Germany

Germany.
>Had the most charismatic leader out of all the countries involved in WW2
>Had the most incentive to fight hard
>Had the most advanced technology in the war
>Had the best economy for a long time in the war
>Had managed to purge Jews out of their country
How the fuck did they lose, Sup Forums? All the factors involved pointed to them having an easy victory.

They invaded Russia. Big mistake.

no resources was a big factor, by the end of the war they didn't have any materials left for making tanks, which is why despite the superior design of the tiger II its armour was less effective than the tiger I because they had to us composite materials, also rommell lost in africa because he ran out of gas.

they still could have won but didn't push to stalingrad or leningrad whatever it was called at the time

1944 was their highest year for production actually and the trend would probably continue in 1945. The big issue was lack of fuel and experienced tank and plane crews.

>Had the most charismatic leader out of all the countries involved in WW2
Benito was way more charismatic senpai

Shut the fuck up Mario

Cause Hitler didn't let his generals do their jobs.

>britain
>larping about nazism and fascism
you werre the ones that ruined everything, you shut the fuck up, ye cum guzzling bufoon

Oil. Its all about controlling the oil

You sucked at all other aspects that OP mentioned
There's nothing good in italian fascism except the architecture, you people didn't even hate jews

Numbers user.
It was always numbers...

...

>Had the most charismatic leader out of all the countries involved in WW2

Sure. Having a charismatic leader isn't going to change geopolitical realities and resource constraints though is it?

>Had the most incentive to fight hard

Not really. Many countries were fighting for the continued survival of their state.

>Had the most advanced technology in the war

You mean how the Russians had better tanks, the Americans had better firearms and the Brits better technology (radar etc)?

>Had the best economy for a long time in the war

They had the "best economy" in the sense they had a massive head start building up arms. America, Britain and the USSR all had much better access to resources. It was a matter of time before they caught up.

>Had managed to purge Jews out of their country

Isn't going to change much of the actual realities of war.

Germany was in a really bad geopolitical situation. Defeat was basically inevitable.

highest year of production but the quality of the material was worse, they were facing shortages of the steel used to make the Tiger I so they compensated with composite materials, causing the tank (especially the turret) to be exceedingly brittle especially along weld lines. the soviets did extensive testing on the tiger II in 1944 and came to that conclusion, i could find the original documents if you're interested.

Hitler underestimated the consequences of western intervention, fueled by early victories over much weaker nations.

france gets me every time

forgot pic related

>the france chicken running away
kek

i dont even want to waste my time talking to vatnik

> war was mostly fought on their territory (damage to infrastructure, civilian moral)
> 3 superpowers vs 1.5
> smaller population of fighting age men
> fought against equally able whites and zombie slavs

once the U.S. joined, the war was lost
1v1 they would have won against any or the 3 on neutral soil

>Germany was in a really bad geopolitical situation. Defeat was basically inevitable.

Wouldn't they have Forseen this? Did they end up going after lands they lost because they would have resources? (Like taking Poland)

The Nazis were very pragmatic, I'm sure they would have thought this through and i have trouble believing they were that full of themselves.

thanks Nigel, always clearing things up

>Had the most advanced technology in the war

Apart from Stug IIIs and Pz.IIIs/IVs the big cat tanks were generally overengineered and had incredibly poor reliablity

The Panther could make it only 150km before the final drive needed replacement
the final drive was made for a tank 2/3 of its final weight

The Sherman could drive 5000km statistically before the least reliable part, the tracks would break.


The Tiger I had okay reliability if the driver knew what he was doing and wasn't overstraining it

They only had around 1340 of them though and it was not long after its introduction already obsolete


The King Tiger had similar if not worse problems with realibility like the Panther


And they didn't have many Panthers or King Tigers either

And in general they made the huge mistake of hoping that new untested and unreliable technology would give them a advantage instead of streamlining the production of and further developing the tanks they already had

By the time germany surrendered, Russia already had the T-54 ready to deploy, so even if they had a little more time it wouldn't have mattered


And their general approach at tank design "bigger gun heavier armor" was faulty and wrong. Not only did that limit a tanks mobility, it was also more costly.

While the other nations were close to developing the concept of the MBT

Hitler had an alliance with Russia at one point. He probably shouldn't have fucked that up. Red army took over Germany, then lost its own Soviet Union years later from mistakes. Two nations destroyed. Drugs, STDs, low birthrates will be the death of us.

