Fusion power research is objectively a waste of money, resources and time because it will never be cost-competitive with fission, let alone other energy sources. The only viable long-term use for fusion is maybe a space colony around Neptune where heavy uranics simply cannot be found compared to lithium and deuterium.
The only reason people here like fusion is because it's "cool science XD" and they are kids who can't into cost-benefit analysis. How do we put a stop to the fusion meme, Sup Forums?
that thing looks pretty complicated i mean, that's a lot of parts wow what the heck is that thing
Adrian Miller
Fusion will happen, we need to harness more efficient ways of energy production if we want to advance more
Christopher Reyes
It's not more efficient if it isn't more cost-effective.
Samuel Gomez
>The only reason people here like fusion is because it's "cool science XD" and they are kids who can't into cost-benefit analysis.
Dude, there is a reason countries have poured tens of millions into fusion research and are putting tens of millions into ITER and the DEMO.
It truly is an unlimited energy source and if we weren't a fucked up capitalist society, we would already be swimming in fusion reactors.
Jace Miller
Once it goes from experimental to commerciallized it will be much cheaper
Lincoln Kelly
>Requires more energy to start up and to keep going than it produces Not any time soon
Jaxson Howard
>It's not more efficient if it isn't more cost-effective. You are just a short sighted, fucked up capitalist.
We would all be better off if we weren't burning coal, oil and natural gas. 2 million Chinese folks die each year due to air pollution. And we say "who cares" and say "b--bbbbut fusion reactors are 10 cents more expensive per MWh!"
Jack Allen
>wanting science to give immediate results and money Stop there buddy.
Elijah Martinez
It's really hard to maintain confinment, right. But it also produce close to none nuclear waste, who are one of the worst thing for any company in the field. Thats a huge part of the cost.
That's why fusion is still researched.
Hudson Barnes
t. Saudi Arabia
Christopher Sanchez
That's not the hardest part I don't think,
What's more difficult is managing part degradation from the neutron flux. Fusion produces many orders of a magnitude more neutrons than fission.
Lots of super conductors, lots of cooling, lots of coils, lots of shielding, lots of lasers.
Jose Howard
...
Wyatt Peterson
>It's not more efficient if it isn't more cost-effective. >value is static and universal Fuck off, economist.
Lincoln Moore
>are putting tens of millions into ITER and the DEMO. Don't forget Wendelstein. It's one of the few experimental reactors that use one of the other possible designs. And if Wendelstein's design works, it will be far better than Tomataks (or however the fuck they are spelled), as it's able to run reactions continuously instead of in short bursts.
Levi Stewart
theoretical research is prerequisite of applied research
in other words stop being such a jew about it
Lucas Smith
>We would all be better off if we weren't burning coal, oil and natural gas. If global warming was a real threat, we'd plop dozens of nuclear reactors down right at this fucking moment and run all cars on hydrogen.
It's dangerous, you say? The waste will fuck us up you say? Some countries shouldn't have nuclear?
Who the fuck cares? If we are about to die from global warming, FUCK THE LONG TERM CONSEQUENCES. I fucking hate the hipocrisy of the globalist shitters who claim that global warming is a massive threat while ALSO vetoing our ability to instantly turn the entire world away from coal (It's fucking feasible - costly, but less costly than letting everyone die) and shilling for not going into space even though a backup colony is as important as unfucking the planet in terms of survival chances.
Hudson Turner
if you voodo kike science magicians summon the green apocalypse I'll be pretty fucking grumpy
Jaxon Carter
Why use fusion when fission exists?
Landon Ortiz
Yup, tokamaks are used because the research around them is, as of today, more advanced than stellarators, and they are way less complex to build. Given time, stellarators are going to be the shit, but only when we will overcome the massive hassle caused by the coils, who needs to be precisely adjusted at near atomic levels.
James White
Nobody in the West is dying from global warming, poor suckers in the third world will be suffering. This is why we do not really care about global warming.
Anyway, my point was NOT global warming, but air pollution and the effects of it. There are lots of Germans that die of air pollution. The diesels emit a shitton of fine particles which we breath in and that ain't good.
Mason Rodriguez
>we'd plop dozens of nuclear reactors down right at this fucking moment and run all cars on hydrogen.
