/pt/ — Portuguese Politics General

New PT thread for us Portuguese, British, Spanish and Brazilian anons. Let's discuss Iberian culture, post rare Salazares, pray to our god Cristiano Tsunaldo, share PT qts. and discuss how we'll remove communists from our society

Other urls found in this thread:

almedina.net/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=36062
pordata.pt/Portugal/Taxa de fecundidade geral-618
youtube.com/watch?v=WFeeSP41dVc
literaturamarginalis.blogspot.pt/2013/07/a-refundacao-da-direita-por-jaime.html
youtube.com/watch?v=l7qs_nfLMSc
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom
mises.org/library/new-liberty-libertarian-manifesto
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draco_(lawgiver)
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

almedina.net/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=36062

>almedina.net/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=36062
Seems interesting, maybe I'll get it!

Don't be put off by the price. That book has 1000 pages, and Salazar is famous for writing remarkably well.

Fix your fertility rate Portugal.

Oh my I just noticed. Nope, fuck that. I can buy four books with more content for that price. What a shame, it seems interesting.

we can't because our government is dysfunctional

Should I learn Spanish or Portuguese? What language sounds better?

Our language is better.

pordata.pt/Portugal/Taxa de fecundidade geral-618

It is the only available primary source on Salazar available for the general public, besides some short videos in TV. It has the potential to seriously redpill the Portuguese.

But don't worry: the book is new and some people are going to pick up on it and publish the most interesting bits on the internet.

What do you like about it that Spanish doesn't have?

Why is socialism so popular in Portugal?

When I was in Lisboa there was commie propaganda everywhere.

portugese sounds better

but ultimately would you rather read portugese realist literature, or spanish nihilist literature (I might be mistaken , but i think that's what they're known for)

>chill fascist leader's gov is removed by CIA after his death
>gommies propagate

Our realist literature is not that good, and it is actually pretty depressing.
We shine in nationalistic "mythology", though.

One of the best Portuguese poems adapted to a song:
youtube.com/watch?v=WFeeSP41dVc

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I think it sounds better and it's easier to whisper in Portuguese. Spanish people are always shouting. But if you learn one of them you can then deduce the other more or less.

socialism and social democracy ("democratic" socialism) virulently spread after 1974 and still control us today. we have no real right wing parties here.

My philosophical views are pretty Hindu/Buddhist. Live in the moment and I guess more realist than nihilist.

Lê isto:
literaturamarginalis.blogspot.pt/2013/07/a-refundacao-da-direita-por-jaime.html

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Most of the people have said that socialism as an issue in Portugal originates in or around 1974 but that's not quite right. The real widespread support for socialism (at least in the south and centre of the country, which remains a hotbed for socialism) began under Salazar, virtually from 1933 onward. I can give a more detailed explanation but I'm not going to bother if no one's going to read it.

I will. Go ahead you caught my attention. Are you the Expatriatebro?

>estudando português por cinco meses
>dificil como foda
>quase não consegue entender nada
>a gente fala demais rapido
>aceito eu nunca vou entender português verbal
>pelo menos eu tenho memes em outra língua

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i'll read it

if I had to assume, are you referring to the rebellious sentiment and people like Zeca Afonso

Spanish is brutally direct. I love spanish imprecations. It also lack deepness.

Portuguese is much better, and is more logical, but it also sound kinda gay.

>dificil como foda

Meus lados estão em órbita

(((Zeca))) was way after that. Maybe he's talking about communist infiltration that PIDE tried to discover? Let's keep the thread alive while he writes.

>estou a estudar português há cinco meses
>é difícil para caralho
>quase não se consegue entender nada
>vocês falam demasiado rápido
>eu aceito nunca entender o português falado (this sentence is still weird)
>pelo menos, eu tenho memes noutra língua
FTFY, drop the huehue bullshit

zeca wasn't jewish, and he was born in 1929, he lived much of his life under salazar

huehuehue brbrbrbr

he was still a fucking commie shill tho.

You cannot imagine how much I hate 25 de Abril.

>estou estudando brasileiro :^) há cinco meses
>é difícil feito a foda
>não entendo quase nada
>as pessoas falam muito rápido
>aceito que nunca entenderei o brasileiro :^) verbal
>pelo menos eu tenho memes em outra língua

>he was still a fucking commie shill tho.
didn't say he wasn't
>hate 25 de Abril.
as do I

That's not true. There has always been Marxism in Portugal. But it was when it became popular in France that it spread here. That's why you had the major student revolt in May 68 in France and then, one year later, in April 69 in Coimbra. This Marxist subversion, however, was going on in all Western countries, namely the US and the UK, where you had intellectuals writing laudatory articles on Mao's China and the USSR; visiting the USSR and being completely duped by the soviets; and continuously claiming change was coming to the West, as well. As Salazar predicted since the 30s, we were fucked by foreign ideological subversion.

huehuheuhe Brazilian portuguese rules

>As Salazar predicted since the 30s, we were fucked by foreign ideological subversion.
That was actually pretty accurate when you read it now.

