Communism

[Logan Ramirez]

Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.

Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage.

What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:

>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need.

>Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."

>To acheive such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said.

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/

ML uses a philosophy called dialectical materialism, see here:

marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm

It is reccomended that you read some of the critical works of Marxism-Leninism so you can make an informed assessment of the ideology.

Resources:

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/sw/

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/sw/

marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/decades-index.htm

marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/mar/11.htm

[Thomas Murphy]

Eat shit and die, commie

[Robert Foster]

Have a bump.
Also, Socialism needs to be achieved prior to Communism or it is doomed to devolving into practices such as Stalinism.
It's about integrating an idea. And once the time is right, reinforcing and stabilizing it.

[Hudson Perez]

...

[Adam Carter]

>"From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."
Who determines what my abilities and my needs are?

[Jonathan Evans]

Go choke on a dick or something faggot

[Christian Evans]

why do retards pretend that this 20th century ideology is still relevant? the cities are not full of abused industrial workers, there is no "means of production" to sieze. you're living in a service economy. your rage against walmart and starbucks needs a new name.

[Julian Gray]

That's an actual good question, and is, one of the fundamental question we have to answer before claiming any socialist/communist regime.

[Nolan Wood]

>tfw commiecucks STILL can't refute pic related even though it's posted in every one of their dumbfuck threads

[Noah Green]

You. That's the whole point. Socialism is about waking people up to the reality that modern day efficiency means that one person doing x work no longer equates to x results. In simplest terms, you can hire one man to operate a machine, such as a forklift, to carry 100 times the weight he could originally with his arms. Yet the forklift operator doesn't live in 100 times better than a factory worker in the industrial age.

[Justin Rodriguez]

Go back to leftypol

[Joshua Gonzalez]

hmm yes that is actually something I had not thought about before

[Isaac Adams]

I believe very advanced artificial intelligence in the future would manage the network of local communes.

[Owen Hernandez]

>Yet the forklift operator doesn't live in 100 times better than a factory worker in the industrial age.
yes he does.

[Hunter Walker]

So you are convinced this ideology is right even though you still don't know how it could possible be implemented or how it works. You decided an ideology is right and now that you don't want to change your mind, you will attempt to make it right by twisting and turning definitions.
This is why you will ultimately fail. Just like the jew.

[Jeremiah Smith]

saged

[Thomas Morgan]

Anime was made by capitalists

[Jaxson Ross]

I believe it is right to implement communism yes I do.

[Leo Flores]

>in simplest terms
>assuming you can refute a complex economic system with three words relating to the livelihood of a forklift operator.

[Austin Walker]

Commies get the fuck out

[Josiah Rogers]

Daily reminder that communists are soulless and therefore it's never wrong to kill them.

[Alexander Fisher]

The Jew needs to be dealt with. I think crumbling their corporate mantles is a good start. I would look away if they were mobbed and strung up later by good men such as yourself.

[Luke Edwards]

Fuck off you commie pieces of shit

[Luis Phillips]

I think the creator of anime in Japan was interested in the creation more than the profit from it.

[Brody Murphy]

Manga artists are actually severely underpaid and overworked unless you make it big. And even then you are still overworked and at the mercy of corporate publishers.

[Grayson Ward]

I voted Trump. Honestly the dems are a lost cause and democratic socialism just leads to a welfare nanny state. It's just capitalism with extreme pandering.

[Brandon Johnson]

Fuck off normie, this is a national socialist board.
Join us lad, say with me:
HEIL HITLER!

[Jonathan Cooper]

Heil Hitler!

[Liam Fisher]

Bolshevik Revolution received funding from Wall Street.

[Asher Wilson]

But Hitler is dead, who are you talking to?

[Connor Kelly]

shhh... no words now only ideas and HEIL HITLER!

[Bentley Jones]

Am I being trolled here?

>You. That's the whole point.
Ok. I understand your explanations. But they don't really answer my question.
Let's say I have determined/decided what my abilities and needs are. How do I interact with a communist/socialist/marxist/... society with this knowledge? Can I go to some place and say I can do this and that for work and in exchange I need a flat of this size, in that location and this amount of food per month? How does this work in the grand scheme of things?

