What next, Sup Forums

Kurzweil is right in that acceleration of technological change, well beyond our ability to derail it, is a reality. He's made some very good predictions but he fails to grasp this is actually bad. People like him have a religious optimism about a hallucinated end point. Technology is permanent revolution, changing everything.

History is increasingly a poor guide to the future. Look at the magnitude of change in the past century. To say there's even remote consensus on recent world history is laughable. We've had all of human existence to answer some very basic questions, our deepest and most important ones, that we are still no closer on. Much of what is happening now is beyond anyone's grasp, and will continue to elude us further as it complexifies. Everything is more unprecedented as each moment passes, the only thing we can predict is that it will be unpredictable.

We have no idea what we're doing, and no way to know, and no way to slow things down to the point where we can catch our breath and figure it out, before it changes again. We don't understand consciousness at all, we don't have a good sociology or psychology yet, not even close. Scientists preach anti-philosophy while science is in crisis. Philosophy, and all our institutions, are also in crisis.

We have absolutely no idea what the effects of being born into social media, its full and total integration, are going to be, nor the Panoptic Big Data algorithmic surveillance state that is emerging. These changes alter what we are seeking to observe under our feet, by altering our language, our shared meanings, our consciousness, our institutions, the power dynamics, the social fabric. This subtly alters what is sayable, what is thinkable. It's entering our brains more and more directly, and scientists can't even imagine why this might be a bad idea.

There is no escape, and no amount of reading, art, "legitimate" discourse, political organizing, browsing Sup Forums or ayahuasca is going to change that.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetics
youtube.com/watch?v=W8N3FF_3KvU
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble
pastebin.com/f54AG18Q
news.stanford.edu/2014/04/24/walking-vs-sitting-042414/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

>There is no escape
become Amish

>Kurzweil is right in that acceleration of technological change, well beyond our ability to derail it, is a reality

No, he is not, all you morons will disappear after the next tech bubble explodes all over your face

>There is no escape, and no amount of ... ayahuasca is going to change that.

Sounds like you need to take your own advice.

I have though this same thing as well, while on acid

Well OK, say it doesn't accelerate. It's still pretty fast. If you regulate something one place, someone else will get around it, and governments will have to assume other governments are looking into it secretly. Regulators can't know the details of everything, and their possible expertise gets more limited every day. Regulatory process is inefficient, slow and ineffective as it is. They get whole bills ghostwritten for them by industry and other consortia now, and it's totally unreasonable to expect them to be experts on even one of the areas they regulate, if expertise were even reliable any more. The only way to stop this would be some hypothetical one world government, which isn't realistic or desirable. Completely freeing the markets would put this into overdrive.

>There is no escape, and no amount of reading, art, "legitimate" discourse, political organizing, browsing Sup Forums or ayahuasca is going to change that.

My assessment is that the inherent problems humanity have are genetic. We no longer live in the world we evolved to match. I feel the only way for peace and stability to occur in a reasonable amount of time is mass sterilization of low quality people, mass cloning of high quality genetics, or full on genetic engineering.

Contemporary liberalism is insane, agreed? They've completely gone off the deep end, no matter how educated, how intelligent, how available all knowledge and alternative views from around the world, from people of every walk of life. To the extent the elite establishment, the intelligentsia and culture industry, have effectively subverted themselves, and are behaving in increasingly irrational and bizarre ways. They've effectively subverted themselves. Why would an autistic meme ideology reverse this?

Proofs?

Peace and stability don't stop the irreversible alteration of what it means to be human. Your solution is a symptom of the problem.

>well beyond our ability to derail it
Don't be so sure user.

>There is no escape, and no amount of reading, art, "legitimate" discourse, political organizing, browsing Sup Forums or ayahuasca is going to change that.

escape to where?
what is trapping you?

>Regulatory process is inefficient

I do believe your fears are substantiated though, but the answer for that fear is starting to learn to regulate your most local environments in a concentric-circle fashion

Start by you, then your family, your pets, your house, your friends, your neighborhood, your city, your province, your nation

You do this by setting up feedback systems and correcting the action to accomodate for the new feedbacks

"Know thyself" was actually literal, you are supposed to write the shit you do every day and plan your future actions in regard with this, like they do in gyms with all those charts and taking note of how many repetitions you are getting currently and changing the excercise system to reflect this abundance/lack of growth and focus on underdeveloped areas while slowly raising the lower range for the overdeveloped ones, you can even plot graphs and all sort of growth visualizations with this info

>If you regulate something one place, someone else will get around it
Nope, most of modern research requires such ungodly amounts of resources and rare shit, it is breddy easy to shut it down

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetics


also, thanks kek

This seems like again, the same problem. I don't think Big Data panoptic surveillance of every minute detail of absolutely everything is going to be healthy.

