Radical /left General

That means, no SJW's, no identity politics, no queer theory, no Democratic Socialism, no Bernie Sanders, no radical feminism.
The left explicitly rejects liberal
capitalist ideologies such as libertarianism, anarcho-capitalism on the basis that they are exploitive of both the working class and the planet, neglectful towards the sick and the poor, as well as too individualistic without any emphasis on community.

This thread is for the discussion of any and all left-wing political ideology, including, but not limited to, Marxism/Socialism/Communism/Anarchism

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=zgKazTrhXmI&index=15&list=RDucJMBx6VjcY
nolanchart.com/article7878-national-capitalism-html
youtube.com/watch?v=xqXAW2snGMI
youtube.com/watch?v=a1WUKahMm1s
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Daily reminder to ignore and sage bait threads.

HOXHA DID NOTHING WRONG
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>/leftypol/ gets triggered after everyone calls them liberals

What is your opinion on Islam, /left/ user?

NEITHER DID TITO
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Religion is the opiate of the masses. Ban it.

:^)

absolutely haram.
theocracy, recommended by islam, is inherently hierarchical and detrimental to the workers' interests

tito was my favorite character tbphwy famm

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You are in for a bad time. What will your strategy be?

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the cuckest

your autistic info-graph doesn't change the fact that you learned communism (how to be a good goy) from your kike collage professor. you still are and always will be a liberal

You guys come in here to suck each other off!

the power of huge farmers

Abolish churches. Seize them with the red army. Then abolish owning religious text. Done.

hey it's professor X. i love X-men.
this is now a 90's thread

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lol get a job

youtube.com/watch?v=zgKazTrhXmI&index=15&list=RDucJMBx6VjcY

>The left explicitly rejects liberal
capitalist ideologies such as libertarianism, anarcho-capitalism on the basis that they are exploitive of both the working class and the planet, neglectful towards the sick and the poor, as well as too individualistic without any emphasis on community.
>This thread is for the discussion of Anarchism

It's trash like all religions.

That's Lenin.
whats missing in g_lag
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U

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So war, basically. Thanks for the answers.

true anarchism wants to destroy all hierarchy. Including capitalism.

national socialism is basically all of the above but better

Reminder that this is a 9 - 1chan thread, and belongs there.
>also
Sage.

no that's professor X. you know, the psychic guy in the wheelchair
gluag? what's a gluag?

LOL

>genuine question
is there any all left-wing political ideology that isn't marxism/communism/socialism?
>also:
I'm interested to know, seriously, how leftists distinguish between these three. In my experience, the definitions and distinctions of these three words vary from person to person (which is true with a lotta conservative ideologies, so i dont mean this as a critique, just genuinely would like to hear thoughts)

>also, you can't claim anarchism as a leftist movement. anarchism's only parent is itself, any allegiance to right or left would be absurdly dissonant.
>also I throw anarchism out because it's far too easy to be called a right wing idea, too, especially in 'murica

that being said, id love to hear any convincing cases for why anarchy is more to the left than right, not tryna be a close-minded prick about this shit.

I live in the woods. I dont want community. Go fuck yourself.

And if Im not allowed to freely associate with people in whatever way I want, say by coming up with a common trade unit for goods and services amongst myself and my 'community' of like minded people, then how is your system NOT oppressive?

The only truly free societal structure is anarcho individualism, where you can have your gay commune and I can have anarcho capitalism. Anything else is based on coersion and abuse of force.

ahhh ahahha.

never seen this before, goddamn most of Sup Forums must fucking despise this.

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>no SJW's, no identity politics, no queer theory, no Democratic Socialism, no Bernie Sanders, no radical feminism.

so no leftism in leftism thread

sounds about right you retarded faggot OP

I like the Falangists more but National Socialism is good too. Not to mention all of the communists that lost to the Falangists.

>is there any all left-wing political ideology that isn't marxism/communism/socialism?
Syndicalism, worker collectives, council communism
Marxism was an update of utopian elitist socialism. He grounded the theory in historical materialism and the dialectic. If you see history's movements to be expressed best as class conflict and economic evolution, you can be said to be a Marxist.
Socialism is a system where workers own the means of production, which still generally uses a market economy and has the prescence of a state.
Communism is a future state, after socialism has eliminated the need for the state to exist, as the govt/councils/collectives serve its function.

>>genuine question
>is there any all left-wing political ideology that isn't marxism/communism/socialism?

Kind of. There is social democracy which is kinda leftist (Bernie) Otherwise not really. Then there's anarchism but most of that can be fit into communism.

>>also:
>I'm interested to know, seriously, how leftists distinguish between these three. In my experience, the definitions and distinctions of these three words vary from person to person (which is true with a lotta conservative ideologies, so i dont mean this as a critique, just genuinely would like to hear thoughts)

Socialism - Workers owning the means of production.

Communism - A stateless classless moneyless society after socialism

Marxism - Socialism to achieve communism.

