Gaschambers

Give me your best arguments for or against gaschambers at nazi concentration camps

Rules:
No source = no argument
Meme = not an argument
Try to keep it civil

Other urls found in this thread:

rationalwiki.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution
en.metapedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Germany_during_World_War_II
twitter.com/AnonBabble

>expecting arguments on Sup Forums

Thats what its for my nigga

For: Nazis needed a way to kill lots of Jews. Using German ingenuity they developed a way to streamline the process.
Against: The world isn't at war right now.

The US would have probably done something similar with the Japanese if faced with similar circumstances.

Let me refrase give me your best arguments for or against the existance of gaschambers at nazi concentration camps

For: Cheaper to do than using bullets
Against: What's the use of cremating jews when you can just use them for labor until they starve to death?

I'm conflicted as you can see

>cheaper then using bullets
So shipping jews from western europe to poland and then gassing them in camps is cheaper then lining them up in rows of 5 and shooting 5 at a time with one bullet?

>implying jews were gassed

It had nothing to do with cost, and everything to do with human nature. It's pretty damn hard to find people willing to execute convicted murderers, let alone to individually execute millions of people. People just can't do it, virtually no one is that inhumane (regardless of what the edgelords on here think)

Additionally, they had to keep the killings secret. If the German police just starred pulling people's friends and neighbors into the street and shot them, Hitler and his cronies would be hanging from a lamp post before dawn, even if the Germans tolerated it, the Poles wouldn't have. They would be fighting a revolution behind their front lines.

That being said, there were still plenty of open air shootings.

I wasnt implyimg anything just a question.

For: testimony from thousands of nazi officers and soldiers who worked in the camps or helped round up jews, and not of those soldiers denied it.

They weren't shipped to be gassed. They were shipped to the camp. Not all were gassed, most were used for labour, most starved and died of illnesses.

>not all where gassed
But muh six million

lol are you for real? so they could starve jews to death, put them in gas chambers, and then move their dead bodies to ovens, burn them and sprinkle their ashes in the rivers (in the millions supposedly) but couldn't put a bullet to their head? Despite putting bullets to the heads of 20M Russians?

Get aids

Actually a large number of jews were simply shot as soldiers invaded towns. Soon after the capture of a town, officers or even SS would show up and either order soldiers to round up the jews, or pay/make local defeated law enforcement or other people do it for them. A few in each town, town by town, and the numbers add up fast.

Maybe 50k were gassed i don't know but hundreds of thousands died in camps, and throughout the war probably a mill. Who knows. Nobody kept track, not even the germans, they wanted to remove their existence from the planet by cremating them and throwing the ashes in the rivera

For: Forensic Evidence

rationalwiki.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

>The Leuchter report found that significantly fewer cyanide traces were found in the gas chambers than in the delousing chambers, and concluded that this somehow proves that the gas chambers never contained HCN. This conclusion is based on incorrect assumptions about the concentrations of HCN needed to kill lice and to kill humans. In delousing clothes, concentrations of up to 16,000 ppm are sometimes used, and exposure time can be up to 72 hours; while 300 ppm will kill people in 15 minutes or so. Not only were the concentrations themselves higher, but the length of contact was much greater. Thus, the walls of the delousing facility should have a much greater concentration of detectable cyanide today, which is what the original Leuchter report and the Polish report both confirm.[78] The main problem with Leuchter's original report is a flaw in the major premise: that cyanide traces should be found in the homicidal gas chambers at a comparable rate as found in the delousing chambers. This is completely backward to reality, and it plays on a misunderstanding that people have about HCN. The average person would believe that it would take as much, if not more, HCN to kill a person than to kill a lice or flea. However, this is not the case. In fact, a much lower concentration of HCN is needed to kill any warm-blooded animal as opposed to cold-blooded. The team found significant HCN residue in delousing facility samples, while next to none in alleged "gas chamber" samples. If the gas chambers were used for something other than murder, no as in zero cyanide should have been found there. Not even the smallest trace amount. The fact that Leuchter did find trace amounts of cyanide in the gas chamber walls confirms, contrary to the Leuchter's report's conclusions, that they were, in fact, gas chambers.

Are you an idiot? Look at Mexican cartels, African countries. We are capable of executing massive amounts of people.

Sure but it's really easy to estimate. For example, Poland had 3.5 million jews before the war.. after the war almost none.

>Give me your best arguments for or against gaschambers at nazi concentration camps
I am in favor of them happening in the new Nazi camps we are making

Its not like they went to a diferent county *cough* Israel *cough*

>Be Hitler
>Have millions of Jews in camps.
What would you do?

