So what's so great about Anarcho-Capitalism

I've always believed in a limited government but the AnCap ideology is interesting. Can anyone tell me the pros and cons to this way of thinking

Other urls found in this thread:

mises.org/blog/private-policing-isnt-fantasy
mises.org/blog/privatize-police
mises.org/library/books
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Too pure an ideology for me, I'm a minarchist.

So what exactly is a minarchist? I did a quick google search and it sounds like a republican to me

It's just taking libertarian principles (property rights + NAP) and consistently applying it to everything.

Bare minimum government: Police, army, some administration. You can tack on a few more depending on your preference such as fire services, postal, roads, etc.

Pro:
>"Do X and get X amount of money for it."
Con:
>X can be a hitman job.

Couldn't the bare minimums be covered by private businesses without the need of a government?

Couldn't that lead to moral problems within the society?

But that's all fair play in an AnCap society? The strong survive while the weak perish?

Pro: old technologies wouldn't be as institutionally protected, so you might see a faster rate of progress.

Well, if that is what you view as a "free" society then you can see what's wrong with it.

Utilitarianism does not matter for us ancaps, we don't care about stupid "pros and cons".
The only thing that matters for us is the moral point of view.

The state, big or small, needs taxes to exist, and taxation is essentially and unarguably theft. So for the state to exist, a group of people will claim authority on a certain territory that does not really belong to them, and will force everyone living within that territory to give them money, under the threat of violence and punishment.
This is, from a logical and objective point of view: Slavery, theft and coercion. These are the pillars that build and sustain the state. Which leads us to the fact that the state is a violent, oppressive and immoral institution by it's very nature since it cannot exist without violence and theft, thus, it should be completely abolished, period.

This is the main point of anarcho-capitalism agains the existence of the state. The fact that it is unjustifiable from a moral point of view. Utilitarianisms and "if's" do not matter.

Not really. Just learn what the NAP is.

Assassination markets are just a thought experiment that some ancaps came up with... basically, only horrible transgressors of the NAP who could defy and escape conventional legal action would go on the kill list. ie. literal Hitlers

What prevents older technology from being protected? The fact that there is always constant demand for better technology from consumers who will get the better deal?

So it's about it being a moral issue

give an example?

libertarianism is a philosophy of ethics at its core.

In an anarcho-capitalist world, there wouldn't be a government to enforce regulations protecting incumbent businesses, technologies, processes etc. A trivial example would be Uber vs. the taxi cartels.

So basically, AnCaps think that we don't need to be taxed because it's theft, undoubtedly. So we in a way should leave power to the people and have a free market and do what we see fit, regardless on the moral POV?

So this would be the worst case scenario? We would kill those try and escape justice. Sort of like how we have the death penalty here in the US

Pretty much this is morally wrong from my point of view but that's because I don't really agree with unjustifiable murder

the morals come along with functioning in the free market.

Morals wouldnt just disappear because the government disappears. If you want to live, function, and trade in a free market you need people to actually want to trade with you. When you're an axe murderer or some shit I imagine there would be very few communities who'd want you involved with them. Essentially any delinquents would end up ostracized from all of the best communities and left to fend for themselves innawoods or in some shanty town full of other psychos. Sounds kinda cool desu

That's not kosher with ancap. You don't believe the meme macros literally do you??

This example actually makes a lot of sense. But couldn't the people who own Uber technically be considered the government if the only way to drive around would be through Uber, since Uber drivers have to pay Uber some of their money from fares? Kind of like taxation

It's not like taxation because it's a voluntary interaction.

Uber provides the tools neccessary for these people to get costumers and they get a kickback for that service. It's not like Uber is just stealing from them like governments do.

>Pros
+ freedom
+ economic efficiency
+ better quality of life for all

>Cons
Wait.....
OH FUCK! user you forgot to solve the Jewish Problem firs-
>*air raid siren activates*
>Armored (((Goldman Sachs™))) trucks roll out of every bank, jack-booted mercenaries begin to pile out with automatic rifles and serve eviction notices to everyone on the block.

