OK Sup Forums, explain to me why being a civic nationalist is wrong?

OK Sup Forums, explain to me why being a civic nationalist is wrong?

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It's not, my wifes son is a civic nationalist.

When a civil nationalist watched BLACKED.com they just see americans having sex, nothing degenerate

People make the country, not the other way around. Sweden will no longer be a 1st world country will all the niggers it is importing, same can be said for any other country.

Flood Japan with Pakis, it is no longer Japanese.

Civic nationalism will not allow hoards of third worlders to come

Trump is a civic nationalist

it's not enough to stop the flow of more, you have to get rid of the ones that are already here

Civic nationalism is just coded rhetoric
You fucks are just luring in the public because they don't know what the fuck they are talking about in the first place

Good way to get cucked by Jews.

Or should I say stay cucked

>they j-just don.. don't know about classical liberalism

>they are just like us, we just need mo programs


every civic nationalist knows the truth, they just won't let go of universalism

its just a matter of time

They came here for the gibs. We take away the gibs, they self deport. Simple as that.

not true, take away welfare, do you really think blacks will leave civilization to go live in Africa?

it's simple, OP. Civic nationalism is wrong because MUH FEELS. we only care about MUH FEELS here on Sup Forums now, did you hear? LARPy ethnonationalism is just alt right identity politics.

these teenagers will tell you with a straight face that classical greece and rome were degenerate multicultural shitholes. it's a hoot.

They might go to countries with welfare.

Enjoy immigration from Detroit lol.

poor people usually can't even afford to leave their state, let alone an expensive exodus from their country

there is literally no difference between civic nationalism and neo-Conservative cucks

TRS is retarded and thinks civic nationalism is liberalism. There's nothing about it that mandates a country to accept anyone or stop them from deporting illegal citizens or even requiring that you parents be legal residents for your birth citizenship be valid.

Muh de sangue citizenship that ethnos preach is actually fine with women mixing and having half-breeds, they'd still be legal citizens. They're retarded, and as evidenced by Spencer, complete idiots who can't even argue against WE WUZ KANGS retards.

How much do you get paid to shill this movie?

All you are doing is running from the problem, and eventually the problem will find you.

Rome lasted and conquered a fuck lot more than any ethno state.

Rome also willfully deported immigrants and slaughtered invaders for hundreds of years.

>deport immigrants
Not incompatible with civic nationalism, especially if they're criminals (ie illegals).

>Slaughtered invaders
Nothing about this is incompatible with civic nationalism. You retards can't argue your way out of a paper bag, Christ.

You conflate nationalism that doesn't have a genetic purity requirement with liberalism. Evola isn't good enough for you, even though your entire rejection of liberalism is founded on his arguments.

Explain what is happening in Europe then.

>civic nationalist

Is this the meme of the week or something? There's something artificial about how all of a sudden people are using the terms "civic nationalism" and "ethnic nationalism" almost as if it's orchestrated. If you asked me I would say that the powers that be are starting to genuinely fear the growing nationalism in the west and now want to convince nationalists you can still be open-border, pro-immigration, "civic" nationalists.

Nothing about civic nationalism is open border shit, fucking Christ. Regular FASCISTS would be called civic nationalists by you morons.

But it's entirely consistent with the sort of third world immigration big business wants.

What civic nationalists are for open-border and pro-immigration from shithole where people don't have the IQ or the cultural capacity to understand Western values?

All ethnic nationalism will do is alienate those who are already living in the West that share your cultural values. It's funny because it's the ethnic nationalists that divides the citizenry for the kike to exploit. The only difference between a civic and ethnic nationalist is that civic nationalist will accept anyone willing to die for Western value regardless of race.

If you think "Western values" can be extracted from the historical context and be carried, like a flame, by an entirely separate people, you're just plain wrong.

I should add, the whole concepts reminds me of Indians educated at Oxford who debate about John Stuart Mill. It's a sad joke. Every thread someone says "There are niggers and then there are black people" I'll think of you.

It's not white

You can't be a Civic Nationalist. That's called being a Patriot.

Nationalism has an Ethnic connotation. The Greeks are a Nation, because they're all Greeks.

What you're claiming is that certain ideals can only be carried by a certain group of people. That is the most asinine claim i've ever heard LOL.