>implying the usefulkikes haven't made building and running a nuclear plant cost prohibitive through regulations and demonizing it throughout the 60s
>implying each large nuclear meltdown wasn't a spook false flag to scare the public into voting to make this superior energy source nearly impossible to start up.
Gavin Young
IIRC we wouldn't be able to run them for long, due to lack of fuel. Radioactive isotopes are, by their very nature, unstable and fall apart. This makes them rare.
Though some of the isotopes that can be used for Fusion are also really fucking rare, from what I know.
Henry Thomas
Why is it that the boys in the Lockheed-Martin skunkworks don't seem to agree with you? You think their toroidal confinement prototype is just for research grants? No way.
Why is it they think it's cost-effective (plane hat doesn't have to land for 100 years), but you dont?
Daniel Walker
I agree, untill we can use nuclear fusion in a way that is more cost and energy effective we should stick with fission and try to make it as safe and disaster-proof as possible, and shoot any treehugging faggots who protest the new Plants.
Logan Brown
>>implying the usefulkikes haven't made building and running a nuclear plant cost prohibitive through regulations and demonizing it throughout the 60s Thanks for repeating what I just said.
>>implying each large nuclear meltdown wasn't a spook false flag to scare the public into voting to make this superior energy source nearly impossible to start up. How many nuclear fuckups were there in the history of nuclear, anyway? I know of two off the top of my head.
Fuck the Greens, though.
Gabriel Brooks
last i heard this was breaking even even power wise, and that was like 10 years ago.
i guess fission is a true meme
Austin Diaz
> Thinking socialism produces anything without capitalism.
If you think socialism will ever produce anything of value, I'm not surprised you think fusion is viable.
Nicholas Nelson
>why use fission when coal exists
Daniel Nelson
yeah my bad I read part of your post and didn't finish it because I got trgurd about not using futurespacescience to make earth great again.
Hudson Harris
>You think their toroidal confinement prototype is just for research grants? It isnt just for reseach. In fact the research started in 1954 after we learned why Castle Bravo ran away.
I bet the people in this thread are not even aware that there is an isomer of thorium that is being produced for nuclear fusion. That is the reason thorium fission reactors are not taking off in the US.
Ayden Ross
>Radioactive isotopes are, by their very nature, unstable and fall apart. >This makes them rare.
welcome to florida where every house gets inspected for radon gas.
radon has a half life of like 3 hours, not 2000 years like uranium, and its a huge problem in florida thanks to all of our granite.
we have radioactive iron, sodium, and carbon, all naturally found all over the fucking place.
large deposits of radiactive materials are rare, but the isotopes themselves are so far from rare its not funny.
Connor Parker
>Stop researching because I already know the result of your research despite not having done any research myself Spoken like the goodest goyim.
Jaxon Butler
The Manhattan Project wasn't cost competitive either. They would have gotten the same result cheaper by making a lot of regular bombs.
Daniel Peterson
>> Thinking socialism produces anything without capitalism. You do remember the T-15, right?
Brayden Gutierrez
don't shit on stellarators bro
Alexander Nelson
>BUH BUH THIS CHILD MIGHT HAVE TO BREATHE A DEISEL FUME WHEN HE WALKS OUTSIDE >HE IS DOOMED TO DEATH
Christ you are retarded, go back to groping a migrants balls, Hans.
Daniel Sanders
radon is not conducive to fission for power generation
thorium research hasn't taken off because nuclear fission research in the US dried up in the 70s
natural gas is cheaper than coal and emits half the CO2 per kwh
>Why is it that the boys in the Lockheed-Martin skunkworks don't seem to agree with you? muh research grant money
ITER alone already costs 77% as much as the entire Manhattan Project and it isn't even built yet
>thorium research hasn't taken off because nuclear fission research in the US dried up in the 70s No, it was dead on arrival because the thorium is used for different purposes. Go read up about the interview Ronald Richter gave to the USAF 5 months after Castle Bravo.
It is for the common man but not for people in certain fields of study.
Bentley Phillips
Yeah, because complaining about your children getting lung cancer before puberty is entitled behavior.
Dylan Hall
>radon is not conducive to fission for power generation oh i get what you mean now
on a realistic view: IIRC salt reactors use sodium+thorium i believe
Jaxon Garcia
radon breaks itself to easily to be able to be split more quickly to produce more energy.
