This thread is for the discussion of any and all left-wing political ideology, including, but not limited to, Marxism/Socialism/Communism/Anarchism/Syndicalism/etc.
>Socialism is an economic and social system defined by social ownership of the means of production. (Workers democratically own and operate the places in which they work, as opposed to private power aka capitalism)
>The means of production are non-human inputs the create economic value, such as factories, workplaces, industrial machinery, etc. Socialists refer to the means of production as capital, or private property. Private property in the socialist context shouldn't be confused with personal property, such as your home, car, computer, and other possessions.
>In a capitalist society the means of production are owned and controlled privately, by those that can afford them (the capitalist aka those with capital). Production is carried out to benefit the capitalist (production for profit). Workers are paid a wage, and receive that amount regardless of how much value they produce.
>Communism is the highest developed stage of socialism wherein there is no state, no money, no class system. The means of production are owned by all and provide for everyone's needs.
Libertarian: Mikhail Bakunin - God and the State (short read) Thomas Paine - Agrarian Justice Noam Chomsky - Notes on Anarchism Anton Pannekoek - Worker's Councils
Im all for anarchism , but communism isnt anarchism thus you cant be a leftist and say youre an anarchist as communism is a government.
Alexander Diaz
>you can't be a leftist and say youre an anarchist >communism is a government
Communism is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money,[3][4] and the state.[5][6]
Anarchism is a political philosophy that advocates self-governed societies based on voluntary institutions. These are often described as stateless societies,[1][2][3][4] although several authors have defined them more specifically as institutions based on non-hierarchical free associations.[5][6][7][8] Anarchism holds the state to be undesirable, unnecessary, and harmful.[9][10]
I'm sorry to tell you this user but you have donkey brains
Nolan Smith
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Benjamin Jackson
Youve only verified my point , you can call a horse by any other name but a horse is a horse of course of course.
Chase Walker
>left-wing political ideology >Sup Forums - Politically Incorrect Pick one.
Luis Adams
how can marxists believe in both the alienation of the worker, and their developing enough solidarity to revolt?
Jaxson Williams
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Colton Thompson
>implying bloody revolution to overthrow the upper class isn't politically incorrect
Kayden Hill
>communism is a government read the dictionary definition of communism pls >you can't be a leftist and say youre an anarchist anarchism is founded in worker's movements. pls read the dictionary definition of anarchism
Landon Gomez
>bloody revolution I'm literally shaking.
Daniel Butler
You guys have shitty memes and you need to die
Tyler Miller
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE XD
Austin Flores
alienation breeds anger and hostility which will inevitably lead to revolt. throughout history displaced, alienated and oppressed groups eventually grabs some pitchforks and rams them up the ruling-class' anus
Eli Gray
Sounds kind of like an election that happened recently...
Joshua Lopez
Question for you commies:
My end game is that I retire as early as possible and disappear on a sailboat with my wife. Escaping society basically.
In a communist or even heavily socialist country I view this being impossible; ie mandated retirement age minimums etc.
Capitalism gives me a means of escape to GTFO and not have to put up with any of you fuckers anymore. How does communism match this ultimate prize? What is my incentive to keep working besides simple survival? Dont say 'bettering society' or 'personal fulfillment'. I dont care about the prior and work has never provided me the latter in any direct sense.
Bentley Nguyen
Yes, when the people who control the military allow them to do so. With the political orientation of the military being largely right-wing, how do you propose gaining their support? Is the military not separated from class consciousness because they see civilians as a separate class from themselves?
Logan Edwards
The worker is alienated from the meaning and ultimate product of his work, not from all human contact.
Nathan Perry
i don't hate trump anymore than any liberal politician. trump, hillary, whoever will be next. it's all the same shit. just the same ruling class doing the same old shit.
Colton Peterson
I prefer real anarchism not being forced to live as a communist
Jayden Perry
oh, ok,he used it as a term of art, then
Ayden Brown
I don't understand the question. Why wouldn't you just get the boat right now and do whatever you want for money?
My specialization -I work in emergency services- requires I be here. The boat requires money to purchase.
