/left/ general – Little red book Edition

Greetings Comrades,

This thread is for the discussion of any and all left-wing political ideology, including, but not limited to, Marxism/Socialism/Communism/Anarchism/Syndicalism/etc.

>Socialism is an economic and social system defined by social ownership of the means of production. (Workers democratically own and operate the places in which they work, as opposed to private power aka capitalism)

>The means of production are non-human inputs the create economic value, such as factories, workplaces, industrial machinery, etc. Socialists refer to the means of production as capital, or private property. Private property in the socialist context shouldn't be confused with personal property, such as your home, car, computer, and other possessions.

>In a capitalist society the means of production are owned and controlled privately, by those that can afford them (the capitalist aka those with capital). Production is carried out to benefit the capitalist (production for profit). Workers are paid a wage, and receive that amount regardless of how much value they produce.

>Communism is the highest developed stage of socialism wherein there is no state, no money, no class system. The means of production are owned by all and provide for everyone's needs.

Resources:

ABC's of Socialism: s3.jacobinmag.com/issues/jacobin-abcs.pdf

Introduction to Marxism by Professor Richard D. Wolff: youtube.com/watch?v=T9Whccunka4

Selections of Left-wing Literature:

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/sw/

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/sw/

marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/decades-index.htm

marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/mar/11.htm

Although i know its basically impossible, lets keep the shitposting to a minimum this time.

Other urls found in this thread:

thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2016/10/23/basic-income-too-basic-not-radical-enough/
youtube.com/watch?v=lSlUW5Imylc
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

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If you bump this thread your mother will die in her sleep tonight

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Mfw immunity pupper

The Struggle Continues!

/what we reading/ here? Currently reading Empire by Negri and Hardt. Pretty fascinating imo.

go back to leftypol

What's leftypol? Also, go back to stormfront.

What's your solution to the migrant crisis?

>WakeUpWhiteMan

lol

Does pol really want to be like this?

Why, what's yours?

Do you commie faggots actually think that this shit hasn't been tried before? Sup Forums will always be a predominantly Libertarian/National Socialist board, no matter how many gay little leftist generals you fart out.

And you'll always be a cuck :)

UN-maintained refugee camps around the area of refuge.

That reply really cogitated my cranium.

I don't argue with retards, sorry.

In short: A very well structured and rigid approach that benefits both migrants and the state.

If a migrant arrives with no use to the state or the people, they will be made to join collectivist work programs to pay off their debt to the host nation. They will be given accommodation, food, a small wage and education to allow them to integrate into society. Accommodation and food will be highly cost efficient, for this, migrants will need to pay off their debt to society by choosing to work in one of many fields that is deemed 'beneficial' to the state (such as industrial work, agriculture, manual labour) depending on their physical characteristics. Once this debt is worked off, they can apply for permanent residency if they pass an exam showing that they have integrated into society.

Two strike policy (if the crimes are not severe), everyone makes a mistake in their life and should be given a (single) chance to make up for their actions before they are harshly punished. This applies 10 years after permanent residency has been achieved also.

That's what Id implement, but the logistics would need to be worked out.

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>If I call my enemies retards, I win

China has furthest developed Marxism-Leninism in use today, and also one that has survived ideological battles for 50 years and made the country prosper without either dogmatism or revisionism. Read Qiushi. I don't get it why anyone would promote any other form of socialism than marxism-leninism-maoism. Just doesn't make any sense. What else has ever given +10%/year economical growth and eradicated absolute poverty as rapidly?

But you are a retard.

Send them all to gulags and collective farms and they can be useful for once in their lives.

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OP can me and my half breed kids crash on your couch indefinitly? We will also need food and entertainment. Can I fuck our wife?

FAILS 100% OF THE TIME
TOP KEK

To be fair, everybody uses the namecalling and shitposting tactic.

I'd prefer to have logical and structured discussion really, but i understand this is pol, just comes with the territory.

Chinas economic growth is due to market deregulation. They are not communist anymore.

My guns are for freedom, against faggots like you that will be killed once your leader is done with you like every other communist shit hole. Go back to infinity.

If you're outnumbered then you're outnumbered.

