At what point do we implement a universal basic income? >inb4 we don't We have to. You realize that once >50% of people are unemployable, due to being replaced by automatic tellers, cars, registers, etc, that you're going to have an epidemic on your hands, right? People need food and housing, and if they can't afford it, what do they do? They turn to crime. And you realize that, in America, most of these people are HEAVILY armed, meaning that they will be able to loot and steal everything from you just to get by.
150 million people are not going to sit by and die as they are replaced by robots, which can do their jobs cheaper, faster, and with less error, that require no transportation, don't need sleep, don't need food, and don't need entertainment. Robots are objectively superior for businesses, and they will always choose robots over more expensive, inefficient humans.
It's not a question of if, but when. When do we implement a Universal Basic Income?
I hear you friendo. If history is a predictor of future outcome, well, we're screwed. 1st world governments should have been planning for this for the last 20 years.
Levi Brooks
I mean, just look at the top employers in the United States. How many of these people can be replaced by robots right now?
>Wal-Mart -2,000,000 jobs >McDonald's -300,000 jobs >Kroger -350,000 jobs >(General Transportation) -3,500,000 jobs >(General salesmen) -2,500,000 jobs
And no, new jobs won't fix it. There aren't any new jobs being created. Keynesian Economics has come to an end in its applicability.
Isaiah Robinson
The fact that you are bringing up a problem with a solution already in mind as "the only rational choice" means you are either a shill or a fuckin moron.
William Jackson
Jack in the box is being cheeky as fuck
William Phillips
>Thinking Automation is anywhere near ready We're 3 generations out at the earliest.
But to indulge you
Who pays the basic income?
Jace Howard
20 years ago robots weren't as much of a menace. It's a combination of minimum wage increase, NAFTA, and advances in robotics that have caused this dilemma.
15 years ago, we didn't have automatic cars. 10 years ago, we didn't have the ability to replace everyone working at a grocer besides the managers and stockers. Even 5 years ago, we didn't have a machine capable of producing every single item on the McDonald's menu with near perfect accuracy.
There's no way politicians of the past could've seen this coming so quickly. Bill Clinton was an idiot, and even if he were smart, there's nothing he could've done.
Robert Ortiz
the fact that the first world is being invaded by Africans and Muslims is a far greater concern than hypothetical technological innovations.
And I'm kind of the suspicious of the people who push the automation meme: all of them are leftists, almost. It is already being used as a smokescreen against criticism of immigration.
Isaac Cox
>Automatic truck made a successful delivery across Australia >Automatic cars are being produced by at least 6 different companies >Said automatic cars have driven thousands of miles across America without incident >Said automatic cars are 5 years out at most >Sales kiosks are already being implemented in Seattle, where they raised the minimum wage to $15, killing off >200,000 jobs
By the end of Trump's 8 years, automation will already be a reality.
Kayden Nguyen
Answer the question.
Who pays the universal basic income?
Justin Ramirez
First thing we need is to close all borders and let the population thin out. The hordes of non-Europeans being imported to provide the labour we no longer need is insane.
Jason Williams
I'm a Hobbesian conservative. Just look at this realistically. Immigration is used to drive down wages. That has already happened. Millions of jobs disappeared thanks to the financial crisis. And now there's a new force to compete with, which can work for pennies on the dollar. It can outcompete Vietnamese sweat shop laborers.
I'm not advocating for a welfare state with open borders. We need to shut down our borders so that we can control the economy. There's no other real solution. If we ignore this, there's a huge brick wall with "armed insurrection" written on it that we're hurtling right towards.
Christian Garcia
No real argument with you. That's the problem with 20/20 hindsight.
Here's something for thought, the rate of acceleration of advancement will catch everyone off guard, it's now a race to the bottom I'm afraid.
They're not being imported to provide labor. They're being imported for "humanitarian" reasons.
At least, I hope the Eurocrats and Trudeau are aware of the impending danger of importing unskilled laborers in the midst of the automation revolution. I know they can't see past the kike nose in front of them, but I'm at least faithful in their economic advisers.