>you have now entered: post-modern feudalism
> " bad goys will be gassed on sight, remember the 6 trillion "

Sounds like AnCaps are trying to build a utopia. It's just hard to think that something like this could work in the type of world we live in today

seriously... just learn what the NAP is.

It's a very clear delineation of when the use of force/violence is allowed... basically only self-defense.

Ancap + Kantian ethics is pure utopia. Neither will ever work. They're both logically sound, but we're irrational creatures.

I honestly don't know much about what AnCaps truly believe. My friend just recently told me about the Anarcho-Capitalism after I told him I voted for Trump because I grew up with an incredibly Republican grandfather that told me to act and think a certain way without giving it much thought. But I'm interested and want to learn more about the AnCap way of thinking

>people living peacefully while not being slaves is an utopia

The indoctrinated mind of an statist is both terrifying and hilarious.

I won't lie it wont work with the current population. The only way I see Ancap working is with a very high IQ population.

Then read Rothbard, Hans-Hermann Hoppe and other important ancap philosophers, don't ask random strangers on the internet, particularly not on this fucking board full of trolls, shills and retards.

Ok, I did a little reading about NAP before posting this thread, but I didn't know what NAP stood for until I searched it. So it's about self defense, which is something we practice even now, like stand your guard

I simply haven't heard a convincing argument for why we should trust businesses or voluntary forces to run the army or police.

That's exactly what I'm thinking. We'd have to live in a world where we all think alike. And that type of thinking would work with any form of government or in this case, no government

Exactly. And there will always be immoral "citizens".

because it's more efficient retard

You'll get better forms of both with proper incentives.

And I doubt any country has a large population of people with high IQs

I got a pretty good conversation and learned a little from this thread. But I'll definitely read up more on the people you just said

Jews are pretty close

Nothing, it's Marxist-tier retardation

Anarcho capitalism is like anarchism, but the people believe in markets.. So it's like anarchy and order through economic systems, controlled by and for the economy, kind of like what we have now, except without the government protection. In theory, it could be a good precursor to anarcho monarchism.

I can see why that's a good argument for a free market with no government. The government in the United States made me lose faith in the choices our politicians make

In the broadest sense, one could view our world as already being an AnCap economy, governments are just companies in the business of ruling, first and foremost, and externality management second.

Ultimately this is why AnCap is an ideology/philosophy more so than a system you can just straight up implement. People have to have the correct mindset to allow a voluntaryist AnCap world to exist.

That being said, it's a very redundant mindset, once you set it in motion it is very hard to counter as it ultimately appeals to the base human instinct of selfishness and works with it rather than fighting against it. If a bunch of people are altruist in an AnCap world then that is perfectly fine as it is their voluntary choice to be so, but the world still allows those who are not so altruist to exist and benefit humanity. Mindsets like that of Marxism/Communism as we know it rely on complete altruism, which human instincts tend to go against, not to mention one person going bad in this system can easily cause more to join in, causing the system to eventually collapse without constant checks in place, which is just inefficient.

I do not believe we can live in a fully voluntaryist AnCap world but I believe we should start approaching it as much as we reasonably can as it is naturally more efficient than the alternative. In the process of doing so, people's mindsets will also begin to naturally accept and shift towards voluntaryist thinking, thus causing a runaway train effect towards this world.

Yeah, i agree.
Why would we think a private company, with it's name on the stake and professionals that really need to perform well to not lose their jobs, would do a better job at protecting us than the state?

I mean, the state is a monopoly and as we know, monopolies are really good at providing services in the most efficient way possible.

And of course let's not forget the people can't protect themselves in most countries anyway because ...well, they are unarmed... and aren't allowed to own weapons by... the state, who will certainly keep them safe and protected... without ever using it's force to oppress and massacre them.
I don't even know why private stuff exists, everything should be owned by the state, politicians and bureaucrats are ANGELS guided by god himself to better organize our resources and decide what's best for us.

