This thread is for the discussion of any and all left-wing political ideology, including, but not limited to, Marxism/Socialism/Communism/Anarchi
>Socialism is an economic and social system defined by social ownership of the means of production. (Workers democratically own and operate the places in which they work, as opposed to private power aka capitalism)
>The means of production are non-human inputs the create economic value, such as factories, workplaces, industrial machinery, etc. Socialists refer to the means of production as capital, or private property. Private property in the socialist context shouldn't be confused with personal property, such as your home, car, computer, and other possessions.
>In a capitalist society the means of production are owned and controlled privately, by those that can afford them (the capitalist aka those with capital). Production is carried out to benefit the capitalist (production for profit). Workers are paid a wage, and receive that amount regardless of how much value they produce.
>Communism is the highest developed stage of socialism wherein there is no state, no money, no class system. The means of production are owned by all and provide for everyone's needs.
Libertarian: Mikhail Bakunin - God and the State (short read) Thomas Paine - Agrarian Justice Noam Chomsky - Notes on Anarchism Anton Pannekoek - Worker's Councils
Capitalism literally means reward for the strong and capable.
Alexander Foster
Sorry buddy, no fag ideologies here.
Ryan Carter
Communism has no mechanism to tell builders what factories to build.
Thus it causes a society to over invest in inefficient markets.
Isaac Wood
Kys
Benjamin Phillips
>implying the meritocracy is real >supporting a system that has business operate like dictatorships over there employees >implying the 1% didn't get there through inheritance luck and ruthless exploitation of the working class.
Adam Perez
>what is the state? >what is cooperative businesses? >what is the unions?
Jaxson Anderson
>>supporting a system that has business operate like dictatorships over there employees >>implying the 1% didn't get there through inheritance luck and ruthless exploitation of the working class.
You are just proving my point. You are crying over the fact that brainless workers are getting exploited.
>ruthless exploitation of the working class
Ruthless = strong, you weak faggot.
Juan Rodriguez
>>what is the state? >>what is cooperative businesses? >>what is the unions?
None of those have any way to tell what needs to be built.
I love you goys. Helping us, the elites, to dominate the world, and the best part is: you do it for free.
Jackson Brooks
Corporative businesses act just like normal businesses but democratic? how could they not preform all the functions of a normal business?
Benjamin Harris
>kike general
Parker Bailey
>Corporative businesses act just like normal businesses but democratic? how could they not preform all the functions of a normal business?
In a communist society, prices aren't driven by demand. Thus there's no way for businesses to have information about what is needed in an area.
Ryan Perry
>brainless workers Nice. Everyone is worth something and deserve a say in there business. Communism aims to make everyone equal. Plus notice how the business couldn't function without those brainless workers. Weird right?
Liam Butler
Couldn't stores tell them how well something is selling so they can make more or less of it?
Carter Perez
not like anyone is seriously going to bother with your bullshit
Ethan Clark
this
John Smith
Nice argument.
Justin Wilson
>The means of production are owned by all and provide for everyone's needs
Brody Phillips
It worked in Yugoslavia.
Christopher Murphy
>Everyone is worth something and deserve a say in there business. Communism aims to make everyone equal.
No. Equality is illusion. Therefore your cringe-inducing ideology will never be taken seriously by anyone with some brain capacity.
>Plus notice how the business couldn't function without those brainless workers
Well a farm cannot function without tractors. Should we give more rights to tractors?
Kys, commie scum and stop blaming your failure on others.
Nathaniel Edwards
...
Jaxson Gutierrez
>not an argument Do we really have to argue? Go pick up a history book or go ask Venezuelans you fuck
Adam Smith
Oh look, THIS thread again
Alexander Perez
this dumb commie doesn't even know how to trip
Joshua Reyes
>multiple actual revolutions >will never be taken seriously
Julian Nguyen
Venezuela is not communist. The workers don't own the means of production
Samuel Richardson
>every time >EVERY FUCKING TIME "Not real communism"
Jonathan Kelly
This level of "Workers can fuck off there subhuman" is amazing.
Gabriel Anderson
DING DING DING YOU GOT IT. THE WORKERS WILL NEVER OWN THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION BECAUSE SOMEONE WILL DECIDE HOW TO ALLOCATE SAID RECOURSES YOU FUCKING IMP. INB4 MUH DIRECT DEMOCRACY, THE WORKERS WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO JUST CHOOSE.
Aiden Price
>Couldn't stores tell them how well something is selling so they can make more or less of it? Yes. Say we're talking about Ipads. The store will be sold out quickly until you're producing too many... But this is not the economically efficient amount of ipads. This is the amount of ipads that you sell when you charge $10.
Furthermore, where does the money come from that's required to expand the factory? What happens when demand changes and suddenly you have one factory too many? This represents a huge loss of wealth for the society that would normally have been paid for by the people who wanted iphones, but now it's a socialized cost.
Hunter Rodriguez
There actually have been more jews involved in capitalism than in communism
Xavier Williams
Its not though. communism is the state or the workers owning the means of production. Valenzuela has a whole lot of private industry. Its not communist.
Jonathan Russell
And what happened to those revolutions?
Exactly.
Who said they can fuck off?
Stop being so sensitive, filthy commie.
Charles Gutierrez
The business would be owned by the workers who would decide how to invest the profits.
Camden Gray
>the state lmfao you just ended yourself.
Henry Price
Cuba is much better than other Latin American islands. China is now a world power.
