How did Russia defeat the Nazis? pt. 2

Continuing from last night.

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youtube.com/watch?v=Giom5_byviI
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2 answers
1: Huge reserve (un-efficient soldiers but an insane number)
2: The winter
Remove one and the Germans win.

I don't see how the winter really affected them, Germany gets bretty cold senpai.

Called them racists while everyone cryhards untill nazis gave into the PC and handed over power

-Tsunami of troops because they were threatened with execution if they retreated.
-The Russian winter helped stall the Wehrmacht (supply lines mainly) enough for more troops to arrive.
-Hitler should not have taken control of the military. He even tried to get one of his top generals to help with the Russian invasion when shit hit the fan but that backfired horrendously.

German bad karma for sending bolsheviks to Russia in the first place.

>(un-efficient soldiers but an insane number)

Not really. The Russians mobilized a higher percentage of soldiers as it was literally a battle for their very continued existence. The unoccupied part of USSR did not have such a huge reserve advantage.

The Germans murdered more civilians, their actual kill ratios were not that much better than the Russians overall.

I think Hitler should've dealt with the western front before invading Russia. He tried to deal with two things simutaneously, which lead to his downfall.

I think Hitler should not have attacked Russia

If the Nazis needed Lebensraum they could have gone to space if only this stupid war did not happen.

Lol. Talk about backfiring!

>lol

Reddit is that way.

Question then.

If the United States and its allies had decided to declare war on the USSR after the defeat of Germany and had used nuclear weapons against the massed Soviet forces then maybe the USSR would've lost the war due to this problem you speak of, What were the USSR's reserves like after the fall of Germany? Could tactical nukes have decimated Stalin's fighting force and with it the fate of the USSR?

Here's a hint, 11,000,000 Russian soldiers died in the second world war.

The Germans took too heavy casualties in Operation Barbarossa. After the Soviet Union didn't collapse on itself as Hitler predicted, losing the war was inevitable.

Slavmagic

The sacrificed all of their vodka and did rythmic squatting until the earth split open and swallowed the nazis

Probably. The Soviets have bled not rivers but seas of blood at that point and their cities were in ruins while the US was relatively unscathed.

Of course the cost would have been enormous and the Americans did not want to pay it. The Russians stole the nuclear secrets relatively fast, too, and the Americans did not have many nukes in the beginning. There was actually a plan at one point for a total war before the Soviets catch up.

But the fact that the starting position of the USSR was much worse than the USA at the start of the cold war was certainly a factor for the eventual American Cold War victory imo.

Then again The Russians did have a shitload of dedicated troops.....

Because you cant fight in -40c without the right gear stupid.

Ask Napoleon

Exactly, they likely would've needed to create the conditions where the Soviets would mass their forces and then proceed to drop the atomic bomb on them, it would've given the allies a massive advantage.

Maybe the second nuke should've been used this way? It would've likely saved the U.S a ton of trouble in the future if it was able to declaw the USSR immediately after the fall of the Third Reich.

Russia had more soldiers than Germany bullets and winter

>Huge numbers thrown at them
>Destruction of supply lines meant that the Germans could not replenish very well
>That lead to alot of death and poor health for the Germans
>The Russians were supplied by the US because they were running low on about everything
>The Russians took dead German solilder uniforms and committed atrocities on innocents and blamed it on the Nazis thus terribly hurting Nazi moral
The Russians won only because of the rest of us kicking German ass and destroying supply lines. The Russians would not have won without our help they would have been destroyed.

They had help from the one true and only God: Muhammed.

Yes, I also think that not enough White people died in WW2............


But even if you look at this from a completely cynical and psychopatic pro-American perspective (rather than a larger pro-White/European one) where the lives of Russians are worth nothing, I don't think that the US will "save itself a lot of trouble". Maybe its elites, but the reason why the standard of living for the workers and middle class was constantly rising in the West until the USSR collapsed was because there was competition and the elites did not want the Soviet system to look more attractive to the masses. This alone was a huge benefit to the people of the West, as their governments were forced to be good to them.

1) Germany's economy was never prepared for a war with Russia

2) Germany had no clear idea of what defeating Russia in the war actually meant. Did it mean destroying the entire Red Army? Did that mean capturing Moscow? What would it have taken to defeat the Soviet Union?

Capturing Moscow: unlikely to end the war. Would provide Germans with transport and communication advantages but would not end the war no more than it did for Napolean when he took Moscow.

Destroying the Red Army: Was attempted. They killed about as many millions of Russians as you could, considering their orders were to encircle and Stalin's were to stay put. Even 3 or 4 million dead russians in 6 months wasn't enough killing fast enough. Once mobilized, Germany was fucked.

3) Russia defeated the Nazis in spite of Stalin, who was a terrible war time leader.