>>also, you can't claim anarchism as a leftist movement. anarchism's only parent is itself, any allegiance to right or left would be absurdly dissonant.
>>also I throw anarchism out because it's far too easy to be called a right wing idea, too, especially in 'murica

Originally anarchism was left and libertarian was a term for a leftist anarchist. Some still follow this definition and think ancapism is not a legitimate school of though.

>that being said, id love to hear any convincing cases for why anarchy is more to the left than right, not tryna be a close-minded prick about this shit.

National Capitalism ideology- nolanchart.com/article7878-national-capitalism-html
Thread Theme- youtube.com/watch?v=xqXAW2snGMI

This thread will appreciate National Capitalism. There's nothing wrong with profit, nothing wrong with wanting to live nice. National Capitalism never killed anyone. Except free helicopter rides.

anarchism can be described as any stateless system, which is inherently an anti-hierarchical idea, which moves it toward the left.
It is also a progressive mode of thought, and should thus be placed in the left wing.

As if it worked the first time.

I forgot about syndicalism.

Thanks for the cringe

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In Venezuela there is private industry. Its not socialism.

>"not real socialism"
see

hey thanks for the thorough reply, i could get onboard with your definition of socialism supposing there was relatively equal weight being pulled by each of the workers (a bunch of individuals getting together, as opposed to an overall anti-individualist philosophy that I feel would be overall demoralizing)
and i really like your distinction about communism being a future state. I dunno if it will exist on a large scale in any reality (not that it couldn't, just because people have such an ingrained hatred of the buzzword communism)
but i really fuck with your definitions, thank you for clearing this up.

>He grounded the theory in historical materialism and the dialectic. If you see history's movements to be expressed best as class conflict and economic evolution. . .
is there an essay by marx where he introduces this mode of thought himself?
im sure he references this idea in most of his work, but I'm talking one where he expresses exactly what this means

CRINGE AND SAGE

>inherently anti-hierarchical
to play devil's advocate, couldn't this be taken as an extreme conservative viewpoint? what with their dislike of big government? modern leftists in america are very much federalists, at least the politicians.

If you walk into an ice hockey rink and they say there playing baseball its not a fallacy to say they aren't.

Das Kapital
He was primarily a critic of capitalism, and spent 98% of his time writing about that. He was not a master imagineer of govts, nor did he invent the idea of socialism.

>bOYGn
Kek confirms leftitties are posh little boipuccies. Head on over to your local bOYGn for a boipuss check-up.

thank you.

i can see now how anarchism could fit into communism.
>but would the commune doll out law and order?
>or in this communist anarchism, are we just assuming that people have grown out of their evil and exploitative nature (since we've progressed out of a need for socialism, maybe the weeds are plucked by this point?)

good points here, but the Dems do not in any sense leftist, they are center-right by european standards.
Conservativism is always pro-hierarchy, as they oppose changing the existing social structure

if you are playing hockey and you fall on your ass, that doesn't mean you are suddenly playing basketball
"it wasn't real socialism" is the liberal equivalent to "I meant to do that"

I don't know. I honestly don't think a stateless society is possible. Because someone has to enforce order and that group ends up being a state.

thank ya kindly.

terrible segue, but i'm familiar with his concept of alienation, and my only qualm with it is that he associates alienation only with capitalism

it stands to reason for me that anyone who doesnt exactly fit the mold of ANY society, on the macro or micro scale, experiences alienation

Look up the fucking definition of socialism you faggot. Venezuela doesn't fit it.

Marx uses alienation in a few different senses. Primarily, he was talking about being alienated from the pride of work by being dissociated from making the completed product.
Social alienation is as you say.

what is left by european standards?
just anything more socialistic in nature?

>i meant to do that
why are liberals so immature?

I kind of agree, Marx uses Hegel to argue that communism is the Absolute Ideal, but I don't see any reason to think the ball won't keep on bouncing.

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Since most of you guys are Trump supporters, I find it interesting you appologize for Trump's letting go of the slogan "Drain the Swamp"

Both Hillary and Trump are the same beast, yet divided you and decieved you on the issue of Identity Politics. You are all the ultimate cucks

"a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

There is private industry in Venezuela. Industry not owned by the community as a whole. ITS NOT FUCKING SOCIALISM.

Podemos in Spain, Syriza in Greece,
Jeremy Corbyn in UK
example: Corbyn proposed a bill that would require any business considering selling the business, relocating out of country, or dissolving it to first offer right of first refusal to the workers to buy the company. If the workers voted to do so, they govt would loan them the money to make the exchange.
This is real leftist thought.

ah gotcha.