>There is no escape

This is defeatism, pure and simple. You raise some legitimate concern with your points of how quickly the rate of technology is advancing and that our efforts to adequately understand them is not up to speed. But I think it's incorrect to think that life will somehow go down a negative spiral just because of the points you bring up. There will always be varying degrees of how well humanity adapts to its' problems.

If we indeed have so little understanding of "basic" things, what makes you say we can't eventually solve them? Maybe you just can't comprehend the possibilities of such solutions yet. Are there multiple universes out there, and do we exist infinitely on all of them? Can you definitively disprove that we do not? Just because it's implausible for you to conceive that humanity in our current universe cannot accomplish what you want it to, do you honestly discount the possibility that humanity will NEVER accomplish it?

You are foolish.

But that's the nature of increasing returns. Neurons on a chip were ignored in favour of traditional CPU's in the 1990's-recent, but we already have the fabrication techniques, so they can level up way faster than Moore's law.

It is when you are the wise king of it. You gain independency by being able to provide for your life the same things that the big system provides you against your will.

If you gain independency you can then start inputing shit to the big system to make it change in a desirable way, but if you never gain independency then you don't even have the ability to interact with the big system

...

>become Amish

You can't actually become Amish you have to be born into an Amish family.
t.amish

Well I just think it's impossible for us to assess this, enough to make choices in advance. The stakes are pretty high now. I don't think I'm defeatist, I just think that no one is really paying attention, which is why I'm a bit alarmist. The shit I'm talking about stretches the limits of language and understanding, but it's the justification and foundation of classical liberalism, and open science. The people best trusted to think about all this, appear lost and confused. Society becomes irrational under totalitarian states because knowledge is not shared, is distorted. Look at the effects of Marxist dogma on science in the Soviet Union for example.

You can't be the wise king any more is what I'm saying. At one point maybe it was possible to know a lot of all there was to know at the time. Leibniz, other great geniuses. Meaning is a shared activity, you don't produce meaning in your own genius, you require society to give you words, which require a commonality and contiguity of experience, for them to make sense to you or anyone else, no matter how creative or skeptical you are.

>t.amish
liar, amish can't use computers

OP
The promotion of Nihilism

The shilling became ((intellectual))

You start by learning to regulate systems, then you grow exponentially further from your self

Every man who is in control of shit, today or 10000 years ago, did it like that.

You don't need words, you need to make note of the feedback and its evolution in time.

Every system needs to regulate, you become expert of regulation, not of the system's specifications, to learn that you read the words that society "gives" you.

You must understand society is an aristocratic invention to regulate the un-bathed masses constantly spawning around. You are supposed of break free of it if you have the spirit that society is trying to inspire in you. It is purposedly evil and scary because you need an enemy to react to and start building your own personal defenses.

I'm not promoting nihilism. I'm trying to rescue us from it.

>Implying unifying our consciousness into one by weaponizing dank memes doesn`t makes us the most powerful force in this brave new world

>Kurzweil is right in that acceleration of technological change
no he's not, you had perhaps more changes in the 60 years between 1890 and 1950 than you've had since 1956. The whole premise of futurism is a recentist bias and focusing way too hard on microprocessors as if that's what progress was always all about.

If you stop focusing autistically on CPUs you'll find that things haven't changed so much in the last 50-60 years, transportation hasn't changed much for instance, there hasn't been any great breakthrough in astrophysics, nothing that really changes how homes work, things just aren't that different except for computer stuff which is now slowing down due to diminishing returns.

Maybe the government is trying to keep that information from the aliens

they put it everywhere, everything that kills you or is bad for you has the mark of the religious tradition that regards engineering and knowledge based on experimentation as a way to reach God

I'm going to write this here because my thread got no replies.