Pretty sure they'd fuck over themselves within a decade

You see what i mean when i saw you shouldn't ask the retards on this board OP?

>cons
Seems impossible to accomplish
Let's say
>California secedes
>silicon valley oligarchs win the power struggle
>all land is private
>this means huge land lords (possibly corporations) own entire cities/towns
>they run it like they would run an apartment building
>you pay rent (like taxes) and they pay for services like sewage and streets and side walks and shit
>shit kinda works because the owners have the incentive to have the town pretty and functional so other tenants come live there and pay more rent
>you could discriminate freely because no civil rights act
>nigger (and Mexicans, if you like) free cities
>rent probly pretty high tho
>it's California so used to it
>go on with life
except
>what stops the us military from claiming you're an oppressing people and attacks you?
>what's stopping Mexicans from doing the same and attacking small towns on it's border?
>can a 1000 family suburb pay for a private army to defend themselves?

What if all the private land owners band togheter and join resources to maintain a standing force for security
>mfw they have to pay for it somehow
>mfw they instill an obligatory fee on rent for security
>mfw a federal tax is born

Pros
>you can discriminate

>In the broadest sense, one could view our world as already being an AnCap economy, governments are just companies in the business of ruling, first and foremost, and externality management second.

I don't think i've EVER read anything more stupid in my 24 years of life. I think my IQ actually dropped a few points now.

Go read the authors i told you OP, leave now.

It's like a zombie apocalypse or living in a medieval society, everyone loves to fantasize about the opportunities they will have and how free they will be, fucking broads all day and such, but the vast majority of people will end up eaten/full of literal shit/unwashed/hungry/diseased/fucked in general.

Ancap is just another flavour of libertarianism (the most radical one).

So learn about libertarianism first.

There's no shortcut or redpill for this. You have to do a lot of reading/listening/watching of a decent amount of political philosophy and economics to understand how we arrived at our positions.

So we would shift into this way of thinking because it is nature for us humans to be selfish and want to do better than the other? Thus, with more competition, there are lower priced goods and services while having great products. And I absolutely hate communism. I never understood why people think we are all the same and deserve things we don't pay for. It's entitlement at its finest

Does the idoicy of your fairytail "ideology" being thrown in your face trigger you?

mises.org/blog/private-policing-isnt-fantasy
mises.org/blog/privatize-police

>Utilitarianism does not matter for MOST ancaps

Fixed that

Yeah this thread will probably go to shit soon. Thanks for the reading material. I'll look more into it later during the day

This. In reality, an ancap society would probably just turn back into what we have now. The paradox of economic libertarianism is that it's all about free choice, but given a free choice and a decent understanding of likely outcomes, people would generally prefer to have a government.
Still better than NatSoc, though.

There's nothing good about it user, fascism is the only way forward.

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Only one and real ideology. We live under anarcho-capitalism people just don't understand this.

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>MONOPOLY
>ANCAP
heh

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>copyright
>ancap
heh

Adding to this.

Just about all AnCaps works are available for free.

mises.org/library/books

Strongly recommend starting with "For a new Liberty"

Those people don't understand that we live in a world of scarce resources that must be most efficiently distributed to the people who most greatly benefit humanity. They claim "wage slavery" when ultimately they would have to work anyways to provide for themselves at the very least. We are enslaved by life first and foremost but they seem to forget to acknowledge that and instead pin it on the people who voluntarily pay them for the services they voluntarily provide.

>someone stopping you
>ancap
heh

That's an interesting picture you got there. Weird misshapen elf-like girls drawn after the style of Japanese animation, interacting with the gray toys of a beaten military enterprise.

more

>violating the nap
>ancap
heh

>calling someone over
>a violation of the nap
heh

That's all i got

Really, we should just abolish humanity.

That seems like the most morally justified thing to do.

big powerful corporations would be the defacto state anyway but undemocratic

babbies first political ideology

/thread

god damn i love this pic!!!

