Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.
Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage.
What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need.
>Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."
>To acheive such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said.
marxists.org
marxists.org
ML uses a philosophy called dialectical materialism, see here:
marxists.org
It is reccomended that you read some of the critical works of Marxism-Leninism so you can make an informed assessment of the ideology.
Resources:
marxists.org
marxists.org
marxists.org
marxists.org
marxists.org
marxists.org
Welcome to /mlg/ - Marxism-Leninism general
Other urls found in this thread:
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As much as I want communism, I believe the world cannot support it until we reach a state of extremely high automisation and a good approximation of post-scarcity (à la star trek). The tech just isn't there that.
Add in that the other kind of society those circumstances can create is an extremely oppressive one. A small group of people/corporations own the means of production of pretty much everything that isn't basic needs.
>As much as I want communism, I believe the world cannot support it until we reach a state of extremely high automisation and a good approximation of post-scarcity (à la star trek). The tech just isn't there that.
We already have millions of empty homes and more than enough food to meet everyone's basic needs. Not to mention all the resources wasted due to war and consumerism.
This. Capitalism first needs to run its course naturally then it will begin.
capitalism and communism different sides of the same coin.
So this is that idiotic brigade coming from Le reddits /r/communism
The time is coming soon. Capitalism is on it's last leg
most of the left wing subreddits are shit
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how long will that be though? capitalists had no problems chopping off heads to dismantle feudalism. that wasn't "natural"
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Literally when
The Netherlands was the first capitalist economy, and it happened naturally. Nothing natural about communism.
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>Marxism-Leninism
do you need sub 80 IQ to sign up?
Why don't communists do like libertarians and find land where they can make their own country instead of dying pointlessly trying to take somebody elses' land and having their ideas rejected by the masses?
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>The Netherlands was the first capitalist economy, and it happened naturally. Nothing natural about communism.
ah yes, human beings are born with ingrained knowledge of private property, wage labour, markets, capital and stocks
400 million wasn't enough.
I wouldn't call it on its last leg. It's having one leg amputated for sure though. Not to mention that unless you go "stateless" worldwide, you'll be fucked. And that's just not going to happen.
Capitalism is a market system, not a method of government. Communism is sort of both.
Don't give me the fucking "it's unnatural" argument. Airplanes are unnatural. Money is unnatural. TVs are unnatural. You could argue that states beyond tribal-scale are unnatural.
>Make "country that is stateless
>There is basically no terra nullus left on earth
>Get invaded for stealing other country's territory
sources for the starvation? That only happened with Maoism and it was totally unrelated to the marxist praxis. Try harder
Marxists' ignorance of economics and resource management always gives me a chuckle
Soon you will get bored of posting here and go back to pleddit. Sup Forums is a majority NatSoc board.
Lmfao these are actual communists. This is rich.
I'm using Marx's own terminology you absolute inbred fucking wastes of space. Marx called communism a "naturally emergent" economic model, like capitalism was. He though it was the next logical step after capitalism.
I guess bloody revolution is about as natural as it gets, right fellow commies?
"Libertarians" (aka propertarians) want to privately own land. Communists want all land to be held in common. So that makes no sense. Communism, like capitalism, must encompass the world.
B-but they killed the sparrows (or whatever bird it was). Never forget that famous marxist quote
>Proletariat of the world, unite, and kill those fucking sparrows
You can't magically assume the same level of production under both systems.
And globally we have no where near enough homes or quality food.
Maybe they can use some capitalism and purchase the land
go back to fucking reddit
>I'm using Marx's own terminology
Into the trash it goes
You should go back
Nah, discourse is fun. One of my best pals is a nazi and he knows I'm a commie. Discussions are fun.
>tfw you are a filthy intelligentsia
Regardless of the whole communism shtick. Is there actually any country in the world selling of soil permanently? Like I said earlier, there's not really any Terra Nullus left, besides arguably Bir Tawil. And that's not exactly soil waiting to be exploited, so to say.
>I'm using Marx's own terminology you absolute inbred fucking wastes of space. Marx called communism a "naturally emergent" economic model, like capitalism was. He though it was the next logical step after capitalism.
That's not how you phrased it. You fell for the human nature meme.
>I guess bloody revolution is about as natural as it gets, right fellow commies?
Class struggle is violent, no two ways about it. As evidenced by the reactionaries on this board and the revolutions in France, America, England and elsewhere
I believe that, communism had to spread in order to be continued look how many countries the USSR had to run in order to keep feeding Soviet Union. Containment was good at slowing it down.
I said "nothing natural" about communism, it's your fault if you're illiterate on the subject and interpreted that as human nature and not emerging economic systems.
You literally don't know what you're trying to defend here.