>By the time full automation (which requires advanced AI) becomes a thing transhumanism will also be a
thing, so questions about alienation ,work and what happens to the useless proletariat are answered: Just make a drug that makes people feel happy all the time and put it in the water supply. Fully Automated Luxury Communism if ever is possible will only happen for a week before we upload our consciousness into a computer, genetic engineering eliminates sad emotions, pain (unless you want them) and VR let's you experience Star Trek or whatever.
>So the scary image of the bourgeois stopping on the face of the now jobless proletariat living in walled off cities and squalor becomes an image of a Jew/Asian AI super computer running video games of Star Strek in VR chambers for the proletariat. Keeping them happy in FALC simulators so they don't rise up.
Please discuss

I think the internet is unprecedented, for example, fomenting the collapse of traditional media, kids growing up not knowing anything other than social media, the volunteering of every detail of one's life, including their thoughts and feelings, into the data mine.

And internet is highly relevant to what I'm talking about, that is, the alteration of the landscape of meaning around us, so that we are unable to even articulate what is wrong. Also Kurzweil made some good arguments imho that extended it well beyond CPU's that I've never seen responded to in detail, besides, he made dozens of specific predictions that held up. Just because some areas may slow down doesn't mean there aren't global changes elsewhere.

Take for example psychiatry. They mass prescribed antidepressants, which the doctors denied blunted emotions, explaining it away as residual depression, and claimed the patients were "insightless" into their own condition, so were unqualified to comment, as if the industry had some kind of window into consciousness. Anyone who took them would tell you they did this, though not to the extent they still reacted to it as something they did not want - an emotional response. What if they made you so apathetic you'd not have the emotional response to say "I want emotions back"? The profession was limited by its perspective in even conceiving of this as an issue, and is handed massive authority in our society.

Science being in crisis is something I mentioned. This runs from, relevantly, social psychology, to physics.

But what you write in OP is cut to the point following:

Whatever you do, its meaningless

Fucked up the greentext

>he made dozens of specific predictions that held up

because he made like 100000 predictions

Like with the internet right?

I got a feeling that you may be similarly leaning towards the following idea:

The fleshy evolution and our new lifestyles.

Basically put, human evolution can be fast, but not for all parts in our body. Muscle bio mechanical systems for example have not entirely adapted yet to shoes. It can take many, many more thousands of years for them to do.

In a similar way, we dont know what else could be slow to change. Take the brain for example, for millions of years, 50% of it was dedicated to the conquest/management of food. Now that we have food abundance, do you think that it can easily switch again?

No it cannot, that is why we have the r/K selection problem and people turning into degenerates

youtube.com/watch?v=W8N3FF_3KvU

Also, around 50% of all people lead sedentary lives. Thats basically 60 years or so where people have been living as we are now, in offices, not moving much, not using their muscle mass much. Which in men decreases their testosterone.

and guess what testosterone does...moods go down, anti depressant usage goes up. Pic related happens

Nah, I added the last line as a joke.

Meaning is real, it's just messy, and requires a community. Lone geniuses figuring shit out and speaking up about it won't cut it any more.

bro I have like everything printed out and put in binders.

If we lost everything I would still be GOD.

I think Kurzweil and all these people who are optimistic about technology development are ignore hard limits in nature which will inevitably limit our technological development. Energy is limited.

In order to have a quantum computer for example, one has to maintain near absolute zero temperatures. This take a HUGE amount of energy to reach, let alone maintain. This has huge costs. In addition, there are large limits to our ability to understand what is going on at such scales. New technology will eventually need understanding at that scale. If it was possible, it still would likely be impossible to efficiently manipulate the processes.

Yes, exactly like that

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble

This is a meaningless situation though. If we're directly kept happy by electro-stimulation of the brain's reward centre, but live in this shared, undifferentiated void, what would we talk about? What sets us apart from eachother? What difference does it make if there is 1 person, 1000, or 1000 trillion?

Peace and stability are counter to the laws of thermodynamics. Everything is destined for entropy... all "systems"

Humanity is part of nature and therefore everything created by humanity is natural (green fuckers be damned). Our perception of rapid technological advances and the anthropomorphic effects to the environment are infinitesimally insignificant relative to the sheer mass of matter in the universe. We are the result of a highly unstable and improbable burst of energy that will eventually decay into nothing. Whether the end of this natural phenomenon of humanity comes earlier or later is absolutely irrelevant.

To add to that:

And these are just the things that we are consciously aware off.

You know what else is fucking spooky and what is outside of our cognition? Black swan events and potentially huge variables interfering with our lives, that we are not aware off, but ones that we are affecting with our dumbness.

pastebin.com/f54AG18Q

Even simple walking now is considered a "good thing"

news.stanford.edu/2014/04/24/walking-vs-sitting-042414/

when a 100 years ago people walked 10km daily for no reason whatsoever.

