/Italy general/ the long night before the downfall

So, what shall I vote Tomorrow?
I was a supporter of the "No"...
...then turned for abstention...
Now I'm shilling for the "Yes" vote.

Someone please redpill me before I make a mistake.

Other urls found in this thread:

it.ibtimes.com/evasione-fiscale-italia-e-ue-percentuali-dati-e-numeri-da-incubo-1435808
medium.com/@nntaleb/the-intellectual-yet-idiot-13211e2d0577
youtube.com/watch?v=3h-oNDaUYzg&t=752s
youtu.be/GskyD10QgV0
termometropolitico.it/1237329_referendum-boom-voto-estero-affluenza-40.html
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

wop

Bump

Italy is the best European country. Prove me wrong.

Hint: You can't

thanks leafbro, maybe some of you are allright after all

we are all voting No to say "fuck off" to the EU and its puppets.

The only ones voting yes are piddini cucks and those idiots wo believe the (((media))) and they even go far enough to tell us "you are the ones being manipulated"

Kek wills No to win anyway

veramente fa te pensare...

Please Italy, vote "No", at least then it'll convince fucking parliament we really wanted out of the EU come Monday when the Brexit live happens.

As far as I know, the NO vote equals to a Brexit vote.

So, go for No.

>comparing this vote to Brexit
how comfy is your bubble Sup Forums?

Vote no you fucking cuck and kick those immigrants out of there or your country will be eternally fucked!

Which ever fucks over the EU

How the reform changes the way other european countries look at us
1/3

2/3

3/3

You want the Congress to be independent or do you want to suck EU's cock, user?

if no wins we keep the left for the next 20 years, they will keep getting around 30% of the votes and the government will be a compromise between left and right, EU will continue to influence our governments, we will never have a pure left or right in power. Voting NO doesnt solve anything i'm afraid

YES means ius soli and instant citizenship to one million refugees (we're talking about the ones that are already here, imagine how many more will come here next year once they get the wind of it)

We're sitting on a fucking bomb here, don't be stupid. Here are the actual issues, and the only parties doing shit about it are M5S and Lega
>it.ibtimes.com/evasione-fiscale-italia-e-ue-percentuali-dati-e-numeri-da-incubo-1435808

>he thinks we can be wrong

But we are always right user. That can't be

Chink

Nassim Taleb (if you don't know who he is, kys) explains why relying on the masses and populism is actually a much more effective way to deal with internal problems and why you shouldn't listen to "experts"
>medium.com/@nntaleb/the-intellectual-yet-idiot-13211e2d0577

What is a Yes vote vs a No vote?

I'm ignorant on the issue.

>if no wins we keep the left for the next 20 years
Whoever comes in the place of Renzi will never even get close to the first place

Vote NO or else your goverment will kick you out of your home to accomodate african and muslim squatters

The reform does not touch the Congress, only the Senate. In Europe Italy is the only country where the two chambers have equal power (they both can decide wether or not to keep the Government in power) but they are elected in different ways, so the Elected Government rarely has the majority in both of them. This means that in order to rule, a hypothetical anti EU government would have to compromise with leftists in the Senate in order to rule for more than a few months and put their program in action. This has meant that in Italy since WW2 we never had a government that managed to last the full 5 years of mandate. I don't want this system to continue, so I'll vote yes.

>the government will be a compromise between left and right
The left is self destroying everywhere both in EU and in the USA. Berlusconi is fucked, everybody hates Renzi because he is an unpleasant lying cuck, they will vote for a dog to get rid of him.
It's gonna be M5S vs Lega in the near future

Lega will never gain more than 15%, terroni have too much loathe for them because they remember what they stood for. Grillo is the real threat in my opinion.

Make Italia Great Again

I'm not understand the No vote here.

Why would a smaller government be worse?

