So, actually trying to be neutral here... not saying Trump should or shouldn't be impeached. That's not the issue. The issue is the threat.
I'm saying that Trump is risking a lot.
Maybe he doesn't understand impeachment (or does, and is counting on republican control) but if he truly is going to try and destroy the establishment and fight entrenched politicians in Washington, he's put a big target on his back.
Article II Section IV: "The President, Vice President, and all civil Officers of the United States shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors" is a huge net for any potential opponents to use. "High crimes and misdemeanors" just means anything that is seen as degrading the office he holds.
People have been impeached for simple things like "drunkeness" or vague stuff like "abuse of power".
They could nail him on the emolument clause (if a single foreign diplomat stays in a property of his) or any conflict of interest (Comcast has him on the payroll, they end up in federal court all the time). He is protected from federal conflict of interest laws, but those are crafted to prevent potential conflicts... actual demonstrated conflicts are just tried as "corruption".
So, what's the point? I think both sides need to realize one thing. Trump has left himself wide open for an easy impeachment excuse, and the moment that the Republicans don't want him anymore (or the Dems get back in somehow) he could have articles written against him.
He's got a gun to his head if he makes big waves, and has given the establishment the power to make it look like he pulled the trigger.
Ok, I think I understand your key point: Trump is vulnerable to impeachment because he is going to be making politically unpopular decisions on a regular basis?
Justin Jenkins
under 50% politically unpopular. Who gives a flying fuck about leftists.
Lincoln Collins
So Fast and Furious, Benghazi, Obamacare, providing material support for ISIS, using the IRS to target liberty groups, NSA spying on the WHOLE FUCKING WORLD, and over-reaching executive order after over-reaching executive order somehow... won't get a president impeached? I know I am missing a few...
And we are worried about Trump? If they want day of the commiekill then they can try.
David Clark
Well, there are two parts to impeachment.
The first is doing something that is theoretically impeachable. Trump has that in spades.
The second is that you have to get enough congressmen and senators to go along with it. This is political (and what protects Trump for now).
Say he makes waves that piss off some older, established repubs. All they have to do is get together, talk to the democrats (who would all likely want to boot him) and they can reach those numbers. The second part is political, which is why some people get impeached through the house but acquitted by the Senate (depending on who controls what, and how they feel about it).
So yeah, because he has legitimate excuses to impeach, the only thing stopping his impeachment is politics.
If he makes politically unpopular decisions (and the republicans see him as hurting them, or just want Pence in) they could boot him in a month.
If he was squeaky clean, he'd be safer because it would be super obvious what the legislative branch was doing... and they'd shy away from looking that bad.
Alexander Green
>if he truly is going to try and destroy the establishment and fight entrenched politicians in Washington
Ayden Fisher
All of those things could have gotten Obama impeached if the political will had been there for Democrats. They just realized that none of those things were strictly unconstitutional/illegal, or directly traceable to the President (which is how Reagan got out of Iran-Contra).
It's all politics, but Trump is violating the constitution on day one. No one will call it out until they WANT to call it out. Nice little leverage for the Republicans to keep him in line.
Noah Edwards
*Democrats and Republicans. Sorry there. You need a two thirds. I dropped the rest of that sentence.
Josiah Phillips
Could the republicans win next time if they did that? They won because people wanted Trump reforming them.
Andrew King
Fast and Furious violates the 2nd amendment. IRS scandal violates the 1st amendment. NSA spying violates the 4th and 1st amendment. Obamacare is unconstititional - everyone by the fucking supreme court knew it.
You were saying? What the fuck has Trump done that is anywhere NEAR that?
Hunter Thompson
Also "muh worry" is not going to work here. Everyone knows Trump OWNS all three branches of government, and will soon own the supreme court for the next 30 years. muh worry is not going to work here... shill
Andrew Johnson
>The President, Vice President, and all civil Officers of the United States shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors" is a huge net for any potential opponents to use. "High crimes and misdemeanors" just means anything that is seen as degrading the office he holds.
Is there any actual proof of any activity of this kind?
>People have been impeached for simple things like "drunkeness" or vague stuff like "abuse of power".