[Ethan Allen]

answer is here:

[Easton Hughes]

I'm a Strasserist mostly. But if the Jew can be subverted by non hostile means I would be for that as well. I think a lot of anons are just being edgelords when they heil hitler. A strasser ideology would still hate and gas niggers and jews but only because Jews control the government and niggers are lazy leeches on society. "muh skincolor" is a retarded meme and needs to stop. The Jews will always use this to subvert us with their "useful idiot" liberals.

[Lucas Reyes]

Cute communism anime girls are probably the best arguments for communism that I've seen before.

[Wyatt Hughes]

Basically the government gets smaller and is suplemented with a huge cabinet of advisors called "soviets". In theory you want the soviet group to be as big as possible and have a huge breadth of representation. IT workers, engineers, coal mine managers etc. Ultimately NOTHING would be out of reach of these soviets in terms of government secrecy with consideration for national security. From there down, local governments would operate very similarly to what you see now. Jobs would pay you based on effort not merit so if you need more cash you put in more hours or get a better education. However, due to the reduced maintenance of big government and corporate entities skimming off the top, your paycheck will be sizably larger anyway.

[Alexander Young]

Fuck off you wop proxy faggot.

[Sebastian Walker]

Infograph

[Lucas Perry]

see explain it however you want, it never works in the end. producing just enough for people's needs is unreasonable and it's much easier to produce an abundance that people can choose to consume or not to consume.

what exactly do you think your life will be like in a so called communist society?

[Hunter Lee]

"Liquidate the capitalist class" AKA murder and steal because you are too stupid, undisciplined, and lazy to get your own stuff

[Ethan Mitchell]

Producing based on need is exactly that. Need. If you want a new TV there will be a group of highly qualified people hired by the government to produce it at reasonable tiers. Think the base model is complete crap and fails 2/3 times you leave it on for 2 hours? Leave a review just like anything else! These are still the same people who would work virtually anywhere else. Only the employer changes. Just like how there are organizations that review cars, there would be those that review tvs.

[Adam Garcia]

>Basically the government gets smaller and is suplemented with a huge cabinet of advisors called "soviets".
>gets smaller
>huge cabinet
Hmm

>In theory you want the soviet group to be as big as possible and have a huge breadth of representation.
Hmmmmmm

>Ultimately NOTHING would be out of reach of these soviets in terms of government secrecy with consideration for national security.
Ok. So they decide if the abilities and needs that I report in are realistic. But what if I think my abilities are worth more, say, because I've got a really good idea in mind for more efficient machines or something. How does this get settled? Is there a court for that or something? And how does the court decide what my inventions are worth?
That's my main problem with it. How do you value things even before they have been tried out?

[Adam Fisher]

That's incredibly idealized...
"Oh let's just make 1 TV for Joe Schmo because he requested one! Requesting 1 LCD screen to build TV."
"You got it, 1 LCD screen being produced for 1 TV by request. Need some ICs and other parts to assemble this."
"You got it! ICs and parts being assembled by request. Need raw materials for this order."
"You got it! Shipment of perfectly measured raw materials inbound for Joe Schmo's TV."

Everything relies on the chain working together properly. It's too idealistic, like I said before. If you produce purely for profit, you don't need to measure out every component for the same yield to get your product, you can just get a ton of everything and make a whole bunch. Simple.

[Henry Bailey]

Lol fascists can't compete

[Daniel Howard]

sage

PRESIDENT ELECT DONALD J TRUMP
greatagain.gov/
donaldjtrump.com/
>Trump Playlist FUCK BOTS
pastebin.com/X9qQJVKJ

APPEARANCES
>Trump Rally in Fayetteville, NC 12/6/16
youtu.be/IUreExyfw5o
>Pence Rally in New Orleans LA 12/3/16
youtu.be/75MpVO7L3Vw
>Trump on F&F 12/2/16
youtu.be/OQsfIg7KYag
>Trump/Pence on Hannity 12/1/16
youtu.be/z5HEJLCSW0g
>Trump Rally in Cincinnati OH 12/1/16
youtu.be/udan3dllTyk
>Thanksgiving Message from President Elect Trump 11/23/16
youtu.be/BUnv6Kb7syQ
>A Message from President Elect Trump 11/21/16
youtu.be/7xX_KaStFT8
>Trump Objectified 11/18/16
youtu.be/qi1df15VmCs
>Pence emotional return to Indiana 11/10/16
youtu.be/gjhueWGkzaA
>Trump Rally in Grand Rapids MI 11/7/16 THE FINAL RALLY
youtu.be/uaJuQSMNxkM
>Trump Victory Speech 11/8/16
youtu.be/ESYEUWrW39I

