Italian constitutional vote

Secondo voi vale la pena votare sì al referendum?
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What do you think about the Italian vote that will change their constitution?
>theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/30/italy-referendum-all-you-need-to-know-about-renzis-crunch-vote

Other urls found in this thread:

constitution-unit.com/2016/10/13/all-you-need-to-know-about-the-italian-constitutional-referendum/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_Otranto
riformacostituzionale.com/la-riforma-costituzionale/
ansa.it/english/news/2016/11/16/were-keeping-eu-flag-but-europe-must-do-its-job-renzi_f43d642c-1533-408e-a8da-eccf2d0dafa9.html
cnn-news.info/italian-prime-minister-matteo-renzi-turns-his-back-on-europe/
it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delitto_d'onore#Italia
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Is Snookie being voted to be Italian president for life?

>Secondo voi vale la pena votare sì al referendum?
No, unless you want your country to turn into africa

I vote No because I want to weaken or destabilize the leftist gov, hoping and praying the right parties will form a functioning coalition by the time elections come. If you convince me voting yes will achieve that then I'll vote yes.

I don't like the constitution either way.

Under the current system, which was created under Italy’s 1948 constitution, there are two chambers of parliament with directly elected lawmakers, the Chamber of Deputies and the Senate. Both chambers have equal power – it’s known as “perfect bicameralism” – and both must agree on legislation before it is passed. This means, put simply, that it can take a very long time for things to get done. For example, a law to give children born out of wedlock the same rights as children of married couples took nearly 1,300 days to be approved.

She's chilean

Under the proposed reforms, the Senate would lose almost all its power – the number of senators would be reduced from 315 to 100, and the remaining senators would no longer be elected directly. Instead, the 100 would be made up of lawmakers selected by regional assemblies. Some mayors would also serve as senators.

If the yes campaign wins and the reform is passed, it would mean that most laws could be passed, including Italy’s budget, by the Chamber of Deputies without consultating the Senate, arguably making the whole process of passing laws a lot easier. The Senate would only have the power to weigh in on big issues such as other constitutional reforms and the ratification of EU treaties.

Go look how little it took for them to pass a pension system reform.
The whole thing is a load of crap, politicians are quick only when they need to.

BUMP

>theguardian

This. Start a fire under their ass and they will make as many laws as they need to protect themselves or get money.

All you need to know about the Italian constitutional referendum
constitution-unit.com/2016/10/13/all-you-need-to-know-about-the-italian-constitutional-referendum/

Hence, the willingness to avoid future anti-democratic drifts explained the choice of a parliamentary system whereby the two chambers, both directly elected, have equal powers and can oversee one another. As a result, a government needs the backing of both chambers to enter office and must resign if it loses the confidence of one of them. Furthermore, no bill can become law unless it is adopted by both chambers – meaning that it can potentially go back and forth indefinitely.

>the two chambers, both directly elected,
What's the point of having two chambers if bot of them are going to be directly elected, and I assume, are going to be proportional? At least the US Senate still has a purpose despite being directly elected with each state having and equal number of Senators.

Also, I don't see how legislation is so slow if, again assuming, both houses are proportional. Shouldn't it be easier if both houses have a majority in one party? I assume not considering Europe's fascination with multiparty democracy.

>two chambers, have equal powers and can oversee one another
I don't see what's wrong with this. The US Senate is almost the same except that taxation bills have to originate in the House of Representatives, the proportionally representative, directly elected, house.

Sounds better than the Spanish system where the congreso de los diputados has all the power and can veto anything the senado passes

>What's the point of having two chambers if bot of them are going to be directly elected, and I assume, are going to be proportional?
They are slightly different because the senate was elected by people over 25 years old and the chamber of deputies by people over 18

>What's the point of having two chambers if bot of them are going to be directly elected, and I assume, are going to be proportional?
They are not the same thing. You can't vote for Senate if you are younger than 25-y (or was it 23?).

>I don't see how legislation is so slow
It isn't.
I don't remember the paper, but there was an article that proved that we pass as many laws, if not more, as any other country without perfect bicameralism.

She Italian by way of Chille

Ah! I see. I'm partial to the US Senate's structure but I can see the wisdom in having different franchises for each house. I wouldn't mind seeing such a reform in the United States.