>alienated from the pride of work
sorta funny, because while I understand that pride is lost by not having (part)ownership at all stages of development, the idea of losing pride in work is one of the best critiques I've heard against socialism/marxism.

if individuals are 'forced' into collectives, they lose a sense of self, their pride in their own work.

while no one leads or exploits in theory, there is also no spiritual ownership of one's job because there is little choice in what or how they do it.

just funny how the critique can go both ways

>no SJW's, no identity politics, no queer theory, no Democratic Socialism, no Bernie Sanders, no radical feminism.
>This thread is for the discussion of any and all left-wing political ideology, including, but not limited to, Marxism/Socialism/Communism/Anarchism

>No horse shit
>This thread is for the discussion of cow shit

This thread is where jews and other pseudo intellectual sperg out.

Yawn.

>one guy owns a lemonade stand
>HUURR IT'S NOT REAL SOCIALISM SO IT ISN'T SOCIALISM FAULT
why don't liberals ever take responsibility for their actions?

>example

holy hell, that is one of the coolest things I've heard, I fuggin' love that.

it seems to me that sort of socialism would be a really handy *supplement* to capitalism, without being as oppressive to the individual. it's a perfect foil to corporate oppression, though.

would be a great check and balance to get going in america, and the ultimate irony is, i could see a lot of working class (traditionally conservative folk) really liking that, especially what with all the Trump people all prioritizing American jobs, and especially the working class ones.

how cool.

Do you think the governing bodies of the world encouraged the conditions necessary to flood Europe with migrants in order to provoke a right wing response, thereby suppressing any possible revolutionary activity?

I read about Operation Gladio, and see no reason for it to have actually ended, just evolved.

Also does anyone have some reading about the nature of the relationship between western europe and the US from a marxist/economic point of view? I heard an idea that w.e. is a set of colonies, not actually economically independent countries. What does colonialism look like, to Marx?

If you work at a factory, and you now get a democratic workplace in which you get to vote about company decisions, help decide how the money gets spent, there is actually increased freedom and ownership of your work. Not all leftist thought gives control to the govt, worker collectives are probably the best and most realistic idea the left has had in a while.
Here is a good video about them, but it's long.
youtube.com/watch?v=a1WUKahMm1s

Sage goes in all fields

Can you read?Are you really this retarded?

this is our safe space, get out.

anyone who uses pseudo-intellectual is almost, almost always exactly that themselves.

>offering no contribution, not even contribution in the form of argument and dissent
>hurr durr your ideas are dumb 'nuff said

moron.

it is objectively good to discuss ideas, no matter if a full-scale implementation of them is impossible.

we can always improve, you fuckwad.

This is my thoughts also. Dialectics are always continuous process, by definition.

thanks, friend.

i will bookmark and watch later. I'm outta here, but I really appreciate the conversation, helped to demystify a lot for me.

i am vury inderasted in your point about the democratic workplace as opposed to government control.

seems like government control is just national socialism, right?

so one or two guys have a job. is your shitty system so fragile? america can still maintain a strong capitalism even with a shit-ton of communes in it. why is socialism so weak?

I think immigration is a big concern for the working class: the larger the labor base is, the less power that unions and workers have in general, because the boss can just hire someone else.
I don't think it's a conspiracy, but it happens to serve the interests of the boss class, as well as give libs warm fuzzy feeling for helping the poor 3rd worlders.
>What does colonialism look like, to Marx?
Imperialism is the highest stage of Capitalism by Lenin covers this

what country are you talking about?

it ends up being very prone to exploitation by dictators, yeah. Later, senpai.

why cant Venezuela maintain socialism even with small spheres of capitalism? the fact that it can't speaks volumes about the fragility of socialism

Well said...in that vein, here is a specific left idea to discuss
>Nationalize all military contractors

Listen, communist rainbow tier children, communism lost. Your pipe dreams of replacing religions of myth with religion of state are oppressive thought police bullshit. You came here pissed about chairman Hillary losing, and now you literally jerk off to a Jew ideology that failed. You are pathetic and weak and no one would even give a watery shit what mental problems you have. Daddy raped you: cry moar. Mommy made you a sissy: cry moar.
You have zero concept of economics: fucking cry moar!

Because there economy is completely dependent on oil. And oil prices collapsed.

das it mane

same with america and it's still a capitalism. so i'll ask again why is socialism so fragile

Yes but america has other exports. Venezuela has Oil.

so it's fragile because it isn't versatile?

It was dependent on oil before socialism. Similar things have happened before with oil prices.

Capitalism is also incredibly fragile, as evidenced by the short business cycle, the constant boom/bust rollercoaster, and the many collapses which have required govt intervention to fix the market.
The only reason capitalism still exists is because of the power of collectivization to save itl

the fact that is can bust multiple times without completely collapsing shows that it is incredibly durable

We're going to have to cut off half of our dicks and give them to the women. Because that's how you share things equally.

Great Depression
Stagflation and Oil Crisis of the 70s
S&L scandal
2008 housing crisis
Great Recession
All fixed by the govt, using leftist policies.
The Free Market doesn't work.

I'm conviced, capitalism is great. God Bless the Rothchilds, George Soros, Standard Oil, and United Fruit

all examples of how capitalism can overcome anything. thanks man

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