Obviously values are to be understood in the context of its history, but once it's understood, it can be carried by anyone with the spirit and mind mature and strong enough to handle it.

alright youtube

We need to repeal the immigration act of 1965, and then use all the money saved from that to buy these people plane tickets to Canada

because Sup Forumstards are convinced that race and culture are the same thing.

Ideas exist only in thought. The West isn't an idea, or built on ideas, it's tangible. You can vist the cathedrals, the castles, the places were the Earth was moved, dug up, built up. You can walk the streets of the West's cities where the events of history occurred. Those places, when they're filled with Arabs and Africans, occupied by foreign aliens (which you would erroneously call citizens) will not continue to be Western. Being able to understand an idea is not the same thing and making it a reality, just as knowing the blueprints to a house to is not a sufficient condition for making the house a reality. You need materials of the proper sort, and the West's house can't be maintained or rebuilt using materials grown elsewhere, under different conditions, and adapted for other purposes.

Yeah man, that's why Islam never spread to Asia, and why Christianity never entered into the South American mindset. Those ideas could only be truly understood by their progenitors. That's why all the priests are fucking Israeli.

And? That means fuck all if you're a nationalist, period.

You need to take a trip, or at least watch a documentary, if you think that those ideas are expressed uniformly across the world.

The Catholic Church is pretty consistent with itself globally. A spic even runs it now.

If you're willing in theory to call anyone from anywhere an American just because they moved to your country, I can't see why that would even count as nationalism. It's the sort of nationalism a globalist would promote since it's identical in practice.

Civic nationalism dies alongside the leader. Ethnic nationalism dies with the movement and race

Nothing wrong with it. Sup Forums just needs a new enemy now the left are destroying themselves.

They're uniform enough to give a shit about each other, which is what Civic Nationalism is actually about.

>anyone
Try again. The difference is that my restriction isn't entirely based on ethnicity. I would take a Japanese engineer over a toilet scrubbing Pole.

lol what?

It frankly looks pretty silly when non-Western cultures adopt Western institutions. Proselytizing is in the DNA of religion, but it shouldn't be a goal of nationalism. Nothing is gained by it.

A Chinese Christian that actually suffers persecution in the face of the state is much more Christian than some whore in Ohio who blows her degenerate boyfriend after Sunday school. What's silly is claiming ethnic ownership over a religion created by Jewish prophets.

There's nothing wrong with civic nationalism. Purist ethno nationalism is a meme that holds no basis in reality. There will always be some diversity and intermingling in large civilizations, the difference is that it shouldn't be unnaturally forced in a short span of time.

No, Asian Christendom is cool and I support it

They think civic nationalism is liberalism because american civic nationalist are CLASSIC LIBERALS. Anyone who is a constitutionalist, republican, progressive, liberal, or republican is a CLASSICAL LIBERAL. Their "ideology" is rooted in late 1700's judeo-masonic enlightenment.

They are critical of the whole system of classical liberalism, or at the very least skeptical of it.

Civic nationalist seek to rewind the tape of liberalism to the 1940's and 50's, yet get mad when the tape plays out the same way.

The (classical) liberal notion of universalism is completely bunk.

I'm curious what advantage there is to having a multiethnic state as opposed to a cooperative alliance between different ethnic states. The ultimate outcome is a single multiethnic worldwide state. And that's what globalism is.

The problem with the way civic nationalist frame deportation is they only center it around illegals or criminals. When really, the same problems will continue to persist because it is not addressing the true root of the problem. That being the genetic, ethnic, and demographic roots of the problem.

Great you deported all of the illegals and criminals. Its still an economic scheme to drive down the value of labor with low IQ low agency non assimilatable minorities.

Go read Bowling Alone, that study debunks the very notion of multiculturalist civic nationalist.

as long as they are honorary aryans or european in reasonable numbers its fine

the rest have to go back

>a cooperative alliance between different ethnic states
How exactly are you supposed to have cooperation between a bunch of groups of people who each think that all the other groups are inferior to them in every way? This shit barely worked in WW2, and a lot of people would say that it didn't work at all, since the Axis lost the war. Badly. Why would it go differently this time?