She's a gypsy with no ties with us whatsoever

As far as I know the bicameralism was done that way because who made the Constitution (a very large coalition, from commies to monarchist) wanted to avoid another Mussolini.
It made sense and I think it still makes sense.
The only issue are the politicians themselves, who are slow when they don't feel the need to pass a law quickly. But that can't and won't change with the reform (the Senate can still block the laws if it wants to).
Also Senate, being nominated by regional councils, would just be a tool of the leading party.

Are separate ballots given to different people depending on age, with there being an exclusive Italian Senate ballots and a general ballot containing the rest of the offices to be elected and any referendums or initiatives?

In the United States, our ballots (paper or electronic) contain every office being elected, whether it be federal (national), state, or local. Even our referendums and initiatives are on the same ballot.

here our cuck newspapers had referendum propaganda about voting SI.
What is this referendum for exactly?

>Secondo voi vale la pena votare sì al referendum?

It always does, even when you think it's useless.
The least we can do is reduce the No's lead.

When you go vote, they only give you the ballot that's appropriate for the election that is being held in that particular moment.

You may get both the camera dei deputati ballot and the mayor or regional ballot for example.

Yes, there are separate ballots for everything, if you're 25 years old or higher you get the senate ballot too, if there is a referendum you get that too but they're pretty uncommon, i know in america you vote for a lot of things like judges etc

Interesting. Thank you for the answers.

So what will the amendment do? Abolish the equal representation for proportionate representation from votes?

I'm confused

>What is this referendum for exactly?
The current leading party (PD) and few people from the right made huge changes about the constitution.
They want to change Senate, it won't be elected by the people but by regional councils, it will have fewer members and the PD says it will represent the regions.
That is the biggest and most polarizing change in the constitution. Some of the pro-NO see this as the government seizing more power (the Senate will be a tool in the hands of the leading party, most of the corruption is on regional level and Senators have immunity from prosecution). Other pro-NO wanted the Senate COMPLETELY gone and see this as useless.

The other big issue is Renzi, leader of the PD and Prime Minister, trying to personalizing the referendum when he was still popular. He said he would quit if NO won, and at the time SÌ was going very strong. Now that the economy is still weak and we are in the middle of the migrant crisis (with the government doing nothing about it) his numbers are going down and lots of people see this as an opportunity to kick him out of office.

Also issues about the regions and the way the centralized government deals with their autonomy.

>creating that small government for more profits and destruction of Italy(Europe)
Trying to be USA as much as possible. In the meanwhile you have illegally constructed mosques all over Italy and nobody cares.

thanks bro

>Abolish the equal representation for proportionate representation from votes?
Yes

Someone give me the redpill and bluepill for this

redpill: voting no
bluepill: voting yes

Is this a good thing? How does Italy tend to vote? I can see it massively backfiring for the right if libcucks and commies get voted in

cool so redpill me on it

sounds like No is just keeping it as usual

why is Yes a bluepill

>redpill: voting no

>literally every fucking normie I know is voting no because "durr fuck da renzi"
>redpilled

Because it gives the current leftist government more power and most likely M5S more power in one or two years when they win the elections and they are retarded leftists too

No offense SPQR-bros but your country has near Africa-tier governments

So why is voting to change it a bluepill?

>How does Italy tend to vote?
We are very split. There are some commie regions, but overall the vote is very fluid and opinion changes very quickly.
Years ago Berlusconi (middle-right) was extremely popular, now he is a nobody. Renzi was very popular too at the beginning, now he is hated by 3/4 of the country.
The most popular party right now seems to be M5S, which is populist, but neither left or right-wing. Most of the pundits praise it because it stopped the far-right from rising unlike in USA and Europe.

>I can see it massively backfiring for the right if libcucks and commies get voted in
Don't apply USA politics to Italy. Your Democratic Party would be called right-middle here.

will you guys elect that funny guy comedian?

>the number of senators would be reduced from 315 to 100, and the remaining senators would no longer be elected directly. Instead, the 100 would be made up of lawmakers selected by regional assemblies. Some mayors would also serve as senators.
I don't know about you, but this pretty much tells me you will have no power as a voter, where before you had little more power, unless these is some super trick i don't know about.

What's cuck it Italian?

I hope not because his party is a joke but they are leading in the polls... still they are at 30% so they can't do anything by themselves if we go back to a proportional system for the elections which is the plan right now

Who, Grillo?
He is not running for office, he is just the "garante" of the movement.

That's exactly my point.
Our governments last less than 2 years on average because the government has no fucking power at all, always having to compromise left and right to try and do anything.

