Why are you still idealist, /pol?

Accept philosophical materialism masterrace.
You know it's true.

That pic is false

elaborate, friend

Search within and you to shall know the truth.

As above so below

Then why don't all people find the same thing inside?
Why are there so many different interpretations of this inner experience?

Because then the experience would be meaningless.

This is one of the toughest, most difficult red pills, that not even 90% of Sup Forums is willing to swallow. Consciousness is not even a thing separate from the rest of the body. Even atheists can struggle with this concept. It is also what leads to the almost complete destruction of free will.

Materialism as OP describes is a gnostic theological viewpoint.

The truest red pill is pure agnosticism, to recognized the limits of what you can actually know in the first place.

wouldn't it be more meaningful and real if it was a universal experience, that we could all agree on?
Then we could make dcisions based on that shared knowledge.

it's about having a reason to believe anything about consciousness.
I can't think of any examples of consciousness existing outside of a living brain, can you?
So why should I believe it's possible?

Still warps back to the fact that we are 100% unable to find consciousness outside of ourselves, and empirically we have absolutely no reason to believe we ever would, or that it is even theoretically possible.

no, it wouldn't , we are distinct entities commie, learn to live with it

I'm German

Is it possible to rape a philosophical materialist? I mean, what objection could they possibly have to yielding to strength and will?

schwine

>tfw you went to high school with a bunch of lowlife drug addicts and Turks

>Materialism as OP describes is a gnostic theological viewpoint.
How?

...

>materialism imlies amoralism
>morality comes from.....
try harder faggot, my pets have a sense of fairness(try having 2 dogs, and just giving a treat to one of them), that's the roots of morality

Hard materialism is idiot tier pleb philosophy.
>Why?
Because you're subjectively perceiving even your hardest, strictest measurements of physical phenomena. Subjective experience is the _only_ thing we can know for sure exists.

>muh electrical signals in matter account for subjective experience
No, moron. Even if we knew which part of the brain represented which subjective detail of our experience, we still couldn't explain the experience of qualia itself using purely materialist concepts.

>You lost me, sven, I've got shit genes and can't understand stuff.
What "material" or "canvas" does "redness" or "pain" project upon? Not the firing neurons (which are objectively measurable material phenomena), but the subjective perception itself - the experience of "smell of grass" or "wetness". Whatever it is, it is not material.

Materialism BTFO

Are you seriously arguing that materialism is wrong because ideas and concepts exist?

>tfw you will never have a traditional 18th century unshaven qt to bring you your mustache wax and beat your waistcoat with her dusting iron

>I don't understand the difference between the concept of pain and the physical sensation of pain.

I am talking about the sensation. Not the concept. Sensation is purely subjective, and evidently exists. You can prove this yourself by slamming your head into your keyboard. That pain is subjective, even if material neurons are firing.

Qualia is psuedoscience, a bullshit term invented by idealists to support their stance.
>Mary the Color Scientist
please, if by definition she knew EVERYTHING about color in this thought experiment, she would LITERALLY have nothing to learn by seeing color for the first time.

So?

Just because the mind is greater than the sum of its meat parts doesn't mean that there's some kind of other realm

Emergent properties aren't incompatible with materialism

>ywn write books about pure love that drive dozens of betas into suicide while fucking all the bitches in town

you were on to something then kinda lost it.
The pain is part of the measured, physical stuff. Whether I cried or wanted to push through it is also physical. Whether I learned from it is physical. How I feel about it after initial bodily reactions is the subjective part, but may just be nature and nuture and you had no control.

max par
>tfw you are an extremely faithful Christian whose work inspires generations of materialist existentialists

Why do you care, we have no free will. It doesn't matter my stupid friend.

materialism is reddit tier

go read a book on the history of philosophy pleb

>sophist detected

I think your mind is limited to the capabilities of your brain.

I also think knowledge without specialization is eventually harmful, as you have too many disconnected idea's that never form a relationship, and leave you in a state of disillusion, untrust and disbelief.

Your brain has limited capability, and a limited lifespan. It can be damaged, much like a harddrive. Your reality only exists within the limits of your brain.

Idealism is not incompatible with materialism

> Different definitions of physical and subjective
I am only speaking about subjectivity in the sense that it is not externally measurable, but produces a sensation from a first-person perspective.

Defined like this, pain as well as thought are subjective processes - of course they (or at least their shape) are reliant on neural activity and so on, but this activity is not the experience, just like the roll of tape is not the movie.

>disillusion, untrust and disbelief
welcome to philosophy
there are no answers here, only terrifying questions

>ywn ghost a girl that truly loves you, avoid her at every possible instance, spread rumors about you cheating on her, tell her that she is nothing more than a replaceable little fucktoy, drive her to the edge of despair just because that cunt is so annoying that you just can't get shit done anymore

There are no questions friend. Just acceptance. It doesn't matter if you're a determinist or a probabilist there's only the illusion of choice.

Learn to be happy with your lack of choice.

>tfw when women are frightened by your godly mustache, so you go to brothels and get syphillis
>tfw you see a horse getting whipped in the street, so you run up to it, embrace it, and dance naked back home

Opinions on nihilism?

I'm ok with it, making a decision with too many options is a crippling experience

Well, I can't argue with existential nihilism.
Not to say I like the idea, but I've made my peace with it.

Buddhists got close to the answer.

>Buddhism
get that meme out of here

>computer experts, theoretical, and quantum physicists put a 1 to a 1,000,000,000 chance we are not in a simulation
>observation of the laws of physics at the micro level, break all laws of our fundamental understanding of the universe
>fedora lords who accomplish nothing with their lives, masturbate to the idea that science is somehow on "their side" and a make claims of equally, if not more so, based on faith in things which require circular logic

Having this much of a axe to grind isn't a triumph of reason, but baggage from some kind of emotional damage from childhoods past.

