Tariffs are a tax

Tariffs are a tax

If you are for low/no taxes then you should be for low/no tariffs.

If you are for low taxes but high tariffs then you are Trump, aka and inconsistent idiot.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=Gr-Ld7DnBZQ
thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/05/01/population-differences-in-individualism/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Are you fucking retarded? What part of jobs inside America is better than jobs outside America?

Both things make America great by allowing American businesses a bigger cut of the profit instead of Americans paying foreign companies for their services.

It seems very consistent with his speeches about put Americans first.

Thanks for assuring your ignorance in economics. Tariffs are taxes on imports. Taxing people less stimulates economic growth, and taxing business overseas more cause them to come back to America to receive profits instead of double taxation and then creating more jobs in the country and stimulating more growth

It's pretty much a consensus among right wing economists that tariffs are bad for the host country.

taxes are for people inside the country.
tariffs are for people outside the country trying to import goods.
you must be trolling.

Tariffs reduce competition within the host country and worsens the economy.

it's pretty much a consensus amoung Sup Forums users that you're a faggot. And also that free trade is failing in its current form.

>all taxes are the same so if you support one you must support all of them

t. millenial

That's why I'm making this thread, because Sup Forums is wrong.

All taxes have the same impact on the economy, no matter how they are implemented.

Sup Forums's autism is really showing tonight

>taxing business overseas

You aren't taxing businesses overseas you are taxing imports.

>creating more jobs in the country

This is where Sup Forums's autism really shines. Jobs overseas are not coming back. Get that through your basement dwelling, girlfriendless, cheeto-stained head. Overseas jobs that require imports which could have tariffs raised against them are manufacturing jobs. Those are never coming back. Manufacturing on the other hand, has come back. Automated manufacturing. Where there was a factory full of employees making 30,000 a year, now there are machines that cost 10,000 once to set up and one engineer to maintain. But hey, keep drinking up Trumps bullshit lies. Not like anyone here understand economics anyways.

Why should we not tax foreign produced goods?

Yea, free trade is probably the next Socialism Meme, it will work this time I swear, last time it wasn't real free trade!

You ship the jobs overseas you pay to import, Goldstein.

Tariffs are a protectionist tax, the only affect international competitors. It is not inconsistent to be pro-tariff, anti-tax; however, that would make you a protectionist.

Are economists really this retarded? So even in your utopic world with one engineer running the plant, what about all the side jobs that a factory needs to run? What about construction workers/Equipment Haulers/Security Enforcement/Restaurants to feed these people. Wake up from your fagot city life and realize that factories create whole fucking towns around them.

America was built on tariffs. Before we had an income tax, before we had sales taxes, before we had Social Security and capital gains and payroll taxes, we had tariffs.

The problem isn't tariffs, the problem is the million other kinds of taxes that we invented since our founding. If we got rid of them and just used tariffs, things would be fine.

(((right-wing economists)))

It reduces the competitiveness of those goods in the host economy. That means competition is less pure and the economy suffers from that. The economy suffers because without pure competition the market does not function properly and the consumers, then ultimately the GDP, suffers.

good post

>it will work this time I swear, last time it wasn't real free trade!
If you're implying that I've said free trade in the past has failed because it wasn't "real free trade" that's not true. Unlike socialism it's clear that free trade has worked when where implemented. For example, NAFTA has been an economic success for our country.

The rest of you idiots ITT are just regurgitating the same arguments, if you could call them that, that have already been addressed.

If your competition are not pricing the cost of civilization into their product then the only way to compete is by destroying yours.

Thanks for my daily dose of revisionist history.

Wow, when did consensus become evidence?

Damnit, you beat me to it!

What's revisionist about it, commie? Show me evidence of income taxes and social security taxes at the founding of this republic.

I'll wait.

Is that why Japan has such a shitty economy?

That's how science works. Haven't you heard of climate change?

God people are so stupid

>So even in your utopic world with one engineer running the plant

Its not my utopic world, its reality.

> what about all the side jobs that a factory needs to run

Side jobs like what? Construction workers? Are you that fucking dense? Those jobs never left. No one is discussing them. Its manufacturing jobs that are threatened.

>factories create whole fucking towns around them

Maybe in the 1950's when domestic manufacturing made sense. But it looks like you are getting angry because discussing basic economics has triggered your tiny brain.