Luke Lewis
Business and religious libertarians bring them in for cheap labour. Useful idiot leftists support bringing them in because muh feels. The bureaucrats have to be aware of whats coming if all of the common people see it. They are probably excited to see an enslaved lower class they can farm to keep power in a "democratic" society.
Tyler Moore
Agreed. But we need to do something, and fast. Being technologically literate means that you're constantly aware of all the advances in AI, robotics, and mechanics that tech companies are throwing money at.
And some people argue that automatic cars won't be the norm due to being too expensive, yet they fail to realize that total cost of producing the software/hardware that set Autos apart from regular cars is like $500. You just have to not buy the new iPhone, or give up your Starbucks slush fund, and you could have your automatic car.
Transportation is the biggest job sector. That's already in its death throes.
Dominic Harris
Honestly importation of inferior shitskins is made far worse by the prospect of mass automation of labor. In reality we should be avoiding taking on anymore dead weight as we transition into an automated high unemployment economy. The exacerbation of the inevitable social conflict this will cause is reason enough to stop immigration now.
This shit is terrifying. What purpose do humans have if robots can think and act for us?
Jonathan Clark
It would presumably be paid out of the tax base. The question then becomes how do you get corps who would have to be paying most of the taxes due to reductions in the middle class to stay in country.
Christian Brooks
If we move to Universal Basic Income, who is paying the populace? Is it the Federal government? Where are they getting the money from? Is it heavy taxation on the businesses that have automated? Their money is now out of the country like it is now, and their using every single loophole to pay the least amount of taxes as possible.
So I ask you again. Who is footing the bill?
Aaron Kelly
Totally agree.
Instead of poorly trying to explain in my own words, I'll refer to the video I've shared with others many times over.
I could see that being the case. But it won't work in America, because we're all armed to the teeth. The lower class cannot be enslaved, because the lower class makes up the military. The military would totally overthrow the Government before it enslaved its mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters. Germany and Canada could go quietly, but not America.
Ethan Turner
This indeed is the problem. It's going to be a tough one to fix and would probably involve some serious gov't strong arming. Unless you have a better solution
William Phillips
Whoops, there's that tariff that Trump is implementing. I'm sure businesses would love paying 35% tax on everything they sell to the American populace, the biggest market in the world by a factor of $10 trillion, more money than every single former colony of the British Empire, and the UK itself, combined.
Tariffs can be raised if 35% isn't enough.
Andrew Johnson
Outer space colonies now please. Literally the only way to fix this over population (that's the issues, too many people and too few jobs) is to spread across space. It's that are we perish into this eternal poverty dystopic ruin of civilization.
SPACE EXPLORATION IS NO LONGER A MEME.
Landon Miller
CGP is right, but his bit about creative jobs disappearing is at least 50 years off. Human creativity will be really hard to trump, since only humans know what other humans like.
Well, that is until AI evolves far enough. Then, the only jobs that'd be safe are bureaucratic jobs.
Connor Jenkins
Those who lack the willpower to make themselves more useful than the machines should be left to die; their remains churned into fertilizer to help feed those whose skills will enable mankind to actually achieve greatness.
The world is overpopulated enough as-is. It's about time we trimmed down the numbers, especially as automation continues to improve.
Hudson Carter
I'm not sure how much resource wealth there is in nearby space but regardless we are a long ways away from extracting and transporting it anywhere near cost effectively.
Josiah Davis
Will the robot 'gods' love and care for us, or have disregard for us?
That's what keeps you awake late at night.
Camden Gutierrez
Have you read Brave New World? It will be a willing enslavement the plebs will be given their bread and circus too keep them placated. Testosterone levels are plummeting and we know the browns will have no ambition to revolt for self determination, they will gladly embrace total welfare.
Xavier Flores
This is an option I suppose but you are talking about killing off the majority of earths population at around 50 years from now here.