>Look at Mexican cartels
Typically, they have more emotionally satisfactory reasons. Competitors, police, snitches, etc. It makes the act easier. The Nazis were just told to shoot every Jew. Murdering someone in cold blood for almost no reason is harder to do.

>African countries
A lot of these Guerilla fighters are pretty fucked in the head. They're way more sociopathic/psychopathic than the Nazis

They actually didn't. The UK and US turned away ships with Jewish refugees multiple times, which eventually ended up returning to Europe.

Yeah I have no doubt it's a big number.

>This conclusion is based on incorrect assumptions about the concentrations of HCN needed to kill lice and to kill humans. In delousing clothes, concentrations of up to 16,000 ppm are sometimes used, and exposure time can be up to 72 hours; while 300 ppm will kill people in 15 minutes or so.

Let me get this straight it takes more gas to kill insectst then to kill humans and it takes 15 minutes to kill people and 72 hours to kill lice. What the actual fuck.

The population of Israel today is 8M. This is 70 years after the war. This also includes Palestinians and other Arabs and Muslims, Christians and many other races.

There is no way you can argue the number isn't high because they fled to Israel.

Auschwitz certainly didn't use HCN in their claimed gas chamber. HCN is highly flammable and they had it positioned right next to the cremation ovens which would have been a massive fire hazard that certainly would have resulted in an explosion or flash fire at one point or another. They could have used CO gas from the cremation process which is also flammable but requires a much higher concentration in the atmosphere than it takes to kill humans but I've never seen this claimed, although it would be a very efficient solution and the Germans like those.

The reason was sold on to them. It wasn't like they were executing innocent people in their eyes.

Here are some actual quoted Reddit posts from a heavily upvoted thread:


>Homes are not airtight and people die from carbon monoxide poisoning, checkmate deniers.

Some guy replies with this

>The point is not that it doesn't kill because it's not airtight, but that it would leak and also kill the Nazi soldiers that are running the camp.

Then

>Carbon monoxide poisoning doesn't kill the people outside the home. Checkmate, deniers.

Even worse was this

>Plus the Nazis running the gas chambers probably had masks. Just in case.


I kid you not.

Well, depends obviously on the gas. Remember, any kind of insects and humans are two very different species. The doses of various substances or radiation needed to kill either a human or a bug vary greatly.

This doesn't sound like a difficult concept to grasp, or is it?

"for no reason"

Maybe learn about how Jews act tribally and had declared war on Germany. Learn about how Jewish Bolsheviks launched a civil war in Germany just before the rise of Hitler.

Wonder why Jews have been expelled from dozens of countries? Cause they "did nothing?" Run into an asshole, that's bad luck. Meet a few assholes, a bad day. But if you think everyone is an asshole wherever you go, then it's likely you who are the fucking ass.

Just seems really unlikly that lice. Which today we can get rid of with soap,take 72 hours to be gassed.

Forced testimonies are not evidence.

The official story is that 2000 people a day where gassed in auswitch alone

>Anti-Semitic babble
Tell me all about how you dindu nuffin and how the JOOS are behind everything

Why would you gas anyone in a labor camp?

Behind some gems at least.

This
>inb4 muh final solution
To date we have no proof for this order
>but it was a verbal order
Then how do you know it's legit

If they were about to starve to death, why gas them? It's cheaper and easier to just not feed them.

Explain that.

>(((goldstein)))

>No source = no argument
>Meme = not an argument

subjective
arbitrary
not an argument
bait

>To date we have no proof of this order

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution

>Follow-up letter from SS-Obergruppenführer Reinhard Heydrich to Ministerialdirektor Martin Luther asking for administrative assistance in the implementation of the Final Solution to the Jewish Question, 26 February 1942

Swing and a miss user

Does it refer to mass deportations to Palestine or mass starvation-followed-by-gassing-and-cremation?

Why is the Holocaust a post-war narrative from behind the iron curtain?

The US government burns unclaimed bodies in war zones for sanitary reasons. Germans were starving en mass during the war.

So, most of the scenes of concentration camps can be explained as the regular business of war. Perhaps it just terrifies people so much because it's Europeans and it was filmed/photographed.

Millions of civilians have died in Iraq, Afghanistan, North Africa, and Vietnam, from bombs, starvation, disease, and in prison camps. This happens in EVERY war.

Everyone knows it wasn't 6 million Jews, even the "official" story is now 4 million. It was likely even lower. The nazis and soviets both exterminated millions, but so did the US. Nazis really got jiggy with it when they retreated from Eastern Europe when any potential threat was liquidated.

The biggest myth about the holocaust isnt the real number, it's that Jews were noncombatants. They were very active in the communist party, in the Soviet Union, in political battles against the Germans leading up to the war. They weren't innocent victims. They were active players in both world wars.