>dino-bong hanging back
lol get in the bin with that shit, the US should be represented by a carrion-eating pterodactyl

don't forget the jet airplanes Deutschland just developed
> the V2 rockets
> the nuclear developments were getting close to full production (Hardwater reactors in Scandinavia got bombed)
> bomb proof submarine station

>The Nazis were very pragmatic

No they were not. The Nazis were very ballsy is what they were, and that worked for them for a long time.

> the nuclear developments were getting close to full production (Hardwater reactors in Scandinavia got bombed)

They were not even close to having them ready at any point


The Me262?

sure, a heavy, also unreliable plane that had a engine lifetime of around 50h

Again a rushed and untested "Wunderwaffe" attempt in vain

By the time they had them ready, the allies already achieved full air superiority and the british had jets operational as well


The german Kriegsmarine was also nonexistant compared to the middle to late war navy the allies had


the war was over for germany the moment Kampfgruppe Zentrum split up to help out Kampfgruppe Nord


And Me262 shooting down troves of allied aircraft and Tigers killing T-34s and Shermans left and right from 5000m distance only exists in fiction

>How the fuck did they lose, Sup Forums?
3 front war, no resources, no manpower, closest big ally was not motivated for the war, etc.

tigers killed fucktons of t-34s hans what the fuck are you talking about

>On July 8th, 1943, a Tiger tank commanded by Franz Staudegger took on fifty attacking T-34 tanks as the only armored vehicle on its side (though it did have infantry support), destroying twenty-seven enemy tanks and forcing the remainder to break off their attack and fall back. Staudegger's Tiger then itself ran out of armor-piercing ammunition and retreated behind the lines, but it had stopped the Soviet attack.

But they fucked Russia in the ass during WWI, and also in WWII before the disaster.

>they

they as in the german gov't, should i be saying we?

>How the fuck did they lose, Sup Forums?

Russia

>Had the most advanced technology in the war
>70% horse drawn military

yes

ignore italian posters its what we all do

trade me a Norwegian qt pic

That's Panther tho.

don't forget Rom :)~

US gave enormous support to russia (food, weapons, etc.). If not for US, Russia would have probably fallen

Zerg Rush

From what I've heard they wasted too much money on useless technology and there were just too many soviets for them to fight?

don't worry, i'm german. my great grandpa died in a soviet attack on an east prussian airfield, his wife died of typhus, my grandma was 10 years old and had to walk from konigsberg to schwerin while keeping her 3 younger siblings alive. my grandparents met in an orphange in schwerin in the 1950s. i'm honestly lucky to even exist.

You also forgot the part where Hitler was retarded and ordered all me 262s to be used as bombers or night fighters... up until last few months of the war

sorry, here's the tiger pic. i have a pile of documents about it.

>rommell lost in africa because he ran out of gas
Very underrated

They didn't have the best technology or economy. This is a meme from video games, history channel and movies.

Tiger and Tiger 2 were already outclassed by the Joseph Stalin tanks. Not to mention a T-34-85 is enough to knock out a Tiger 1.

Yes. In 1943 and during the retreat from russian partly Tigers and german tanks in general took out lots of tanks

Otto Carius wrote however, that this wasn't attributed to the Tiger being some relentless killing machine, but rather to the bad training of russian tank commanders and crews in general


most german tank commanders were trained that battlefield awareness is crucial and most of the time Carius was peeking out the hatch to spot targets

While T-34 drove with hatches closed.

"Blind and deaf" as Carius wrote


Also early T-34s had very bad observatory devices in general
But killclaims in general in german documents are often heavily inflated. Online you'll find often the battle report of 8 Ferdinands knocking out 54 T-34 tanks around the area of Nikopol around the 25th and 26th November 1943

However in russian sit reps to high command it is revealed that they didn't even have 3 tanks in the area at that time


Think of Hitler and his politics what you want, I don't care for that as it's mostly subjective


but people should stop believing in this clean Wehrmacht OP bullshit

instead of being proud of overengineered (albeit cool looking) big tanks, germans should be proud that in the immediate wars following the defeat we'd go on and design the Leopard 1 which continued to be the best MBT until the arrival of the Leopard 2

THAT is a feat

Not a tank that broke it sprocket wheels and track links when trying to neutral turn

Poor France. So sad!