Jack Carter
thorium was useless for making plutonium for primaries in thermonuclear bombs, hence why it was never pursued
today's nuclear power plants are mostly just glorified rehashes of nuclear sub power reactors
Daniel Young
is that true, though? i mean, "never" might not be a good word. think of what people said about: >the internet vs "snail" mail >text messaging vs phonecalls >electric lighting vs lamps >steel hulls on ships vs wooden hulls >cellular telephones vs landlines >automobiles vs horse and carriage just to name a few none of these were considered "cost effective" early on in development and some took decades to catch on.
Austin Martin
>hence why it was never pursued It was never pursued because it is used for other purposes, not for inefficient power generation in molten salt reactors.
It's the long term potential which makes this field interesting. Look at the improvement in Solar cells in last 10 years.
Leo Williams
>2 million Chinese folks die each year due to air pollution Only 2 million? That's not nearly enough.
Justin Lewis
I can't find it. Link?
Matthew Butler
shits cool
Lucas Gonzalez
But all of them was cost effective right from the start.
Adrian Cook
Fission only produces energy with nuclear masses heavier than Iron. Fusion only produces energy with nuclear masses lighter than iron
John Myers
Dont have one, saw the FOIA of it in a physics lab when I was in college. You could likely FOIA the entire paperclip file of him, I know it is included in it.
Thomas Brooks
Weren't a fucked up capitalist society, we would already be swimming in fusion reactors.
Ah, and in true ancap we'd have 5-1 Tomahawk-per-person ratio. Take your head out of your arse user. Utopias aren't real.
Colton Rivera
>LFTR REACTORS LTFReactor reactor
Jason Wright
>thorium >nuclear fusion
Jayden Sullivan
>because it will never be cost-competitive with fission, let alone other energy sources.
You're just saying that because your employers own all of the fossil fuel and uranium.
But they don't and CAN'T own all of the fusion fuel.
Gavin Jenkins
(continued)
inb4 George soros attempts to buy all of the water in the world tommorow.
Evan Morgan
>EMdrive-tier meme science
Luis Kelly
LENR (aka cold fusion) will go commercial before any of these hot fusion designs. Even big players like the Gates foundation and Toyota are getting into LENR.
Brayden Sanchez
>he doesnt understand how energy gating works based on geometry, a concept people knew of in the 20s. Your education is really lacking. I bet you struggle with quaternions and tensor calculus.
Adam Stewart
polywell FTW
Jackson Martinez
fusion is a massive meme moneysink perpetuated by sneaky """physicists""" who can get a nice comfy grant to dick about for the rest of their life boning qt interns
thn when someone says hey where is the fusion nerds you just make some dumb physics shit oh its quantum particles you wouldn't understand
physics is a massive racket hasn't done shit since WW2
don't get me started on dark energy >oh our model doesn't work >must be a mysterious force in the void
absolute joke
Dominic Price
The only reasons for Fusion is to boil steam to make electricity which is kind of stupid way to do things desu
Evan Mitchell
>boil steam You get what i mean
Leo Turner
>tomahawk Tokamak you tard
Lincoln Hughes
Yeah the polywell tests in 2017 should be interesting too. They have high hopes. I give them 10% chance of a net positive energy test next year.
Andrew Jenkins
>He doesn't understand this graph Your hygiene is really lacking. I bet you struggle with not shitting your pants in shopping malls.
Christopher Mitchell
Fusion is like people imagined early fission reactors in sci fi, literally blowing shit the fuck up and containing the death and destruction to generate power. The problem is more power is used containing the reaction than what's harvested from it.
Samuel Perry
I don't like ITER / tokamaks because the steady state plasma physics determine the overall operating conditions - which means you get things like insane heat fluxes.
In comparison, look at inertial confinement, if your overall fluxes get too high, drop the shot rate.
Therefore team USA for the eventual win. (again).
Nathaniel Gutierrez
the EMdrive has been confirmed to work what now cuck?
>I still dont understand So you went to public school and assumed that what they taught you was real?
Meanwhile for those of us with real jobs at LMT people like you exist for our amusement at your lack of understand of the world around you.
Here lets give you a starting point for expanding your knowledge. Go FOIA the Paperclip file of Dr Ronald Richter and go find one of the 5 remaining 1st edition works of Gabriel Kron. After you read them, you will need to understand how tensor fields function, you will then have a starting point for this realm of science that has been every effectively hidden from the general public.