Who? Which president? There have only been three impeachments. One being Bill Clinton and frankly if you are looking for evidence of corruption in a presidential candidate...Hillary and the Clinton foundation comes to mind. I realize that everyone is worried about the source of email leaks these days as opposed to the content of them, but I was just watching some clips of Bob Woodward comparing Hillary to Richard Nixon (one of the other 3 impeached presidents).
>They could nail him on the emolument clause (if a single foreign diplomat stays in a property of his) or any conflict of interest (Comcast has him on the payroll, they end up in federal court all the time). He is protected from federal conflict of interest laws, but those are crafted to prevent potential conflicts... actual demonstrated conflicts are just tried as "corruption".
Is there any proof of this?
>Trump has left himself wide open for an easy impeachment excuse, and the moment that the Republicans don't want him...
He has the majority. It's always possible. Some could throw him under the bus, however if it backfires, it's gonna come back onto them.
Bill Clinton was impeached but still served out his term. Impeachment does not mean removal from office. He still remains, to some, a beloved figure. If Mr. Trump keeps doing well and his supporters approve, I don't belive anyone would risk doing anything.
He's not even president yet and he's already done very well.
Aaron Johnson
I just said that all of those things could have theoretically gotten him impeached. Seriously, read.
Except for Obamacare, because the Supreme Court decides what is constitutional, like it or not. But whatever, it'll be repealed in like, 3 months.
Trump will have violated Article 1, Section 6, Clause 2 the moment a diplomat stays in his hotel. It's something personally tied to him as well.
You have to understand. The violation is the spark. The political situation is the gasoline. It matters much more for impeachment.
People have been impeached under the constitution (the Pres, VP, and federal civil officers all fall under the same regulations) for things as minor as DRUNKENESS.
Another for failing to provide financial records.
Seriously, the requirements are super vague, because "high crimes" only means that you did something that reflects poorly on the "high" office. There is no hard definition.
Joshua Morris
not worried. neither are the American people. That's a great way to start a violent revolution though!
Landon Garcia
I'm less worried about revolution as I am with the continued Russophobic propaganda and censorship grabs at "fake news". Whether these things are true or not. It's dangerous and irresponsible.
Michael Davis
All impeachments (including President, VP, and Civil officers) have the same constitutional requirements, and are in fact mentioned together:
> Article II of the United States Constitution states in Section 4 that "The President, Vice President, and all civil Officers of the United States shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors."
While there have been only 3 presidents, there are other examples to look at.
Impeachment is basically a recommendation to remove, and forces the Senate to decide if they should be. It's basically charging with a crime, and the Senate is the judge.
Also >Is there any proof of this?
Ineligibility clause of the Constitution: >No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time; and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office.
>Emolument: a salary, fee, or profit from employment or office.
If his companies (which he privately owns) receive any money from a foreign power, he violates the letter of the law.
But that's not the point, the point is that it just sets him up to be at risk. He will violate the constitution, but they won't pursue it until it benefits them.
Austin Cook
>if one foreign diplomat stays in his property >also bibi Muh they're not diplomats. Good thing he sold all his hotels for marketing rights
Joseph Sanders
Well, I'm no lawyer and this is where I leave you. I'm sure that Donald Trump of all people has proper attorneys and knows how to protect the interests of himself, his family, his companies, and most importantly the nation.
Alexander Gutierrez
Whoops, my bad. Copied the other "emolument clause"
This is the relevant one from Article I, Section 9, Clause 8
>No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States: and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.
Carter Taylor
You have to worry about it for 38 more days brother. 38 days. I hear you tho. Sorry for calling you a shill. You seem ok.
David Campbell
You have to do something illegal to be impeached, ignore all the liberals screaming it's about to happen because it's just wishful thinking based on their feelings.
Brody Garcia
opps. I am toooo tired to be typing. I didn't call you a shill, but I agree with you totally. Cheers AND goodnight sir!
Austin Lee
>Trump is violating the constitution on day one
Source: The Chocolate Starfish Journal
Jonathan King
Article I, Section 9, Clause 8 >No his isn't, source: my feels
It won't happen due to politics, but the moment he is sworn in he will have done something illegal under Article I, Section 9, Clause 8.