My friend actually sent me this link earlier today when we were talking about AnCap. I do appreciate it though

Agreed. Life is anarchy. The ultimate slave driver is the laws of physics, not the government.

Technological progress has done more for people in a few hundred years than all the political theory in the world did in thousands.

Yeh, the meme where an ancap society begins and freedom naturally turns into a government so you have to restart is pretty true. Representation, common rules and such are a natural order.

Ancap is just the same aspiration as communism but in the opposite way.

Communism seeks utopia through collectivism, ancap seeks utopia through individualism. One argues that the by being tightly bound to each other we will all provide everything and society can focus on arts, sports, the pursuit of knowledge. Ancap is the same thing, except it's about being freed from the government.

Communism requires a perfect government composed of perfect, altruistic people.

Ancap requires a perfect society composed of perfect people.

Communism fails because people are animals driven by instincts, so focusing power in a group of people drives them towards a logical course of action, even if one or two of them defy that course.

Ancap would fail because given freedom, people would once again take a predictable, logical course of action and at best just reinstituted government.

When we invent AI, we can consider them, until then it's like promoting spreading your arms to fly - we were not built for that and we cannot.

how are they getting power?
>babbys first indefensible statist position incoming

Life is just a prison and those who think differently are delusional.

No one was given a choice to live, we were forced into this world that we now have to work for in order to keep living. We sympathize with our captors and claim life is giving us so much in return. It's textbook stockholm syndrome.

You could still have "semi" laws
>own big plot of land
>make housing project
>rent it
>have rules on your property
>no loud partying over 12am
>no speeding
>no child abuse

Concede that you couldn't really do nothing except throw them out of your property if they violated the rules, and they just kept changing locations until they established themselves in a region where it would be tolerated

But couldn't you right now move to a Muslim south Pacific region and do it regardless of the government?

It is a very nice pic. Let's make it real, shall we?

>neighbor owns road
>charges fee
>fee is too high
>no one crosses
>gee I'll keep it high anyway and don't get any tolls
>3 other neighbors
>one also has a road
>no fee because he has agreement with the local Walmart to let people go through for shopping

Spoken like people who have no idea what violence is.

Violence? Who said anything about violence?

Because of reality, anarchy doesn't work

Let me explain

>class systems are natural humans are hierarchical
>aka people who are alike culturally, economically, racially, etc. will form coexisting communities
>will want to prioritize their own interests and keep them going across generations separate from others

So already we have basic factions developing.

>People of power and affluence naturally form aristocratic families
>take the form of country clubs, Mason Lodges, college secret societies, and fraternities
>people in these groups usually have standards for their families and who marries into it

Now we have complex factions within factions, and aristocracy

Ergo, in an Ancap world, you have pure unbounded aristocracy.

There is no such thing as anarchy. It's just aristocracy.

The belief is that an Ancap society would trend towards itself, that individualism causes more individualism to follow by what we know of human nature.

Granted given the scenario of a suddenly disappearing government people would just reinstitute it, but that has more to do with people's stubbornness for what they perceive as normal than anything "predictable and logical".

Given a natural progression, Ancap is a runaway train effect towards itself. It does not require a society of perfect people, just a sufficient enough population to believe that they should not be ruled. Once this arbitrary critical point is reached, it becomes very difficult to backtrack as the people who think otherwise would have to have more resources than that population to fight against, which usually takes more resources to do as per attacker vs defender theory.

No courts?

No sanitation?

Why not? Just murder literally anyone else trying to make caskets. After all, no rules and no government to enforce it right?

That's what retards don't get about anarchy shit. With literally no punishment for stealing, murder, and rape they will fucking skyrocket. It already happens fucking plenty even with people being jailed and killed for it

>implying courts can't be private

>implying private sanitation doesn't already exist
>what are septic tanks

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bump for my post

Ancaps are retards and only see things at face value (supply and demand)