Asher Sullivan
That's one of the solutions, other than UBI, but it's too far off. We don't have any feasible transportation for our massive population.
We've got 3 options for the future - genocide (of all of the poor people), sudden breakthrough in technology that allows us to explore the universe, or a universal basic income.
And astrophysicists are working with a deadline of 5 - 10 years.
Jace Cruz
I would say we have a bit longer than 5-10 years. I would give it 30 at least. Things might get a bit more uncomfortable in the meantime but I don't think we are looking at catastrophic social collapse that quickly
Easton Diaz
Unfortunately, it wont' matter. 'Creative' jobs don't appreciably contribute to any economy. They're already a niche.
Michael Ortiz
What happens to luxury and specialty items after UBI? Presumable rich people don't exist anymore so these things will no longer exist.
Joseph James
From basic logic, If automation is more productive then humans, automation should generate extra money to support the unemployment it generate.
what fuck the math is the greedy jews that flee with money and don't make it circulate.
in the 1970 they said automation will free humans from work wich would be the coolest thing appening to people.
Now they call it unemployment and tell us it's bad.
Fuck this. greedy jews are bad, not production improvement via automation.
Eli Garcia
Rich people will always exist. Universal basic income schemes aren't socialism. It doesn't imply that capitalists can't make extra money from useful skills.
Leo Brooks
>Automatic truck made a successful delivery across Australia >Automatic cars are being produced by at least 6 different companies
These two I'm lumping together because they're addressed by the same point. Scale. Do you know how many cars are on the road in the world today? Think about it, millions. It's taken about 100 years to get to that point and this is after the advent of large scale assembly line manufacturing. We're a while out before we can feasibly begin to replace all of that. That's even barring the next point.
>Said automatic cars have driven thousands of miles across America without incident >Said automatic cars are 5 years out at most
These cars have driven highway miles. That is easy, but once you enter the territory of shitty not-highway/interstate roads, you have a MASSIVE host of variables that need to begin being accounted for. Software is catching up and we're attempting to accelerate this process with machine learning, but it's still in it's infancy. Again, it's a matter of scale. You've got a HUGE amount of variables in play here.
Also, since these are machines that will effectively hold people's lives within them, Government Safety Regulations are going to ensure that it's implemented as SLOWLY as possible to work out the bugs on the smallest scale possible, to avoid any major incidents.
>Sales kiosks are already being implemented in Seattle, where they raised the minimum wage to $15, killing off >200,000 jobs
Things like this ARE the beginning, though. I believe Fast Food is going to be next (Manufacturing has already sort of gone through this) in the shift towards massive gains in automation. In fact, to be honest, it's happening now. The people clamoring for $15 bucks an hour, as you've stated, have only accelerated this. Even if you don''t live in an area like this, Seattle is basically beta testing for the states. Once they perfect it, it's over for the nation in terms of low-wage fast food jobs.
Ryder Lee
The world is overpopulated in Asia (and soon Africa). Europe's population would thin out if the bureaucrats and Merchants weren't so hell bend on having a tax farm that they import replacement populations from the third world.
Greedy Merchants have been kicked out of hundreds of countries. The wave is coming again to kick them out.
Lincoln Walker
So I've recently begun writing scripts in selenium for web companies to completely automate tasks thus making Q/A pretty non-exsistant.
I feel like an asshole but I'm getting paid I guess.
Isaiah Anderson
That's our inevitable future anyways, unless we unlock the secrets of space travel. I'd rather a Brave New World than a 1984, or a We, or a Fahrenheit 451.
The difference being that Americans, especially our White males, are largely angry and well armed. Nearly 70% of us voted for Trump. That's 71,000,000, roughly, White men.
To put that into perspective, there are more Republican/Independent White men than the entire population of the UK, France, Italy, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Finland, and Spain. For reference, the military only employs 2.1 million people, most of whom support the working class.
Gavin Young
we could live off the land.