7 million Germans died in the war. Maybe half as many Jews.

Literally not a single word about killing or doing harm to Jewish people in the letter.

>"proof"

Do you have another direct source which equates the final solution to the systematic eradication of the Jewish people, the entire Jewish race? Because that is what the holocaust is defined as.

From only this document the "final solution" could mean anything, the havara agreement more likely.

Excuse me?

>Starvation
>Illnesses
>Diseases
There were many reasons. They never taught you in school?

Isn't what you're doing illegal user?

Read pic related for your proof

Why not just let them starve? Cheaper and less dangerous, especially since the industrial-scale gas chamber had a wooden door with a glass window that opened inwards.

He has a point. Jews were not considered subhuman filth by all of their countries. The were mechants, lawers, doctors, neighbors, and part of the community in most cases. They just starting killing these people in puplic by the thousands it would lead to civil unrest amongst the people. The nazi's largely had high public appeal and didn't want to fuck that up.

I'll just leave this here

Bodies laying around cause disease. Wtf is it with you people. Throwing them in a separate room dedicated to kill people with the use of almost free gas and then throwing them in an oven powered by free fire is objectively a better thing than letting them scream in agony in the middle of the street in the thousands.

That still does not prove the will to systematically erradicate the Jewish people by direct order of Hitler or Heydrich, not even Himmler.

Even if this document is legit, it just proofs that the units killed "gang suspects" and Jews executed in total are 363k

With that and the Posen speach you got some indications for anti-partisan activity at the Eastern front, sometimes based on ethnicity.

But not a proof for the holocaust.


And it's not illegal, because I am not denying it, but asking questions.

>middle of the street
The streets of Auschwitz?

>bodies laying around
Better gas them.

>The streets of Auschwitz?
Nigger in the hallways of Auschwitz or in the rooms of Auschwitz or in the workcamps of Auschwitz.

This discussion is diminishing the stature of this thread.

kek, if this is the best deniers have, it's no surprise, you are not taken seriously.

that is a german document detailing the deaths of FORMER inhabitants of German concentration camps in the time detailed above.

Those are not the real numbers of the Jews killed or whatever you tried to imply.

>You'll never install a run of ridgid through an extermination chamber

Why even live?

>those are not the real numbers of the Jews killed

You're right, I doubt Hitler had over 300k Jews killed off. Why kill them when he can use them for labor instead?

We can do it, for old-timey sake.

>gassing people with hydrogen cyanide gas in a gas chamber that isn't airtight and you are standing outside to operate the gas controls

what

>Gasmasks were as rare as faberge eggs

Just youtube David Irving on youtube. Based historian. If anybody can give you any good arguments, its this guy.

>That still does not prove the will to systematically erradicate the Jewish people by direct order of Hitler or Heydrich, not even Himmler.

The document is marked "shown to the Fuhrer" and it is from Himmler. And do you actually believe that 363k Jews were involved in gang activity oh and how come no other ethnicity/religion was mentioned?

Are you really this dense?

But why risk that? It's comically surreal desu.
>Oy vey, no we can't just shoot them and burry them in a mass grave!
(As they probably did with the anti-partisan Einsatzgruppen at the Eastern front which seems to be the best documented case of targeting Jews)
>Let's just use this insanely complicated, autistic method of killing them instead!

>gas masks are enough to protect you against repeated long-term exposure to hydrogen cyanide gas

you should test this hypothesis, I would ask you to report back with your findings but I'll just watch the newspapers instead

Kek

it's for memes and bait

DAILY REMINDER that Leutcher is a hack fraud

all of his arguments have been disproved on nizkor.org

spend a few hours there

How much of an oven would it take to process 6,000,000 Jews into a pile of ashes if one had just one central death camp instead of many smaller ones? Like, just one huge oven with conveyor belts to feel in dead Jews and fuel for full-time operation around the clock?

I am not dense at all. You simply did not provide proof. Circumstancial, isolated evidence at best. For the case I described.

That's the argument against it, though.

You herd them in, release the gas, wait for them to die, somehow dissipate the gas...

It seems so cumbersome compared to shooting.

They may have tried it as a test, but I doubt significant numbers of people died this way. Germans would have come up with something like pic related.

en.metapedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Germany_during_World_War_II
The sheer majority of bodies found in concentration camps were killed by starvation, hypothermia, and typhus; german and jew alike. Major battles into concentration camps did not exist because everybody in them had either already died or fled to find food, warmth, or medicine. The reason behind this massive resource shortage was due to allied bombing of railroads and supply routes into these camps in an effort to starve out the germans.
tl;dr the allies caused the deaths of the interns
and also not nearly close to 6 million died.