The US is an autarky that maintains vassal relations with many countries; trade policies that work well for Luxembourg do not necessarily apply to the USA.

Throughout the most prosperous time in US history 1865-1965, the US followed a protectionist trade policy and economic development policies designed to improve the internal infrastructure of the country. They also blended foreign policy and economic policy - securing the Panama canal and ports throughout the world.

The average economist says tariffs are bad for a reason, but it isn't as cut and dry as OP wants you to think.
youtube.com/watch?v=Gr-Ld7DnBZQ
This pretty much sums it up; however, in reality it is a bit more complicated. Some will argue the increase in domestic production (and as a result more jobs) is a good thing.

tariffs are avoidable by purchasing domestically made products. they incentivise domestic industry. so long as you dont go full retard with them like brazil they are preferential to taxation, especially the income tax.

>All taxes have the same impact on the economy, no matter how they are implemented.

Bullshit.

>All taxes have the same impact on the economy, no matter how they are implemented.
You literally don't know what you're talking about.

>That means competition is less pure and the economy suffers from that.

This is only relevant among many small nations trading together. We have 300+ million people and a massive country. The marginal utility of MORE people interacting with our economy isn't that great.

I'd like to point this out to you pro-tariffs people.

The amount of jobs moved overseas is not a sign of how successful the economy is doing.

I don't know why you guys feel like "saving jobs from going overseas" will actually help the economy. There's just no relation between the two. There are so many other factors going on.

You are making the argument that america became successful because tariffs were high and taxes were low. That is nonsense. You're pushing the entire success of the economy into a neat little variable that you can use to push your ideology. It's much more complicated that that. A lot more happened in our history than our tax/tariff rates that led to our success.

You're saying things would be better if we just went back to that old model as if those variables alone are the keys to success. I don't know if revisionist is exactly the right word, you're just an ideologue pushing your agenda.

read my reply to the post above and apply it to Japan.

That's the hypothesis that's been proven wrong and wrong again. Notice how you could only point to an example of when tariffs seemed to have failed another country. Also, even if you used an example of a "successful" implementation of tariffs you'd just be simplifying the economy to fit your agenda like the post I replied to earlier in this post.

I'm talking about the underlying rules. All taxes abide by the same rules, there's nothing mysterious about how any of them work. We know how they'll impact the economy when implemented no matter how they are implemented.

Are you making the case that tariffs would be good or that they'd just not be that bad?

I'm for taxing FOREIGN imported goods.

Does that clear it up for you?

>All taxes have the same impact on the economy, no matter how they are implemented.
Except this is textbook wrong lol

see for clarification of what I meant
>I'm talking about the underlying rules. All taxes abide by the same rules, there's nothing mysterious about how any of them work. We know how they'll impact the economy when implemented no matter how they are implemented.

>We know how they'll impact the economy when implemented no matter how they are implemented.
Quote:
>All taxes have the same impact on the economy, no matter how they are implemented.
Don't be a kike.

Totally fucking wrong. That's like you watched a Jeffrey Cucker video and regurgitated it.

This fucking leaf couldn't respond to the right post.
I guess that means I won this argument.

Whatever nigger. You have incredibly gay beliefs about trade policy.

>like having thousands of people with a new higher sense of purchasing power has zero affect on a domestic economy
>like
>like
>like

You are starting to fall into market fundamentalism, everyone knows taxes are bad; but they don't all have the same effects. I personally don't agree with tariffs and believe instead the government should try to stay out of the economy as much as possible, but you are going full Rothbard. You never go full Rothbard.

Libertarians who voted for trump are fucking idiots.


>High tariffs
>Anti free market
>anti western ideals

what is your argument even? that tariffs are bad? no shit?

>Libertarians think they're defending the West

You have a choice between
>tariffs and lower taxes
or
>Higher market regulation, cronyism, higher taxes, etc.

Not defending the West but tariffs and anti immigration aren't exactly pro western ideas

Gary Johnson is a fucking idiot but voting party was better then either

>i lost my job
Well, actually, iPhones are $100 cheaper than if they were designed and made in the US
>I can't find work
Well, actually, GDP is up this year by 0.2% more than it would have if it weren't for the expanded trade deals
>what am I going to do? retrain? i'm 55.
Well, actually, the cost of goods is decreasing on an aggregated scale by an additional 0.3% annualized

etc...