Isaac Robinson
It's the only way to avoid depleting Earth's natural resources until we can master space travel and terraforming.
The moralfags can protest all they want, but a realistic approach is the only one that will save humanity in the long term.
Nathan Campbell
what does ubi have to do with rich not existing?
Kayden Wood
30 years for total collapse, but before that, we're going to be really strained. Housing and food prices are rapidly outstripping wages, and, soon, jobs. We're going to hit EMPLOYMENT rates of 30% in the next 15 years.
Carter Long
>Hurr genocide all the poor people. You realize that poor people outnumber the wealthy 100 - 1, right?
And you do realize that the American poor have around 190,000,000 firearms, right?
You think the poor are going to lie down and die? I don't bloody think so.
James Sullivan
Yeah, but they'll be the only thing we need to spend money on in the future, so they'll be the only real market left.
Jack Davis
I don't disagree.
It's just that, in your scenario, America would need to strongarm every country with loose tax regulations.
Evan Foster
I think this is an example of what many will relate to as additional income over the UBI. I would agree, many are now (and will be) willing to attribute value to the unique. Start practicing your unique talent(s), you may need them.
Hudson Wilson
poor people rich person with 100 (((killer robots)))
My money is on the robots.
Elijah Hall
Automation is the supreme productivity level. if ticle down economics was not broken, every nigger would be rich.
But the rich hide their money it instead of making it spin.
but OP is hur hur hur automation is scary derp derp.
OP look like someone shouting GAY at a normie while he is getting butt fucked by a jew.
Nathaniel Bennett
UBI simply allows for capitalism to go on. You get all you need for basic housing, food, entertainment, transportation, and healthcare, and if you want nicer stuff, you can learn a skill and work for it.
I don't want to see a socialist society, so UBI is the only real solution to this problem, barring a technological breakthrough that we cannot predict.
Liam Wood
UBI is for capitalism. what cocain is for prostitutes.
Blake Bailey
>Killer robots Those aren't so good right now. I'd place my money on the poor army with trained veterans, M16s, and EMPs.
Drones could certainly help, but drones cannot stop a guerrilla insurgency. This is our land, we know it like the back of our hands, and we can assemble at a moment's notice. No matter where the rich live in this country, they can always be raided by a civilian army.
Liam Miller
OK, so we're having a good conversation and I do appreciate that (especially here in this Peruvian woodworking forum). Just between you and I, do you honestly imagine that there is not already a solution technologically to all issue we experience now? I'm talking now about things we're not supposed to have or know about..
>inb4 /x/
Michael Brown
>Implying the rich are going to remain where the poor can get at them.
Michael Hernandez
maybe this is why we build the simulation.
Christopher Davis
There is only one real solution
Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism
Joseph Baker
> why do you fucking retards not understand that shit just can't happen because you think it should. There are more factors that go into society then Jamal had his 5 child and needs a raise.
Were that technology to exist, you'd think the Governments with access to it would employ it fully to their benefits. Governments do not work on good will.
Besides, the biggest innovators are working for Google, Amazon, SpaceX, etc. Businesses pay billions to streamline their overhead costs. All of the best technology is funded by business. Because you have to pay minimum wage workers $15k a year, and you have to pay robots $1k a year, the cost of funding research to replace them pays itself off in mere years, as opposed to decades.
Connor Wilson
>>right now Implying that matters. When it is time, and it will be time soon, the Earth will be depopulated in a single day. There won't be enough time for your redneck army to even form.
Nathaniel Gonzalez
F U L L Y A U T O M A T E D L U X U R Y G A Y S P A C E C O M M U N I S M
Hudson Scott
>The rich are going to leave behind their pedo sex rings, yachts, private jets, mansions, and hundred year old wine to live in a space colony
Aiden Collins
People like working and contributing. We're also jealous fucks who want to be on top.
Give a man $10,000 and say that his neighbors all get the same, and he'll be less happy than if he gets $5,000 and his neighbors get only $1,000. He's better off with 10, but that matters less than how he is relative to others.