>"""""redpilled""""" polacks are fine with this

In a democracy eventually someone has to fucking win and rule.
In Italy nobody ever wins.

Vota no per BTFOare Renzi.

Who will make SPQR great again then?

right so what if it's more powerful for the leftists in the short-term

obviously right wing politics is on the rise in the West, it might spread to Italia and make it great again with the changed rules

Or is this really unlikely?

Sadly nobody. There is literally nobody I would vote for right now.

Voted no; feels very good doing my part to save my country even if I'm here in oz
However I fail to see why we can't structure parliament like Australia; lower house of single member electorates elected by preferential voting and a senate where each state has the same number of senators (no matter how big or small) elected via proportional representation. It works well here

No one, most of them are cucks, the others are too dumb

I see, well if the (((media))) likes M5S then you know it is probably bad for you.

Good luck on the vote spaghetti bro

>you elect the regional government
>you elect the mayor of the biggest city (if you live in it obv)

>the regional government that you elected decides who should represent it in the senate
>the mayor you elected also becomes senator

In the end you're still electing them, it's just on a regional level. Think of it as a poor man's electoral college.

"cornuto"

is there an equivalent to cuck in Italian?

haha thanks :)

Funny thing about leftists, they have big government and this new government will reduce government. Might be good if you have a good leader, unless if you get some Catholicuck expect even more migrants. Not that you picked Mario Monti or any of those other Goldmam' Sucks people. More capitalists talk about democracy, less you have of it, more they blame Communism for something, more they become like that. Why not solve important problems like migrants?

Cornuto like the other guy said but it's not the same thing, we don't have a word for someone who enjoys being cheated on

>and a senate where each state has the same number of senators (no matter how big or small) elected via proportional representation. It works well here
>most of the corruption is on regional level and Senators have immunity from prosecution

>Cornuto like the other guy said but it's not the same thing
care to elaborate? I'm interested in linguistics and such.

Cornu is horn in Latin

It's not about who you elect, it's about if the elected follows people's will AND if you have the power to get rid of elected one as quality as possible when he screws up. Mayor or no mayor, what's matters is if he gets instructions from people or from international elite.

Gonna vote No, I won't let it pass so that those eurocrats can fuck us more than they're doing now, and since they want Yes, I'm gonna mark a fucking huge X on the fucking opposite square

>Or is this really unlikely?

As of right now we aren't having too many problems with migrants, it's the same old deal as always. They're just an annoying drain on our budget.

If things start to go sweden tier I guarantee you a Lega Nord landslide in a single election cycle.

Cornuto = your wife cheats on you

Cuck implies that you know and you're cool with it, cornuto does not.

Yes that's the root, it means "someone who has a horn" which is why this gesture is used

>As of right now we aren't having too many problems with migrants
It's because you don't have a social net like Germany and other nations, right?

You let them pass right on through?

Doesn't work like that here.
We change government almost every two years. There is no risk of right-wing rising because we always had right-wing politicians very active.
Lega Nor has big support in the Nord and there was a time when they wanted secession from the South.
They have always been vocal about migrants, be it from the East or from Africa. Hell we even sunk a boat full of Albanians
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_Otranto

And yet Lega Nord could never govern alone.

“perfect bicameralism” ensures the absence of oligarchy (or it should by the by) but the formation of political parties wich at this time have a major weight in said parliament we would have it reduced so that only the major parties have any real power wich would include pro-ILLEGAL immigrant legislations and pseudo oligarchy wich are the 2 of the main reasons to vote NO plus the fact that the current major political party still supports the founding of banks over public administrations and services is a fucking red erring

>Cornuto = your wife cheats on you
I'm curious to why "horn" is related to it

Cuck comes from cuckhold which derives from the cuckoo bird. The bird lays eggs in other species nests and the other birds raise the cuckoo young instead of their own (cucked).

>Not that you picked Mario Monti or any of those other Goldmam' Sucks people.

In Italy the prime minister is not elected by the people. It never was.

Article 92.

oh really? That's so interesting :) thank you

So what is the actual question that's being asked in the referendum?

I want that Lega Nord or Fratelli d'Italia come to power in Italy.

Someone can send me a link where everything is explained
Can be in Italian, I don't mind

>Do you like all the changes Matteo made to the constitution? [Y/N]

>Approvate il testo della legge costituzionale concernente "disposizioni per il superamento del bicameralismo paritario, la riduzione del numero dei parlamentari, il contenimento dei costi di funzionamento delle istituzioni, la soppressione del CNEL e la revisione del Titolo V della parte II della Costituzione", approvato dal Parlamento e pubblicato nella Gazzetta Ufficiale n. 88 del 15 aprile 2016?