Well, will "likely" have done so. It depends on if a diplomat/foreign officials is staying in one of his hotels at that very moment. Probably though.
And it's a slam dunk thing to impeach him on if they wanted to, as he's been warned about it and that part of the constitution is pretty much saying things like "you can't be president if you do this/are this"
Wyatt Jackson
I don't belive that was me but I'm sure everything will be okay. The majority America is kind of boring for the most part isn't it? We've never been invaded. I'd like not to be nuked. If anyone should be prosecuted it's the media in this country who have rilled people up and pushed an agenda that has caused damage to the unity of the country. George Soros for one, if it is true that he funded BLM, should be held responsible for the actions of riots carried out in the groups name.
I don't think he, anyone on this board, or Reddit believe he will really expect to be called "The God Emperor". If anything it's a nickname like "Ike". Then again, I saw a report of a college campus where a student demanded to be referred to as "Your Majesty". So, if that is Mr. Trump's preferred designation, you should respect that, least be disrespectful.
Benjamin White
That may be better for he put even more jews everywhere
Grayson Williams
Not a problem user. Cheers and goodnight.
Elijah Cox
Trump isn't stupid enough to do something like that, nor are the people advising him
Jace Phillips
The title thing isn't what is going to nail him, it's the emolument part.
Basically, if he receives any pay from a foreign power, he has to report it to Congress and they have to consent to it. Each time/individually. So each time a foreign government or one the employees of a foreign government pays Trump for something (hotels, rent, etc.) he'd have to get Congressional approval.
This is an actual thing. Presidents have had to do this for things as minor as receiving a horse, and those were auctioned off and given to the Treasury.
Jonathan Anderson
We all know its going to happen. Reince Priebus hated Trump now he loves him? The GOP are just waiting for the right moment to backstab him.
Bentley Allen
Obama should have been impeached years ago. It just doesn't happen anymore.
Julian Lopez
Well, first off he would need to break the law in some way while in office. Nothing he has done or will do before inauguration can be used to impeach him. That's why if Clinton won, she wouldn't have been able to be prosecuted for the email thing.
Tyler Bailey
>destroy the establishment please. He is licking the ass of establishment with his nominations
Ryan Lee
Even if he steps down, benefits to descendants still count under legal definitions of benefits.
Like, if Obama was approached by the President of Uzbekibekistanstan and he gave Obama's daughters a sack of gold (but Obama nothing) it would still be a violation of this clause for obvious reasons.
Previous presidents have tried, but the only agreed upon way to avoid it is to use a blind trust, which Donald doesn't like... so his lawyers might be in a pickle.
Lucas Thomas
As I said, im no lawyer, but I'm sure he has himself covered. Politically speaking, I don't think it would do anyone any good to destabilize the country by going down that road. It's been a rough go for everyone. Why drag it out further? It's time for healing.
Aiden Perry
36DD CHESS
Austin Cox
Just one person from a foreign government has to pay rent/hotel fees. If a single such person is paying for a day in one of his hotels on his inauguration, he'd violate the constitution the moment he was sworn in.
Dominic Cooper
isn't he getting paid to be the executive producer for celebraty apprentice?
that seems suspect to me...
Aiden Collins
Utter tripe. You don't have to approach Trump nor the CEOs of Trump Inc to get a reservation in one of his hotels, and there's no court in the land that would accept legally paying for a hotel room at a corporation owned by the children of the president as a bribe.
Didn't he sell the physical hotels? I thought he just markets the name? That's not the same as owning the establishment, is it?
Thomas Lee
>thinking politicians care about healing
It's not a matter of doing good for people user. It's all about when it benefits the establishment to dump him. They might wait a year, or two... or maybe three... so we'll be healed up enough in their eyes.
And Trump doesn't always have himself covered so well legally. He usually gets out of his dicier legal cases by settling.
Settling in this case would mean stepping down.
Joshua Gomez
If his popularity in those people's states is high, then they won't risk it. Unless they are bought. They care about reelection too. If they wait up to three years, I strongly suspect that he won't be removed from office. Up until then, he can continue to do good work for the average American.