A society made up of throngs of useless people who exist to be given money so that they can buy stuff isn't going to work.
Parker Harris
Low quality bait. If you want to be taken seriously, maybe you should learn how to use images properly on an image board.
Julian Cruz
There'll still be gainful employment with a UBI. There'll always be bureaucratic jobs, creative jobs, trade jobs, scientists, prostitutes (because sex robots cannot replace human warmth), and celebrities. It's just that 90% of jobs will be eliminated.
Tell me, though, what would your solution be? Ban automation?
Jayden Lopez
In a way, that's what I was trying to communicate. People don't often take time to think about what they would do 'for a living' if they didn't have to get paid. Or, as some would say, follow your passion. This IS what would happen under UBI.
Gabriel Morris
'member when the Aztecs who outnumbered the Spaniards 10,000:1 still got genocided? How is that possible? (((TECHNOLOGY)))
Technology >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Population advantage
You dun gonna die.
Brayden Sullivan
Oh, and there'll always be video games. Now that upwards mobility is essentially dead, many young men have replaced getting a better lot in life with getting good at video games.
Oliver Rivera
What's considered a luxury now and what will be considered a luxury in the future will be two completely different things as our available resources become depleted.
The rich can enjoy all that shit while they can, but sooner or later reality is going to kick in and they'll realize a drastic change will be in order.
Caleb Cooper
user technology has always displaced workers. People adapt and learn needed skills.
What do you think happened to the hoer when the plow was invented? He learned carpentry. What happened to the coachman when the car came around? He became something else. This will happen to burger flippers, too.
Caleb Nguyen
People would still clean the toilet for extra bucks. UBI would not solve human greed.
The only things is that employers would have to give decent pay to people cuz on one will be obligated to accept unpaid shitty job
Landon Torres
Once automation is sufficiently widespread, required labour should drop and things should become profitable enough that we should be able to have people working small amounts for high income. However, greed means that'd never happen.
What we'll see is economic collapse as business attempts to avoid giving jobs to more and more people, and yet still tries to flog their crap to more and more people - who now have almost no disposable income to spend on their crap.
UBI is nothing more than life support for the carcass of "capitalism".
With sufficient labour regulation and minimum wage laws it's unnecessary.
Samuel Harris
It wasn't technology, it was disease. Influenza and Small Pox had already destabilized the Aztec empire years before the Spanish arrived. That caused small Nahuatl city states to revolt, whom the Spanish used to incite insurrection, which led to them capturing Moctezuma.
I'm a history major. Don't act like I'm just some retarded futurist who doesn't know human history. We use it as a case study on how to pave our way forward.
Colton Johnson
The rich are NEVER going to give up their child sex rings, man.
Nice digits, though.
Nathan Price
Will it though. It seems to me that this trend can't possibly hold forever given constant growth in both technology and population.
Mason Martin
Didn't feel like it, tired of these 15 and hour min wagers being fucking retarded.
happy?
Christopher Ramirez
this, rich don't get rich alone they need poor to exploit
Anthony Perry
This. I don't think people here, especially the anti-UBI crowd, realize that without a hedonistic consumer base, these companies have no one to peddle their goods to.
They need an underclass to sell to. The rich do not buy McDonalds or Kroger goods. Except for Trump.
Logan Phillips
thank god i cant wait to not have to deal with nig fast food workers anymore
William Gonzalez
>>history major
Gross. I don't want to talk to you anymore.
Signed le STEM master race
Cooper Cooper
Ban automation. It is the only way to save humanity.
Liam Brown
I'm a history teacher making $42k a year with insane vacation times and good job security. I can afford to spend $3k a year on luxury goods.
My job is far more secure than yours, unless you're actually a researcher.
Jaxon Jones
ban the jew-bankers it's the only way to save humanity.
Aaron Bailey
> Kek, I made more fresh out of college.
Wyatt Gonzalez
What's a clean public toilet worth to you, and how much would you need to be paid to clean one? I'd argue that an automated toilet cleaning function would ultimately be cheaper.