We need a majority to slash parliamentary privileges, cut down on tax evasion and coruption and stop the boats. It doesn't take a genius to do that. Grillo is good, vote Grillo, don't listen to the shills. We need populists, we need revolutionaries, we want anti system people that can make things right and expose the colossal scam that the current political system is

>Il secondo dato cui abbiamo fatto riferimento è invece contenuto nel rapporto 2016 dell’istituto di ricerca di Eurispes. In base alle stime del report, l ’Italia avrebbe un PIL sommerso pari a 540 miliardi. Una cifra enorme se si tiene conto che il PIL ufficiale ammonta invece a 1.500 miliardi di euro. Da sottolineare che ai 540 miliardi ne vanno aggiunti ulteriori 200 che non sono stati inclusi in quanto derivanti dall’economia criminale. 740 miliardi in tutto dunque nell’ambito dei quali, considerando un livello di tassazione del 50%, l’evasione fiscale (da sola) vale 270 miliardi. Fare due conti a questo punto è abbastanza semplice. Secondo i calcoli di Eurispes l’evasione fiscale in Italia varrebbe il 18% del PIL. Se si tiene conto del sommerso in generale si sale invece al 35%. Un dato molto più elevato rispetto a quello pubblicato dall’Istat, secondo la quale, l’economia sommersa in Italia, vale a dire l'insieme di tutte le attività economiche che contribuiscono al PIL ufficialmente osservato, ma che non sono né registrate né tassate equivarrebbe a circa il 17-18 per cento del PIL.

you know that guy signed up for the program? He backtracked only when he realized that the he would have to use the compensation money to feed and clothe them, and his net revenue would have been around 7€ per person. Dont complain if you bend over and lube your asshole and then someone tries to slide his cock inside.

Io voto no.

I have dual citizenship and voted no along with my 2 sisters.

If Renzi is still in charge in 2017, you're really doomed. Another round of austerity will destroy your country along with the hordes of '''''''''''''''European''''''''''''''''' immigrants.

>you know that guy signed up for the program?
He didn't. He didn't sign jackshit

The reform is not perfect my friend, but yes, it's towards smaller government:
>reduce the number of Senate members by 250;
>eliminates the Provinces
>eliminates a government agency called CNEL, the board for economics and work, 63 people who never did anything relevant in 40 years;
>redefines the roles of State and Region
>Senate members will be chosen among the people elected by the people in the regional councils and the big cities councils (now they are chosen by the parties)

Italians are bluepilled. The name of the players have not been named yet, they believe in things such as "equality" and "tolerance" and have a kneejerk reaction to the redpill. The term "racists" and "xenophobic" are still used unronically

We need to do something before we enter Sweden tier level

Has any country ever done a worse job of explaining something than Italy with this referendum?

And I say this as an expat

il giornale has been fucking useless btw

>l'Eurispes è una fonte più attendibile dell'ISTAT
so benissimo che il nostro paese è una cloaca di mafia, corruzione e clientelismo, ma la soluzione non sono i dilettanti allo sbaraglio che servono solo a portare click al blog di Beppe

it gives way more power to the central government

dude and abolition of article 5 of the constitution

yes he did you imbecil, listen to his own words

youtube.com/watch?v=3h-oNDaUYzg&t=752s

Renzi has to go, he has destroyed the Italian banks with debt. He has to go and Italy has to put a nationalist like Grillo. That way Italy can maybe still be saved

Because there is fuckall to explain, it's all smoke and mirror to throw in the next bailout to MPS now and Deutsche Bank in February by putting EU budget laws into our Constitution.
That and having the power to do that by taking out the Senate (it will be no longer able to repel laws) and having a majority in Parliament with the majority prize.

PD is like an angry kid losing at a board game nobody understands. As soon as it gets tough they change the rules, only to get BTFO once again

>Grillo
>nationalist
they're not against immigration tho

Grillo and M5S are fucking jokes. Don't fall for the meme.

vota NO, negro

Italians are dumber than we thought mane

Si che lo sono. Loro come chiunque altro che non sia nel sistema.

>What we have been seeing worldwide, from India to the UK to the US, is the rebellion against the inner circle of no-skin-in-the-game policymaking “clerks” and journalists-insiders, that class of paternalistic semi-intellectual experts with some Ivy league, Oxford-Cambridge, or similar label-driven education who are telling the rest of us 1) what to do, 2) what to eat, 3) how to speak, 4) how to think… and 5) who to vote for.
>The IYI pathologizes others for doing things he doesn’t understand without ever realizing it is his understanding that may be limited. He thinks people should act according to their best interests and he knows their interests, particularly if they are “red necks” or English non-crisp-vowel class who voted for Brexit. When plebeians do something that makes sense to them, but not to him, the IYI uses the term “uneducated”. What we generally call participation in the political process, he calls by two distinct designations: “democracy” when it fits the IYI, and “populism” when the plebeians dare voting in a way that contradicts his preferences. While rich people believe in one tax dollar one vote, more humanistic ones in one man one vote, Monsanto in one lobbyist one vote, the IYI believes in one Ivy League degree one-vote, with some equivalence for foreign elite schools and PhDs as these are needed in the club.
>The IYI has been wrong, historically, on Stalinism, Maoism, GMOs, Iraq, Libya, Syria, lobotomies, urban planning, low carbohydrate diets, gym machines, behaviorism, transfats, freudianism, portfolio theory, linear regression, Gaussianism, Salafism, dynamic stochastic equilibrium modeling, housing projects, selfish gene, election forecasting models, Bernie Madoff (pre-blowup) and p-values. But he is convinced that his current position is right.