Tying evolutionary variables to our current lifestyles makes it all so maddening indeed. We have some small awareness of some small slice of the whole pie of what we are doing wrong, and nobody is already interested in fixing that.

The worst part of all of this is that there are some things that people think that are normal, but which are not.

rebellious teens for example, it is possible that these teens turn into r selected degenerates because the human psychology works so.

and you know what else? The testosterone drops in older people are too huge to be natural. The movies that the jews make, mocking older people, or just older people thinking that its natural to feel shitty in old age or whatever.

That all unnatural. But nobody realizes this, because we didnt have written science that was so detailed, 100 years ago as we have today. Only now we are somewhat reliably gathering data, but the problem of course is that we do not have extremely accurate standards from a thousand years ago, or even 200 years ago.

So right now we are trying to bridge this gap of ages by testing blindly in the dark.

>kurzweil is right
he's not

to add to that:

another great variable that interferes with all of this is the lingering evolution of a thousand years, related to religion. While the dogma around gods may be gone, there are still some lingering feelings that we have souls. That we are not affected by this reality in any way. That we always perform at 100%

This is the most poisonous kind of thinking possible in my opinion.

Instead of realizing that this world has created us, most people, most atheists subtly think that this world was created for them, around them.

such putrid cancer.

Yeah I mean he goes off the deep end the further it goes out but for the same reasons I outline. He assumes consciousness is just another riddle that science will solve. But you can't know in advance what science will know, or we wouldn't need science. And consciousness is substantially different to every other problem we've dealt with previously, in that it's almost provably nonsensical to talk about it in a physical way, yet somehow has to relate to the physical brain.

You're the same type of dumb motherfucker who thinks we need better tech than the combustion engine in a car.

Maybe it was a mistake to rely on Kurzweil especially without proofs, I think the main point stands, even at the current "rate", if it makes sense to talk about a general rate, it's pretty fucking fast.

Lol no, I'm arguing the literal exact opposite.

You're arguing that we are at the top of achievement, and the only thing that is left is to innovate within the tech we already have?

Doesn't sound like it.

>no one is controlling reality! I'm s-scared!!

Shut the fuck up... our entire existence (depending on your preferred meme) is either due to completely unstable coincidental phenomena which are out of our control OR completely engineered by intelligent forces acting completely outside of the physically observable spectrum and also outside of our control.

Everything we do and everything we create is either part of that unstable system or part of a predetermined timeline...

We are nature... all of us... including the cybernetic constituents

Face it man. You're talking about a world where people use Microsoft Windows. Does anyone really want to use Microsoft Windows? I'd rather use TempleOS or Linux, personally-- but it's not so easy with the deck stacked against the user, is it?

Our tech is deliberately held back. We are stuck in a time period decided by businesses who collude to manipulate it to their benefit.

The idea technology is rapidly accelerating in one direction is a joke, as well as the idea that what we have is what we should have.

>History is a poor guide to the future.
Sauce, then. But making the past a talking point sounds like a strawman argument to me...

>Philosophy in crisis
Philosophy of... What? Just saying that the whole thing is crumbling is a separate argument in itself. The west is falling apart, but exactly where is more than just a matter of 'insert criticism here'.

>There is no escape from the surveillance
Perhaps. You could always choose not to use social media. You could moderate who you give your personal information to. As long as you have documents and a bank account, you'll always be in the loop, but only an idiot exists on social media (and there's plenty of them).

> don't even bother trying to understand or slow down """progress""" that may be bad in ways we didn't even know could be bad before we have a chance to figure it out
We've come a long way to understanding, but things are moving away from us at the rate we are learning about them. Sometimes I'm at peace with this, other times it's the abyss. How can we, individually, plan for a future that is this uncertain?

The same could be said about a real FALC paradise. Really that is the same question people ask about FALC utopian dreams. "B-But what do we d-do there?".
The answer is who cares, you are there.

Faith in God.

> history is still a good guide
Were they dealing with remotely similar problems before? Besides, we've tried some of the possible general solutions already, like Communism, and they didn't work out so good.

> philosophy is fine
This is clearly extremely subjective, but it's a huge amount of obscurantist prose poetry (continental) or empty formal systems that just jerk off empty scientism (analytic).