OK. The only things that the average Joe/Jane will do if a decent (on the average) standard of living UBI is instituted, are the things they enjoy, feel passionate about, and can themselves merit a reasonable return on investment/effort, i.e. profit.
I think the toilet cleaning is a bit of a straw man argument given the current level of technology we already are capable of achieving.
Jack Evans
One thing I don't understand about the faux-economist luddites is their insistence on wanting to deal with minorities whenever they want to go get food or they need to buy a new frying pan.
Like seriously? You'd never have to deal with Blacks, or Beans, or the French. Is that not a serious plus?
Or are they seriously part of the "racism is bad :((((" crowd?
Owen Russell
>At what point do we implement a universal basic income? we don't >We have to. You realize that once >50% of people are unemployable, due to being replaced by automatic tellers, cars, registers, etc, that you're going to have an epidemic on your hands, right? People need food and housing, and if they can't afford it, what do they do? They turn to crime. And you realize that, in America, most of these people are HEAVILY armed, meaning that they will be able to loot and steal everything from you just to get by. Cool story bro.
>It's not a question of if, but when. When do we implement a Universal Basic Income? we don't.
Oliver Miller
yeah well I had to pick an example, replace with any underpaid immigrant job.
Kayden Nguyen
What we do is take the poor people, divide them into opposing groups, arm those groups, then the issues will resolve themselves roight roight?
Blake Watson
Is that considered a high wageslave salary these days?
Noah Harris
These "automation" fags are worse than end-of-the-world preppers from 8 years ago.
Man transitioned from agrarian to industrial eras.
We will transition to whatever is next.
Don't feel bad for people who sit around moaning instead of working to improve their lives.
Kevin Sanders
Yes, but why do I need more? I don't want all of the latest useless tech, I live in a nice White neighborhood, I have job security, I can afford everything I'd ever need.
What should I work towards now? The next tier of luxury goods costs many millions of dollars. Even if I did get a STEM degree, I wouldn't be able to afford a yacht.
I guess I could do with a vacation to Aruba or something.
Lincoln Kelly
OMG you are a middle-east historian !
Nathan Thomas
there are only two possible outcomes for robots taking over labor
option 1: >everything becomes free >everyone can live life in comfort and suffering and poverty is eliminated >self sufficient robot workers eliminate labor costs >robots mine iron ore for free >iron ore becomes extremely cheap to produce, eventually free
option 2: >the rich no longer have to pay the poor to do menial tasks anymore and hord all the fruits of labor or robots to themselves >the rich become richer >everyone else becomes extremely poor and only do jobs that are too likely to damage robots or do jobs for such extremely low wages that they're more cost effective than building robots for the task >the poor live in squalor while the rich hoard everything to themselves and live in extreme indulgence and luxury
there's no other outcome
Logan Collins
I am very tempted to agree with you, but this time, technology won't just replace a branch or two. This time, it will be the greatest upheavel ever.
Logistics - Automatic cars. You know they'll do this, and if they have to use special auto-truck-only lanes for them. Logistics - Handymen bots. This one, will still take a decade at the very least, but by then we can expect the first "restocking" robots. Any warehouse or shop setting, which does not involve heavy labour, can be handled by them.
Service - Fastfood & Co. There are modules in planning, which will make humans pretty much superfluous - be it starbucks, mcdonalds, or others, they are rather keen on that tech.
Just take a look how many people work in just those fields, and imagine them unemployed. Unskilled labour, will get ever more of a hit, and it will come quicker than we think.
Oliver Smith
This.
This thread is really tiresome. Reading posts from people who don't even grasp basic economics or math...
Kayden Reed
>i'm a teacher >online class is wildly popular and successful >job security
my sides
Ian Cook
Hey, I dread an 'Elysium' type dystopian future as much as you probably. That's what makes the automation capabilities we're able to have even now so scary. See my post on the CGP Grey video.