stai zitto e torna in cucina nel ristorante gestito dalla ndrangheta dove lavori

>But the problem is the one-eyed following the blind: these self-described members of the “intelligentsia” can’t find a coconut in Coconut Island, meaning they aren’t intelligent enough to define intelligence hence fall into circularities—but their main skill is capacity to pass exams written by people like them. With psychology papers replicating less than 40%, dietary advice reversing after 30 years of fatphobia, macroeconomic analysis working worse than astrology, the appointment of Bernanke who was less than clueless of the risks, and pharmaceutical trials replicating at best only 1/3 of the time, people are perfectly entitled to rely on their own ancestral instinct and listen to their grandmothers (or Montaigne and such filtered classical knowledge) with a better track record than these policymaking goons.

Are south and north Italy quite politically similar nowadays or is there still degeneracy between them

oh fuck no. Huge difference. Always been.

>he's voting yes.

yes he is

...

From 5 stelle program for the city of Rome
Accoglienza
● Organizzazione e promozione di iniziative per una Roma città accogliente e tollerante nei confronti di tutte le diversità;

● Supporto alla strutturazione dei centri antiviolenza, valorizzando lo strumento della semiautonomia e degli sportelli d’ascolto.

Immigrazione, inclusione, intercultura
● Distribuzione equa dei migranti su tutti i Municipi Romani e conseguente verifica puntuale degli obiettivi di integrazione, vigilando sulle infiltrazioni del malaffare;

Does that sound against immigration to you?

Perchè non possiamo avere un partito nazionalista serio come gli altri paesi europei PORCODIOOO

And from the program for Torino

Integrazione e immigrazione

Trasparenza: garantire una buona e proficua gestione dei fondi per l’accoglienza e l’inclusione
No al business dell’accoglienza: impedire che l’accoglienza diventi uno strumento di spartizione di potere e denaro, creazione di clientele e gestione di influenze politiche
Basta con “l’emergenza”: migliorare la capacità ricettiva cittadina e prevenire situazioni emergenziali con una progettazione di lungo periodo
Inclusione sociale: riduzione della tensione sociale in città attraverso il miglioramento dei servizi primari ai cittadini
Legalità: realizzazione delle condizioni che favoriscano la permanenza legale degli stranieri sul territorio e contrasto alle forme di criminalità diffusa
Lotta alle discriminazioni: contrasto a forme di discriminazione xenofoba

perchè a differenza degli altri paesi, non abbiamo potuto mai avere una sinistra progressista vera al potere. Non abbiamo mai potuto sperimentare la libertà democratica di fare i nostri errori. gli americani non ce lo permettevano. E adesso, vogliamo ancora quello. Ogni movimento di destra sfocia nel fascismo o nel populismo becero.

Do you hate your nation and your freedom? If yes, vote yes. If you don't want our country ruined forever, vote no.

da che pulpito

You'd rather have a dictatorship than a compromise? Then maybe democracy is not for you. Maybe you should go to another country.

>a dictatorship
the reform basically makes italy's system like Germany, France, Austria and all the other european countries. Do they have a dictatorship? We know what a dictatorship looks like, it's fascism and suppression of freedom of speech. You're an idiot and your opinion is stupid

Hai iniziato con "Come faccio a capire se mi piace prenderlo al culo se non ho mai provato a prenderlo al culo?" ed hai finito con "la destra i fasci i populisti webeti XDXD"

Torna su Sup Forums

youtu.be/GskyD10QgV0
oh great italians

forse non hai capito il mio discorso, sto dicendo che un governo puramente di sinistra è un disastro, ma un disastro che avremmo dovuto vedere coi nostri occhi. Invece adesso c'è ancora molta gente che ha ancora l'ideale nel cuore e vuole il comunismo/socialismo perchè non ha mai visto di cosa è veramente capace. Per questo la destra non sale al potere, perchè siamo mentalmente bloccati al 1978

...