Benjamin Scott
yeah military culture is so regimented that it would be much harder to convince a service member to rebel plus they would be risking treason charges military force in the usa is extremely formidable. even though the working population greatly outnumbers military numbers if they aren't on the same side revolution will probably fail and end with enormous bloodshed. hopefully with enough class consciousness some military might join the revolution but really in the western world in my opinion the solution would be a mass shifting of class consciousness and over time inspire leaders to make changes toward socialism before it explodes into bloody violence.
Grayson Long
What are you talking about, most people have to work until retirement to get by even in capitalist economies unless you are planning on winning the lottery.
Isaiah Williams
This thread is to further an already failed argument that has been refuted time and time again. We have this same conversation every day. You never prove your worth. Your ideology has failed and proved no worth. You are unwelcome here due to the fact that you cannot have a constructive presence. Your threads will fail you.
Kevin Miller
So demsoc, then. Why wouldn't that just hit a wall when the capitalist decides he will give up no more, and since he holds the political power, the working class can't do anything about it?
Levi Howard
lmao, go get a job you left leaning parasites. Why do you faggots hate freedom so much?
Ryder Russell
British people are garbage. They are even shit at racism. They attack Poles for working hard while niggers live off the government and mudslimes rape their children. Absolute trash
Wyatt Davis
He's not president yet. Telling you from experience, expect some last minute porky trickery.
Tyler Edwards
How do I get my wife's son into communism?
Levi Young
I like it how Sup Forums turns into liberal faggots when we are around.
Evan Kelly
the truth is that with automation and post-scarcity being extremely close. the composition of a socialist society would make your dream a closer reality then capitalism. really only a few people would need to work to satisfy the basic needs and requirements of society with industrial machines that can do the work of thousands of men. not everyone needs to work, an even better scenario is that every person is mandated to work but only for an extremely short period of time each day. this would leave the average citizen with time to devote to personal and intellectual pursuits: such as building a sailboat. under capitalism we artificially inflate the work day for no purpose and pay wages for jobs that produce nothing, look at the average office job in the USA, what do these people actually make? what value do they create? what I am advocating here is fully automated luxury communism and the truth is that with the level of technology we have now and efficiency of production this is a closer reality than you think. the only thing stopping us is the capitalist mode of production keeping us doing 40 hours a week for no purpose other than wealth accumulation for the 1%
Jose Richardson
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Grayson Stewart
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Isaac Thomas
FUCK OFF
Joseph Turner
t. mongrel 'white race' freedomburger with 1/36 nigger slave boy and another 1/36 rednigger blood
Dylan Green
War is a good way for the 1% to get rid of surplus workers.
Kevin Miller
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Anthony Bennett
To be frank with you I don't really have an answer for that and I'm not sure anybody does. I hope that gradualism will be successful because as I said before, revolution is inevitable. It is human nature that the top class in a society will exploit their power and influence and the bottom will take a victim role. Look at the stanford prison experiment as an example on a micro-level. I hope that the upper-class will realise this reality and relinquish their power when faced with the reality of a worker's uprising but again I can't be sure. If a revolution is forced to occur in the developed world with a powerful military at their disposal it will be long and bloody. if the revolution is to survive they will need to be organised, sneaky and pragmatic.
Landon Gomez
>Shortages happen. When was the last time you experienced one?
>In a society with money, I can raise prices, decreasing orders from customers Yeah that is a problem. You can literally not fulfill the needs of the population. This is a rationing mechanism. How is that better than a breadline again?
>and then offer more to the furnishers, incentivizing them to produce more for me. And in communism you simply tell them to produce more of what is missing, and less of what is not. To deliver more to the store that are lacking, and less to those that are not.
>Without money, there will be some alternative rationing mechanism. Yes. Obviously, if there is a shortage, there has to be a rationing mechanism one way or another. Neither capitalism nor communism comes with magical powers.
But yet again: when was the last time you experienced a shortage yourself?
>You said it yourself. Any one country becoming socialist is basically suicide. No, I said it is impossible.
>You have to have the entire world on board, giving each other everything they want for free without exchanging money. The same goes for capitalism; as a matter of fact, the whole world has (forcibly) become on board with capitalism now.
>And commodities are finite So are needs.
>how do you decide who gets what and how much? Any way really. Why do you need a universal a priori criterion?
