deals with Russia, and also thanks to him we stopped the immigrants from coming here
Renzi just yells slogans, doesn't look like he's that good, he has done or said nothing against the EU until october
Also bersani was the one candidated premier, Napolitano just decided to put Renzi instead
Another good reason to vote NO. Approving the constitutional reform may make easier for gun grabbing leftist to approve abhorrent laws that further restrict our right to legally acquire guns.
All gun grabbing attempts we had in the past internally where either defused or severely lightened by the senate. With this reform the senate will be stripped of almost all of its legislative power, meaning that the parliament will have no trouble pushing anti-gun legislation.
It will also remove the possibility to have referendums on laws mandated by EU, like the bullshit AWB they are concocting up right now.
If you are a gun owner, or if you believe in the right to be armed, you should vote NO.
The D-477 committee, which is an organization that is currently fighting the B7 EU ban proposal, has endorsed NO.
sarebbe in realtà un gruppo molto variegato che esiste da diverso tempo e che non corrisponde manco per la ceppa alla "gggente" evocata sempre da questi semicolti dal baffo pregiato.
So what's the best way for him to become a promoter of an exIT, and finally dissolve the union? As you can see, that is all I care for
We should push some pic related propaganda on the streets or something
AYO HOL *smacks lips* H-HOL UP SO YOU SAYIN WE WUZ ROMANS AND SHIET
Also this
No, he said he wants to change the union, I think he will give an ultimatum, maybe he's gonna push for that change or he will try something with other South european countries, like Spain and greece
We should see what happens to the eurozone once the No wins, I'm sure if the euro crashes he will be eager to be as anti-Eu as he wants though
I had no idea, nice info.
I need to go to vote before December 4 but the truth I do not understand much of the subject, some Italian friend who explains to me in a simple way this referendum?
There are plenty of info in the thread, the tl;dr version would be: vote No or you'll play into the globalists agenda
Vote NO
When are you mooks leaving the EU?
Wasn't Seelveeo the one that saved us from getting bailed out by the EU?
read the first replies in the thread, there're some details.
Not soon enough
Working on it though
Where are you from user? Are you a student? Do you get involved in your local politics?
You really must send all this papers in english
The No would be a step in the right direction.
You are supposed to be Italian
I'm from Rome, where I work I often meet people with political background, so sometimes I'm stuck with them and have to talk about something
Politics it's more of a hobby for me, I've never studied law though, if that's what you're asking
Ah I get it, you are pushing for NO cause you work in the Senate and you're afraid you're gonna lose your job.
Just kidding. I was interested in understanding more about where such a based view could come from. I'mm impressed, cause I talk politics with many (students and not students) and their arguments for YES or No are always very sloppy in almost all senses.
and I'am. But I leave italy as a child and I do not understand the language
Maybe you should try calling the embassy, I tried searching a something in english but there was literally nothing.
The "Attention" part basically says:
>don't doodle on the paper sheet nor the envelope
>don't write sender's name on the envelope
>don't tear the small envelope and the paper sheets
>the vote is personal, free and secret, can't vote more than once otherwise I spank you