Make Italy Great Again

The only way for Italy to become great again is if you travel back to the Roman empire

is this building real?

it looks so amazing

it reminds me of that game connect 4

italians living abroad are the worst shit ever.

termometropolitico.it/1237329_referendum-boom-voto-estero-affluenza-40.html

this article explains that nearly 60% of them have voted yes.

Bisogna ammettere che renzi è riuscito ad unire l'italia.

no wonder americans have a shit taste for art. That building is awful

Italians abroad voted MONTI at twice the rate of italians in italy in 2013 elections.

I'm quite sure not even who wrote the referendum understood what they were actually written.

It's really that much of a mess.

sono dei conservatori del cazzo gli italiani all'estero, gioca molto anche l'informazione degli altri paesi che se vince il no ci sarà il crollo delle banche, gli ebrei che ti prosciugano il conto in banca, grillo al governo ecc

What are the most far-right/nationalist regions of Italy?

And I don't mean regionalists, so "I hate everyone but I hate other Italians more" Venetians don't count as nationalists.

What's the most commie/far-left region? Is it Tuscany or Emilia? Or somewhere else?

veneto, lombardia, trentino alto adige, friuli venezia giulia.
Those are all regions of the north, idon't think that in the south there are racists and far right voters.

>wanting a tyranny
Kill yourself

Emilia is the commie stronghold for sure, I don't know what is the most right wing region, maybe Sicily by your standards. Berlusconi got all the seats from Sicily one time (probably thanks to the mafia but still)

>tyranny
see

>Do they have a dictatorship?
Ask again after Merkel gets re-elected again.

Giving more power to a man is tyranny
We kicked out Tarquinius, we killed Ceasar, we murdered Mussolini, we'll get rid of Renzi if we have to
France had a revolution for it, I don't wanna go that far, but we'll do it if it's necessary

if people vote for her in a democratic election, i don't have to ask

>we'll do it if necessary
ffs user, you need a TSO if you think italians will ever riot for anything not football related

Do you know people voted for Stalin too?

I voted NO, because my father told me to do so. I don't know much about italian politics, but he is pretty redpilled, so i trusted him.

YOU HAD BETTER

>friuli venezia giulia.
They elected an italian left wing immigrant that hates them as regional governor.

>(((we)))

NO

Everything else is a huge mistake.

whatever happens tomorrow in your narrow heads, remember to ride the tiger cause resistance is futile in europe

>inb4 trump and brexit

go ahead, call them. we're not anglos.

VOTE NO FOR NATIONALISM

vote yes for the empire

Don't be daft the reform is for bigger and stronger government

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BRAVO, 5 shekels per (((Te)))

When exactly did he say it in the video?

>Redefines the role of the State and the Regions
By centralizing the fucking thing.
Come on... We all know that the competing tasks are creating attrition between the State and the Regions, because both can appeal and do law-making in some domains.
However, I thought everyone in Italy agreed that some degree of Federalism is needed to fight off authoritarianism. Even most left wingers agree.

But... Wait...
>Clause/Comma of supremacy
>The State can override all decisions taken by regions
Why not abolish Regions altogether then?

Ffs I don't dislike parts of the Constitutional reform, but I wish I could have voted for separate items. A whole bundle is perfectly pointless.

I feel utterly blackmailed. If I agree to X, I also get Y, and Z delivered to my place... Thus burdening me with unwanted duties. Fuck no.

i have friends from friuli, i go in friuli every summer, they hate that bitch governor, and racism is growing strong over there.

M5S are fucking weasels.
They squirted the worst-smelling juices of hatred and then they advance some kind of internationalist radical-chic program.

Ma per favore.
Porco dio è un partito di lists civiche. Che cazzo vi aspettate? Coerenza?

Please, Anons.
Holy shit: They're a party made of local political clubs... What do you expect from them? Coherence? Not the least...

user, i completely respect these concerns you have, personally i also don't like the clause of supremacy. In my opinion the good sides surpass the bad. But i'm glad someone is voting no after having read the actual reform. Kudos