Oh, I now understand the 4th sentence:
>Eu aceito que nunca irei perceber português falado.
FTFY

Português de portugal é muito mais rápido fora que tem um sotaque engraçado de português da padaria kkk

Seriously, what kind of BR says "é difícil feito a foda" instead of "é dificil pra caralho"?
I agree with the rest tho.

the kind of retard ones

No, diasporafag.

First, I think highly and fondly of Salazar. I think it's important to say that so I'm not construed as some commie or a sympathizer.

The issue in the south is that people were living under virtual feudalism because of Salazar. This was one of the mistakes he made, IMO: he protected the wealthy landowners living in Cascais/Lisbon/Oeiras. I wouldn't go so far as to say that southern Portuguese living under this feudalist model were slaves (some compare their situation to the latifundia system), but it is certain that they had no real options in terms of economic prospects but to accept doing a slave's work. Social mobility was a distant dream. Naturally, people living under such conditions would be receptive to Marxist theory and, indeed, these people were. These are the people that constituted much of the PCP's support from the beginning. The fact that Salazar didn't offer them any real alternatives merely solidified their support and that of their children (and grandchildren). If they do not remain supporters of the PCP then they are supporters of one of the splinter parties, like BE.

I know I said there was no alternative, but there was one (sort of): fleeing to Lisbon's industrial belt for factory work, places like Amadora/Loures/Moita/etc. The problem is that they had already imbibed Marxist philosophy and socialist rhetoric to the point that they were true believers, and so with the emigration to Lisbon came the importation of leftists. Because of this, Portugal - and none more so than the south and centre of the country - still struggles with socialism in a very serious way.

68 you could say was an year planned to subvert the west.

Google generation 68. Even the nordic countries had this shit to deal with.

This kind of shit that makes me go full on Water filter merchant.

I absolutely do not deny the presence of foreign subversion and you can only imagine how pleased Moscow was with how deeply socialism took root in Portugal. The problem is that Salazar could have stemmed that tide but instead opted to pander to the wealthy nobles in the aforementioned cities. Portuguese socialism as a popular political worldview is a direct reaction to this fact.

ahora en español

> estou aprendendo português já fazem cinco meses
> é deveras complicado
> quase não entendo o coloquial
> as pessoas falam demasiado rápido
>aceitei que nunca serei eloqüente
> no entanto, entendo piadas da rede mundial de computadores em um novo idioma

sounds funnier

I've been told this before. Hell, it might have even been from you

You can understand Spanish if you speak Portuguese. Other way around does not work.

Thanks guys. I still have a long way to go obviously. I feel like I know a lot of vocabulary and verbs but I fucking suck at making sentences that sound natural.

Now think about Social Psychology. The field was formed right after Hitler got into power and there are two common themes behind it:

Solomon Asch
Best known for laboratory studies on conformity showing that under certain circumstances, a large percentage of people will conform to a majority position even when the position is clearly incorrect.

Leon Festinger
Developed the theory of cognitive dissonance, a motivational theory suggesting that people seek to minimize discomfort caused by inconsistent beliefs and behaviors.

Kurt Lewin
He was an early leader of group dynamic research and is regarded by many as the founder of modern social psychology. His equation, B=f(P,E), stipulates that behavior is a function of the person and environment, and he advocated "action research" applying this equation and scientific methods to address social problems such as prejudice and group conflict.

Stanley Milgram
Famous for a set of studies suggesting that most people will obey an experimenter's order to administer potentially deadly levels of electric shock to a protesting stranger.

Henri Tajfel
Devised the "minimal group paradigm" for which he documented that even minimal groups readily form identities and exhibit ingroup favoritism. Developed social identity theory.

Daniel Katz
Produced classic studies of racial stereotyping and prejudice, and attitude change, and his pursuit of the connections between individual psychology and social systems helped to found the field of organizational psychology.

Robert K. Merton
Best known for the terms "role model" and "self-fulfilling prophecy". A central element of modern sociological, political, and economic theory, the "self-fulfilling prophecy" is a process whereby a belief or expectation, correct or incorrect, affects the outcome of a situation or the way a person or group will behave.

Elliot Aronson
Best known for the invention of the Jigsaw Classroom as a method of reducing interethnic hostility and prejudice.

>Salazar opted to pander to the wealthy nobles
what do you mean?

T. Alberto Barbosa

I'm 3rd generation Portuguese. My grand parents came from the Azores, Faial to be exact. If I moved there to learn the language would I be well received as the full-blown American that I am.

>the pic
kek

damn I wasn't aware. but regardless the overall outcome was amazing.

>yfw you will never denounce your neighbor to PIDE for hearing him whisper Marxist bullshit to his wife at night

I wrote about it here: I'd make one small correction to what I said, specifically this:

>The issue in the south is that people were living under virtual feudalism because of Salazar

The southern feudalism was a state of affairs which long preceded Salazar. He was not responsible for this system; I meant to say only that he protected that system and in so doing basically drove the poor to socialist ideology.