Dylan Sanchez
It isn't a bribe, it's an emolument.
It's much broader than a bribe, because the founders saw things that weren't "technically bribes" all the time in Europe at the time of the Constitutional founding.
The definition of an emolument is just "a salary, fee, or profit from employment or office". If any part of his company's income is from a foreign source, he's in violation.
Seriously, it's why other presidents used blind trusts.
He sold a lot of them, all the ones his Father left him... but he still owns physical buildings.
Ayden Russell
>his company's income Which is why it won't be his company when he enters office.
Now, if there was a mention of his family being unable to earn any income, then he'd be in trouble. But he's not going to be working except as President, and he's not taking money for that either. He has his savings to fall back on.
Jordan Gray
>Family can't take money Gee wizz better not have any kids ever and try to be President because I can be removed if a foreigner stays at my kids bed and breakfast.
He's still on the payroll for a lot of things (Comcast pays him, etc.) and pay to children is still considered in most legal circles, as it's where his inheritance would go anyway.
Like I said, it still counts as a bribe or gift if I give it to your wife/kids rather than you.
Connor Davis
OP, why do you think Mike Pence is the VP? He's there so that the democrats try and keep trump in power so mike pence doesn't take the seat.
Elijah Taylor
It becomes more of an issue if you advertised that child's bed and breakfast to foreign diplomats as a nice place to stay (wink wink).
Which Trump did, when he advertised his Washington DC hotel as a nice place for diplomats to stay.
John Cooper
>“I don’t think that he is going to be cohosting with me, even though maybe it’d be fun to have him as a guest advisor or something like this if he has the time,” Schwarzenegger said. “I don’t know if he has time or not.” Sounds like it's an "in-name-only" producer credit. Producers don't have to be involved with the show beyond its creation to be credited in every episode.
Children of the president are allowed to have jobs and be paid for it, that's not a bribe to their father. I'm starting to suspect you're a troll.
Eli Butler
This is concern trolling bullshit. Trump is no longer a controlling factor in his businesses, all of it is signed away to his family. He is 'just' the President now.
And lets be real, every president since LBJ had JFK blasted has been dirty and complicit. Nobody is worried about this outcome; it really would result in a rightwing revolution.
Daniel Moore
He's getting executive produce credit, but that in itself is risky legally because that means he will be on the payroll of Comcast.
Who he will be in charge of regulating (and Comcast often is overseen by executive departments in anti-trust actions).
Also
>Children of the president are allowed to have jobs and be paid for it, that's not a bribe to their father. I'm starting to suspect you're a troll Yeah, of course. The issue is when he advertises to foreign diplomats to stay at (what will be their) properties and has his children sit in on diplomatic meetings.
If they were just doing their own thing and got money for it, it wouldn't be an issue. The law is kinda funny like that, where context matters.
Leo Diaz
I hadn't even thought of that. No offense to Mr. Pence, but they'd be even more worried about him. If he was removed from office within a year or two.. No way...they couldn't take that kind of...shock.
John Mitchell
He hasn't done that yet though, he said he'd reveal his plans on the 15th.
Also, if we are being real here... that's my whole point. Trump has to be complicit in what is going on in DC (or within margins) or they can easily give him the boot. He's got too much public legal dirt to be able to avoid it if they want him gone.
Anthony Hall
not happening.
just let him do his thing. wait 4 years and then vote.
Austin King
It would result in a complete collapse of trust in the American system. I'm sure that would make some people happy, especially those who read things like Rules for Radicals.
Levi Cooper
And I'm saying if they give him the boot before he's even had a chance to do anything, the public will cry foul and riot for REAL, and the local cops won't do shit about it. And when the silent majority is angry enough to riot, they don't burn down their own businesses, they burn down the governor's mansion and seize city hall.
Jeremiah Hughes
That'd make for some great television and I'm sure those who have been promoting such things all year, like CNN and MSNBC would get a boost in ratings.
Elijah Price
It would result in a purge, and possibly escalate to a war externally during the power vacuum.
Anthony Cruz
This
>Be pres >Have kid >Kid owns a deli >Foreign diplomats eat at deli >I am suddenly impeached
Michael Gonzalez
Exactly.