>Lets shoot 3,5M Jews in Poland!
>Yes Fuhrer, what a splendid way to kill 3,5M people.

Nigger it would literally take a year of doing it 8 hours a day. It'd cost time, energy.

Instead, you put thousands on a train at a time, take them to a camp, use their labour, once they are used up and starved, gas and cremate.

It was a more effective way. And that is what the Germans were known for. Not for being invaded by roaches who would use 3,5M bullets to put in the temples of 3,5M jews and use excavators to dig holes enough to fill fucking 3,5M people.

All this because using a gasmask would be impossible

Literally your iq has lowered a lot since 1945 Germany.

The allies researched every single camp they had access to, which didn't include those controlled by the Soviets.
The allies found every single camp to have been a work camp where there was no sign of any genocide, or anything resembling it.
The Soviets, strongly anti-Hitler and in full Stalinist propagandic swing said that all camps under their control was a slaughterhouse, but the allies could never confirm this and literally had to take their word for it.

>Same person operating the same stick for 16h day 7 days a week

Are you retarded

They were expelled for the following reasons

1. All major religions prohibited usury, leaving Jews to run banks
2.Rulers would borrow from banking Jews
3.Kick the Jews out so you don't have to pay them back

>central ovening
Commies get out REEEEE

>Metapedia
Wow, what a fair and balanced source

rationalwiki.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

Read this if you have further questions

And we all know it's happening.
The holocaust was never heard of until the camps spontaneously showed up.

Considering the mental shock each executioner must have gotten, it's really weird that not one German POW or foreign spy ratted them out.
Meanwhile we never catch the cartels, but we always hear the stories.

For: it's effective
Against: it creates a shortage of gas for cleaning (its original purpose)

>The allies found every single camp to have been a work camp where there was no sign of any genocide,

>making shit up

This is at Bergen-Belsen, a camp liberated by the British

why so many death camps? Why all the hassle?

No you don't get it. It's a document counting the people who survived it and died later until 1983.

Your strawmanning and ad hominems are pathetic. You already lost the argument when you start this way.

Executions with a single bullet, directly over a mass grave, are cost efficient, fast and easy to organize.

And if Germans really were this efficient and the extermination of the Jewish people had been the goal, order by Hitler and Nazi command, they would not have survived.

>all of the testimonials were forced
>every single one ever

And yet no Nazis, even the ones caught decades afterwards, used "the Holocaust never happened" as a defense. How very odd.

Doors opened to the outside. Made of wood and had windows. Not a gas chamber to kill people.

Nazis developed a fucking tanl on rails that was 4 stories high and the v2 rocket. Give me a break.

So gaschambers dont need air thight doors. Okay senpai

A work camp that suffered from typhoid disease, which was rampaging throughout Europe at the time.

Read this.
Spoiler: there were no gas chambers used for mass murder.

>"Death camps"
Work camps.

Less hassle than uselessly just executing them and spending time getting rid of their bodies.

Average german back then was smarter than the people of today. It's so sad.

I thought Auschwitz gas chambers were destroyed by the SS, so where the fuck does the Prussian blue come from? Hmm I can hear hand rubbings in the distance.....

Right.
>let's just resort back to my wikipedia source when I run out of arguments

>it's really weird that not one German POW or foreign spy ratted them out.

Jan Karski did just that, so your point is wrong.

What is actually funny is how NOT ONE SINGLE nazi denied the holocaust while on trial, not one of them denied it, they all gave the famous "just following orders" excuse

Are those all Jews? How did they really die? Where are the other 6,000,000? Could it be the Jews were safer in the camps during the war than Germans living in cities such as Dresden or Hamburg which were firebomed by the allies to inflict maximum casualties upon the German population?

>metapedia is biased
>but rationalwiki isn't

>Executions with a single bullet, directly over a mass grave, are cost efficient, fast and easy to organize.

Holy fuck do you know how much of a process this would be to do with a train of 100,000 Jews coming straight from Poland would be though?

1) You NEED a camp of sorts
2) Some WILL starve while you are killing the others, heck even the soldiers need a fucking break to eat and shit or something
3) You're at this point and you don't use gas?

Keep revising history though and call me an ad hominem. I'm only speaking the truth. Your arguments are so god damn dumb your ideas are never going to go mainstream and for very good reason.

You will not even fool your average kindergarten student with this nonsense. They will instantly ask you questions you don't ask yourself. So god damn dumb.

It's a mass grave. Than could have been put up for the victims of starvation and disease. Do you have direct evidence that the people shown in this image are victims of mass murder based on being Jewish?