A Chinese Christian that suffers persecution for their religion is a fool. I have the same disdain for New Age baby boomers who coopt eastern religions. They're both doing the same thing.

Though I agree with your last statement on intermingling, and it is autistic to try and enforce no intermingling. I think your premise is completely wrong.

What are chinatowns? What are little kabuls? What are little italy's? Are they not a forced ethno-segregation? That even when in a multicultural environment these groups all still self segregate therefore debunking the whole idea of multiculturalism?

diversity+proximity= conflict

jesus fucking christ when did this place become r/thedonald

Because a nation is more than just it's economy.

A nation is it's people, and the people are the nation. Removing people for the sake of the economy is something that nationalists take no complaint with, because the ends are the same.

However, society for the large part is just as important as just the economics of it. The people of the nation should be protected, not just their money. If a nation of people is a certain race, and has certain ideals, then they are the ones that must be taken care of, by limiting the amount of other groups in that country. This goes for all countries as well. I don't just support nationalism for my own country, but every country. I support British nationalism, Indian nationalism, Chinese nationalism, everything. Every person should have a country of their own, filled with others like them, and their government should focus on the needs of those people, while expecting that person to take part in the support of their own nation.

In case there are any impressionable newfags reading this, the in-group bias manifests on a sociological scale as nationalism in all ethnic groups and causes unavoidable friction on racial lines. It's instinctual and it's documented science you can read for yourself.

Therefore diversity is bad if there is nothing good that outweighs these problems, and there is no argument for or quantifiable benefits of diversity and multiculturalism. Therefore diversity is bad and ethnostates are good.

Assimilation does not work. If anything it worked better back in the 50s and earlier when minorities actually had to work, but now they don't because they have welfare and liberals.

Not remotely true. Read Durgin, Evola, etc instead of listening to that fag Spencer.

Inferiority never enters the picture. Where do you get that from. If I keep my pasta sauce in one jar and my strawberry jam in another, neither has to be inferior to the other. I don't see why an loose alliance of Western nations based on shared culture and history isn't possible. I don't see why the better alternative is to mix the whole world up into a bunch of arbitrarily defined nations, or one nation.

Every European was a fool then. Find Christ, heathen.

Wtf? Spencer doesn't even say this shit you retard.

Evola was completely opposed to enlightenment/masonic ideas such as universalism.

and I assume you mean Alexander Dugin who has a fucking book about trying to stop atlanticist liberalism.

come on

>likes Evola
>calls others fags
Kek

Some people believe in things because they think they're true instead of a thing they were just born into culturally.

>classical greece and rome were degenerate multicultural shitholes
I have literally never seen a post talking shit about these two nations in particular.
And Ancient Greek city states were almost always citizen by birth with few exceptions so I don't know why you'd want to use them as an example of civic nationalism.

>how are you supposed to cooperate
Comparative advantage? exchange programs? not putting missiles on each others borders? not jewing each other in trade? respecting borders? sharing technology?

Its like you're advocating for CIA regime change hyper capitalism as the only way of order on the globe.

I have never met a single ethno-nationalist who did not consider his race to be superior to all the others. People on here scream about "leaf this" and "ahmed that", and they're talking to other white people, and mostly white nationalists. If you don't think this shit would devolve into tribalistic murder-sprees immediately, you haven't looked at the history. Niggers didn't cause all of those 18th and 19th century european wars. Your line of thinking did.

No, that's why we need to offer them 5 grand each and pay for the one-way plane ticket.

Yes, he does you goddamn retard. Muh magic dirt and the intellectualization of cuckservative are his most popular articles.

>Evola was completely opposed to enlightenment/masonic ideals
Good job reading the wiki into, now read his book. He makes no distinction of citizenship based solely on ethnicity. He believed in the power of the state as the ultimate unifier.

>Dugin
Who even said the Nazis were retarded for expanding traditionalism into ethnicity, an overreach without intellectual foundation.

Seriously fucking read where you faggots parrot ideas.

Guess fascism is for fags. Great post.

The irony of Sup Forums celebrating Pinochet with helicopter memes and advocating ethno nationalism is really too much to grasp.