EMBRACE JEWISH BOLSHEVISM GOY
OPEN YOUR BORDERS

>projecting this much

Aren't you commie subhumans constantly accusing regular Sup Forumsacks of never having any arguments? Now here I am in one of your gay-ass little threads getting called a "retard" and nothing else. Smdh

Good idea.

>but the logistics would need to be worked out.
You think? Your solution is unreasonable for anything than a meager number of migrants.

Would I be safe to assume to you guys have no consensus on the issue?

Amazing image user

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End capitalism → No more poor countries → No more refuges

What's yours? Oops, I forgot: it doesn't matter, your opinion isn't taken into consideration in capitalism anyway. Wanna join us and get rid of it?

What do lefties think of Basic Income? What does Sup Forums think of Basic Income for that matter?

Here's my hat comrades

End capitalism→ Everyone country is equally poor→ No more refugees.

>What do lefties think of Basic Income?
A distraction from actual struggle.

>End capitalism
I'm not interested in your pipe dreams, I'm curious about how you people want to deal with immediate problems and so far it seems that you have nothing tangible to offer.

No.

Not well liked. I'm not in a position to understand it completely, but there's a good explanation of UBI here:

thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2016/10/23/basic-income-too-basic-not-radical-enough/

le epic so ebin dae le epin win xD pwn’d ftw le bacon narwhale xP
tfw no gf xD ayy lmao! :p
upboated good sir i tip my fedora to you, fine gentlemen le real men have class xD real human bean!!1 dae cake is a lie lel epic fail!!!!!!!! ;p for YOU!! :DDD XD we r anonymous >:D lol DOGE111 so ebin much le1, for the lulz!! xD le upvote for you :) just epic, simply epin!

>China says it's socialist and is ruled by communist party and its official ideological research unit is tasked with further research of marxism-leninism-maoism
>t-they are not socialist

去死

Fucking Communist think the Muslims are going to play nice, it's convert or die shit heads. You lose every fucking time.

Immediate problems require solutions that differ per country, and since probably neither he nor I am well-versed with Polish problems we're hardly in a position to discuss those.

If you want to talk about solutions to Dutch problems though, sure.

You sound very angry.

"We people" do not have the power to deal with anything in capitalism buddy – and neither do you.

All vermin will die. Just as my parents and grandparents fought against you scum and emerged victorious in a free country, I shall hunt every one of you filthy maggots.

There are some things that you understand regardless of language or culture barrier, and thus I dedicate this song to all you useless carcasses!

Off yourselves.

youtube.com/watch?v=lSlUW5Imylc

The revolution has to be global right? So at this stage are we in the west not essentially just waiting for the rest of tehm to catch up? So without Blairite 'liberal interventionism' are you suggesting we just sit on our hands and wait the 200 years for Africa to develop, all the while the lot for the European worker getting poorer, and European values being eroded by islamification?

Yeah no.

So much this.

>Would I be safe to assume to you guys have no consensus on the issue?

In terms of actual political parties, each has their own solution.
In terms of the left in general, again, each group has their own solution.

I would be interested to know why you think that it could not work for more than a few migrants.

>Australia

Nice try

Fucking traitor to Finland. This is coming from an ex communist

Basic income should be controlled by the market, not by the government. If someone wants to sell its services for less than what the basic income demands he should have a right to do it and if the company's owner thinks that the service of someone is less valuable than the basic income, he should also have a right to hire him for the price he think it's fair.
>b-but muh exploitation
If the businessman offers a price that doesn't reflect on your capabilities as a worker, than you go to the competition and ask for a job there, if the competition also thinks your work is worth less than shit, you go to the next, and to the next, if everyone thinks your work is worth less than shit, than it's time to apply yourself and improve, because you're behind competition.

So you believe that there is zero power for change in the democratic process but also that glorious prole revolution is just days away? Given half of the US didn't even out and vote, do you really expect them to out and revolution?

By saving the white race.

Mao was a monster, why you people constantly glorify someone who had countless traditonalists and farmers executed and destroyed China is beyond me

Finland belongs as a Russian oblast.

You think you could provide billions of migrants with work, shelter, and food?

I think they buy into the exact same pomo rhethoric they try to criticize.