I had nobody else to vote for

>Not defending the West but tariffs and anti immigration aren't exactly pro western ideas

>Anti-Immigration is Anti-West
Maybe Anti-Jewish

You can't have White culture without White people.
Libertarianism is a White phenomena.
If you're not pro-White, you're anti-Libertarian.

>Gary Johnson is a fucking idiot but voting party was better then either
I would agree if you live in a state where it really doesn't matter, but our system has made 3rd party votes a wasted vote in swing states. I wouldn't vote for A. Leppo blindly in an election as close and important as this.

>If you're not pro-White, you're anti-Libertarian.

Have you looked into it at all user

It's culture and not race, it's the NAP and not liking force.

You have zero idea about libertarian ideas if your end game doesn't involve free borders and free market.

Gary but I still think he's a fucking idiot

>Have you looked into it at all user
Yes, that's why I think the way I do. I was an ancap 2 years ago.
thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/05/01/population-differences-in-individualism/
>It's culture and not race, it's the NAP and not liking force.
Culture comes from race. You cannot maintain the culture without the blood.
>You have zero idea about libertarian ideas if your end game doesn't involve free borders and free market.
Open borders would destroy any chance of a libertarian state.

Tariffs are taxing other counties you mongoloid. The country was originally intended to be run on tariffs and NOT the quasi-legal income tax we have today.

I'm seeing a lot of non-arguments in this thread.

Tariffs are bad in that they restrict competition, meaning that domestic monopolies have an easier time forming, and that they result in higher prices for goods.

If a domestic steel company gets out competed by a foreign steel company, that will mean jobs lost in that industry, but other domestic industries will see an increase of jobs as demand for goods we export increases and as more money can be spent in other areas of the economy. If you implemented a tariff, you would be subsidizing the inefficient domestic steel company and reducing economic activity by making manufacturers spend more on steel, causing higher prices for various goods throughout the economy.

>Culture comes from race. You cannot maintain the culture without the blood.
>Open borders would destroy any chance of a libertarian state.

What the fuck do you think Libertarians are user

t. globalist

Economics isn't a science

Science isn't the only source of truth.

>It's culture and not race.You have zero idea about libertarian ideas if your end game doesn't involve free borders and free market.
This kind of radicalism is what turns me off from being a libertarian. I am a strong supporter of the nation state, as well as the most people. The goal of libertarianism should not be demolishing history and culture in the name of economics, instead it should allow the free flow of goods and ideas between nations while respecting their individuality. Because that is what libertarianism is about, individuality whether it is culture or a person.

It is a weird semi-science. Half of it is based in objective observable fact, the other is based in guess work.

When other nations are competing unfairly by paying workers shit you level the playing field. How hard is this to understand you kike?

first come the socialists, then the globalists

There is no single form of libertarianism.

I think we should tax the rich more, not tax burger production, and utilize tariffs/nationalist fiscal policy like any sane country would at this point.

America is still GEC recovery mode, after the failed decisions of the previous administrations. We need a nationalist policy for a change.

>he thinks the matrix is real
Do the robots make themselves? Do they make the raw materials? Here is where your autism shines through. Rebbit is calling, go back.

Yes but tariffs are only a tax against the JEW.

Why is abolishing culture bad? I don't mean burning cultural outfits, I mean peacefully encouraging western culture ideals.

Also it is radical but because you would do it peacefully and have to let the free market play a big role, non of what I said could be done soon at all. It might takes 100 years to abolish the FDA but you should limit the size of government.

I know, but I meant the mainstream libertarian movement and party.

who cares
who cares
who cares

Fuck off back to rebdit niggerlover.

>If you are for low taxes but high tariffs then you are Trump, aka and inconsistent idiot.
yeah when did this ever work lol

nope can't remember anything

op should be on the receiving end of gunfire

Tariffs protect the difference in laws between countries because Burgers follow their regulations and get fucked by other countries with no obligation to practice the same business

Alright faggot but the argument is there wouldn't be any laws having to do with trade.

Your saying that the races would separate and I'm say the opposite would happen.

>taking money from forieghners

Lol are you kidding? I wish we would force nations to pay us tribute a la antiquity but tariffs will do

Economics is mostly game theory. Everyone is in it to get rich.

I didn't make an argument though.