Nobody is "just born" into something. You're not suggesting you can be born in another time and place, are you? You didn't float around and then get plopped into a random body. It's necessary that you're born into the culture you're born into, just like your physical existence is determined by your parents' DNA. Treating your culture like a disposable and optional article of clothing is like treating your flesh and blood that way.

They're so desperate to be le edgy right-wing, they overlook the fact he was measurably shit at leading

>Ideas exist only in thought.
You just proved my point then lol. This statement is true, which is precisely why "Western" values, which are ideals, can be adopted by anyone with the mind and heart for it.
>The West isn't an idea, or built on ideas.
Every culture and things are built on ideas.
>You can walk the streets of the West's cities where the events of history occurred
Yea, all of which has the same shitty history of monarchy, oligarchy, etc etc. It wasn't until the recent few centuries where ideals of freedom from old dogmatic thinking emerged.
>Those places, when they're filled with Arabs and Africans, occupied by foreign aliens (which you would erroneously call citizens) will not continue to be Western.
If they uphold the values of Western civilization, such as freedom of speech, second amendment, and all the other values enshrined in the Constitution, it will be just as good.
>Being able to understand an idea is not the same thing and making it a reality.
If you understand something you can make it a reality.

You first claim ethnicity is tied to ideals, which i then pointed out to be absurd which you agreed because ideas only exist in thought.

You're conflating shallow cultural sites, history, events, and aspects, with Western civilization. Western civilization isn't built on any of the shit you mentioned, it's built on getting away from the ways of old. You can't have it both ways, you say ideas exist only in thought, but claim somehow a culture and civilization is not built on ideas, which is demonstrably false. If the West isn't built on set of ideals, what makes it great? If it wasn't for its values, West would be just a shithole it always was before the recent turn of history.

I have no problem with having China towns, especially in big cities. You can still hold on too an Italian identity or Asian Identity while having a larger American identity

>The Catholic Church is pretty consistent with itself globally
You have no idea what you're talking about.
houstonpress.com/news/santa-muerte-know-your-narco-saints-6595551
To have someone adopt a culture they need to be raised from birth and identify with those people.
And different races with few exceptions will not identify more strongly with another than their own.

I think you take this site too seriously if you view banter as genuine hatred. In any case, it's not true that superiority is a necessary element of ethnonationalism. I just gave you an example of how it might go. We are at a point in history where it is more likely than ever before, at least.

Hm I guess this is why Evola was more fond of italian fascism, and wasn't hitlers biggest fan.

Thanks user, and yes I am aware of Dugin's criticisms of Nazi Germany- why are correct.

To walk back on my point, I do think some form of civic nationalism can work, just not with low iq shit skin populations.

Religion and spirituality deals with the nature of reality, and isn't something that's culturally subjective.

Hang out with me in alt-right threads more, then. Kids are super easy to manipulate into saying all sorts of cringey shit, it's like a goddam Always Sunny episode.
First off, a pretty small fraction of the residents of any given city state were citizens. Secondly, any classical greek would tell you that to be greek simply meant to speak the language and participate in the culture; there were separate ethnic identities and they were completely secondary to Greekness.

So black americans should go around robbing and shooting people because some fuckhead rapper told them it was cool? Or would you rather have them at least attempt to make something of themselves, and pretend to be civilized?

i look like styx IRL, sound like styx IRL, and am a practicing occultist. he's such a tryhard know-nothing fag, he always deletes my comments on his youtube videos. makes me want to get a damn haircut.

>memes

And that's all it is you fucking autistic. Do you hear anyone saying "Wow Pinochet was such a good leader, why can't we have a new Pinochet?". we just go "He threw commies out of helicopters? Based.".

>have cooperation between a bunch of groups of people who each think that all the other groups are inferior to them in every way
M8, nationalism doesn't equal supremacy. And tons of white American soldiers felt supremacy to the black soldiers with them.
And pretending the Germans lost because of ideology as opposed to say having to fight against the 3 most powerful nations on the world on their own.

Do you have special loyalty to your family? If yes, does that mean you feel superior to all other families?

I said that the expression of ideas is possible under the right material circumstances. Culture in its tangible element is like a body following the plan set out by ideas; there is no reason to think that the matter that comprises an oak tree is suitable for the idea of a dog. When you have foreign aliens try to live out Western ideas the product is not Western culture, it's a corruption that misuses the material and insults the idea.