FUN STUFF
>It's the most wonderful time in 8 years
youtu.be/sW85ZcswiqM
>Just The Two Of Us
youtu.be/8kuqOWLg3Tc
>The Truth about Trump Protesters
youtu.be/1d9lm-T87AQ
>Election 2016
youtu.be/VDHUAGdhVOE
>Clinton landslide
youtu.be/wNGyFRjGC3Y
>SJW Meltdowns 1
youtu.be/dLbkKQ4_-EM

INSPIRATION
>Hold Back The Night
youtu.be/ldnH5ms50Jc
>Inauguation of Fire
youtu.be/XKf8jSiaghU
>In the Hall of the Trumpen President
youtu.be/XqEddipbpkw
>We Are The Silent Majority
youtu.be/3lrrPG5iPAk
>American Comeback Story
youtu.be/pm8n9qVIK_8
>AD: Trump's Argument for America
youtu.be/vST61W4bGm8

[Jordan Thomas]

kys

[Christian Ward]

Sage

[Colton Cooper]

Soros is a Capitalist.

[Camden Sanders]

Degenerated workers' state
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerated_workers'_state

[Mason Edwards]

No one said it was free or made to order. You butchered everything I tried to say.

[Nolan Fisher]

Oh look another /retardgeneral by leftypol

Neato torpedo!
Here have a sage!

[Jaxon Powell]

anyone read adorno or deleuze/guattari? what did you think

[Julian Murphy]

"There is no doubt that the USSR today bears very little resemblance to that type of Soviet republic that Lenin depicted in 1917 (no permanent bureaucracy or permanent army, the right of recalling all elected officials at any time and the active control over them by the masses “regardless of who the individual may be,” etc.)."
Leon Trotsky: The Workers' State, Thermidor and Bonapartism (1935)
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1935/02/ws-therm-bon.htm

[Jordan Flores]

Soviets are just people specializing in different fields. If you were a doctor and had years of experience you could apply to be a medical advisory on the soviet council. These are more akin to professionals turn college professor rather than carrier politicians.

[Jacob Cooper]

>literally the exact same thing just with a different name
if it devolves into that shit so often it's probably not a very good system

i never said it would be free, i just left that little bit of complexity out. Talking money for a moment, it'd be MORE expensive to produce everything by request rather than just as much as you're capable of because you can't just do bulk shipments of stuff and need instead specifically measured ingredients so you don't have excess, otherwise the whole damn system is no longer Communistic.

[Asher Adams]

dirty dumb commy scum

[Nicholas Baker]

reminder that niggers cant live in a western society

[Isaac Baker]

...

[Henry James]

...

[Luke Johnson]

...

[Wyatt Martinez]

Reminder to sage

[Austin Edwards]

...

[Austin Bailey]

...

[Adrian Perry]

>If you were a doctor and had years of experience you could apply to be a medical advisory on the soviet council.
So you mean I should apply for the soviet council to greenlight my own abilities/needs? Is this the standard procedure if someone wants to produce a new invention?
If yes, how does the application get handled? There will be a shitton of inventors in the soviet council after a while, no?

[Caleb Scott]

...

[Christian Flores]

...

[Zachary Wood]

If gommunisem is so great, how come it's never worked out? Why have so many mass-killings, civil wars, and starvation periods happened under gommies?
Bonus points: Why are all gommie economies literally shit?

>people not saging

[Lucas Mitchell]

>SAGE IN ALL FIELDS

[Jayden Johnson]

Holy fuck. There is no "by request". The whole idea is to take advantage of the latest technology to reduce work time needed so their aren't rich fucks like soros pocketing the difference. If you need a tv. By one of the many tvs on the shelf. Government sees that there is a lack of tvs? They make more. You don't fill out a form and wait 7 days while they manufacture your order you autist.