John Johnson
Hydrogen is an annoying fuel to store.
For cars you want at least propane and preferably methanol or ethanol.
Eli Scott
There's enough Uranium on Earth to last our current reactors for another 10,000 years. Fusion is a solution looking for a problem. If breeder reactors eventually live up to their hype there's functionally enough fission fuel for eternity.
Grayson Wright
>it will never be cost-competitive with fission
You have no idea what the fuck it might turn into. We should be investigating any avenue for energy we will need it to cross the void of space.
You are like those fucks who say the zebra is impossible to domesticate because we only see undomesticated ones.
Jordan Gray
Bye bye pseudoscience man.
Aiden Hernandez
>Running a vehicle that people crash frequently off of hydrogen That and it was expensive as fuck back when it was hyped
Nicholas Stewart
Well I tried, it isnt my fault if you struggle with reading and math or with conducting research.
Really you only have yourself to blame for your ignorance when people hand you the starting point.
Hunter Bell
>Fusion is like people imagined early fission reactors in sci fi, literally blowing shit the fuck up and containing the death and destruction to generate power. >The problem is more power is used containing the reaction than what's harvested from it.
How does it feel to never be able to fuck a cute Indian girl next to a 3,000 MW fusion reactor?
Jaxon Lee
>tensor calculus. What is a tensor even? I dropped out before we went into it, but no explanation that I read actually made sense.
It hasn't, Legoland. It just created a reading in a situation where it's more likely that this wasn't a fluke. Still needs testing.
Ryan Rogers
Can we at least show some unified hate for the moped of energy sources?
fuck windmills
Joseph Turner
Careful user, your autism is showing.
Xavier Perez
Wait, I thought Liberals were terrified of the concept of Fusion energy because it would kill off wind/solar and provide seemingly cheap and infinite energy to the masses no matter the environmental condition?
Jason Thomas
>physics is a massive racket hasn't done shit since WW2 You say that by utilizing a nanotech device built upon quantum technology. (Or, well, quantum stabilization engineering)
Jacob Evans
windmills are objectively superior to solar, and are cost-competitive with nuclear in some areas
Nicholas Gutierrez
>Go file paperwork with a foreign government for some probably non-existent file, track down one of five books on the planet, and then you'll see what I'm babbling about!
Nice starting point.
You didn't try shit, you're just masturbating your ego on a Bulgarian peanut-shelling forum.
Evan Mitchell
Yeah the ussr was so successful with nuclear energy. Communism sure does bring about innovation.
Jose Gray
Just a question, what quantum technology are you referring to?
Lucas Campbell
Technology that makes sure that your 14nm processor isn't killed by tunneling.
Bentley Barnes
windmills are the Jeb Bush of electricity production
Leo Brown
stfu you are a kid and can't understand cost-benefit
Logan Lopez
Did you know France uses 50% of its natural water ressources to cool their fission reactors?
Ayden Jones
I remember doing a report on that in high school.
It will never happen user, unless you happen to fund it yourself.
Brody Scott
I don't know what technology you're referring to. 5nm is about the theoretical limit to transistors. Quantum tunneling becomes more prevalent at that scale. Not trying to sound rude, just don't know the technology.
James Diaz
>What is a tensor even? If you cannot understand the wiki about it how do you expect me to explain it to you? If you didnt stick in physics long enough to understand it then there is no way I can explain it to you.
Anyone can file a FOIA and it is well known that Ronald Richter applied for paperclip admission to the US, he was denied then he went to Argentina. After Castle Bravo ran away the USAF and some men from Sandia went and interviewed him. They couldnt test his idea as to why the run away happened for nearly a decade. He was completely right in his assessment.
Now once again Leaf, it isnt my fault if you dont want to drink water after being led to the pool, it is entirely on you to use the starting points provided.
If you dont want to it is no loss to me as the concerns of people like you are meaningless to those in my position.
Evan Garcia
I just want to throw this out there to get the scale of a tokamak in people's head.
The plasma in ITER is being generated in a pure hard vacuum. Yet the pressure within the plasma held within the vacuum is like 1 or 2 atmospheres. That pressure is being maintained just by the magnetic fields. Of course the particles are contained just because they have been stripped of their outer electrons by 150 million degree temperatures.
All of this is inside a stainless steel doughnut wrapped with superconducting magnets cooled with liquid helium - basically near absolute zero.
