Elon Musk recently declared that a universal basic income was a reasonable next step for the U.S. "There is a pretty good chance we end up with a universal basic income, or something like that, due to automation," Musk told CNBC. "Yeah, I am not sure what else one would do. I think that is what would happen."
BASIC INCOME NOW!
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Tfw someone says what you also believe but gets credit because theyre actually important
one step closer to communism
>universal basic income
yeah, I don't think that's whats going to happen.
>robots will push us to a mass extinction event as a large population of plebes will no longer be necessary to accommodate the lives of the rich and powerful
And you motherfuckers are just going to let it happen to you.
>tfw robots are the sweet angels of the future that will push everything into motion
I mean, yeah, eventually, but not for at least a century.
Implying your corporate masters won't let you starve to death when they have no use for you and you're too broke to buy their shit.
>>robots will push us to a mass extinction event as a large population of plebes will no longer be necessary to accommodate the lives of the rich and powerful
Yeah, this looks like what is going to happen, actually.
> 100 rich and powerful derping around
> 3 guys maintainig all the robots
> the 3 guys say "fuck it", blap all the robots and GTFO
>???
> Profit
the 3 machine workers earn 100 million a year. have playboy gfs and mazerratihelicopters.
Reminder: There is no way to pay for UBI.
If we only paid working age people a pittance of $15,000 per year it would cost just under $3 Trillion. Total federal spending for 2015 was $3.9 Trillion. This would still leave retirees on social security out, and its not factoring in Medicade costs either.
If we totally got rid of Medicade and all Social assistance programs we'd save just $2.4 Trillion per year.
All of this, keep in mind, while the US is spending itself deeper into debt every year. If we started placing extreme taxes on the largest corporations then we'd end up with the current top 10% contributing well over 50% of all tax revenue. Lobbyists would be more empowered than ever. Essentially all democratic power would be consolidated in fewer hands than ever before.
UBI cannot work.
UBI in itself is a doomsday scenario.
State dependency must never be normalized.
Any government with the power to give you anything can take away everything.
Pierre gets it. You think they are going to share the wealth when the under class become unnecessary? They would view extermination as a cheaper long term solution.
UBI = inevitable genocide
He's right.
the only question is when
A "universal basic income" isn't going to happen for a long time.
However, as time goes on it's going to be increasingly difficult to find certain jobs.
On this topic, I find it hilarious how liberals all go for Human Resources shit, those mofos are a dime a dozen, makes me laugh every time one of them bitches about not being able to find a job they went to school for.
I've been thinking of fucking with them by making fake HR positions on job sites just to see how many people respond.
Whats 300 million times lets say, 15k?
Elon Musk is a hack. Basic income isn't happening. Once automation becomes feasible enough to truly replace swathes of workers, the elites will just kill them off.
>If we only paid working age people a pittance of $15,000 per year it would cost just under $3 Trillion. Total federal spending for 2015 was $3.9 Trillion
yes, basic income is not realistic right now. but the thing is, we're talking about the future retard. many jobs will be automated and gdp will be higher
Elon meme should just shut the fuck up with almost all his MUH FUTURE ideas crashing with no survivors
>calling anyone retarded
>when you don't understand simple econ
In this fantasy future of yours, is the US population going to shrink significantly? Because unless GDP radically increases and outpaces population growth nothing will change. It is still impossible to pay for by a very wide margin.
Universal basic income could happen but you know there's still open borders.
How can you have a Universal basic income for the entire world?
McDonalds has had the technology to automatically flip burgers and scoop fries since your great-grandparents were kids. The fact is, humans have preferences and most people prefer the idea of their food being cooked by a chef with a personality. Humans also have a trait that robots won't have for a very long time, the ability to quickly think on our feet and come up with novel solutions.
You guys are absolutely clueless if you think automation has been a technical limitation.
THE WALL
Better solution
>don't have basic income
>let useless people die off so humanity doesn't drive itself extinct
It doesn't work like that, Musk may be a great marketer and visionary, but he's not a politician.
One day we'll have the AI create periods of growth for us to live/retire on, with each generation waiting for its time to arrive when it will benefit (starting out at a young age and growing periodically). The state will be the AI/robot administration and it will regulate said growths. At that time there will be an income, but not a "basic" and "universal" one - it will be managed according to your contribution to society and will be determined by the possibility for AI, e.g. if there's less room/resources for AI and robots to be produced than birth rates, it will be lowered.
This all depends on finding a new planet as well though or terraforming existing ones, as an AI/robot revolution with a complete overhaul of income cannot happen on earth, we're too many and we'd need a huge purge for that to happen.
Let Musk do his cars and stuff, leave the politics to other people, please.
AI and robots WILL surpass us at some point in MOST jobs, not all. The fact of the matter is we're not there yet.