> 1939-1945

Of course there were a lot of horses you retard. Germany had the most advanced technologies in many fields which is why the US was happy to first take all the jewish scientists and then fight over the ones that didnt leave with the Soviets.

Who do you think designed your early space program?

also because the tiger could engage the t-34s effectively from 2000m while the t-34 optimal range to penetrate the tiger's frontal armour was 300-500m. the only way to beat a tiger was to lure it into a circle of anti tank guns by firing one from an exposed position and targeting the side armour of the turret.

It's not only training. It's also deployment time. Same goes for air combat aces. Probably the main reason they got so many kills was because Germans were deployed nonstop with no rest... and also the germans always sought the easiest victories, which is perfectly sound. Later in the war, numbers also mattered. It would be easy to get a a bunch of kills as a german tank or plane crew if you were attacked non stop by lots of less trained men.

arent tanks only useful for crossing no mans land in yuropean land wars and fighting other tanks?

>Otto Carius
I never understood why they were calling tank commanders aces. Shouldn't the gunner be called ace since he does the aiming and pulls the trigger? Sure commander tells him where the enemy is and aprox. range but still.

You need to Rise again.

>they had a massive head start building up arms.

Agree with the rest, but you fucked up here. After WW1, all countries signed disarmement in the treaty of versailles. France never stopped rearming, Britain just stopped but did not demilitarize, similar to Russia. In the end it was Germany as the only one doing full demilitarization.

When everyone got butthurt, the armament race started again by France in 1934. The others started making plans too and the Nazis were the last one starting the arms race, they just went a little bit harder than the others because they basically had to start from scratch while the others still had continued development, while france was strong for ground combat and sucked in the air, while britain developed new bombers. Same happening with the USSR which spend the most of them all on military even before 1939.

That the German military was great at the beginning of the war is just a meme, it was just for show. They ran out of aviation fuel after 2 weeks in Poland, ran out of artillery shells after 10 days already and they had to throw everything at poland for a fast win and even needed the soviet invasion to make it was enough. In the was was barely any military and France could have steamrolled in.... which they did but retreated out of fear of starting a world war ...

Basically this, during the second part of the war Hitler was already too drugged up by that retard he had as a doctor and made too many bad decisions. Not to mention there just too damn many enemies to fight and his allies were weak as fuck.
If Hitler would have received proper treatment (no drugs), would have prevented the US/Canada from entering the war by having killed the jewish agitators and got China on his side then Germany would have won the war.

hearty kek hans, not what i meant
t-34's couldn't handle tigers, seeIS-2's were a superior tank though, and the british had the centurion entering production which was essentially a fast tiger II with a better gun.

he's a martyr and will be remembered as such
glad you're here user
Respect for your family's fighting spirit
wish you and your people success in life

Don't get me started on fucking Hitler dude


man was a jackass when it comes to that

You probably know this bullshit Maus tank, right?

What most people don't know that, apart from being too heavy to cross any bridge or soft ground, it also had no means of repairing the tracks, which could be knocked out with a AT rifle

Only way of repairing it was with special equipment and A TRENCH under the tracks to access them

memer

> Russians had better tanks
You misspelled 'more'

> Americans had better firearms
You misspelled 'more'

> Brits had better technology
You mean Radar, enigma encoding and... what else exactly? More planes? More bombers? More supplies from America?

T-34-85s could engage a Tiger at pretty much every combat range and kill it easily

hitler was a retard

its that simple

those are 2 separate places.

That too

Early and mid war germany had lots of vets and battle proven men or at least people with better training than russians


That CAN be attributed to losing the war not as rapidly as they already did, but definetely NOT that germany had the best equipment

The commander also told the Driver what to do and aimed the turret by telling the gunner where to point it almost all the time

They were the highest ranking guy in the tank and did the most important job

like you said, the gunner only really pulled the trigger

All these morons itt, it was entirely the italians fault

you're full of shit, tiger frontal armour was impenetrable from a t-34 outside of 500m, these are copied from a conversation between carius and guderian

>None of these were effective against the Tiger at ranges over 500 meters. The Tiger had a great advantage over long distances. During the famous tank battle near Prokhorovka, the Soviet commanders tried to take advantage of the greater mobility of the T-34 and the assault guns by closing in to short ranges and shooting at the Tiger’s thinner side armor.