Africans might be willing to sell some land at the right price, maybe something in South America.
you can buy land and set up your own community. The law doesn't prohibit your from making your own community, and making it as communist as possible (you can agree with others to share everything)
The law, on the other hand, prohibits making a purely capitalist community. weird.
Then again, to buy land you would need money, and to get money you would need a job, and we both know where the problem is...
>muh 400 gorillion
We need Shkreli to buy Sup Forums some shithole in Africa, see what we can do with the place.
faggot communist """raids"""
Fucking kill yourself you faggot. Saged.
You still haven't told me why it is not natural. Nothing else can replace capitalism, even systems like fascism merely suppress its contradictions briefly and retain private property. The nature of its contradictions and class relations can only end by abolishing the system.
I'd argue that communism is a pretty natural emerging economic system.
Take your stone-age tier tribe. Everyone does kind of everything, and shit is shared. People are mostly independent, but look to elders for guidance. And don't forget the household :^)
>lel, my cartoon talks about the middle class
>oh no no no no, there won't be a middle class if I have my way
Get fukt commie
Communism is a failed system
Honestly, this is the worst place to go to change people's minds
You would have better luck blue pulling your normie friends on Facebook than here on Sup Forums
Sage in all fields
This is a good thread so far, we are going from communism to libertarianism
fuck you! my wife is Venezuelan and her family had to flee to my country because Venezuela is now a starving poor as fuck country that cant have the lights on even though they have an ocean of oil, fuck communist
Why are you guys spamming this thread everyday
This is cringy and not going to change Sup Forums at all
Then rise up and properly make the oil market a free capitalist one. Bring down the cartel that is OPEC my friend.
I literally told you why in my FIRST POST YOU RETARD.
Capitalism first emerged in the Netherlands, as a natural progression from aristocracy to Plutocracy, with a heavy focus on investments in trading companies.
Communism was first seen in the USSR, where it was implemented by a bloody revolution. The economy didn't adjust itself into communism, it was forced there by the Bolsheviks.
Try to keep up, bong.
You can say it all you want, it isn't true. By Marx's logic no revolution would be necessary, the economy should adjust itself.
But you've never even read Marx, have you?
>one thread
>raid
There are plenty of shitty capitalist states as well
>buying land
>"yeah guys, I decided to knock it off with the whole Revolution of the proletariat thing, let's BUY a country and make a centralized communist government!"
This is how retarded you sound
leftypol thinks they're being subversive KGB agents, in reality no one gives a fuck and they're convincing absolutely no one that Communism is a good idea
sage it
>Capitalism first emerged in the Netherlands, as a natural progression from aristocracy to Plutocracy, with a heavy focus on investments in trading companies.
>Communism was first seen in the USSR, where it was implemented by a bloody revolution. The economy didn't adjust itself into communism, it was forced there by the Bolsheviks.
That's because the Bolsheviks tried to skip from feudalism to socialism. Tsarist Russia was backwards with a small working class.
Marx believed a democratic transition from capitalism to socialism was possible in some countries, but not all.
There was nothing natural about the establishment of capitalism in France, England, or the entirety of the American, Sub-Saharan and Australasian continents. It had to be forced at gunpoint.
I merely responded to another user who suggested the buying land.
Again, capitalism is not a form of government, it is a market system. The natural successor of aristocracies were democracies/plutocracies, which were famously peacefully instituted by such bloodless events as the French Revolution
Are you fucking dumb?
OPEC lost money because the US started producing oil at a higher rate
If anything OPEC helped Venezuela get somewhere because they controlled the oil supply and the oil markets.
Also, what do you want him to do toothpaste? Invade Saudi Arabia from South America?
Fuck, commies are dumb. No wonder you believe in such a stupid system
>forced meme
There is nothing worse than people trying force a meme.
>nothing natural about England
What are you even talking about. When exactly do you think capitalism was forced on England? The Americas and Australia adopted the economic model of their founders, which was capitalism. Nothing was forced.
I will give you Africa though, trying to Westernize after literally inventing nothing for thousands of years is jarring.
But if communism is naturally emergent as you say, why did China go back from communism to state capitalism? Why did Russia?
My point here is that there is evidence of capitalism emerging naturally, none of communism.
You're gonna go away after a month tops, reddit.
>Jews are greedy bankers
>Capitalism is good
pick one Sup Forums
Government adjusted with the economy, same as the USSR mate. Only difference is one happened peacefully, the other didn't.
There's a reason we're NatSoc.
cartels exist to keep the prices of oil higher, not lower you fucking retard :D the communists failed DESPITE the high prices...oh lord
Are you actually saying the French revolution happened peacefully? Fucking leave leaf.
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Communism requires enforcement to operate, therefore it is a losing formula every time.
Socialism requires perpetual growth to sustain itself, which is both unrealistic and does not reflect market cycles.