For example, for planes to be piloted by AI it has to be advanced enough to COMPLETELY eliminate the need for a pilot in ALL solutions. Until then autopilot has to be severely scaled down, because human dependence on AI causes human error (the famous case of that french plane).
It won't happen in our lifetime, and probably not in the next five lifetimes, simply because there would be a gigantic push back against it.
Fast food could have been 100% automated ten years ago, but how's that shit working out?
Ugly autistic permavirgin commie neckbeard kill yourself weirdo
Basic income is not communist or capitalist. You can have a basic income in a communist society, like you can have basic income in a capitalist society, where you have the choice to do nothing with your life and live on the basic income, or starts your company, work for a job, accumulate wealth.
OY VEY WHY SO RACIST GOYIM?
Seriously though, if you even scratch the surface of UBI you find that there is no substance to it. Its pure fantasy that no one has ever put real thought into.
The response to globalization of trade and manufacturing is not the globalization of nations. The response is nationalism and protectionism.
Nations must take steps in order for wealth to remain within their borders at some point. They must also take steps to end any sort of financially motivated mass immigration. If we let people enter our borders and provide them with gratis social assistance, it will attract people only seeking to live on that social assistance. We have millions of people in the US who only came here to participate in what is essentially welfare tourism.
It is as unsustainable as everything else that Communist redditfags think up.
It's not pure fantasy one day, in the far future, when you have plenty of space on terraformed planets and AI and robots do 90% of the work.
For our lifetime, it is.
basic income is inherently collectivist and thus opposed to capitalism. it requires the redistribution of wealth.
Obviously, if we take the hard definition of capitalism, it doesn't fit in. But please don't be so binary, we live in a continuous world, why should our ideas be discrete ?
And who's going to own those robots? The government? Is that what you're advocating for? Because that's the only way a basic income would make sense. If the robots were owned by private businesses, they would have to pay to maintain them, as well as the utilities to operate them, which would effectively be their wage. In many cases, that cost is higher than just paying a human minimum wage. So where would the basic income come from?
Let's say you just go full retard and tax companies at 100% to pay for lazy people to stay at home, you think prices will just stay the same and everyone will just happily enjoy their free stuff? No. Prices\COL would constantly offset the basic income. It would be a perpetual race to infinity.
Imagine multiple services being done by automated machines, which work in an autonomous and decentralized way, and redistribute their profit for a basic income. This system can then be plugged into a socialist or a capitalist society.
>which work in an autonomous and decentralized way
Imagine unicorns? There will always be someone at the top and it probably won't be you.
...
Don't care dude, I am just saying that basic income is independent from communism/capitalism/nananism whatever. Don't care on which side you are. And I'm on the side of nobody
Man I fucking love inflationary death spirals.
>People get a set income from the government
>This is one step closer to the oxymoronic concept of abolishing both the state and private property
lol, nope. There is no such thing as communism. A UBI is only possible via the State, and is therefore an anti-communist initiative.
Pretty sure this is going to happen once we have robots that can do any physical task. This will make sure 80% of the people are going to be unemployed.
I just want my waifu bot
>redistributing it from robots
Won't UBI just lead to stagflation?
Ubi is a naive Utopian pipe dream.
Within the next 50 years people will be working 20 hours a day 7 days a week for a pile of garbage to sleep on and a trough full of bean paste.
People talking all about robots taking over manual labor, what about AI that will take over the jobs of lawyers and judges etc.
Give waifu bots and BI to human trash but with the condition that they don't get to reproduce. It would be the happiest genocide
this leaf wants to be hardcore but bread and circus wont let him
have you seen the current state of ai?
that's why nobody talks about it yet
>paying people for simply existing
Top left. Fuck off commie.
Probably best to not be part of the underclass then, you cockroach.
youtu.be
really gets my noggin joggin.
>but the thing is, we're talking about the future retard. many jobs will be automated and gdp will be higher
>developed countries would have at least 300% real GDP per capita growth in the foreseeable future
Duuuuuuuude.
AI can already replace a low level associate or medical researcher. All clerical work can be easily automated with today's technology.
Its really not that hard a concept to grasp but most burgers are too enslaved.
youtu.be
At such state of the economy there is no use for humans.
Elon Musk spouts a lot of speculative fiction bullshit like to distract the goiyms from the fact that none of his actual businsess make any money.
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course it will. It came pretty close in Sweden and Canada already has a program.
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ITT: Worthless losers who dream of getting paid for merely existing
Not realizing 95% of people would stop working and the entire system would collapse pretty much immediately.
>muh protestant work ethic
Wage labor is just one step away from actual slavery. It's not a good thing.
>Not realizing 95% of people would stop working and the entire system would collapse pretty much immediately.