Not exactly the sort of argument I was looking for. Lamenting the destruction of war in the middle of talking about the efficient and effective use of military resources of it is sort of redundant, isn't it?

Either way, it would've likely created a unipolar world with the U.S basically driving the world economy. The future could've been different as I highly doubt other European powers or the U.S would've regressed into a totalitarian state in a relatively short period of time. But this is alternate history we're talking about, anything is in the ball park.

>Either way, it would've likely created a unipolar world with the U.S

Yes, and I am saying that's bad for everyone, including the regular Americans themselves, as we see from the unipolar world that we did get

Fuel froze in gas tanks it was so cold in Russia. Horses, which primarily pulled supply wagons for the German Army in WW2, froze to death because European horses were smaller and unaccustomed to Russia's winters. The supply lines were already precarious being stretched some 3,000 miles but add in a vicious winter where cars freeze unless you start fires under their engines at night and horses die from the cold, and you get nightmares. Nevermind the frostbite: Germans lost more men from frostbite than enemy action that winter of 1941-42.

The cold was absolutely a factor. The germans couldn't even get some of their heavy guns to fire, and meanwhile the Russian Siberian Troops drove their tanks up and down the German lines. It was Red Army inexperience and Hitler's "do not retreat" order that saved their gains in that winter, because they seriously lost 1,000,000 men.

Perspective: When the OKW estimated the Wehrmacht's Combat Readiness going into Russia, they estimated that 70% of their troops were combat ready.

Spring, 1942. OKW estimates 5% of the Wehrmacht's troops are combat ready.

man could you imagine if they retreated and fortified northern germany, to launch a second assault against russia in summer of 42? Woulda changed the whole game.

>I think Hitler should not have attacked Russia
I always wondered this. Why bother with Russia? If he didn't attack them they wouldn't have bothered to be in the war. What an ego. Just because Poland and France rolled over I guess.

russia pretty much won world war 2 on their own.

They didn't starve thanks to America. Also, commisars.

>Exactly, they likely would've needed to create the conditions where the Soviets would mass their forces and then proceed to drop the atomic bomb on them
Early atomic bombs didn't have that much advantage in power over simple mass bombings, and there were really few of them.

Millions of men plus America outproducing the whole world in weapons and the entire western hemisphere ganging up

Germans couldnt handle a war of numbers which it came down to

Just look at the stats on Allies army size vs Axis army size

>the Americans did not have many nukes in the beginning.
We only had two to drop on Japan. It's good Japan surrendered because we didn't have a third one ready to go.

/thread

japan surrendered because they got absolutely butt fucked by the russians in manchuria and were about to lose haikiddo. The tokyo fire bombings killed more than the nukes. In fact ,the nukes were entirely unnecessary as japan was willing to surrender so long as they got to keep the emporer which america let them keep anyways. Truman was an incompetent cuck and cost millions their lives for no reason.

Because Hitler didn't wait for Stalin to strike first. He knew that was the endgame the Bolsheviks already had in mind. The reason for the initial success of Barbarossa, among other reasons was because the Red Army was placed in an offensive rather than defensive mode.

Didn't know that Hitler could read minds.

Also Stalin is the same man who created the "Socialism in One Country" concept and purged the internationalist Trotskyites who wanted revolutions everywhere and one world order. Some of those Trotskyites will later become the neocons in the US.

The Red Army was so comically unprepared in the initial stages of the war because they were about to attack Germany any moment now.

Face it goys, attacking Russia was a fucking mistake.

Hitler was right about the Jews, but so was Stalin and many many people before them throughout history.

Hitler created an amazing system in Germany with real economic, cultural and scientific prosperity, only to have it all ruined from the blowback of the war.

The main thing he accomplished was kill millions of Russians and get millions of Germans killed in return.

By being the basiest nation in the world, you silly.

There is the Heartland theory,that is one of the possible explanations.

I don;t think so, Germany and Russia are both Heartland/continental powers per Dugin's theories

And a union between them would be good and natural.

-Support from the allies
-Bombing the shit out of them
-Poor German tactics

I don't mean Dugin,he's a fucking idiot,I meant the original creator Mackinder.

Union would not work,since it creates the duality of power and the inevitable struggle over control.

This guy. Throwing waves of unprepared dumb peasants wasn't enough to win the war. Only this guy knew how to correctly throw waved of soviet peasants.

>Germans killed more civillians
Civillians account to civillian casualties, not military casualties you idiot. Soviets lost almost twice the amount of soldiers the nazis did the entire war...

got sum proof for u aswell (only Eastern front statistics btw)

They had very little reserves after Bagration.