>Why is abolishing culture bad?
Because it is an essential part of the human experience, without it we are just Brave New World tier consumers
>I don't mean burning cultural outfits, I mean peacefully encouraging western culture ideals.
I believe individuality is the only western ideal that should be universal, but I think it is wrong to want other cultures to eliminate their traditions because the market will run more efficiently if they do. I am not just a white supremacist, I truly believe everyone, even the Africans and Hispanics, should have a nation state and a history they rally behind and hold closely to their heart.
>Also it is radical but because you would do it peacefully and have to let the free market play a big role, non of what I said could be done soon at all.
But that doesn't change the underlying principle behind it, you call for a sacrifice of cultural identity to help the markets. I don't believe that is right, whether it is in 100 days or 100 decades.
>you should limit the size of government.
This I can agree on for the most part.

wrong user
xoxoxoxoxo

The tariffs won't happen. It's a threat.

Yes, because obviously it's better if all those people unemployed by the decline of manufacturing are on welfare

>It's culture not race
Found the cuck
I have recently divorced my self from most aspects of classical liberalism (le tips fedora xDDDD) because of shit like this.
Do you think the achievements of western civilization just sprung up as a multicultural ancrap paradise? Multiculturalism is a new phenomenon for a reason. A racially homogenous populace is a productive populace, hence why we were able to conquer the world.

Rather simplistic understanding you have there, gomer.

You should be left to do what you want.

I think maybe I stated my point shitty.

I don't think you shouldn't be able to criticize a culture if that culture believes in harmful forceful ideologies like lip rings and cutting off someones labia.

Individuality is a good western ideal and was important to the U.S forming.

I don't agree there should be a nationstate for any group, I don't really give a fuck about race. I don't see the importance to that at all.

I don't get the argument for preserving culture

>All taxes have the same impact on the economy, no matter how they are implemented.


You're as dumb as a communist.

Pseudo-science?

>x is similar to y, therefore everyone who believes x also believes y

strawman thread?

Here's my question faggot. If all these jobs are automated like you say, why would they put their factories half way around the world? what fucking difference does it make where they are if everything is automated?

>that they result in higher prices for goods.
ive never understood this argument. if a monopoly forms whats to stop smaller businesses from taking market share if said monopoly becomes complacent?

It is understandable if you don't fully understand nationalism, start reading books like Brave New World or books written during the Romantic Period that may explain the ideas behind it.
Nah, there are two different sets of economics, one is objective, the other is what may happen

>if a monopoly forms whats to stop smaller businesses from taking market share if said monopoly becomes complacent?
Within the country, nothing would stop this from happening. The tariff stops this from happening on an international level, meaning monopolies protected by a tariff won't be usurped if they try profiteering. This makes maintaining monopolies easier, because you have less competition.

The reason that prices would be higher is an assumption based on the pro-tariff argument that goes "our workers need protection from foreign companies who can provide goods at lower prices and beat demand for our domestic goods." If this were true, that would mean if the government prevented free trade from these foreign companies we would have to spend more than if we had no tariff. If the domestic companies could provide the same goods at the lower price they wouldn't need the tariff protection in the first place.

>Do the robots make themselves?

Yea, manufacturing of manufacturing machines is being automated too, you retard.

>Do they make the raw materials?

Yes. They do. Do you honestly think that mining is done with a pickaxe and a hardhat anymore?

You really think that the number of displaced manufacturing workers equals the number of engineers required to design, install and supervise the machinery? This is why there is so much support for trump on Sup Forums. You retards have no clue what you are talking about.

makes sense. i think many people feel that tariffs are acceptable when trading with countries like china that have state subsidized industry that operatates at a loss.

Sorry you are having such trouble understanding basic economics :(. I will use tiny words so you can understand better. A factory full of American workers is expensive. A factory full of Tiawanese workers is cheap. If I am a manufacturing company, I will set up a factory overseas. If Trump raises tariffs so high that I need to move it back to the US, I won't higher American workers because they are expensive, remember? Instead I will buy machines! You know like robots? The things that go beep boop. But that is still expensive! So consumer prices will go up! Meaning that the tariffs have raised prices in the US while creating no jobs.

There. Was that easier to understand?

>what am I going to do? retrain? i'm 55.

Yes

>You aren't taxing businesses overseas you are taxing imports.
Literally the same thing, dumbass.

No, they aren't, dumbass. Read more here.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax