This thread is for the discussion of any and all left-wing political ideology, including, but not limited to, Marxism/Socialism/Communism/Anarchism/Syndicalism/etc.
>Socialism is an economic and social system defined by social ownership of the means of production. (Workers democratically own and operate the places in which they work, as opposed to private power aka capitalism)
>The means of production are non-human inputs the create economic value, such as factories, workplaces, industrial machinery, etc. Socialists refer to the means of production as capital, or private property. Private property in the socialist context shouldn't be confused with personal property, such as your home, car, computer, and other possessions.
>In a capitalist society the means of production are owned and controlled privately, by those that can afford them (the capitalist aka those with capital). Production is carried out to benefit the capitalist (production for profit). Workers are paid a wage, and receive that amount regardless of how much value they produce.
>Communism is the highest developed stage of socialism wherein there is no state, no money, no class system. The means of production are owned by all and provide for everyone's needs.
Libertarian: Mikhail Bakunin - God and the State (short read) Thomas Paine - Agrarian Justice Noam Chomsky - Notes on Anarchism Anton Pannekoek - Worker's Councils
Give me one good reason communism will ever work without killing millions of people
Kayden Lee
Nice thread comr8.
Aiden Hernandez
Kill communists
Bust their heads open with rusty shovels
Gouge their eyes out with broken spoons
Hurt them, kill them, torture them
Laugh at the screams of pain
Throw them in a ditch and light them on fire, then piss on their corpse
Henry Ward
Helicopter rides are too merciful for the communist scum.
Daniel Nguyen
Eat shit, communigger. As opposed to nothing at all.
Oliver Sullivan
Helicopter rides are too merciful for the communist scum.
Adrian Lewis
Because we have learned from our past mistakes. It tool capitalism 400 years and countless deaths to defeat feudalism, communism is the next evolution
you first porky
Alexander Brooks
give me an example how capitalism worked without killing millions of people
Christian Cruz
Gonna leave this here
Elijah Jackson
so you're going to install Communism in the USA. How do you do it differently from soviet russia
Carson Ramirez
>everyone is reddit >the child's guide to arguing I genuinely hate reddit tho
Ayden Ortiz
You blood will lubricate our tanks.
Jeremiah Bennett
when are you moving to venezuela/north korea/cuba/vietnam?
Jordan Rivera
Since adopting capitalist reforms, China has lifted roughly 70% of it's population out of poverty. Over a billion people
This is the most rapid economic expansion in human history. Like a balloon held under water being released
Landon Hall
What happened in Russia was that Lenin died before he could stop Stalin from taking power and corrupting the revolution
So, we just need to make sure the people heading the revolution won't die and let a tyrannical dictator take over.
Joseph Williams
Unlike in the ussr it will be a democracy where issues can be discussed. The resources will be shared between individuals and the USA will no longer be trading with anyone so they can share the resources among each other.
David Thompson
Why do you think gulags and breadlines are terrific things?
Camden Sanders
>picks poorly executed communist nations >uses it as an argument against communism No
Brody Sanchez
when the socialist country I live in fails :3 So probably never.
Jack Kelly
Friendly reminder that right-wingers are best goys.
Jeremiah Russell
because they're not for us, they're for (((others)))
Jaxon Clark
Two different beasts. But Socialism is the first step, characterised by a revolutionary government and wage retention.
Jacob Cruz
>gulags No we don't >breadline That was towards the dissolution of the ussr
Isaac Evans
this is physically impossible for proof see pic related
Grayson Sullivan
But Lenin ordered the execution of dissenters and installed the first gulags...
Also, Lenin installed perfect communism but people starved so he allowed for a free market
Also, also, then why was the same result of death in countries where the leader didn't die early on like Mao or Fidel
Nolan Stewart
No rebuttal? Unsurprising, this totally crushes your worldview
Robert Ramirez
What? The USSR was known universally for its gulags.
what happens when we democratically pick something other than communism if that ever happens
Sebastian Martin
...
Jose Diaz
friendly reminder that you're a meme country.
Lucas Gomez
Okay, I'm not the guys who want to just talk about their heated murder fantasies which they just project onto communists because they want any acceptable target to be violent against.
Instead, why don't you guys actually try the baby steps of communism? Why don't a bunch of you guys form a company in which every single person on-board has an equal share of the profits and power of the company.
After all, every good experiment in anything needs a working test model before it could ever be done on a wide-scale. If you create a successful model, I'm sure more people would listen to you.
Andrew Jones
>using a argument that's been refuted so.many times
Owen Collins
...
Nathan Williams
before the dissolution of the USSR they didn't even have breadlines then? No bread I suppose
Dylan Rivera
Oh good. The commies are already starting with the censorship. Screw leftism forever.
Blake Lee
Requesting the "Hey Stalin, what'cha doin' ?" comic plz
Jaxson Foster
explain to me how this wont happen in "your" communism?
Julian Johnson
nice quads
But that isn't how it's gonna go down. The majority of Americans are average middle class citizens, they vastly outnumber rednecks and the like.
>not enough food The workers will produce more, (this is also an argument for a different thread, but veganism is a solution for that)
Gavin Flores
There are more people living in poverty in china than when Mao introduced communism.
This is related to capitalist population increase, like in Africa.
Bentley Johnson
GUYS, we found the real socialism!!!! Its a capitalist state that gives welfare
Chase Green
>tfw with Communist China does Capitalism better than you
>The workers will produce more, (this is also an argument for a different thread, but veganism is a solution for that)
How do you get the workers do produce more if they receive no financial benefit for working harder?
Lucas Thompson
A
Adrian Scott
He did what was necessary. Another factor was that they skipped right from feudalism to communism, so the infrastructure wasn't there at first to support everyone. Marx argued that capitalism is essential as an in-between period. This is why Lenin allowed the free market
Caleb Bell
You throw them into a gulag because they won't work harder :DDDDDDD
Oliver Collins
Yeah but the ussr was just a dictatorship Then we must accept the results user but most likely they will be swayed from doing so by propaganda and shit
Robert Myers
>There are more people living in poverty in china than when Mao introduced communism. Are you fucking insane???
What the fuck, China fills a city every year. It grows at 8% a year, the fastest growing economy in world history
Eli Sullivan
why did you assume that the average american worker will just accept the new communist regime?
how do you know that they wont be viewed by the (((revolutionaries))) as dissenters?
Kevin Martin
The USSR was just a dictatorship not more nothing less
Gavin Miller
How about the food they eat and the services they get from the people they produce food to? Why do you bring financial incentive as an argument?
Aaron Parker
At the same rate China destroys your economy, so it's okay. ;)
Ryder Brooks
how do you know that "your" communism wont devolve into the same thing?
Jack Butler
Interesting, I think the solution here is that socialists should congregate, pool resources, and start their own worker's cooperatives like this. While they still would be participating in the capitalist system, all the workers involved would be equally compensated for their labor. I think that would make everyone happy.
John Ramirez
>no source
William Reed
People respond to incentive. I quit one job and took another because the other job offered me higher pay.
Asher Mitchell
>What went wrong with 20th century 'Communism'? Contrary to his image, Karl Marx saw benefits and a necessity to Capitalism, while still acknowledging it's flaws and fleeting nature. To him, Society must endure Capitalism, just as a toddler must endure adolescence on it's path to adulthood.
Jonathan Torres
they know if they don't produce more food then they will all starve, seems like a good enough incentive to me
Not all of them will, but hopefully when the time for revolution comes the masses will be "awake", and ready. The revolution can't happen until they are, there will be no communism until the people want it
Jayden Cruz
Because if the only incentive to work is to feed yourself, you don't have any reason to produce a surplus you fucking retard.
Joseph Flores
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck Offffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
Mason Carter
>implying china is communist.
Julian Rivera
>they know if they don't produce more food then they will all starve, seems like a good enough incentive to me
If this were the case then millions wouldn't have died of famine in USSR you absolute mongoloid.
Brandon Myers
Sooooooo why is the USSR out and capitalist america still around then?
Noah Richardson
damn, leftychimps still going at it.
Ethan Taylor
Is this supposed to be some sort of argument? You have said nothing that could be considered a rebuttal, besides some fallacious speculation that poverty-stricken rice farmers 100 years ago were better off than the modern booming Chinese miracle
You're probably a 400 pound blue haired lesbian who never had a strong father figure
Jaxon Thomas
No.
Andrew Clark
Agree in part. But just worker ownership will lead to the same pitfalls of capitalism(ever-expanding growth for its own sake, need cheaper labor to increase profits) >resources are not infinite
Henry Fisher
Ha fittingly reflects communist inception IRL.
Just like the pied piper.
Ryder White
So if I murdered people based on race, im evil, but if i do based on class, im not? also, ive read extensively on this period between communism and feudalism... it was on its way to capitalism under the Tsars and yes, it wasnt really capitalistic yet, after stalins 5 year plan to build up the capital from what should have been the capitalist stage, the quantities and qualities of the factories were such shit that millions died for basically nothing. Many of the factories broke down and one of the famous canals (name escapes me) was built completely shitty and doesnt even work
Lucas Barnes
Because of Gorbachev. Fuck him.
Ian Rogers
What commies fail to realize time and time again is that on an instinctual level humans act in self-interest. It is part of the core human psyche.
Unless you can somehow change human brain chemistry and eliminate such things as greed and jealousy, you will never achieve your utopian society.
Nobody wants to work to the benefit of society as a whole, and to the detriment to themselves.
Aaron Allen
Oh, so it's not 'real' communism? Interesting turn of phrase for a porky.
If you're trying to contest this well known fact, you're in a very difficult position
Hudson Harris
Can you guys bump my commie sucks general
Levi Miller
gorbi was a commie he wanted open discussion on how to fix communism and when he showed his ppl how much better life in america was everyone said "fuck this shit"
Levi Morris
So if a political system can be destroyed by one incompetent leader, why should I be interested in it?
Jason Martinez
>What is Communism? A stateless, classless society.
>What is Socialism? A transitional system between Capitalism and Communism, characterized by revolutionary govt and wage retention.
>What is Capitalism? An economic system characterized by the private ownership of property and subsequent exploitation of labor.
>Why is Communism an almost certain inevitability? As technology and society progresses, those who subsist on their labor will find themselves without work and coin. Their numbers will grow until eventually the abolishment of private property necessitates their survival.
>What went wrong with 20th century 'Communism'? Contrary to his image, Karl Marx saw benefits and a necessity to Capitalism, while still acknowledging it's flaws and fleeting nature. To him, Society must endure Capitalism, just as a toddler must endure adolescence on it's path to adulthood.
Decades after his death, Vladimir Lenin would rise to power and weigh in upon Marx's ideas. Lenin rejected the notion that Feudal Russia must undergo Capitalist revolution before attaining Capitalism. The Soviets quickly learned that their Feudal development was insufficient in produce and supplying the needs of a Socialist society. And so began decades of state-sponsored Capitalism, in a desperate game of catch up.
There is much debate about this, with some arguing that Russia's premature attempt at Socialism accelerated the stage of Capitalism, with others asking at what cost? Regardless, Lenin's views and actions spread like wildfire across the globe, influencing Feudal and agrarian society's across the globe to prematurely campaign for a Socialist society that was well beyond their reach.
so let me get this straight, you want force the population to produce food and the only reason they should produce the food is so they can survive?
tell me again how i should consider you to be human?
Joshua Morgan
This is the problem with Marx's thinking imo. He followed Hegel's dialectics, thinking that communism would be the "Absolute Idea". I don't see any support for this, seems to me the ball will just keep on bouncing.
Ryder Taylor
...
Nathan Jenkins
from what I remember the USSR experienced famine because of weather conditions, and also I think farmers might of protested the new regime and refused to produce
Ethan Reed
See
Ethan Cruz
Stalin kept most of the resources for himself and his other elite
David Carter
Whats leftypols opinion on the JQ?
Cameron Peterson
BECAUSE IT WASN'T REEEEEEEEEEEEAAAALLLL COMMUNISM!
Dominic Nelson
>Since initiating market reforms in 1978, China has shifted from a centrally-planned to a market-based economy and has experienced rapid economic and social development. GDP growth has averaged nearly 10 percent a year—the fastest sustained expansion by a major economy in history—and has lifted more than 800 million people out of poverty. China reached all the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) by 2015 and made a major contribution to the achievement of the MDGs globally.
>With a population of 1.3 billion, China recently became the second largest economy and is increasingly playing an important and influential role in the global economy.
do you think we will ever democratically vote to get rid of every single business owner
Ayden Reed
>bt-5
degenerate
Benjamin Cook
Helicopter rides are too merciful for communist scum faggot kike lapdogs.
Nathaniel Fisher
One leader who is malicious and intends to destroy the system. In a better communist society there would be checks and balances.
Matthew Brooks
Yes ok good for you, but financial incentive makes sense only when discussing inside a capitalist framework. There are other types of incentives you know. And financial incentives don't make sense when discussing a communist framework.
Eli Brown
Your logical fallacy is appeal to nature.
Brody Wilson
Piss off.
Oliver Powell
>believing in an ideology that's been refuted so.many times
Jace Parker
Actually I take back that the killing was necessary, you shouldn't kill anyone. Lenin was an angry vengeful man.
Gavin Hernandez
I thought the checks and balance system was the gulags.
William Williams
Kill yourself
Cameron Johnson
How do you know the next person elected in the USA won't call himself dictator and try to take over? Because everyone loves democracy and people get angry when it's taken away