>-Support from the allies
>-Bombing the shit out of them
>-Poor German tactics
I think more than anything else, Hitler bit off more than he could chew. Russia covers like 9 time zones. Has brutal winters and is a huge country. It would be like Rhode Island attacking the U.S.

>The Germans murdered more civilians, their actual kill ratios were not that much better than the Russians overall
well done comrade! hero of the soviet union for your bravery and valor in spreading disinformation

MUH GAZZILIONS OF RUSSKIES CROCKED IN FIGHT
1. Soviet army was smaller than the German one in the first year of the war
2. Check the amount of people who died in captivity; Germans exterminated prisoners
Basically, the reasons why Germans lost:
1. They advanced too far and too quickly. That made their line of supply of their army very long, so they were forced to suspend their attack for several weeks; Russians regrouped and started to fight back
2. Their resources were limited. They had advantage at the beginning, but they couldn't produce as much, as Russians. And they didn't have mighty ally like the US who could have supply them with an analog of lend lease.
3. Russia didn't have (and still doesn't have, lol) good roads
4. A bit of muh climate had some effect too, but the effect wasn't as huge as Russophobes try to present

>best answer

youtube.com/watch?v=Giom5_byviI

German Civilian Deaths: 2 million
Soviet Civilian Deaths: 16 million

you fucking idiot

Because Germans at the time weren't educated in French history. Nowadays they're graduating with honors.

Very good post but people are forgetting the third factor- almost entire lack of the Luftwaffe aiding the entire push upto Moscow. But judging how dainty German hardware was in the cold maybe it's a good thing they didn't bother, but they might've made up for the ~2 month delay into

I thought Latvians were responsible for that

>bolsheviks

Since we're so nice we didn't conquer the world post WW2.

But it's cute that you unironically think the Soviets could've stopped us.

It took 5 years for them to get a nuke of their own. If we wanted to we could easily have BTFO the entire soviet union. We could've just re-armed the krauts and use them as our ground army and supported them with our airforce.

Nigger you have literally never experienced a real war for the whole existence of your country. Absolutely nothing on the scale of what Russia has experienced many times.

The spiritual strength of a Russian is at least a hundred times above what a soft fat retard like you can muster.

By the way, the main reason the Germans lost is hubris - the exact same hubris that you are displaying.

Had it not been for the US aid the USSR would perish, you can't deny this as hard as you try. Saying that your army was smaller in the beggining of the German offensive is also complete bullshit. They just weren't mobilized and the ones that were were prepared for an invasion.

Shilling hard for the same nation (or ideology) that gave Macedonia to the serbians and left our economy in shatters in the 1990s, good goy!

Yeah but at least we got the army to back it up

>By the way, the main reason the Germans lost is hubris - the exact same hubris that you are displaying.

This.

cbweaver.wikispaces.com/file/view/Stalingrad Primary Accounts.pdf

Dumb German account with your typical "muh fuhrer" (he even recounts his sperg-like admiration) Fuckers were brainwashed beyond the respectable nationalism.

Not entirely correct.
They surrendered because the USSR officially declared war on them I believe.
Before that happened they were hoping that the USSR could maybe help them negotiate better surrender terms with the US.

>the same nation (or ideology)

Why don't you rub the two neurons that you have to think about how stupid you look from the very beginning.

> left our economy in shatters in the 1990s

Our economy was ruined after 1990 by the west and their puppets, many of whom are communists by the way.

The unprecedented demographic, cultural and economic desolation after 1990 happened after we moved to the western camp and did not happen while we were with the Russians.

What about how the Russians lost to tiny Finland, can you answer that?

>Thinks west destroyed our country
>West funds project to better his standard of living
>Denies that Nazis handed us Macedonia on a silver platter and that Soviets stole it and gave it to Tito
You're literally braindead. High time you went back to r/socialism

>>West funds project to better his standard of living

oh it;s you again, should I copy and paste my comments from the previous thread too?

You are a fucking troglodyte m8

The United States had only prepared 3 nukes, trinity which was the first tested and then the ones dropped on Japan.

It took a long time to make more.

Soviets were hurt but had ramped up their production so much that they fixed up really quick

German Volk betrayed their Führer
(Actual quote from Fitler)

80% of Germans died on the eastern front, the rest of us did relatively little to the Germans

Holy shit get those Russian balls out of your mouth and open your eyes. Too much rusophilism can corrupt your brain activity.

get those nigger balls out of your mouth and kill yourself

Could you, guys, please stop with this "lololo just throwed wawes of le ruski cattle into meatgrinder"? You dont win wars with this shit. Our population was just 2 times more than Germany and the most populated lands were lost in 1941. And stop adding 15 mln of dead civilians in military loses.