> go off the grid yourself
But, like it or not, the plebs constitute the community around us, which ultimately is the source of meaning. And you can make non-mainstream choices up to a point, but look how they're being primed for totalitarian control literally now. What concerns me is their utter lack of concern.

>Social media meme

Ever since people invented written language, we've been sharing shit... this is not unprecedented... 200 years ago we lived in villages and you knew everything there is to know about everyone in the village through gossip. In the 20th century, everyone jumped into stacked boxes with beds in big cities with no family and kept to themselves so there was a brief period where no one remembered what a village was.

The advent of the internet has reinstated this so naturally we live in villages again but its virtual.

This is all irrelevant though... we are meant to be doing what ever it is that we do.

As stated above...what ever our end result is, it will be the result of everything we have been given at the start of this experiment... the universe gave us this galaxy cluster, this galaxy, this habitable region in this galaxy, these elements, these molecules, these complex proteins, these cells, these organisms, these brains.... we can't create what wasn't put in and therefore what ever comes out of it was MEANT to come out this way ... and whether or not it was predetermined is irrelevant because 1+1 does not equal anything but 2.

Gossip and the printed press are different in character, it was ephemeral, subjective, plausibly deniable, they didn't have giant black box algorithms combing through every brain fart preserved forever to the point they can statistically make inferences about you that your own family, or perhaps you yourself don't even know. We weren't all globally instantly interconnected. The impact this has psychologically is entirely new.

I know that, but that's just a mantra of acceptance. I think being that we don't know about consciousness, and the level of general hubris in this face of this, we're going to dive head first into deep alterations in the cognitive architecture, without understanding the ramifications.

Consciousness is literally everything. Every experience, every thought, every feeling. If this is all arbitrary, there is an infinity of possible variations of these experiences. We think something is bad because it causes pain. If it's all arbitrarily summoned up by the brain somehow, how do we know there's not something worse than pain, that we can't put into words?

If God exists, he'll stop it before it gets too bad, maybe.

If he doesn't then it's just xanax, a drug to make personal acceptance easier, as same happens.

Kurzweil is a fedora man baby who's afraid to die and too edgy to be religious so he came up with a sci-fi god that he could worship that will grant him eternal life. He has even arranged for cryogenic preservation in case he dies before the singularity so he can be raised to life bodily. This is the exact same logic behind Christian burials.

My concern is how the 1st world handles the transition to a post-scarcity economy, or at least one where the need for daily labor is vastly reduced. It will be hard enough to handle it in the 1st world without even taking into account the hordes of low IQ 3rd worlders who will want free shit and whose population will fucking explode. We might end up in a dystopian tyranny whether we like it or not.

I agree it's a cult tho haha. Transhumanism is the millenarial idea of heaven on earth, and the unification of all our souls with God (le matrix) when we die, forever. It's really very Christian. Which is why I despise the dismissal of philosophy by current era scientist types. They are just sneaking all kinds of terrible philosophical ideas in the back door by doing this, and not being accountable for them.

I think this is the tip of the iceberg though, it's almost a red herring compared with the magnitude of randomly fucking with consciousness wholesale.

All I'm really asking for is a little more respect for consciousness from all the STEM autists, and a little restraint. It's almost a double bind because the religious think the soul transcends the brain. I'm saying that consciousness is deeply affected by the brain, in ways we have no fucking clue of accounting for, which is vastly different to every other scientific problem we have thus far solved.

Why do we still use Internet if that bubble exploded?

It's more like the anti-christ. The evolution of man from the advent of agriculture to now. Take the idea of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and how humanity was altered by it. From an animal like any other to a being suffering existential angst, it rose and changed its environment. They created labor saving devices, went to war for resources in a grand scale, built cities, and innovated all to fight back against their torment. That is the advancement of man for better or worse. In a sense then, human achievement is the product of sin.

*on a grand

I like to think of how the locust army makes men unable to die and it makes me wonder, in the bible such a thing is represented negatively. But in practice most would jump at the chance.

The languages were confused at Babel because man could do whatever he imagined. I'm assuming it was only white men this happened to and not the niggers.

they were claiming our dogs would have internet, then internet came and it was rather boring

same will happen, AI will come and it will be dissapointing

> posting on Sup Forums
> internet is literally fucking nothing
But dogs do have social media accounts.

>they were claiming our dogs would have internet
By they do.
>what is pet trackers?