Nihilism as defined as not believing anything has a inherent meaning?
Yeah, pretty much any educated person must have a version of this

But "Nihilism" as a childish way to say why you should have no values is bullshit

A stupid belief for lazy people.

Buddhism is defeatist.
Their goal is the elimination of desire.
Desire is what leads people to do great things.
This is bad.
Prove me wrong
>protip:you might be able to, I'm just spitballing here

...

He says in a philosophy thread.

Okay, if you accept materialism, what objective purpose is there is life, then?

I meant in terms choice they got it right. If you only have hotdogs in your fridge no money to get anything else those hotdogs are the perfect choice. Desire in that case would just cause you suffering, thinking of some good fried chicken for example or any food you'd rather have.

If you accept you have no choice what you do have is perfect.

The rest of their fluff is stupid like most religions.

If we are in a simulation, why does it matter what we do with our lives?
What's the difference between an essentially meaningless existence and being in a simulation?
We still have to act like it's the real thing, so this argument is moot.

I don't accept materialism. But if we rely on our cognitive ability to make judgments about the universe, while at the same time accepting that our cognitive ability has been created/shaped by said universe and its forces; we thereby cannot make statements about its pointlessness, without also rendering our said judgments useless.

While a non-nihilist cannot for certain point to purpose, a real nihilist can't even take the first logical step without undermine their argument.

True, but doesn't that defeat the desire to go out and do something to get that good fried chicken?
And isn't the completion of goals a true source of happiness?

But if we incapable about making judgements about the universe isn't saying that we unable to make those judgements a judgement in itself?

To be serious, if we were really so limited would we be able to entertain that idea?

>when the body dies, so does the brain

no shit

Only if you accept the premise of nihilism, does a judgement call become pointless and rely on circular logic on step 1.

Every other philosophy can at least make it to step 2.

because the "shaping" is done from the bottom up,not the top down.
Our existence is not teleological, but has evolved.
So there is no reason, with the benefits of measuring instruments and the input and agreement of others, that we cannot reasonably move forward with the premise that stuff exists and is governed by the laws that we all observe.

it can be >A< source of happiness or better yet, fulfillment.

Correct me if my dumb ass is wrong but the point of eliminating desire is that most suffering is derived from desire? therefore without desire suffering is extinguished or at least very limited

>I CANT MEASURE OR FIND CONSCIOUSNESS IT DOESNT EXIST
>YOU CANT REDUCE SUBJECTIVE PHENOMENA MATERIALISM IS BULLSHIT

I'm saying none of you actually know at all. It's just one of life's unyielding mysteries and until it's recognized as such you're blue pilled.

yah, it should say "so does the mind"

Yeah, that's exactly the idea.
At its root, it says don't do anything to improve your lot, when you can accept that it's not so bad.

neuroscience is making the mystery yield little by little
Consciousness is a bag of tricks, consider the blind spot in your vision (plenty of youtube videos that illustrate it)

How something is shaped, does not make it inherently correct.

Evolutions failures, and it's "irrational brains" are just as justified in a nihilists philosophy.

My irrational brain making irrational arguments are as valid as any nihilists "logical thinking" simply because there's essentially a zero value difference.

I was hard, but reading OPs spoiled the mood

I agree with that, and I say we create meaning for our own lives with our monkeybrains, not that meaning is taken from somewhere else, or exists in the realm of ideas
This is subjective meaning for each person, because no objective meaning can be found.

sorry, bruv
>this should help

Then there is no objective reason to accept nihilism or materialism. including the idea of subjective value.

maybe not, but there is no argument against it either.

nihilism that is, not materialism
Materialism is unassailable, unless you posit a supernatural force.

Yes there is. IF you accept the premise, then you must admit it's a subjective acceptance devoid of inherent truth.

A zealot making unprovable claims.... Is more logically consistent then a nihilist making contradictory claims.

I don't think nihilism is objectively true, but i think it sums up the situation pretty well.
More logically consistent, yes, but I think all of life and existence is full of contradiction and paradox, so maybe consistency is not the ultimate goal.

Why would you prefer nihilism over a purposeful life? It seems like a bad deal.

I have a lot of purpose in my life, but it has purpose because I decided it did, not in an objective sense.
Does it really matter in the whole of history whether my dogs get their shots?
probably not, but I do it, and I feel good about taking care of my pets

You don't get to choose the things you believe in

Nihilism isn't the philosophy of the self. Find a better word.

I'm not a nihilist.
We've been talking about existential nihilism, which is the stand that there is no objective meaning to life.
Can anyone provide one, other than the will of a deity? I haven't heard it.

>the material world is all that exists because my subjective sensory experience tells me so
materialists are retarded especially because they think they are being logical

I can communicate with other minds, who report the same things, I can use instruments to measure the real world. I feel confident enough taking the bold, radical stance that the universe exists.

There are arguments for the will deity.

The only arguments I usually here against, are ones that insist they are the logically consistent ones(which we have just discussed the flaws).

If its just equally comes down to faith in there not being a deity, maybe that people should just outright state it instead of playing the "objective truth" game.

faith is the substance of things hoped for
That's the point, I don't prefer a meaningless existence, but i am stuck with it, as are we all.

Perhaps, you are false.

BLUEPILL THE THREAD

>OP claims to be a hard materialist
>Argues with pseudo-philosophy and ideals
Adolescent detected. Take your edgy and intellectually lazy ideas to reddit, they'll love you.