The point is the US could have PROBABLY won if they attacked the USSR right at the end of WWII but you would have suffered casualties in the millions and I doubt the US population was ready to accept that kind of cost.
Plus the fact that you would need heavy propaganda to justify going to war with a country that was just your biggest ally in a huge war.

>as a burger i have never heard of anything from Bulgaria other than reading about it in harry potter once.

>foreigners education unironically forgets to mention the gorillion studebaker trucks that we gave the soviets.
>foreigners unironically thinks they weren't necessary and that the soviets could've won all by themselves
>foreigners forgetting the time we went toe to toe with tojo

>foreigners not realizing they are just projecting their own nation's insecurities whenever they talk about murica as stupid, a bully, a coward, not that important, not that great, not that brave, not that free.

>mfw America is literally too good to be true for foreigners

Someday when you come to America, own your own guns, own your own land, and grill your own burgers, you'll look back and realize how silly you were.

Well it was completely true for the first half of the war, it took a long while until you got your shit together

The Germans did kill alot of slavs

>Autistic screeching
Time to relax now, Volen.

Assuming the Russians wouldn't have their full war machine in effect by that time probably

>WE WUZ BOLSHEVIKS AND SHIT.
shut the hell up peasant.

Most of our trained soldiers, officers, many tanks and plains were destroyed or captured in first monthes, so i wont argue with this. Its just burger version of hapenings on the Eastern Front is completely ridiculous.

fill your mouth with gunpowder and slam your head against the wall, mangal

The he T-34 tank. It has it all. Mobility. Armour. And firepower. The Russians pumped out so many these during the war they lost count. Anywhere from 60000-85000. In comparison Germany had about 8000 panther tanks.

Well since we're talking about hypothetical historical events that could've if maybe happened.

We would've won, period.

One of many reasons, but thanks to the eternal anglo we broke both kraut and soviet encrypted radio broadcasts.

We would know where every soviet attack, counter-attack, re-supply, etc... would be when and where.

>And stop adding 15 mln of dead civilians in military loses.
No one does, the actual number is 10 million soldiers, compared to 4.3 million Germans

>calling me a mangal
>Soviet shill
To the concentration camp you go!

Why do you count our asian and caucassian shitskins, but dont count european and soviet volunteers, hungarians, romaninas, italians and etc?

Forgot pic. This tank was incredible. Having 80k of them really helped.

Why would you listen to burgers talk about any historical event period

I've read WWII stuff like "Germany declared war on everyone, Russians and the allies did nothing but get slaughtered until the US came and saved the day when Japan declared war on them completely unprovoked" way too often for it to be funny anymore

You would have to justify sacrificing millions of lives to your population after ~5 years of pro soviet propaganda.
Especially considering that the US had a much more liberal system than USSR or Germany so it would not be just a case of "go fight or we'll shoot your family".
The Soviet army at the end of the war was also arguably stronger than at the beginning and help almost half of Europe and attacking would have caused massive civilian casualties as well.
If the US committed 100% it would have been a victory but it is extremely unlikely that the population and the political system would have allowed it to happen.

>EUSSR shill
>calling me a soviet shill

Daily reminder that only gypsies and homosexuals support the EU

Daily reminder that only turks and nu-males hate Russia

Daily reminder that pretending to be a Nazi like those Ukrainian retards does not make you one, especially when you serve the jewish plans.

most important issue is that russians also freeze in winter

>Fuel froze in gas tanks it was so cold in Russia.
>Russian Siberian Troops drove their tanks up and down the German lines

yes, Siberians have better fuel than germans.
And ofc, russians in ubermanshes , that why we have frost resist.

Pls stop this retarded meme.
almost whole western Russia is forest
and u you seat here with a serious face and tells the story about germans who can not cut down a tree, build a hut and make a fire in 20 century

>87 replies
>CTRL + F...FDR

>phrase not found

Gorillions of poor soldiers, shit weather.

>nukes were entirely unnecessary

Sure.

>japan was willing to surrender

>little boy dropped august 6, 1945
>soviets declare war august 8, 1945
>fatman dropped august 9, 1945

>jap military STILL wants to fight
>emperor demands they surrender
>military tries to kill the emperor to prevent surrender

But ya you're right, they were so scared of the soviets that they forgot they even got nuked until Nagasaki blew up and they suddenly snapped back to reality and remembered that the Soviet Union just declared war on them the day before. This caused the japanese to surrender and eternally hate America for tricking the world into thinking based nippon surrendered because of nukes and not because the soviets declared war on them.

I dont know. Because these people pretend to be redpilled, i guess.

well said Bulgaria

>most important issue is that russians also freeze in winter

Communist propaganda detected

If you play as a russian you get +5 frost resist

>while the US was relatively unscathed
Completely unscathed
Don't forget the 70+ Japanese cities burnt to a crisp by incendiary bombs