> Not all Russian cannon types could penetrate Tiger’s armor, but concentrating the fire of all possible guns on the tanks could heavily damage them, even to the point of stopping the engine or detonating the ammunition. The 76.2mm ZIS-3 cannon, using anti-tank shells, could penetrate Tiger side armor (at 300-400 meters) or destroy the running gear, while it couldn’t penetrate the frontal armor. Because of poor maneuverability, the Tiger could be an easy target for an anti-tank gun in defense. Only the 85mm anti-aircraft gun and especially 122mm A-19 cannon could destroy the Tiger at extended ranges. The Soviets made many anti-tank guns, up to 100mm in bore diameter, by the end of the war.

>You misspelled 'more'

Russian tanks where actually superior for the territory in eastern Europe and they developed fast tanks for roads way before barbarossa (not sure why .... right? ;)

>You misspelled 'more'
I would agree here

>More planes?
yes
>More bombers?
yes and better bombers. Big 4 motor long range bombers for carpet bombing. Hitler tried to ban these in 1935 or so and he focused on dive bombers for precision and barely were able for carbet bombing.

>More supplies from America?
And that too of course

had Speer been in charge of armaments from the beginning the war would of been won easily, Speer actually prolonged the war by almost 2years

>Leopard 2
>Better than M1A2

goy plz

>opinion of some third worldler

>Speer
What did he do?

I don't think any tank of the war would've been able to stop a 152 mm shell, short of a tiger 2. Even then the impact of the shell would've probably killed everything inside.

Yeah, but they were outnumbered.

It's a close call, but I think it is better


After all you guys still use our guns for it

Every fucking thread about nazi defeat....

Too many fronts, not enough Aryans and fuel

It's hard to win when the international Jewry mobilizes everyone against you.

This is such an Internet meme. Pls learn history.

Is anyone aware what happened to Russia in WWI? Is anyone aware how hard the Nips fucked Russia in the Russo-Japanese war just 35 years earlier? Russia had been completely obliterated multiple times before WWII by weaker countries than Nazi Germany.

Just look at how bad the Russian losses in manpower were. If it were just Russia v. Germany, it would have been a decisive German victory.

thanks lad, the prussian spirit lives on.

Albert Speer became the minister of armaments for Germany in early 1942 after Fritz Todt, the previous minister died in a plane crash he was Hitlers right hand man

No.

That's thinking in WW1 categories


In WW2 tanks had different roles depending on the nation

America for example had the Sherman mostly as an infantry support tank and their tank destroyers as well...tank destroyers

So the 75mm Sherman wasn't really designed to engage enemy armor, while the M10 or M18 were

Germans on the other hand always built their tanks with engaging enemy armor in mind as well

Brits had a whole different approach of it and so did the russians


it's a mess

Russia would have folded eventually if it weren't for Lend-Lease. Hitler's blitz basically took out most of their military equipment.

Rheinmettall guns are fucking beast mode that's for sure

Well yeah i figured that he became minister i wanted to know what did he do to prolonge the war? Reformed industry or something?

Nigger.
Leningrad = Saint Petersburg
Stalingrad = Volgograd

...

>How people think
What people? Amerilards?

How would he have gotten China on his side when he was helping Japan, his most useful ally, rape and burn their entire country you fucking faggot?

Real answer is he didn't believe in the atomic bomb. Should have dumped all his resources into that, would have won easily.

Do you think the world would be any better if Hitler won? Maybe but we'd probably circle back to wherever we are now, maybe he could have delayed the enevitable for a hundred years or so.

keks. that 'murica face

>Ivan actually believes that stale Russian zerg-rush maymay
Go back to your hacking.

...

name one person since the mongols who successfully invaded Russia and ill agree with your point

They where against nearly every superpower in the world.

Tiger had frontal armor of 102mm

The penetration of the 85mm ZiS-S-53 canon was 107mm at 1000m

And 2000m is not really normal combat range, now is it?

And they had around 30k of the T-34-85.

But yes, you're right. The 76mm armed T-34s could not penetrate the armor of the Tiger frontally.

But it also didn't matter because these T-34s were used as infantry support tanks and IF they met tanks they'd mostly meet Pz.IVs, Pz.IIIs and Stugs which they had no problem penetrating


because again, Germany had less than 1500 of the Tiger


As a sidenote, a tank doesn't need to be penetrated to be inoperational. The 131 captured in Tunisia was knocked out by a puny 6-pounder that disabled it's turret completly