Because your population will look like and have the same iq as the guy in your pic.

It was a mistake to found a country with imported Black slaves. Your country is fractured and will always be fractured. The best course of action (it won't happen) would be to have an independent black nation. There are constitutional and other reasons this won't happen and couldn't (and shouldn't) be enforced.

My family doesn't look over the fence and see a bunch of coal and oil, that can be ours, if only we march over the fence, and take it. If that were a possibility, I imagine my dad would probably spend some time convincing me that the other families were shit, and that my family deserved all their stuff. You know, like the entire history of europe.

its free they pay to have the rapies imported

Religion is a human construction of the divine. It may have a spiritual truth that is transcendent, but its practices and traditions are indeed embedded in culture.

>to be greek simply meant to speak the language and participate in the culture
To be Greek, but to be Athenian or Spartan you had to be born from one.
and frankly the genetic difference between Greeks and Macedonians or the other nearby nations was negligible so there was no reason for racial divisions.
But Arabs had racial identification because they dealt with blacks and Caucasians who looked very different than them.

This

Yeah no. Nothing personal but fuck off. Demographic is destiny. The West isn't a vague set of cultural values. The West is the specific product of a specific set of people (read: DNA) who made it up. It is the product of a people who lived in Europe during the last glacial age and as a result of living in such a harsh environment evolved an above average IQ and level of social cohesion. These traits also happen to be perfect to successfully run and maintain highly developed and complex societies that we call "The West."

I don't care if a non-white is decent/smart/honest/whatever. He is an exception, not the rule. If it were the rule they wouldn't have had the need to leave their shitty homelands in the first place. Any child he'll have will regress to the mean of his race IQ and social skills. He is bringing his homeland with him. Truth is the best life a non-white can ever hope to have is being a small minority in a white dominated country.

Race is real. Culture is tied to race. Western culture subsists on a set of people. The fact that we have to have this discussion with you is proof you don't belong to this set.

Sup Forums doesn't do non-hyperbole

Tell me when you feel like it's Christmas

youtube.com/watch?v=MQ4LaH5nreU

>Their "ideology" is rooted in late 1700's judeo-masonic enlightenment.

Right, we need to get rid of the ideals that made whites a global power.

Most white nationalists here are just civic nationalists that don't want non-white immigrants coming into their country. America can't have ethnic nationalism because America was made up of various white ethnic groups. This includes Anglos, Irish, French, Germans, Italians, Russians et cetera. If you went to any of those countries and asked if another country had the same ethnic group, they would all distinguish themselves from another and claim to be completely different.

>possible under the right material circumstances.
The one and ONLY circumstance an expression of idea requires is if enough people subscribe to that idea and act on it. That is it. There are no other requirements or circumstances needed.
>Culture in its tangible element is like a body following the plan set out by ideas.
I pointed out the flaw in your line of thinking so you backpedal. You just contradicted yourself since you said "The West isn't an idea, or built on ideas."

If you have another group of people living out these ideas, the product is a free society. The customs will be different sure, and nobody would care if it's considered Western or not, because it would be just as good a place to live in. The only thing that insults these ideas is to think that ideas are linked to ethnic group when you admitted ideas exist only in thoughts. Again, you can't have it both ways with all your contradictions and mental gymnastics.

Either,
>Ideas can and only be used by certain group of people to create "Western civilization"
or
>Ideas only exist in thought, and anyone with the thought and idea can create a free and prosperous society.

Pick one.

The US being multicultural hasn't stopped it from starting wars every few years.
Kingnig is still starting wars.
Poland the evil nationalist hasn't started any for a really long time.

>1 post by this ID

You're not even interested in debate.

>2ZWPooX2

nice proxy baljeet

greece is at a crossroads. after the late bronze age collapse around 800BC, many ethnic groups from around the eastern mediterranean ended up in the region during the greek dark ages. by the time the golden age began, the area had received several different influxes of invaders, most notoriously the dorians. athens and sparta were not provincial settlements with unchanging populations.
whether or not you think there were no need for racial divisions, they're attested to plenty in the primary sources. they're just considered secondary to nationality.

Becuz muh racecuck and muh brown people are near me.