USA already exists at some sort of UBI without collapsing. Only problem with realistic UBI is it x10 times less than its advocates hope it would be. No fun. "Basic needs" not in american envision but USSR envision
Wouldn't a basic income devalue the USD and lead to massive inflation?
It should have been done a long time ago. Hopefully, it will come before there are too many people starving in the streets.
>Elon Musk says robots will push us to a universal basic income
That's other way to mean race war so we remove all the non-humans
>Working for a living is one step away from actual slavery
Yeah, you sound like a Leftist.
No because corporations won't increase their prices to widen their profit margins.
Hi NSA CIA FBI. Stop fucking with our board fagets. UBI is here and theres jack shit u and ur cabal masters can do as they burn up in flames.
even as we speak Bitcoin is replacing cash.
youtu.be
They shouldn't. :^)
We're just smugly reminding you that one ideology is giving way.
It's not a true victory until capitalists decide that communist ideas were theirs all along.
>working to survive
>working so you aren't killed by your master
Hmm they seem pretty similar to me. Not saying that they are exactly the same of course. Just that they definitely share a lot of negative attributes.
>reproduce
as if
You should visit finland, I've done nothing in years and getting paid good money. You stupid fuck.
God, why don't we just BAN automation? We banned monopolies and literal slavery already for the good of wageslavery, why not automation?
>Earns billions a year through some lazy taxpayer-funded corporation
>"w-we need basic income..."
ok i won't get in the way of your epic Eclypse Phase RP my good gentlesir
Look up "basic economics free pdf".
We didn't really ban monopolies. We just banned an archaic form of monopoly.
Inflation is the result of having more money in circulation than the amount of good in circulation.
If the plan is to print more money to give, then yes. If you you actually balance the budget and properly tax the ultra rich, and actually redistribute the wealth, then no.
Why the fuck do people even object to an inheritance tax? How do you think Rotschilds and the like even arise?
That would only work if the whole world banned it together, otherwise your industry will become uncompetitive and collapse...
also in retrospect i suspect that was bait
That's never going to happen though, especially in a political system that is dominated by the very wealthy.
>by ballot method does not work
Golly gee willickers, then I guess there is no other option but to hold your limp dick as a fighter jet busts into your house at 3am.
A lot of things are banned on an international level, like genocide. Since automation would be really detrimental and lead to geocoding most of the population, why not just ban automation on a global scale?
>Not working dangerous or boring repetitive jobs would be detrimental to the population
It would also be severely detrimental to the advancement of industry and our production capability.
Instead of banning it we should be searching for ways to adapt to such a system. UBI is one potential solution, tho a somewhat shitty one.
It's only dangerous to capitalism and the few capitalists at the top.
Is will smith going to stop the robots from taking our jobs?
But who would buy the products?
And people will vote for it in the name of progressiveness.
Just like they will do for the Child Sex agenda.
>Reminder: There is no way to pay for UBI.
Reminder: Money is created ex nihilo.
>All these people delusional about the inevitability of practically all jobs being taken over by AI
Just because the tech isn't there today doesn't mean it won't in the future. ESPECIALLY if that tech makes someone money. That's the only time it really drives forward.
Your job, no matter how complicated, can and will be taken over by AI at some point, barring some sort of extinction event. No, people won't need to run the machines, machines will do that. No, people will not MAKE the machines, machines will.
Its a scary future to think about. UBI may not be the best solution, but the effects of AI replacing jobs are just starting. We are going to have some real tough issues on our hands as soon as 10 years down the road. What do you do when half the people on the planet cannot contribute to the economy? Scary stuff.
we need it now
You drank the futurist kool aid. Any close to resembling an AI is fucking centuries away from where we are right now, automation is a literal boogeyman spread throught the MSM.
Just do some actual fucking reserach instead of getting high and watching YouTube videos.
Can have basic income without sweeping price controls to avoid inflation. But at that point, might was well just do rationing of all good and services
Automation reduces the cost
Which means you can live on less
Which means we won't have basic income, the work week will just be full of 30 hour workers.
Automation reduces the requirement of human labour in the newly Automaten work environment first and foremost.
That reduced "30 hour work week" will be non existatnt becuase the human labour isn't required anymore.
if we push against globalism robots will not be feasible anymore, not having the necessary economy of scale for such an high degree of automation to make sense from an investment perspective.
t. computer engineer who literally did a senior project on ai
Put down the vodka, Dimitri
I doubt human labour wcan be replaced anytime soon. I do, however, very much welcome the idea of working less per week, even if incomes are lower.
more time for fruitless leisurely behavior, yes... but also more time for self-improvement and such. In my country part-time jobs or even slightly reduced workweeks are seen as a bad thing... fucking pig slaves!
elon musk is a retard on this.
robots will just make work easier and force labor to move away from automated areas into other areas.
it will also make many products even cheaper than they already are but most industries are already heavily automated so it wont change much.