>No answer. I guess you cracked the pot. Congrats. Sometimes, workers do this crazy thing: sleep.
Josiah Fisher
wow what a retard
Isaiah Martinez
I don't see how you'd be prevented from going off with your wife. I'll address some of your points.
>ie mandated retirement age minimums Not sure how this would work against your goal of retiring as early as possible.
>What is my incentive to keep working besides simple survival? There will be retirement under socialism. I don't see what would prevent it.
Aiden Carter
Nice
Easton Williams
>Im all for anarchism , but communism isnt anarchism The Marxist interpretation of communism is one of two that competed for relevance. Anarchistic communism has been less-known ever since the Soviet Union took over the socialist movement.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Kropotkin >Kropotkin was a proponent of a communist society free from central government and based on voluntary associations between workers. He wrote many books, pamphlets and articles, the most prominent being The Conquest of Bread and Fields, Factories and Workshops, and his principal scientific offering, Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution. He also contributed the article on anarchism to the Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition.
COMMIE DIE FUCK YOU WE DEFEATED CHINESE COMMIES LONG AGO YOUR NOT WELCOME BETTER DEAD THAN RED COMMIES BTFO IN MALAYA WE WON AGAINST COMMIES AHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHHA
Zachary Hernandez
No thanks.
Evan Hughes
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Nathan Long
Good morning european comrades.
Samuel Lopez
commie shills are so LOW ENERGY
Zachary Gray
why these threads dont get deleted
Angel Jones
part 2
Hunter Harris
WE'RE COMING BUCKOS
Ayden Garcia
>her face when you don't tell her you're right wing
Nathan Garcia
Fuck Leftists
Tyler Garcia
Get cucked faggot
Carter Gomez
>her face after you tell her you're right wing
Blake Mitchell
i dont care about leftyspam
all it does is give us more opportunities to tell them how fucking stupid they are
>Communism is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money,[3][4] and the state.[5][6]
So why has this never been achieved, despite political parties rising to power in 50 countries promising this? Because it's fucking retarded and doesn't work. It always turns into a strongman dictatorship, because the fairytale version of communism is filled with internal contradictions and doesn't work.
It's like saying, let's build a society where people flap their arms and fly to the moon every weekend. Call it "moonism". Then when it fails to happen, you say "moonism has never been tried". Well of course not, because it's retarded
Jackson Bennett
So this is the power of communism.... damn....
Easton Young
KILL YOURSELF FAGGOT
Colton Brown
>"b-b-but it wasn't true m-marxism!" Dont you get tired of being a loser, achmed?
Evan Williams
>d-don't you want to help me repopulate the white race, user-kun? >h-how can we do that when you're a white race hating socialist lurking in /leftypol/?
Jaxson Jenkins
I've known jew bros, mexican bros, etc - but they were all working class (don't really cotton to niggers myself) but I've never known a bro who was super-rich
Carson Peterson
>Anarkiddies will defend this
Grayson Flores
More like it worked exactly as intended: trick dumbfucks who have been demoralized for an entire generation into submitting to modern slavery and believing it is a utopia because a super powerful authoritarian government controls every single aspect of people's lives and indoctrinates through blatantly unreal propaganda, propaganda such as gender is a social construct, Islam is a religion of peace, if we kill our enemies they will win, and Fidel Castro was a man of the people, especially the gays.
Commies need to learn about how the original communist movements were funded and started, most of them were bankrolled by western bankers (the richest capitalists).
well if your serious someone explain to me that super sweet brand of communism that hasnt been tried yet that i keep hearing about, and also explain how it wouldn't just devolve into what we've already seen
Tyler Bell
there's nothing wrong with Marxism-Leninism
Ayden Clark
Not true. Every system got their ups and downs, but you should be able to describe the strength and weakness of Marxism-Leninism and why it's different from the other isms.
Robert Jenkins
Why on earth would they keep us alive when we will serve no purpose. In Straw Dogs by John Grey, humans are described at one point as being a plague species. The book describes people as being animals, which is scientifically correct. If you view humans as merely animals, then why not follow the course that you would with a plague of locusts. The end of scarcity will be the end of usefulness and probably the end of a good segment of the population.