Lucas Thomas
How does it feel to get your entire ideology destroyed by an austrian jew?
John Rivera
I would rather not give the state that much power but if necessary as a transition state it would be OK.
Adrian Stewart
Well China has nothing to do with communism in 2016.
>inb4 it is led by communist party
Tell me next the Best Korea is a republic.
Cuba is a hell hole.
You are stupider than I imagined.
Cooper Kelly
top notch moron, that inneficiency is what Marx described as 'market failure' and only exists in capitalist societies.
Christopher Edwards
Cuba is a hell hole because of the embargo.
Brody Jenkins
Your point being?
Evan Bailey
Chinese communist party appoints all the CEO's and stuff. They control indirectly most businesses.
Isaiah Stewart
Its not socialism fault its the united states fault. Plus its still better than other Latin American countries.
Charles Scott
Jews are involved in corporatism not capitalism
Juan Bailey
>not real capatalism
Brayden Watson
Just because it's not market failure doesn't mean it's not failure. And I don't think you even know what you're talking about. He wasn't saying anything at all about market failure.
Do you know what market failure is?
Blake Kelly
No they do not. You can't lie to me about my other home country.
It's still a hell hole and it is their own fault they are under embargo.
Communism is shit and you literally need to prevent people from abandoning it.
Mason Sanchez
Just look at all that extra bread. I wonder what we could possibly use it for.
Ethan Morris
So CIA intervention and an embargo shows a fault in socialism how?..
Joseph Butler
Only comments on excess bread and doesn't comment on shortages of literally everything in every single communist nation ever.
Austin Lewis
Go plot to butcher the human spirit elsewhere please.
Adrian Ward
Socialism is weak.
Explains why weak faggots like you want it.
Henry Watson
Most famines are crisis of bad distribution or of over production. All shortages in communism are real shortages of not having enough.
Lucas Roberts
meme
Lucas Green
SAGE A G E
Sebastian James
And capitalism would fare better?
Jace Moore
I can't keep up with this double think any longer. Go see in venezuela if its a natural shortage.
>not real communism.meme
Cooper Johnson
>All shortages in communism are real shortages of not having enough. wow you don't say.
Sebastian Rogers
see
David Foster
Exactly.
>inb4 muh exploitation of idiots and third world countries
Could not care less.
Matthew Young
How would capitalism fare better?
Thomas Parker
It's the opposite. Famines in capitalist societies are handled by prices. The price rises so people import more and produce more and consume less. Meanwhile people who really need food have it on top of their shopping list, so to speak.
In communist countries the government controls production and distribution. The source of most famines is underproduction- a decision by one person which no one else can correct. This is then followed by political distribution, which can be used as a weapon of suppression or toward other political ends. For example- fuck the farmers, we need impressive buildings / an impressive army / fuck Ukraine rebels, they must die
Connor Foster
...
Robert Price
>mfw fucking non country belgium has to defend sanity
Jonathan Smith
>transition state
(((transition state)))
Eli Cox
So how do capitalist countries fare better?
Hmm really made me think.
Look around you colossal faggot. Capitalist countries are doing what they want with socialist collective stupidities like Cuba.
Owen Cruz
dont mind me
Ayden Hernandez
>no one has posted the screenshot showing lebbit conspiring to turn Sup Forums into their personal kool-aid dispenser
Owen Myers
if get >>KYS and stream it
Blake Rodriguez
i kek'd
Brandon Kelly
>guise lets spam the commie general again for the 238685th time it'll totally work this time >guise lets post the poplular vote thread for the 9th time today it'll totally work this time >guise lets have another communist revolution it'll totally work this time i'm sensing a pattern here
Alexander Parker
Name a similar Latin American island with capitalism and lets see how there doing.
Jacob James
Friendly reminder that socialism has been debunked since 1920 with the economic calculation problem.
Jose Moore
>do X and I will give you some of the money that you generated for my company however I will keep a share even though I didn't do the work.
Sebastian Parker
>Latin American Tries to single out half browns to make capitalism look bad, but hides Europe and north america
Jose Phillips
>I came up with the idea for the job and facilitated payment for you >But i did the work a monkey could do and deserve all of it
Jason Morgan
Those countries are in completely different situations. They cant be compared.
Jordan Robinson
Stop shifting goal posts.
The fact that you have to delimit the scope of assessment to fucking islands in Latin America is pretty embarrassing.
Communism and socialism = weakness Capitalism = strength
Brody Richardson
No. The boss still gets money but instead of him deciding how much money he gets a council of all the workers in the business do it.
Logan Long
Strong =/= Good
Isaiah Wright
Also remember the soviet union not being a world super power? Me neither.
Adrian Clark
Lol you must have been bullied a lot at school.
Cooper Ramirez
>Implying mob rule and direct democracy have ever worked.
David Morgan
You cannot be serious right now. They fucking collapsed and were running out of food and their citizens had nothing. Ten year waits for automobiles. I can't understand this.
Gabriel Roberts
Communism breeds unmotivated alcoholics.
Ian Foster
Soviet Union was a shit hole from which everyone wanted to get out as soon as possible.
In soviet union class distinctions were even bigger than in any capitalist country.
And btw, do you remember that socialist wonderland collapsing?
Juan Wilson
>The business would be owned by the workers who would decide how to invest the profits.
The workers don't know what's the best thing to do either.
Noah Allen
Its on a small scale of just the workers in the business.