Michael Heinrich: Kritik der politischen Ökonomie
Delightfully compact neomarxist economic theory without any feelgood baggage, but it's too soon to give a review.

meant to

KYS

>Politicians in "democracies" lie all the time.
>Of course, the same goes in authoritarian regimes.
>But not when they claim to be socialists; then they always tell the truth – otherwise it's not fair.
>Marxist theory is irrelevant to define a socialist regime.

I agree, he was a monster, but
>Destroyed China
Ah yes, China, on par with such states as South-Sudan

Daily reminder Venezuela happened in real time, in front of our eyes, ao the current generation would have no doubt as to what really happens when an authoritarian, parasitic ideology like "socialism" takes hold of useful idiots.

Migrant crisis is a multifaceted problem that affects whole Europe and Turkey, furthermore it's a staple topic here on Sup Forums and in European media.

Keep dreaming, buddy.

He was a monster in leu of Stalin, admittedly he was not as bad as Stalin but he is in the same ballpark

And destroying china, I am reffering to 'The Great Leap Forward'

>Basic income should be controlled by the market

All of my what. The UBI is taken off profit as a form of tax by the Government. What you're talking about is a wage system that is just deregulated.

Here, read this, it partially explains things from both points of view:

thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2016/10/23/basic-income-too-basic-not-radical-enough/

Mao Zedong killed double what Stalin did.

Nah dude they've got so much money in circulation they don't need toilet paper.

>are you suggesting we just sit on our hands
I'm suggesting you don't live in a democracy anyway, so you have two options: prepare the revolution or, indeed, sit on your hands.

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45 Million in great leap forward
Ok so if we calculate this out

Mao is worth 7.5 Hitlers

Keep voting, buddy.

So technically he's better than Hitler.

There is not a single fully capitalist system or socialist system in the entire world. Every state is a shade of grey inbetween these two.

>I'm suggesting you don't live in a democracy anyway,
What a silly thing to suggest.

At executing political opponents, yes.
Somalia is fully Capitalist and Cuba is fully Socialist.

Basic income =/= wage. Basic income (UBI) is a 'new' take on welfare. Every citizen 18 and over is given a monthly lump sum by the government. Everyone gets the same, it replaces the old benefit system. The idea being that UBI is enough to cover the essentials (food, shelter power). It is being proposed as a part of the solution to the tide of automation about to unemploy half the world.

As to minimum wage, it could go either way. It could be used as an excuse to scrap minimum wage or it could be that people decide they don't want to work 50 hour weeks doing shitowrk for shitpence, so they may cut back their hours or negotiate a new wage.

Mixed economy.

Look at history. Capitalist "democracy" is a complete mystification.

Compare how many whites there are today to how many ethnic Chinese.

Hitler did way better.

It depends on what how you see it
I calcuated it out based on the 'muh 6 million' basis

So the only people worse than hitler are Stalin, worth 5.6-8.1 Hitlers and Mao as mentioned above is worth 7.5

Surely you can point out errors in current Chinese socialism which is the leading ideology of that great nation that is not in line with marxism-leninism.

Hoax marxists and hoax socialists come and go, both dogmatists (Soviet Union, Venezuela) and revisionists (all social democracies). They always fail. Vietnam is doing fine since they aligned with Chinese socialism back in 80's.

Kill yourself, commie scum.

Who ordered the nuking of Japan? Cus that guy killed like +1 minimum. That's like a 0.1667 Hitler

A policy that only pacifies but doesn't solve the problem

What history?

So Trump's plan, communists can't have ONE original idea

Now if we calcuate expeneture based on how much a single human life is

Oh lets just say its around $9.1 Million
Mao has caused around $409500000000000 worth of damages

There is no one lefty position.

It's not a solution to capitalisms innate contradictions, but it takes off it's cruel edge and makes a dignified existance possible for the poor. It also enables the production of worthwhile goods that are not economically viable to produce. It might be required for capitalism to survive the ever-falling profit rate and even protect society from degenerating into a fascist shithole. Not that bad, really.

You can start by voting for Corbyn, but you probably gonna give shitty reasons why you aren't

Kim Il Sung, Tsar Nicholas II, Trotsky and Pol Pot also probably have higher kill counts than Hitler.

Sure: the four classes alliance for example (I don't remember the exact name they give it).

How about Gengis Khan? Do we have any reasonable estimates for how many people died under him?

And Hideki Tojo and Franco too.

Truman is worth around 0.0376- Hitlers