Use google translate, I'm too lazy.
There have been protests about the text too. According to some people it "boats" the voters and make the SÌ more attractive.

>we don't have a word for someone who enjoys being cheated on
typical leave it to the Northern Europeans to invent something like that.

Yes, but it matters if internationalist pick them or nationalists.

Here you go.

riformacostituzionale.com/la-riforma-costituzionale/

I know you wanted to know why a horn is used to describe it but i don't actually know, i tried looking on wikipedia and it doesn't mention it
Tried googling it and there are a lot of theories, ranging from "it's from female goats changing partners frequently" to just being a symbol of virility

The question is rather: will Matteo be the guy who be strong enough and willing to get rid of migrant plague?

Italy needs a new Mussolini. Democratic liberalism is a farce and a snare.

No. Absolutely not.

Forgot to say: you can hate Renzi, but he is a genius when it comes to communication and debate.
He would mop the floor with Trump, Hillary or any other politician we are seeing in Europe right now.

His latest stunt with the European flag was genius
ansa.it/english/news/2016/11/16/were-keeping-eu-flag-but-europe-must-do-its-job-renzi_f43d642c-1533-408e-a8da-eccf2d0dafa9.html
cnn-news.info/italian-prime-minister-matteo-renzi-turns-his-back-on-europe/

And now he has Juncker saying Europe will pay all the damages of the Earthquake and Schaeuble endorsing the SÌ.

>The people elect the parliament
>The parliament elects a president
>The president nominates a prime minister
>The prime minister chooses all the other ministers
>The government-elect (for lack of a better term) asks for "the trust" of the parliament
>The parliament may or may not grant it, in which case there's a sort of deadlock where the wannabe government has to negotiate for the trust.

This is how the government is formed in a nutshell.

>typical leave it to the Northern Europeans to invent something like that.
We had delitto d'onore

it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delitto_d'onore#Italia

A genius dude, it's not just a way to gain votes dude, it was all on purpose dude

>and Schaeuble endorsing the SÌ
Having one of the most hated persons on the continent endorse you is hardly a genius move

Is there even such a guy in Italian politics?

Thanks for helping. Still really interesting.

I will one day visit your country and spend lots of money. Mostly trying to find ruins.

>Italy needs a new Mussolini.
Fuck off, the last thing we need is a megalomaniac who would trash our country even more.

>Having one of the most hated persons on the continent endorse you is hardly a genius move
It means Europe is fully backing him and he is the only one who will cooperate with them. They know it and they don't want him fail.
Even if NO wins he still has a career thanks to them.

tl;dr: A man who caught his wife cheating on him was justified in killing her and/or the other guy while in a sate of utter rage, because the cheating was considered "an extreme insult and provocation".

The "state of utter rage" was pretty much always implied by the prosecution and didn't need proving.

>It means Europe is fully backing him and he is the only one who will cooperate with them
That's why it's such a bad idea at a time when the EU is so disliked

Giorgia Meloni from Fratelli D'Italia and Matteo Salvini from Lega Nord.

But it is probably all just talk, they won't stop any boat. To stop the boats we would need a new Qaddafi and a new Berlusconi.

We don't have strong right wing parties, nobody talks about how to get rid of immigrants, although Lega Nord, which is against immigration, it's really vocal about this issue
Thing is, they will never get enough votes

Great and simple, but that's all unimportant for a voter. What matters for a voter is only:
>the elected follows instructions of voters
Democracy isn't democracy, we ran our own pensions, insurance, road planning, parks..etc. management during Socialism. Now it's all decided by some people like mayors who do whatever they want or their friends want.

kek thanks for the help. I see it got overturned in the 80s

>Fuck off, the last thing we need is a megalomaniac who would trash our country even more.

His only mistake was joining Hitler. If he was neutral, he'd ended up as Franco. Today, he'd be the perfect leader for Italy. He wouldn't turn Italy into EU's servant and a rapefugee dumbster like Renzi and others cornutos.

>Giorgia Meloni
Another woman of European "nationalism". I do wonder how it would look like if a woman would actually had the "balls" to deport migrants.

>Another woman of European "nationalism".
She's actually the nationalist between her and Salvini... also has some anti islam in her program, i actually quite like her, too bad she polls at like 4%