It's unfortunate, but there is no trick for that, practice is the only answer. Give a look on int's /luso/ - Fio Lusófono.

Btw, it's quite impressive for someone with only 5 months

I'm 3rd generation Portuguese. My grand parents came from the Azores, Faial to be exact. If I moved there to learn the language would I be well received as the full-blown American that I am?

Somewhere in Lisbon, looks like. Do you know the year of the photo? Looks around the time my grandparents left.

probably

I think this picture was from the early 70s or late 60s. I found it in Observador.

Linda foto, onde?

Salazar created the middle class in Portugal. The sons of the people who drank the marxist kool aid became middle class.

But I will agree with you for Alentejo, even though things were changing already in the 60s.
youtube.com/watch?v=l7qs_nfLMSc

Cool. How are Portuguese women compare to the materialistic princess' that are American women? Better wife Material?

Parque Eduardo VII

Is this Saldanha? I can't tell

dunno, Last time I went was when I was 14

portugal's a beautiful place tho, and everyone's pretty laidback

>Parque Eduardo VII
É uma área interessante em Lisboa, eu realmente preciso visitar Portugal

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how does one fix Portugal

is it too late?
is revolution the only option?

you physically remove all socialists, democrats, communists and egalitarians

Lisbon looks so empty

How does one fix ?

Economic freedom is always the answer.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom

Bingo.

no. i mean how do we move from how the government is now to that?

This. And get rid of all the EU shills and career politicians like Costa while you're at it.

biased af, namely investment freedom, fiscal freedom, financial freedom and business freedom

You have to energize the youth against the social democracy/socialist status quo and throw stereotype bones at them (like animal rights bs, solar energy, whatever) but then you must end the welfare state, abolish the minimum wage, lower regulations, and essentially get the state the fuck out of people's way. And restrict immigration.

It's obvious. You gas the kikes.

>end the welfare state, abolish the minimum wage, lower regulations, and essentially get the state the fuck out of people's way
no

>and restrict immigration
yes

There are lots of ways in doing it. You should read this book.

mises.org/library/new-liberty-libertarian-manifesto

what would you propose then?

based Pedro for linking us to Murray "Unleash the Police" Rothbard

>Restrict immigration
>Heavily promote fertility and the family
>Very draconian laws for politicians abusing their power, but they are very well compensated. Adopt a moralistic tone towards politics in general
>Keep the welfare state but provide more incentives for people to save, namely by selling bonds to the public
>Promote national pride by using RTP more effectively (what about a well-funded series on Portuguese discoveries?) and starting in primary school, like we did during Estado Novo
>Industrial policy to provide benefits to create new industries/sectors in Portugal and diversify it. It's essential to help new comers as they are providing so they benefit completely from what they have done, instead of providing positive externalities to copycats (read on industrial policy in Singapore, Korea and Japan, and on Dani Rodrik)
>Define a new type of law in the constitution that, once adopted, cannot be changed for at least 20 years unless like 4/5 of the parliament vote to repeal it, as to credibly commit to policy changes.
>Give more freedom to professors to help low performing students and pay them well for it.
>Introduce massive policy evaluation programs in health, education, social security, fiscal policy, etc. by creating more independent institutions like UTAO.

can't say I don't agree with your preferred form of statism but good luck keeping all those changes intact after your first term.

The battle has to be won in the media and in parliament first.
CDS is the best party to do this, atm, but they need an internal revolution.

although I believe getting rid of the welfare state would be the best incentive to promote diligence and far-sighted people

>draconian laws
does that come from ayylmaos etimologically?

Would you guy's keep the "Secular state"?

Several issues with that:
1. People with disability need help and I don't think it's enough to rely on charity. Tax benefits for people who donate to charities are also an option;
2. The elderly and the people who will become elderly in the recent future are dependent on the current system.
Also, people are incredibly short-sighted by their own nature, not by incentives. The social security system was created because of this, not despite of this.
At least, force them to save a % of their income in a private institution, instead of paying taxes to social security.
3. Unemployment benefits are still an insurance against being suddenly out of a job. You need to reform labor laws, and the previous government made some right things on this, but the most important, the dual labor contract system, is not solved.
For the same reason as 2, people will not save. They are short-sighted by default. Again, at least, force them to pay a % of their income to a private institution, if they're employed.
4. Schooling will always need benefits for the poor.
5. A public health system simply works better. You can have a private one, though. The current system of health in Portugal is fine - just introduce policy evaluation by independent institutions, so you can always monitor what's being done.

I don't know what that is
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draco_(lawgiver)

My father is Portuguese and he is loud as fuck, now I am curious about how loud the Spanish are.

On paper, yes; in practice, no. I'd do it like Salazar did, desu.

>POORtugal
>relevant in any way shape or form