[Adam Rogers]

Presenting socialism and communism like this just confuses the retards we need to get voting for it.

You dont need to go this far. Socialism is simpler and doesnt need this extreme.

You get rid of owners, bankers, and incestors who arent doing any work but collect the profits. Replace every owner with a single entity who pays workers according to the work done and distributes the remainibg profits wherever society needs them. So instead of nonworkung owners sucking profits, they can go into schools, business expansion, healthcare, etc.

Make it clear to the voters that competition to ensure quality still exists. Make it clear tgat socialism is not the govt controlling every aspect of your life.

[Cameron Thomas]

Bc communism turns into state capitalism aka dictators. Need accountability for those in the govt

[Gabriel Jackson]

>government makes more
I died a little inside when I read this. Trusting the entire government to manage production of MILLIONS of goods is so absurdly stupid that I feel perfectly fine going ad hominem for a moment.

No wonder you get so much corruption in Communist systems, the people in control of production aren't kept in check by a government, they ARE the government. In capitalist systems a producer needs to appease the customer so they can profit, but if the government takes the place of the producer they have no standard to live up to, they can produce all they want at the worst quality and because there's no competitor to the GOVERNMENT and if the item doesn't sell, so what? They have taxes and all the control in the country, why would they need more money?

This is all a much more complicated means to an end that would not be different under capitalism and that has seemingly been tried many times before with the same shit result: corruption, too few goods to go around, collapse.

[Camden Flores]

>devolves into that shit so often

Only the Soviet Union was called a degenerated workers' state in Trotskyist political theory because it started with the dictatorship of the proletariat until Lenin died and Stalin took over.

All other communist countries are called deformed workers' states because the dictatorship of the proletariat never existed there even though capitalism had been overthrown.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deformed_workers'_state

[Jason Hughes]

No. The soviets aren't inventors. They are advisers and basically a check and balance. They are normal people qualified via a respectable resume. Just like college professors. I mean, if you WANT to invent something as a soviet there's nothing stopping you. But inventors would go basically come up with an idea and pitch it to government investors. If the economists deem your idea not shit they will likely hand you a corporate card and frequently check it for abuse. Once you have a product you can oversee it's production at a factory. That would essentially be your new job if you so choose. You are still employed by the government, and no you wouldn't make millions, but you would make substantially more than the average mook and the workweek would likely be cake.

[Dominic Harris]

>ree it isnt real communism because of minute differences

It's just a coincidence that all attempts at communist societies result in the same "oh that isn't real communism" situation.

I'm perfectly happy living as a capitalist and always have been. The system currently in place works great and I've been plenty happy with it.

[Joseph Scott]

KV POWER

youtu.be/mbNcXaEcyRg

[Joseph Nguyen]

>Sup Forums claims to be armchair experts on spooky gommunism
>S T I L L thinks commies were/are pro-Hillary
>S T I L L thinks commies see a significant difference between the likes of Hillary and Trump

We're not #withher. Maybe you guys did get your record corrected after all.

>inb4 CPUSA promoted Clinton
CPUSA is a liberal-infested honeypot and has been for years.

[Kayden Lewis]

only cultural marxists (fucking liberal socdem retards) say that

[Christopher Bailey]

You're an idiot. The only reason Lenin's communism failed is because Stalin started disappearing soviets who spoke up. Back in the 1920's this was far easier to accomplish. muh human nature. muh work enthusiasm.

[Thomas Russell]

...

[Sebastian Murphy]

Your lack of arguments is compelling, capitalist shill.

[Nicholas Jones]

"trusting the entire govt" the anti-govt sentiment is retarded. govt can be done correctly or incorrectly. govt is not an evil monster out to get you. govt should be structured as a fairness ensurer. the principle of govt is fine.

also the "govt" doesnt need to control much. plenty of managers and workers who can manage a business for fair pay. the govt job is to take profits and redistribute into societal needs.