Which is why he'll stick around. And why they'll let him until he starts to challenge the establishment.
Either that or use a heart attack gun on him, he's the right age/weight/lifestyle for it to be passed off. Considering the CIA is getting chastised by him (and the CIA developed the gun...)
How much would the silent majority riot if a 70+ overweight man died of a heart attack early in his term?
If he is too big a threat and still popular, they go that route. If he isn't popular anymore, they impeach him.
Jackson Perry
you're putting a whole lot of effort into these shitposts and i just want you to know you're still a faggot
Ian Perry
Or you know he just goes Literally Hitler on the 20th and none of this bullshit matters. Do it, I'm ready for that cash uniform and a chance to kill leftists.
Asher Turner
Ratings? Dude, people would be out retaking the country, not watching CNN. Do you think Syrians or Ukranians sat at home and watched CNN during the height of shit hitting the fan?
Austin Hill
Go back to /x/.
Yes, people would be surprised if a healthy DJT dropped dead. You're reaching.
Austin Cox
That's not /x/.
At his age, weight, height... and even assuming no family history or additional conditions...
He has a +50% of having a heart attack in the next decade. Heart attack is a really common way to go, and can hit someone who is otherwise healthy. You can go calculate the odds on Mayo, they have a tool for that (because so many Americans die from it we have good odds).
The only people who'd be really surprised would be /x/ denizens.
Asher Turner
*otherwise appearing healthy
Obviously you need some plaque formation/cause for ischemia, but even 20 year olds typically have initial plaque formations in their vessels.
Jackson Reed
I hope not. Last I checked the left isn't keen on owning firearms and some of the militia groups are way too gung ho for such a thing. The military would step in to restore order I'm sure.
I would. Hopefully they continue providing coverage. Their work is highly valued by everyone after all.
Do they have a heart attack gun? That's amazing! You know I picked up a link earlier to an article about Russia weaponizing an octopus. I'd rather we had the octopus weapon. Just my opinion.
Connor Miller
Go be a cuck somewhere else.
Brody Harris
We probably have better things now, the heart attack gun was declassified back in the 70s.
Matthew Hill
I'm sure they do, but do they have a weaponized octopus or giant squid of some kind? I'm sure the navy would appreciate it.
Alexander Russell
>They just realized that none of those things were strictly unconstitutional/illegal It's illegal for the government to pay hostage ransom, which is what the Iran payments were.
Connor Long
Fast and the furious was a debacle too. Failure after failure. Kind of dissapointing to be honest.
Wyatt Adams
> gifts, emoluments, offices or titles
Which one is he receiving?
Adrian Miller
So that fish restaurant Obamas kid works at it bribing him?
Xavier Sanders
Not "strictly".
That's my point. The majority of impeachment is political, not legal. The legal stuff is easy, and very obvious for Trump because this will be a personal dealing, not a result of executive action.
With I think 2 (out of 19) exceptions, impeachments have all been for personal bias/misconduct... rather than executive action. Executive action is usually rule upon by the courts and either reversed or upheld.
High Crimes and Misdemeanors are ruled on by the Senate (after impeachment in the House).
Landon Davis
Emoluments
If Obama had told people that it'd be great for diplomats to eat there, yeah. That'd be crossing the line.
Aiden Allen
Trump will be in violation of the Constitution and yes you could theoritically impeach him right away. All you would need to do is prove foreign government employees are staying at his hotels and he is technically profiting from it. Trump is acting like he is invulnerable and as long as the Republicans are in control of the government nothing will happen.
I just don't think he will be able to resist corruption. He will probably be our first president to get thrown out of office. It doesn't matter you're ideology, this is just based on his actions since the election.
Henry Moore
Pretty sure Trump has a gigantic email cannon aimed at the heads of "the establishment".
Are they stupid enough to try and impeach?
Kayden White
Idk im sure he will say that but im not sure people will agree. If he did something illegal, people will be pissed.
Jeremiah Brooks
He's working for someone?
If business dealings were illegal then why isn't he required to just surrender his businesses when he can't do anything related to them?