I have debunked both your insane political ideology and your soft sell economic platform.
/thread.
Getrekt.
>When exactly do you think capitalism was forced on England?
1649
marxists.org
The peasants were kicked off the land. Go look up the Diggers, proto-socialists and Christians who were crushed for trying to hold the land in common.
>The Americas and Australia adopted the economic model of their founders, which was capitalism. Nothing was forced.
The natives didn't practice anything remotely similar to capitalism. Hence why they were slaughtered and cleared to pave the way for capitalism. Capitalism constantly demands new markets regardless of human suffering.
>But if communism is naturally emergent as you say, why did China go back from communism to state capitalism? Why did Russia?
Revisionism among the leadership and the lingering presence of the bourgeoisie. The capitalists do not immediately vanish just because a communist party takes power. Class struggle continues.
You keep trying to shift away from my example, which was THE FIRST capitalist system.
It's entirely possible for capitalism to be implemented through violence, but the difference between that and communism is that one can ONLY happen bloodily.
Calling me a leaf, nigger I'm more Dutch than you are.
The real question is this: what would make neo-communists stop beleieving communism works? What series of events would need to precipitate to make commies stop and reconsider their nonsensical ideology?
Capitalism has removed more people from poverty, brought about greater scientific advancement, and maintained peace between nations than communism could ever hope to.
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No war but class war
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Because this place is made of young sheltered white bois who have no clue how cold unis there outside and enjoy dismissing people based on their ethnicity despite rarely interacting with said people?
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You mean the Glorious Revolution?
If you're trying to argue that, you would be better off citing the initial Magna Carta as the start of capitalism. Nothing about the Glorious Revolution was capitalism in nature, democratic if anything at all.
Also, try not to source such obviously biased bullshit like that.
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any fool who espouses commie drivel in this day and age deserves any grief they get.
>you are acting as a 5th column for a KGB that doesn't even exist anymore
FUCK OFF, RED SCUM!
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reminder that hitler self-cucked in a bunker
Starts these threads every hour on the hour
Gets owned in these threads every fucking time
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Soviet Russia enjoyed peace and maintained it's engulfed countries under strict but peaceful rule. On the other hand America in capitalism has been constantly at war since its inception 200 years ago in order to keep it's capitalistic Wall Street bankers and pétrodollars afloat.
>system in place for 500 odd years has done more than a system that has been in place for not even a century.
Geez, I wonder how.
And you make people stop believing in their ideals the same way you destroy anyone's ideals. You make them go through the failure themselves, over and over.
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Stop replying to reddit raid threads without saging
Sup Forums is a natsoc board fuck off commies
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He also admitted in his bunkrt that the Soviets are the stronger people and that Germans don't deserve to live.
Endless class struggle=endless reasons for the "communist" government to purge the undesirables
Man I'm glad leftists are all afraid of guns nowadays.
And before you get all "sure well I would shoot capitalist pigs to install communism" I have to ask: have you ever shot a gun or even held a gun in your life? Do you like to camp out? How do you intend on enacting your desires when basically everyone thinks your system is a sad joke?
>thinks spamming off topic pastas is "owning"
Go back to Sup Forums we are having an adult conversation here.
>Nothing about the Glorious Revolution was capitalism in nature
No, the English Revolution and the subsequent Civil War. The bourgeois parliamentarians established a republic, with monarchy later stripped of all powers. The old feudal state was smashed for good, capitalism and private property became entrenched. Yet there were groups such as the Levellers and Diggers who opposed this system, right from the start.
>Communism is stateless
Only once it reaches post-scarcity, which will quite literally NEVER happen. In the interim (which will last until we reach a post scarcity economy, ie, will last forever), an authoritarian government is needed to forcibly redistribute and jail and murder dissidents/capitalists.
It is the paramountly idiotic ideology in world history. No ideology alone has proven so disastrous as Communism, and few come close to it for its disconnectedness from how the world actually works.
>Luxembourg
Fuck you. Go peddle your shit in China/South Africa/any of the countries that are socialist or commie already, stop trying to destroy all the NICE places to live.
Pic related. Communism/hegelianism in a nutshell.
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>Man I'm glad leftists are all afraid of guns nowadays.
You wish. Loads of leftists are arming themselves in the wake of Trump's win.
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>Capitalism is ok if the capitalists and the workers are the same nationality
>Strikes are banned, unions are banned, but my boss and the worker are the same nationality!
An du kenns aus dem schlemmste Ghetto ?
Spack dei 2-3 Heipien zou dei nach KP wielen
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M8 please tell me you are sageing
>Implying strikes or unions are banned in any first world capitalist country
>Implying public sector unions shouldn't be banned
>Le porky meme
Kek. Deluded commie