"not kept in check by govt"

yes thats why america has checks n balance system. why we have courts.

obviously there needs to be accountability and transparency. socialists arent against this. i personally would like to see death penalty for any govt agent caught cheating, lying, stealing etc

"govt has no standards"

you can have socialism with competition to ensure quality. you make MORE money for better work. that doesnt change.

you know the only thing the owner does is provide capital right and soak up profits? an entity could collect the profits, pay workers more, and use the rest in society. the owners make enough profit to own 90% of the wealth. that money used to incentivize quality and advancement instead of golden penthouses

[Jack Price]

This.

[Jace Carter]

>We're

Topkek

[Logan Cook]

What point are you trying to make?

[Aaron Hall]

If Lenin's Communism didn't have a way to deal with a corrupt and power-hungry politician gaining a high political office, how can it be considered a good political system?

[Jaxon Roberts]

How did it feel getting BTFO by Belgian Sean Bean, Pinko Spico? Also stop defiling Honorary Aryan Art with your communiggerty.

[Lincoln Brooks]

Bragging about being the best at ripping shit off isn't something you should be proud of, communiggers. Isn't even a good shoop 2bh.

[Levi Rodriguez]

Read my other posts.

[Easton Long]

>You get rid of owners, bankers, and incestors who arent doing any work but collect the profits.
By which you mean you replace them with a single owner, banker, and invenstor: the state.

>Replace every owner with a single entity who pays workers according to the work done and distributes the remainibg profits wherever society needs them.
How can you give a small group of people power over everyone's food, shelter, healthcare, and pay and expect any kind of long term benevolence? What do the people do when it seems "society" needs half the country's GDP invested into the great leader's pleasure palace?

>So instead of nonworkung owners sucking profits, they can go into schools, business expansion, healthcare, etc.
Or anything else individual officeholders decide is important.

All Socialism does is consolidate all the unearned power and corruption found in your average business into a single entity, and then gives that entity the ability to maintain an army and form social policy.

[Brody Bennett]

Read my other posts

[Daniel Sanders]

As I understand communism, the ideal is a "stateless, classless society."
How does one achieve a classless society outside of state intervention on a mass scale?

[Landon Nguyen]

I just did. The only check you describe to state-wide overreach and control is your council of soviets, but you repeatedly describe them as just advisers. Is there anything the Government specifically needs their approval to do and do the Soviets hold and explicit powers the rest of the government doesn't have, so that there's an actual balance of power?

[Elijah Kelly]

When are you useless cunts going to answer my questions? all you've done is bait and talk amongst yourselves like the regressive little sniveling cunts you are. I swear to god, I haven't seen a single valid argument from a "leftist" this entire shit thread; you all genuinely sound around the age of 14, are you the dick holster for your aging lib soc-studies teacher?

[Charles Murphy]

Do you have a response to this, or should I go do something else?

[Chase Powell]

You actually did not read. I already explained how they operate and what they are capable of doing. Claiming I called them "just advisers" is factually wrong.

[Xavier Perry]

actually you described stalins interpretation of marxism, he wanted to force industrialissation to pull ussr out of africa tier level it was after the tsars, so that there would be possible a real pass to communist regime described in Kapital

[William Ward]

Do something else. You are not cut out for reading.

[Joshua Hill]

correct, there would be a state.

the state would not control where you live, what you eat, etc....you still buy what you want. you still own personal property. but you dont own other peoples work.

the role of owners is provide capital, take profits. could have a state take profits, not buy penthouses and yachts, and put into healthcare, education, etc

indidual officeholders would end up putting the profits somewhere correct. either individual or group

"consolidate power" you dont give up voting for socialism. people still vote on issues. yes there is still an army as there always has been.

you dont lose checks n balances. you dont lose the courts. and you put in accountability on state agents which the current system should already have but doesnt. socialism is anti owner at heart. thats what needs to change. there is no reason to give up competition as a whole.

[Nolan Cooper]

2 mistakes. The army would actually be downsized. About as much as you need for defense. The militia however would be greatly fortified. The ability for the citizenry to take up arms and coordinate against domestic threats is vital.
The second thing is property ownership. You do not technically "own" the property, but at the same time you do. Everyone does. The land belongs to the people not the highest bidder. However it's a meme to say people are going to invade on your land or something. Or steal what's yours. The absolute worst thing that will happen, aside from the average burgler that all societies suffer from, is maybe a fine for letting your land or living space go to shit.